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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Best class for a tank?

    OK, OK, I know... CoDZilla, Obviously.

    But, besides the Cleric, what's the best pure tank?
    Do Knights actually tank better than Paladins?
    Where does a pure Fighter rank?

    opinions?

    Edit for clarity: (NO multiclass. single class tanks only.)

    (maybe list PrCs separately?)
    Last edited by jonnyjmboy; 2007-04-05 at 04:53 PM.
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    Khantalas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Druid?

    Isn't the Druid a class of "anything you can do, I can do better"?

    Or was it the Wizard?

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Dwarven Knight/Warblade/Dwarven Defender/Deepstone Sentinel.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    It depends on the level. At very low level Barb is great as it can rage and throw out some nice damage. however once druid gets wild shape it becomes the better option. and of course there is the cleric.
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    OK, sorry, didn't specify...

    or maybe I did. at any rate, what I'm actually looking for here
    is the best PURE tank.

    (so, no multi-classing)

    sorry
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    Amiria's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    The best pure tank is a Crusader. Amazing durability with the Delayed Damage Pool, Die Hard, and Mettle. Good saving throws if you have a decent Charisma.

    Maybe also take the Endurance and Steadfast Determination feats. They are both useful and fit the tank role thematically.

    There are Devoted Spirit maneuvers with which he can heal himself and others. Afaik he is the only full BAB class that can do such a thing.
    Last edited by Amiria; 2007-04-05 at 05:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    I still say go for Knight. The difficult terrain class feature, the unbeatable AC/HP mix, and all of the 'debuffing' things you can do with the Knight's Challenge make them very tough nuts to crack.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Yes, go Knight. Give him a Greatspear. Defender(?) ability gives any area you threaten count as rough terrain, so you are the ultimate slower. Because you threaten in a 15' spread. Rather nice.
    Last edited by Ranis; 2007-04-05 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranis View Post
    Yes, go Knight. Give him a Greatspear. Defender(?) ability gives any area you threaten count as rough terrain, so you are the ultimate slower. Because you threaten in a 15' spread. Rather nice.
    Get the Enlarge Weapon spell from Complete Scoundrel (?) to threaten 20'!

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    Black Hand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    ...And here I thought just the basic Fighter/Barbarian mix with several well chosen feats would've made a good tank.

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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    I would agree with Black Hand. Fighters and Barbarians seem to get overlooked.

    And I don't think you threaten the squares right next to you wielding a spear.
    Last edited by Maxwell; 2007-04-05 at 05:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
    I would agree with Black Hand. Fighters and Barbarians seem to get overlooked.

    And I don't think you threaten the squares right next to you wielding a spear.
    One feat: Short Haft. Now you do.

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    Jack Mann's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Well, that's the problem with fighters and barbarians. After a while, they just aren't very good tanks anymore.
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    Amiria's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
    I would agree with Black Hand. Fighters and Barbarians seem to get overlooked.
    Fighters and barbarians are outdated. The Knight has great HD, great AC and some nifty abilities - but a bad Fort save.

    I stick with the Crusader, a tank that can take care of its own fuel (hp). Full of ToB niftyness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
    And I don't think you threaten the squares right next to you wielding a spear.
    Right, but with feats like Improved Trip and Stand Still noone will get into this blind zone. And if it happens take a 5 ft. step back.
    Last edited by Amiria; 2007-04-05 at 06:13 PM.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    I agree with the Crusader. Healing while you deal out damage is the way to go.
    A silent knight is better than a holey knight.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by silentknight View Post
    I agree with the Crusader. Healing while you deal out damage is the way to go.
    Hmm, that was the idea behind my Dawnblade class, except they do it with magic. If you don't mind homebrewed classes you can try it I won't mind :P

    That class was always one of my favorite homebrew projects.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    The Knight was designed for the frontline tank role. If you've ever been making a character and suddenly realized, "Hey, this guy's pretty fragile. I should have someone to stand in front of him and make sure nobody gets past..." then the Knight is what you wanted.

    I understand the Crusader is pretty tough to kill; not sure how it does on controlling the battlefield like the Knight.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    There is a maneuver that forces a foe to attack you or else you get an attack of opportunity against him. That would help.
    A silent knight is better than a holey knight.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    I was actually thinking about this today and I the Dwarven Defender seemed pretty good, except its a prestige class. Oh well, +5 Tower Shields give +9 A.C. with only -2 Attack so a Sword and Board Fighter could be decent...I know fighters suck generally but I'm not good at optimizing and I don't own such exotic books as the Tome of Battle so please don't crush my soul for suggesting this.
    Last edited by jjpickar; 2007-04-05 at 06:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    The Crusader's Thicket of Blade Stance (Devo 3) is virtually the same as the Knight's Bulwark of Defense ability. All forms of movement in the squares you threaten provoke AoOs.
    Last edited by Amiria; 2007-04-05 at 06:46 PM.
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    TheOtherMC's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Knight all the way! I mean come on, he can actually take damage for adjacent allies. (albeit only half at low levels) AND can move 30 feet in heavy armor by 9th level. Oh and diehard as a bonus feat....yeah that says it all right there. OH OH and a 20th level Knight gets the "loyalty beyond death" knights challenge feature. Get this: when reduced to below -10 hp, if your body is still intact (ie. not disentigtrateed or swallowed) you can use a knight's challenge to stay fully active...now a 20th level knight, with 18 CHA (Easy with cloaks and so on) can stave on death for....wait for it......*14 rounds*.....yeah tank indeed.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    I'm a low books person. I have a few books but not many. Paladins, properly feated and skilled, make wonderful tanks. My friend made a medium armor elf paladin who used combat expertise and was a column of stone. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he was immovable. 30+ ac at somewhat low level. Granted, flat footed he was less potent, but not by much.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    take fighter and give him intimidate, then take the never outnumbered trick (complete scoundrel) give him some feats to up AC and to hit, then maybe improved toughness, some magic healing items and your set

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    The knight is a good class, but with the way the game is now if you arn't a spellcaster, psionic, or martial adept of some skill you're probally going to be underpowered.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    The Knight is the best tank, not because it can soak damage the best ... it's the best tank cause it can actually convince intelligent enemies to concentrate damage on him. Non Knight tanks are almost useless. Without the Knight you should always focus on offense, if you focus on defense the only thing you will accomplish against intelligent enemies is to be left to last.

    Or to put it in MMORPG terms ... what use is having a tank who can't hold aggro?
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2007-04-05 at 07:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Well, simply by being a warrior type with a big weapon and heavy armor in the front row will cause a large percentage of all attacks to land on you, people tend not to focus on the weaker poorly armed party members unless they start causing too much trouble, and even then a simple application of combat reflexes and improved trip stops most people from passing you.

    The real trick with being a tank is having a good damage output while still keeping yourself alive. The arcane caster has better things to do then cause damage, the divine caster is trying to keep the party alive, the skill monkey can do lots of damage, but it's unreliable, so a major share of the damage needs to come from you.
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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    Well, simply by being a warrior type with a big weapon and heavy armor in the front row will cause a large percentage of all attacks to land on you, people tend not to focus on the weaker poorly armed party members unless they start causing too much trouble, and even then a simple application of combat reflexes and improved trip stops most people from passing you.
    Most CR appropriate encounter for a mid to high level party will immediately have all enemies engaging the casters with extreme prejudice.

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    By tank I assume you mean someone who can keep everyone away from the crunchy members and do respectable damage while contributing to the effectiveness of the party as a whole?

    Warblade with White Raven and Stone Dragon. One of the White Raven feats lets you make an intimidation check to make an opponent be considered to be flanked for a full minute. That's the Rogue's cue to SA him into oblivion. Take enough Tiger Fang and you can get an ability to make a Jump check, DC = opponent's AC, to make a full attack on a leaping charge. Leaping Charge + Shock Trooper + max Power Attack = hundreds of damage to everything near you in one round.

    Fighter actually doesn't do too bad with the right feats. EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Power Attack, Leaping Charge, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper. All do-able by level 9. He leaps into the middle of everything, make everything fall over and take insane damage, then keep everything down by tripping them every time they get back up.

    PsiWar does better than Fighter, with the right Powers Known. Psionic Lion's Charge + the above feats = hawt death as he gets a FULL attack on a charge. And once you can manifest Expansion with the augmentation, you're looking at a Huge guy wielding a Gargantuan weapon (with Half-Giant as the race). Empathic Transfer, Hostile is also a lifesaver. He does a lot better to segue into the Slayer PrC as soon as possible, though.

    Barbarian is okay, but he doesn't have the battlefield control of the other classes, due to lack of feats. He does generally do more damage when he hits, though.
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    If you're just talking about being able to take a hit and threaten area, a Large monk (say, half-ogre) with 10ft reach, combat reflexes (as a monk bonus feat) and improved toughness can do that pretty well. I know it's not as good as a Crusader, Knight or CoDzilla, but if you've got good enough stats to play a monk then it's decent.

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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best class for a tank?

    Crusaders have abilities similar to knights for forcing enemies to fight them, and they self heal.

    Knights are the runner up.

    After that... spiked chain Fighter, maybe?

    JaronK

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