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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Weapon Selection

    Well I have a cleric who I am building, and I was originally going to get an exotic weapon proficiency for the Great Falchon which is 1d12 18-20 x2, but now I decided to go up fist of Raziel as a PrC and it gives me martial proficiency, should I stay with that weapon or drop the Exotic Weapon Proficiency and use a martial weapon, and if so which one? great sword?

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    Piccamo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Very few exotic weapons are worth the feat and I don't believe Great Falchion is one of them. Most of your damage will not come from your weapon, it will come from everything else (like power attack).

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    I partially disagree. It's true that you can't optimize the damage without Power attack but with the GF's 18-20 crit range it's definately worth it, especially as a cleric.

    Righteous Might + Keen GF + Power Attack = HASSAN CHOP! 3d6(weapon damage scales up when you get larger from RM) + Str and 1/2 + power attack modifier x2(2 handed weapon) with a 15-20 crit range.
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    Zincorium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Exotic weapon proficiency is almost never worth it, and statistically, a greatsword has the best average damage. It's also less crit dependent than a scythe or falchion, it's competitors, and so is more useful against constructs, oozes and plants. If you're a cleric and you're hitting undead with a weapon, something has already gone terribly wrong.
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    I always like the regular Falchion if you have martial weapon proficiency - you don't need an exotic proficiency, and I don't think the loss of average damage (5 pts versus 7) is that big a deal, since as previously said, most of the damage will come from Power Attack, strength and so forth, and I like the extra chance to get a crit, especially with an improved threat range, taking it to 15-20. Granted, it makes you somewhat less effective against non-crittable things than a guy with a greatsword, but I think it's worth it.
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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by NotCC View Post
    I partially disagree. It's true that you can't optimize the damage without Power attack but with the GF's 18-20 crit range it's definately worth it, especially as a cleric.

    Righteous Might + Keen GF + Power Attack = HASSAN CHOP! 3d6(weapon damage scales up when you get larger from RM) + Str and 1/2 + power attack modifier x2(2 handed weapon) with a 15-20 crit range.
    I agree that crit can be worth it, but not worth a feat when you can use a regular falchion for the same effect. 3d6 is roughly 10.5 damage on average and 2d4 goes to 2d6 which is 7 damage on average; they have the same crit chance so it wasn't important to include it for this. It will only matter the first couple levels, but in the long run is not worth the feat.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Mostly useless but popular feats: Exotic Weapon Prof, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Great Cleave, Skill Focus, Toughness, Mobility, Whirlwind Attack.

    As others have pointed out, EWP usually only adds a very small amount of damage. In general, you should avoid feats that only add minor bonuses, are rarely used, or waste actions.

    Compare those feats to more useful but sometimes overlooked feats:
    Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Knock-Down, Hold the Line, Sidestep Charge, Elusive Target, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Snap Kick, Spirited Charge, Headlong Rush, Greater Manyshot, Robilar's Gambit.

    Notice how each of these feats either provides you with an additional action or has damage that scales with levels. If you're not a full caster, you have to be very careful about your feat selection or you will quickly suck compared to your friends.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    So, is there ANY exotic weapon that people here feel is worth the feat?

    Mechanics-wise, of course. The fact that exotic weapons are just cool is a seperate issue.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Piccamo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Spiked Chain.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonmuncher View Post
    So, is there ANY exotic weapon that people here feel is worth the feat?

    Mechanics-wise, of course. The fact that exotic weapons are just cool is a seperate issue.
    In the right build, shuriken.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    In the right build, shuriken.
    this isn't any of the monk/rogue flurry of blows sneak attack chi-returning shurikan trick is it?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    storybookknight's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Hey, specifically with Fist of Raziel, ABSOLUTELY go with the keen Great Falchion. Confirming Smite is hilariously awesome - except roll Pally, so that the smite damage stacks. "What's that? I rolled a 15? Looks like I automatically got a critical hit on that smiting attack, mister bad guy! What's that? I have paladin smite-buff spellcasting too? Crown of Smiting, Divine Sacrifice, etc. etc.? That single power attack did about 150 hp? Well, here's my second attack this round!"
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
    this isn't any of the monk/rogue flurry of blows sneak attack chi-returning shurikan trick is it?
    Monk/Rogue/Master Thrower, actually.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    oh right, forgot to update the build with the newer stuff.

    I remember back in 3.0 when shurikens used to give you 3 attacks for every one normal attack you have.

    Man shurikans were so out of whack back then.

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    What about bastard swords, or a similar one handed weapon? better then A longsword, Plus a shield, or if you get over sized two-weapon fighting, A first level fighter could be dealing as much damage as a level twenty monk!
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Piccamo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Negative. A first level fighter could be dealing the same damage from dice as a level 20 monk. Unfortunately most of your damage by level 20 will not be coming from dice. You get marginally better damage, but you could also just get an animated shield and use a 2-hander for better PA and Strength to damage.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Given the existence of spiked gauntlets, the 5 ft step, and the guisarme, I don't think the Spike chain is really worth it.

    Shuriken are certainly useful for Monk/Master Thrower builds, but you don't need to spend any feats on it, since Monks get it for free.

    Along the same line, the Lajatang, a double weapon that can be used with Flurry from Complete Warrior is useful for certain Monk/Exotic Weapon Master/Master Thrower/Disciple of the Eye builds. You can can get a huge number of attacks, and can negate the To-Hit penalties with Stunning Fist, Knock-Down, and Fear effects.

    The Harpoon from Frostburn is useful if you can get one with the Returning property and have the right feat chain. The Harpoon automatically does the same damage coming out as it does going in.

    The Ritiik, also from Frostburn, basically gives you Knock-Down for one attack and has the same removal=damage property as the harpoon, making it useful with certain feat combos.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Piccamo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Given the existence of spiked gauntlets, the 5 ft step, and the guisarme, I don't think the Spike chain is really worth it.
    The biggest benefit of the spiked chain over the guisarme + spiked gauntlets is that you only have to enchant one weapon. You also get the advantage of any weapon specific feats you have applying to your weapon. I'd say its worthwhile, but not necessary.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    Monk/Rogue/Master Thrower, actually.
    Throw in some Exotic Weapon Master there, too, and it's all sorts of fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randel View Post
    How about the fact that humans can apparently breed with anything on two legs (or even four legs if you count dragons)?

    Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
    Elf: To a human, everything must look like a girl.
    Human: What?
    Elf: Half-orcs, half-ogres...
    Human: ... shut up.
    Dwarf: Half-dragons, half-kobolds.
    Human: I said shut up!
    Elf: ...
    Dwarf: ...
    Human: ...
    Elf: Centaurs.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Kel_Arath's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    ramhammer up in heeah! that plus improved bull rush is fantastic. just keep throwing then enemy farther back and oooooh its fun!

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    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Mostly useless but popular feats: Exotic Weapon Prof, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Great Cleave, Skill Focus, Toughness, Mobility, Whirlwind Attack.
    I was under the impression that Improved Critical was pretty decent if used on a character that makes a lot of attacks (TWF?) and uses good-crit weapons (something with either x4 or 18-20 threat range). No? Still lame?

    And Improved Disarm is great in a campaign where almost all of your enemies are NPC humanoids. Otherwise, yeah, skip it.

    Mobility is good as a prereq sometimes ... well, I guess you can say that about any feat. Even Monkey Grip could be made into a prereq for a good ability *shudder*

    Compare those feats to more useful but sometimes overlooked feats:
    Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Knock-Down, Hold the Line, Sidestep Charge, Elusive Target, Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Snap Kick, Spirited Charge, Headlong Rush, Greater Manyshot, Robilar's Gambit.
    I never saw the point of Sidestep Charge. What about all those times your opponents attack you without charging? Same with Hold the Line.

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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    I guess that, despite for it's price, one of the best exotic weapons is the Light elven blade. It is the fusion of a longsword with a scimitar. 1d8 18-20/x2.

    There is also the Duom. That baddass spear with reach that can attack in close quarters 2. It can be overwhelmed by the Spiked Chain due to her versatility. But it brings the same benefit that the chain brings over the spear + gauntlet combo, you must only enchant one weapon. It also deals a bigger and more constant damage, if I am right.

    Another one is the Dire Pick. But it is only a excuse for "weapon and board" fans to use a Scythe as a one handed weapon.

    The worst exotic weapon? Fukimi Bari? 1 hitpoint always, you cant even use poison with it! War mace? You LOOSE 1 point in the Armor Class to swing it! There are so many o.O
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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    actually to be more Accurate, it would be a fusion Between a Longsword and A rapier, since you can get Weapon finesse For the elven thin blade.


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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    the most effective clerics i've seen always carry shields. but that's because they've specialized as AC monkeys so they can run through attacks and heal.
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    A lot of this depends on what level you are currently playing at, likely rate of advancement and what level you expect play to continue until. At Level 1, a Heavy Shield is always handy and a Great Sword is likely excessive for the probable Hit Points of your opponents. Things change over the course of play, but if you have access to the retraining rules your choices might be quite different than if you do not.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    A lot of this depends on what level you are currently playing at, likely rate of advancement and what level you expect play to continue until. At Level 1, a Heavy Shield is always handy and a Great Sword is likely excessive for the probable Hit Points of your opponents. Things change over the course of play, but if you have access to the retraining rules your choices might be quite different than if you do not.
    With all my stats and rolls I have 120 HP at level 10, I'd say that's pretty darn good to be able to melee.

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Weapon Selection

    Sounds like a Great Sword is your best bet, then. Post up the character if you have the time and want a moe thorough evaluation.
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