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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WarBrute's Avatar

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    Default Two handed wepons and casting

    (sorry about misspelling weapons in theard name)

    First let me explain, my favorite class is the warmage and this issue comes up quite a bit with all my DMs. Whether its a long spear or some kind of two handed sword I have always believed I should be able to cast a spell with a somatic component.

    I was just curious how many times the issue my come up in your campaigns and how you handle it.
    Last edited by WarBrute; 2007-04-08 at 11:58 PM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    I would think (my opinion only here) that you could/should be able to do so, so long as you're just holding it, not attacking with it. Unless you have something like Arcane Channeling which seems to get around that by making the whacking part of the whole process.

    My $.02, Canadian no less.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can’t cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied.
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061201a
    Q: Dear Sage,
    When a duskblade uses arcane channeling to deliver a touch spell with a somatic component, does he require one hand free?
    --Grant

    A: According to a strict interpretation of the rules, the duskblade would still need to perform any components required by the spell. If the spell had somatic components, the duskblade would need a hand free.
    You require a hand free. its that simple.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lemur's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    I'm in agreement with Lolth. A lot of fictional works show wizards using magic while holding a staff. Besides, it's not like you're not gonna break the game by doing so.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Seffbasilisk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Somatic Weaponry is a feat. Don't remember the book right now, but it lets you cast with a weapon in hand as long as the material components are in hand or you have eschew material components.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Dhavaer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    You can cast, as long as you don't attack that turn. There's nothing stopping you from holding the weapon in one hand, it just won't be useable.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zincorium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    A two handed weapon requires two hands to wield, however, most of them are not too heavy to simply hold in one hand while you use the aforementioned other hand to make the somatic gestures.

    What would this mean? You are no longer considered armed unless you have some other weapon such as an improved unarmed strike or spiked armor in addition to your main two handed weapon for the duration that you are not actually wielding it. You also can't mix casting with hitting someone with the blade.

    For a caster who routinely uses weapons along with their casting, Somatic Weaponry is a very good feat investment.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Ted_Stryker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    If you're finding yourself in melee a lot, Arcane Strike is also a good option for a Warmage once you hit 8th (I think) level.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Just had a neat thought...

    The fact that you have to hold the staff in one hand while casting a spell is a great fluff explanation for why you provoke an AoO when you cast.
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Im not seeing the issue here. 9 times out of 10, you cast a spell, or swing a weapon, not both. The few things that would let you do both, either grant you extra actions, or make one of those actions "really fast," to the point of making the time it takes to do them negligable. So I take one hand off my quarter staff, mumble, shoot spell, replace hand, next round I am ready to smack things with quarter-staff again. I think almost any DM would agree that changing the positon of your hand is a free action (Im sorry Johny, you took more than a 5 foot step, so you cant wipe your nose this round.)
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    One thing to remember, you cannot cast with a 1h weapon and a heavy shield. You can cast with a small shield or a buckler, but not with a heavy shield.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    I don't know the source, but I'm pretty sure it's a free action to take a hand off or put a hand on a weapon.

    Somatic Weaponry always struck me as being for TWF or weapon + heavy shield users.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    A DM would be fully within their right to require you to use the "draw weapon" action to ready a 2h weapon in two hands after having held it in one hand, I disagree with this logic as you don't keep both hands firmly on the weapon when fighting with it anyways (you tend to move your off hand around a bit).

    In any case going from 2h to 1h should be a free action, similar to dropping a weapon.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    daggaz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Its a free action. Its even in the FAQ somewhere. Any DM who is being anal about something like this is...well, just anal.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    i agree, any Dm who demands you spend an action putting your hand back on your staff ect is within his right to see his gaming group reduced to 1 person.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    It is indeed a free action to let go of a weapon, or to grab a weapon with one hand that was already held with another. Thus, you can absolutely let go of a greatsword to cast a spell, then grab it again and still be armed.

    This is why a lot of clerics like to use two handers... you can't pull that trick with a heavy shield and hand weapon, or with two weapons, without the Somatic Weaponry feat.

    JaronK

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    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Note that you can also pick up and/or draw weapons as a move action.

    A cleric can use a heavy shield and drop-cast-draw in order to remain armed. Just another reason to carry some extra daggers. While dropping and picking up items provokes attacks of opportunity it is still quite effective when the character is out of direct melee.
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Somatic Weaponry is a feat. Don't remember the book right now, but it lets you cast with a weapon in hand as long as the material components are in hand or you have eschew material components.
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    One thing to remember, you cannot cast with a 1h weapon and a heavy shield. You can cast with a small shield or a buckler, but not with a heavy shield.
    It's not really that clear that a Caster can gesture with a Light / Small Shield. According to the FAQ, he cannot use his Shield hand to do so:
    My DM says that my cleric has to drop his morningstar
    to cast spells. Is he right?
    Yes and no. To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component,
    you must gesture freely with at least one hand. (Player’s
    Handbook, page 140) A cleric (or any caster, for that matter)
    who holds a weapon in one hand and wears a heavy shield on
    the other arm doesn’t have a hand free to cast a spell with a
    somatic component (which includes most spells in the game).
    To cast such a spell, the character must either drop or sheathe
    his weapon.
    Another simple option is for the cleric to carry a buckler or
    light shield instead of a heavy shield. The buckler leaves one
    hand free for spellcasting, and you don’t even lose the
    buckler’s shield bonus to AC when casting with that hand. The
    light shield doesn’t give you a free hand for spellcasting, but
    since you can hold an item in the same hand that holds the light
    shield, you could switch your weapon to that hand to free up a
    hand for spellcasting. (You can’t use the weapon while it’s held
    in the same hand as your shield, of course.) The rules don’t
    state what type of action is required to switch hands on a
    weapon, but it seems reasonable to assume that it’s the
    equivalent of drawing a weapon (a move action that doesn’t
    provoke attacks of opportunity).
    Shield, Light, Wooden or Steel
    You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield’s weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
    Wooden or Steel
    Wooden and steel shields offer the same basic protection, though they respond differently to special attacks.
    Shield Bash Attacks
    You can bash an opponent with a light shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a light shield as a light weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Telok View Post
    A cleric can use a heavy shield and drop-cast-draw in order to remain armed. Just another reason to carry some extra daggers. While dropping and picking up items provokes attacks of opportunity it is still quite effective when the character is out of direct melee.
    A Character with a Heavy Shield and Weapon is still armed if he drops his weapon. It's not strictly necessary to draw another.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-04-10 at 12:42 AM.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    A DM would be fully within their right to require you to use the "draw weapon" action to ready a 2h weapon in two hands after having held it in one hand, I disagree with this logic as you don't keep both hands firmly on the weapon when fighting with it anyways (you tend to move your off hand around a bit).
    This is factually correct, as is any statement beginning "A DM would be fully within their rights..."

    D&D is not a democracy. The DM is fully within their rights to ban your character class halfway into the first fight scene, or make your celibate Paladin make a Will save versus whoring followed by a Fortitude save versus VD. The DM is, as we are all aware, fully with his rights to declare that "Rocks fall, everybody dies."

    And, as other posters have pointed out, players are fully within their rights to walk.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SpiderBrigade's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Well that was an interesting dissertation on D&D power dynamics, D_H

    Does that mean you think such a ruling would cause players to walk?
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Two handed wepons and casting

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    Well that was an interesting dissertation on D&D power dynamics, D_H

    Does that mean you think such a ruling would cause players to walk?
    I think two posters already said that they would, so presumably yes.

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