How is shadowrun compared to the storytelling systems of whitewolf?

[MonkeySage]

I was considering laying out the framework for a couple possible future games- a Space Opera sci fantasy game, and a cyberpunk cosmic horror game(assuming only human player characters). At first I considered doing these games using a variation on the storytelling systems, but when I went to buy the books I asked the cashier his thoughts- he recommended Shadowrun, and showed me the core rulebook. Currently it is way out of my price range, but I can say it piqued my interest. Among other things, I find the injury system to be one of the reasons I like storytelling games. I'm not necessarily looking for a rules lite system... though I suspect for a horror game it might be nice to have a system that allows for quick character creation.


The Horror game, naturally, would be aimed at a dark, cynical tone.
The sci fan. game would be more optimistic.

I ran a sadly very brief Vampire the Masquerade game a while back... the player didn't like that the game basically forced him into a less than heroic mold.

[Arbane]

For cosmic horror cyberpunk: I know there was a 'GURPS Cthulhupunk' at one point, but maybe Eclipse Phase would be a better fit? (More transhumanist than cyberpunk, but it's kind of close...)

[Kol Korran]

Shadowrun is not a narrativistic game, but rather a simultionist game, meaning it focuses more on mimicking the "reality" of the world more than it does to stream line stories.

The system is VERY complex rules wise, and character generation can take a LOT of time.

Shadow run is set in the near future, and is a combination of sci fi (Things like the matrix, automatic drones, cyber arms and eyes and so), magic (Methumanity such as trolls, elves... magic and spirits), and a very specific mind set (The characters are sort of mercenary outlaws, on the fringes of society, doing dangerous jobs as "Expendable assets"... The game is often grim, with a strong emphasis of the PCs being sort of the chaotic rebellious underdogs of the world, and very rarely do they get fully on top)

Note: The game often can deal with adult themed stuff, fairly serious stuff, such s atrocities, heavy crime, drugs, addictions, and dubious morals. Be sure your players are ready for this, or just omit stuff you don't like. A big appeal of the setting is it's "Adult" nature.

[goto124]

I heard that the different 'classes' such as hacker or whatever, run on completely different rules, so it's easy for other players to get bored waiting on one person to finish his/her turn of doing stuff...

[Kol Korran]

There are no classes, but rather sort of "Archetypes"- Mage, street samurai, hacker, face, rigger, weapons specialist and so on... That said, it's entirely point buy character creation (You buy everything- your race, attributes, skills, equipment, connections, magic spells, cyberwear and more...)

The problem with people waiting for other to finish their turn, comes from two sources:
1) 3 "interaction environments": There is the real world, the astral world (Accessible by mages) and the matrix (Accessible to those appropriate cyberwear and programs). the two later environments require quite a specialization, so usually only one person is active in them, which means that when someone goes on the astral, or on the matrix, they usually go alone, and the rest need to wait for them to finish their thing. Sometimes it's short, sometime less so... The matrix especially feels highly technical and a sort of a mini game, so unless the rest of the players understand the rules, it's basically listening to nearly an entire different game. The astrl is less of a problem, since it draws from imges known to all. Mny groups used to "hire a hacker", which does things in the background, though recent additions tried to simplify things, and also include challenges that involve the entire team (A battle while the hacker does his stuff on the matrix), but it's a partial success at best.

2) Phases: Some characters gain the ability to gain more than one action phase per round- 2,3, or 4 phases even. This can happen in combat (Martial artist or Heavy Cyberwear warriors, or by magic), in the matrix, or in the astral. This usually comes down to some people acting more, some less, sometime to a considerable, amount. Which in turn, makes those with less action phases to wait for those with more.

The solution however is quite simple- just remove action phases. This has an added benefit of getting the characters investing in these (As action economy is king, you HAVE to invest in them to remain competitive), to choose other mroe interesting, and mroe varied options.

[MonkeySage]

Hmm... guessing shadowrun isn't very flexible? Would another system be better suited to the concepts I hoped to represent? Other than gurps or savage worlds, I mean.

[Dimers]

Hmm... guessing shadowrun isn't very flexible? Would another system be better suited to the concepts I hoped to represent? Other than gurps or savage worlds, I mean.

I like Shadowrun, but I'd have to recommend against it for both kinds of game you want. The main attraction of Shadowrun is its setting, and a lot of the mechanics relate to setting-specific things. The system isn't completely unworkable for what you want, but it certainly does nothing to help you. Not a 'universal' system.

I'm afraid I don't have better suggestions. White Wolf and GURPS could both be okay for the horror game. I'm sure there's better, but I don't have broad experience.