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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Post A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Only played it once as a class and always thought it sucked, so now, i´m making it useful for 5th edition

    === New Archetype: Ninja ===

    A Ninja is a master of shadows and deception, a warrior of the dark who trains to use the darkness against his enemies. He learns to distract and destroy his enemies from the darkness.

    ====Ninja Arts====

    When you reach 3rd level you gain the Martial Arts class features from the Monk class. You can do Sneak Attack with your Unarmed Strikes and also can use the Martial Arts feature with thrown weapons. Most Ninja features don´t work unless you are wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield. You also gain Darkvision up to 60 feet or double that amount if you already had Darkvision. You also become proficient in the use of the Poisoner´s kit.

    ==== Uncatchable ====

    Starting at 3rd level, you can use your Cunning Action to throw two additional light thrown weapons if you use an action to throw a weapon. You dont need to have the weapons in hand, just on yourself. You also gain 10 feet of movement. You gain both this abilities only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.

    ==== Ninja Techniques ====

    At 9th level you gain the ability to use Invisibility as the spell a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier. You regain this ability back when you finish a long rest. You gain this ability only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.

    ==== Shadow Evasion ====

    At 13th, once per short rest, when you are missed by a melee or ranged attack, you can immediately cast the spell Misty Step as a reaction. You drop a smokestick at the spot you previously where, engulfing adjacent enemies. After a Short Rest you regain this ability. Additionaly, you can make one of your daily Ninja Techniques into the spell Greater Invisibility. You gain this ability only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.

    ==== Paralyzing Strike ====

    At level 17, when the Ninja scores a hit that would apply Sneak Attack damage, he can choose to reduce that damage to half and make the target do a Constitution saving throw DC 8 + the Ninja´s Proficiency + Wisdom modifier or become paralyzed the next turn the creature would take. The Ninja can use this ability a number of times per short rest equal to his Wisdom modifier. Additionaly, you can make one of your daily Ninja Techniques into the spell Etherealness. You gain this ability only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.

    So, tell me what you think ;)

    P.S.: I did think about giving it unarmored defense, but hey, this isn´t a shadow monk, right?
    Last edited by Tarrab; 2015-02-21 at 12:54 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Hey there. First off, I like most of what you have done with the idea of the ninja, but at first glance I would say that although I see where you are going with the rogue base class, it seems to me that the monk would be a better starting point. I know the ninja of ole had sudden strike and poison use, but it also had the armoured defence of the monk, monk weapons, and was the first class to use ki if I recall correctly. I know there is already a shadow monk, but I still think this would look better on a monk base.

    When you reach 3rd level you gain the Martial Arts class features from the Monk class. You can do Sneak Attack with your Unarmed Strikes and also can use the Martial Arts feature with thrown weapons. Most Ninja features don´t work unless you are wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield. You also gain Darkvision up to 60 feet or double that amount if you already had Darkvision. You also become proficient in the use of the Poisoner´s kit.
    Monks already have Martial arts

    Starting at 3rd level, you can use your Cunning Action to use the Dodge action. You also gain 10 feet of movement. You gain both this abilities only if light or no armor and not wearing a shield.
    Monks already have patient defence

    At 9th level you gain the ability to use Invisibility as the spell a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier. You regain this ability back when you finish a long rest. You gain this ability only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.
    At 13th, once per short rest, when you are missed by a melee or ranged attack, you can immediately cast the spell Misty Step as a reaction. After a Short Rest you regain this ability. Additionaly, you can make one of your daily Ninja Techniques into the spell Greater Invisibility. You gain this ability only if wearing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.
    Both these are second level spells (Darkvision can be put in here too so you dont lose it from the build), so could be rolled into a 3rd level monk ninja feature a la shadow arts: Spend 2 ki and cast them.

    At level 17, when the Ninja scores a hit that would apply Sneak Attack damage, he can choose to reduce that damage to half and make the target do a Constitution saving throw DC 8 + the Ninja´s Proficiency + Charisma modifier or become paralyzed the next turn that the creature would act. Additionaly, you can make one of your daily Ninja Techniques into the spell Etherealness. You gain this ability only if weaing light or no armor and not wearing a shield.
    First part is a neat ability that I would keep, but I would then make the Etherealness another cast with ki ability at around 6-8 ki points.

    So for the alternative monk build I would do something like this:

    3rd: (Ninja Arts) You can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast invisibility, darkvision, misty step & silence, without providing material components. Additionally, you gain
    proficiency with the poisoners kit and thieve's tools.

    6th: (Sudden Strike) Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 2d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse, a ranged weapon or an unarmored strike. You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. Sudden Strikes damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 11th level (3d6), 15th level (4d6), and 19th level (5d6).

    11th: (Master Ninja) You can now cast invisibility and misty step as a reaction when you are missed by a melee or ranged attack. Additionally, you can cast any ninja arts spell as a bonus action, and as an action you can spend 6 ki points to cast true seeing without providing material components.

    17th: (Paralysing Strike) At level 17, when you score a hit that would apply Sudden Strike damage, you can choose to spend 4 ki points and the target must make a Constitution saving throw (vs Ki save DC) or become paralyzed until the end of its next turn. Additionally, as an action you can spend 7 ki points to cast etherealness without providing material components.

    Just some quick ideas, obviously would need refining but you get the idea :)
    Last edited by Ghost Dragon; 2015-02-20 at 05:47 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dragon View Post
    Hey there. First off, I like most of what you have done with the idea of the ninja, but at first glance I would say that although I see where you are going with the rogue base class, it seems to me that the monk would be a better starting point. I know the ninja of ole had sudden strike and poison use, but it also had the armoured defence of the monk, monk weapons, and was the first class to use ki if I recall correctly. I know there is already a shadow monk, but I still think this would look better on a monk base.



    Monks already have Martial arts



    Monks already have patient defence



    Both these are second level spells (Darkvision can be put in here too so you dont lose it from the build), so could be rolled into a 3rd level monk ninja feature a la shadow arts: Spend 2 ki and cast them.



    First part is a neat ability that I would keep, but I would then make the Etherealness another cast with ki ability at around 6-8 ki points.

    So for the alternative monk build I would do something like this:

    3rd: (Ninja Arts) You can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. As an action, you can spend 2 ki points to cast invisibility, darkvision, misty step & silence, without providing material components. Additionally, you gain
    proficiency with the poisoners kit and thieve's tools.

    6th: (Sudden Strike) Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 2d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse, a ranged weapon or an unarmored strike. You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. Sudden Strikes damage increases by 1d6 when you reach 11th level (3d6), 15th level (4d6), and 19th level (5d6).

    11th: (Master Ninja) You can now cast invisibility and misty step as a reaction when you are missed by a melee or ranged attack. Additionally, you can cast any ninja arts spell as a bonus action, and as an action you can spend 6 ki points to cast true seeing without providing material components.

    17th: (Paralysing Strike) At level 17, when you score a hit that would apply Sudden Strike damage, you can choose to spend 4 ki points and the target must make a Constitution saving throw (vs Ki save DC) or become paralyzed until the end of its next turn. Additionally, as an action you can spend 7 ki points to cast etherealness without providing material components.

    Just some quick ideas, obviously would need refining but you get the idea :)
    I do see where you´re going, but you´ve missed one key part, the whole idea is that the way i´ve made it, its gonna be possible to multiclass ninja/shadowmonk for some fiersome combinations. Besides I like the Ninja being kinda monkish, but more rogue oriented. I do think both options are viable, but in all honesty i´d rather keep this with rogue (specially for the skills and growing sneak attack).

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrab View Post
    I do see where you´re going, but you´ve missed one key part, the whole idea is that the way i´ve made it, its gonna be possible to multiclass ninja/shadowmonk for some fiersome combinations. Besides I like the Ninja being kinda monkish, but more rogue oriented. I do think both options are viable, but in all honesty i´d rather keep this with rogue (specially for the skills and growing sneak attack).
    Ahh ok, well if you built it with multiclassing with the monk in mind then I understand, I try build without multiclassing in mind so that's where I was coming from. I still don't think a ninja should be in leather armour as a class feature, but if you are just gonna use it for yourself to multiclass you'll get armoured anyway with monk. Either way you have given me a great idea and starting stuff for a monk ninja subclass so thanks ;)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    I also prefer the down to earth ninja too, after all we already have the 80s magical ninja in the form of the shadow monk.

    I'll tell you that I don't like free Dodge action, it's really too powerful. The monk has to spend not only a resource for that, but also his bonus action is more valuable for him than it's for the rogue, since it's either an extra attack or two, both options at full strenght.

    The rogue's bonus action is more on the utility side of things and you already got martial arts as a combat use for your bonus action. Since your subclass doesn't have any non-combat ability, I would give this ninja something non-combat related at this level. I think that using your cunning action to be able to walk on dangerous terrain / gain climb speed / jump off walls / walk on water / that kind of ninja stuff would be a better fit and would keep this subclass from the "just combat abilities" paradigm.

    I think that your ninja invisibility should be based on INT. To make this one the mundane ninja I would make it like the smoke bomb feature of the paizo ninja, but this is balanced enough.

    Shadow evasion is cool and ok.

    Paralyzing strike is kinda ok, but I would make it trade all the damage for a 1 minute paralyzis with a saving throw each round, kinda like hold person. This should be a 1/short rest ability -or- have the 24 hour clause.
    Last edited by DiBastet; 2015-02-20 at 10:19 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by DiBastet View Post
    I also prefer the down to earth ninja too, after all we already have the 80s magical ninja in the form of the shadow monk.

    I'll tell you that I don't like free Dodge action, it's really too powerful. The monk has to spend not only a resource for that, but also his bonus action is more valuable for him than it's for the rogue, since it's either an extra attack or two, both options at full strenght.

    The rogue's bonus action is more on the utility side of things and you already got martial arts as a combat use for your bonus action. Since your subclass doesn't have any non-combat ability, I would give this ninja something non-combat related at this level. I think that using your cunning action to be able to walk on dangerous terrain / gain climb speed / jump off walls / walk on water / that kind of ninja stuff would be a better fit and would keep this subclass from the "just combat abilities" paradigm.

    I think that your ninja invisibility should be based on INT. To make this one the mundane ninja I would make it like the smoke bomb feature of the paizo ninja, but this is balanced enough.

    Shadow evasion is cool and ok.

    Paralyzing strike is kinda ok, but I would make it trade all the damage for a 1 minute paralyzis with a saving throw each round, kinda like hold person. This should be a 1/short rest ability -or- have the 24 hour clause.
    I kinda was fearing the dodge action too... was thinking of requiring to have a smokestick or something similar and a few times per short rest...

    I think Etherealness, Invisibility and Poisoners kit give non-combat actions a plenty. Seen a guy kill a few guards and a king com essas coisas sem nenhuma luta.

    Basin it on Cha was just to not make it so arcanetrickstery... my first gut was wisdom, and it might go back to that.

    Paralyzing strike as hold person would be vastly up in my opinion. A high level ability doing a lame low level spell? Ud rather keep it more sassy. Might go with a number per short rest though so it aint too OP.

    Good feedback, yet again, my archetype critique

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dragon View Post
    Ahh ok, well if you built it with multiclassing with the monk in mind then I understand, I try build without multiclassing in mind so that's where I was coming from. I still don't think a ninja should be in leather armour as a class feature, but if you are just gonna use it for yourself to multiclass you'll get armoured anyway with monk. Either way you have given me a great idea and starting stuff for a monk ninja subclass so thanks ;)
    Glad I could help! I would like to point out that the Shadow Monk already is a 'Ninja' in almost everything xept the name. Give'm a poisoner kit proficiency in the background and you're solid.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dragon View Post
    Ahh ok, well if you built it with multiclassing with the monk in mind then I understand, I try build without multiclassing in mind so that's where I was coming from. I still don't think a ninja should be in leather armour as a class feature, but if you are just gonna use it for yourself to multiclass you'll get armoured anyway with monk. Either way you have given me a great idea and starting stuff for a monk ninja subclass so thanks ;)
    Oh, and by the way, no fun intended, but Ninja wore armor, usally light or actually medium by D&D definition, when going to battle, which is what Iga was all about in the end. They actually didnt even wear the wholly black suits we see in movies to begin with ;). Goota love historical innacuracy...

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrab View Post
    Glad I could help! I would like to point out that the Shadow Monk already is a 'Ninja' in almost everything xept the name. Give'm a poisoner kit proficiency in the background and you're solid.
    Yeh I know, way of shadow should of just been called ninja lol, I just like the idea of twisting it slightly to get it more like the 3.5 class ;)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: A new Rogue Archetype: the Ninja!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrab View Post
    Oh, and by the way, no fun intended, but Ninja wore armor, usally light or actually medium by D&D definition, when going to battle, which is what Iga was all about in the end. They actually didnt even wear the wholly black suits we see in movies to begin with ;). Goota love historical innacuracy...
    Well I don't know my history lol, I guess I'm just a sucker for the whole Hollywood black suited no armor ninja look ;)

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