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2015-02-20, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
E11So my dream is to make a balanced system of low power but common magic that doesn't outstrip other classes while at the same time not becoming GOD (or any other deity ... or Cthulhu). So what I am doing is doing three base classes that like pathfinder have archetypes that go up to level six (The E6). Furthermore there will be prestige classes that can be anything from 3 to 5 levels (The PE5 part) that will be based off the base classes and the other prestige classes already made for DnD 3.5.
Now that we are done with that I will move on to magic, the most controversial subject in almost any DND game. Now I have played and Dm for over ten years in RL and have tried my hand at a variety of systems concerning magic. Anything from Donjon to the common Cast and Forget mechanic. Throughout all of this I found that each has a huge problem. Late game magic rules. Period. So this got me rather upset since I want my worlds to make sense and be realistic ... as they can be. So from my massive amount of roleplaying experience, unhealthy amount of time reading fantasy novels, and my obsession in studying the occult and folk lore relating to magic I have devised AN ORRIGNAL IDEA. Adapt from everything and see how it works.
Frist off I love midnights system approach to magic, it fixes some of the problems and make the channeler fell like a true mage while (mostly) not over shadowing the party. I love the idea of how anyone could learn magic and I thought the cost of a feat was appropriate. In particularly though I like the way they did their spell points though I found I also liked some of the variants post here. Next off there is pathfinders words of power, a neat approach that still has the issue of being op and still runs off a slot system. I hate slots btw. Moving along there is the incantation system(Srd) devised by DnD as well as this ritual system (which in my mind is the superior version) which capture the idea of magic being a difficult and mysterious art.
I could go on but there are dozen more systems that I like but these capture parts that I like the most. BUT HERES THE THING. NO EXP IS GOING TO EXISTS IN MY SYSTEM. I hate the idea of using exp for crafting or casting a spell. Its either to high or the cost is pointless. Instead crafting does con damage that takes time to heal since it is drawing from the essence of the spell caster. No depending on the environment this can take a long time (if constantly fighting) or a short time(in a tower mostly resting).
So my idea was to limit combat casting (not the feat) to only reach up to third level spells. Anything above that can only be done as a ritual and any ritual most be researched, developed, and experimented with before it can be done. Then there would be the perils of casting the ritual in itself. Casting would be like that from the midnight system though in addition to schools there would be traditions. Traditions are aspects of study that combines multiple schools in to what spells a channler may learn from. Anything outside of that is difficult to learn and cost double the amount of spell points. This would only be for those who took levels in the spell casting base class (or any prestige class that gave casting). The mage craft and spellcasting feats would only be for noncasters and will be rewritten as such. Any spell 4th level can be used as a seed for making a ritual.
Next thing to now magic items are rare. We (or myself if no one is interested) will be making a new system that makes magic items only through rituals. This makes them something special since so much effort has to go into making one. But there are what I call Curios that a ritualist can make. This are similar to the idea of what midnight has created called charms. Mine will embodied things closer to cantrips that are either one time use, constantly active, or can be used with a command. But they only do VERY small things. (ex. A bell that lights all candles within 10ft whenever it is rung). These Curios can be made without the use of spells or feats. Instead these are rituals passed down through families or professions that aid in day to day living. One can learn one of these Curios rituals at the cost of 2 skill points when making your character. (Max 1).
So how does this sound?Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-21 at 12:02 AM.
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2015-02-20, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Base Classes
Mage Level BAB Mind Body Soul Special Main/Focus Essance Spell Level 1st +0 +0 +0 +1 Path, Channeler, Tradition 1/-212nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Class Feat 2/-313rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Tradition 2/1524th +2 +1 +1 +4 ClassFeat 3/1625th +2 +1 +1 +4 Tradition 3/2736th +3 +2 +2 +5 Class Feat 3/393Spoiler: Class Features
Paths: At first level you chose one of the fallowing paths. This determines your hit die, skill list, feat pool, ability selection, and later on determines what fields you may focus in. For the channler class this determines what pool of traditions you may pick from. For Combatents this determines what styles you may pick from. For specialists this determines what pool of skill tricks you may pick from.
Spoiler: Paths
Spoiler: NameName:
HD: d6
Skills
Skills: (4+Int Mod.)x4
Casting Ability:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Path Feats:
Spoiler: Focus
Spoiler: Name FocusName:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Spoiler: Name FocusName:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Spoiler: Name FocusName:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Warrior Level BAB Mind Body Soul Special Main/Focus Edge Technique Level 1st +0 +0 +0 +1 Path, Combatant, Style (Novice), Bonus Feat 1/-212nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Class Feat 2/-313rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Style (Journeymen), Bonus Feat 2/1524th +2 +1 +1 +4 Class Feat 3/1625th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Feat 3/2736th +3 +2 +2 +5 Class Feat, Style (Mastery) 3/393
Spoiler: Class Features
Paths: At first level you chose one of the fallowing paths. This determines your hit die, skill list, feat pool, ability selection, and later on determines what fields you may focus in. For the channler class this determines what pool of traditions you may pick from. For Combatents this determines what styles you may pick from. For specialists this determines what pool of skill tricks you may pick from.
Spoiler: Paths
Spoiler: NameName:
HD: d6
Skills
Skills: (4+Int Mod.)x4
Casting Ability:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Spoiler: FocusAbilities:
Expert Level BAB Mind Body Soul Special Main/Focus Expertise Talent Level 1st +0 +0 +0 +1 Path, Professional, Specialty 1/-212nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Class Feat, Skill Trick 2/-313rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Specialty 2/1524th +2 +1 +1 +4 Class Feat, Skill Trick 3/1625th +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Feat 3/2736th +3 +2 +2 +5 Class Feat, Specialty, Skill Trick 3/393
Spoiler: Class Features
Paths: At first level you chose one of the fallowing paths. This determines your hit die, skill list, feat pool, ability selection, and later on determines what fields you may focus in. For the channler class this determines what pool of traditions you may pick from. For Combatents this determines what styles you may pick from. For specialists this determines what pool of skill tricks you may pick from.
Spoiler: Paths
Spoiler: NameName:
HD: d6
Skills
Skills: (4+Int Mod.)x4
Casting Ability:
Traditions:
Description:
Abilities:
Spoiler: FocusAbilities:
Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-28 at 08:46 PM.
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2015-02-20, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Presteiege
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2015-02-20, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Races
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2015-02-20, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Skills, Skill Tricks, and Feats
Skills: As Srd except as noted below.Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-24 at 08:38 AM.
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2015-02-20, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Magic (Rituals and Combat Casting)
Number of spells by level per tradition
1- 9
2- 6
3- 3
http://altreligion.about.com/od/ritu...s-Of-Magic.htm
Magic
Channelers use essence which is a pool of energy they draw from to cast there spells. A spells essence cost is equal to its seeds' (aka spell effect) level + meta seeds(range, target, shape, duration) - spell components . Note meta seeds and spell components do not raise or lower a spells level, they just add to the essence cost. A channaler can cast a spell of an level equal to what is listed on there table(basically srd); maxing out at level three spells that can used in combat (or spells that take a maximum of one round to cast).
A character gains a number of bonus essence points equal to 1/5 their main casting modifier rounded up.
Spell Seeds: These are the most basic form of a concept that can be combined with other seeds and/or meta seeds to create a magical effect.
Meta seeds: A meta seed alters a spell profile fro its original form in the way of range, target, shape, duration, and casting time (shortens only and may not be used if the spell component Casting time (lengthen) is used). The cost of the enhancement is equal to the spell level times the additional mana cost per enhancement.
Spell components: A spell coponet lowers the essence cost (if a combat spell) or its Ritual DC (If its casted as a ritual).
Examples: Casting time(lengthens only), materials, somatic (wisdom check), verbal (intelligent), dance (dex check), blood(spell level *d4 dmg + con check), Sacrifice (gold worth), Aided Casting, spell sigils (circles, runes, art aka a craft check), ect...
Combat Magic
To be considered a combat spell it must meet the following requirements; anything outside falls ourside this requirement automatically classifies it as a ritual spell:
- May not have a longer casting time of a full round action.
- May not cost move than twice the channalers caster level.
- May not have any Ritual Meta Seeds or Ritual Spell Components.
- May Not have a duration longer than Minutes times caster level.
- May not use a spell seed above level 3
Rituals
Any spell can be casted as a ritual though spells that total level four or higher can only be casted as rituals. A ritual can be casted without using the channelers essence but requires the character to make a caster level check (aka total amount of levels that have in classes that grant essence points; max 11). All rituals automatically have the spell component Casting Time (Hours-Ritual) applied to them and may not take one that is shorter. A ritual can have up to I/2 your caster level worth of seed levels. For example a sixth level character can have a maximum of 3 spell seeds. Meta seeds and spell components now adjust the spells ritual dc instead of draining from a channalers essence pool.
In addition any spell above fourth level is considered a ritual seed, may never be used in combat magic's, and do not benefit from the spell component Duration (hours) since it is the only way to cast spells above 4th level due to the spell seeds complexity.
Traditions:
Spoiler: List of Tradtions
alchemy
necromancy
true name
elemental
-Fire
-Earth
-water
-air
Runes
Astrology
Saguinmacncy (Blood magic)
Shadow (Need a better name)
sympathy
folk magic
Druidic
rootwork
numerology
conjuring
-demonic
-celestial
-Elemental (Pick one)
Divine//Profane
-Gods (pICK ONE OR A PATHEON)
-Spirits (Ancestral or elemental)
-Daemons
-???
animism
witchcraft
Chaos Magic
Occult Engineering,
Urban Shamanism
Hermetic (Golden Dawn) OTO
Thelema
Shamanism (American Indian), Seid (pre-Christian Norse, Germanic)
Shapeshifting, Nagualism
Feng Shui & Geomancy (Sacred Geometry)
Tai Chi, Yoga, QiGong, Acupuncture, Reiki
Voodoo/Vodun, Hoodoo, Santeria, Palo Monte
Kabbalistic / Cabbalistic (Hebrew Mysticism)
Polynesian Kahunaism
Angel Magic,
Fairy Magic,
Stone Magick,
Tree Magick,
Image Magick,
Knot Magick,
Candle Magick,
Wax Magick,
Mirror Magick,
Storm Magick,
Sea Magick
Gnostic
Wiccan (though this can come in very disparate flavors)
Stregha (as exemplified in the work of Raven Grimassi)
Pow Wow
???
and many many moreLast edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-03-13 at 12:43 PM.
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2015-02-20, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Anything else
Spoiler: Plot Points: The EXP Replacement
Written just not typed yet
Spoiler: Template
PHP Code:[table="width:750, class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr="class:outer_border"]
[th="colspan:2"][/th]
[th="colspan:3"]CLASS NAME[/th]
[th][/th]
[/tr]
[tr="class:outer_border, bgcolor:#8E5A2E"]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]Level[/b][/color][/td]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]BAB[/b][/color][/td]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]Fort[/b][/color][/td]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]Ref[/b][/color][/td]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]Will[/b][/color][/td]
[td="align:center"][color=#FFFFFF][b]Special[/b][/color][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]+0[/td]
[td]+0[/td]
[td]+0[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]Initial class features[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+0[/td]
[td]+0[/td]
[td]+3[/td]
[td]—[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+3[/td]
[td]—[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]+2[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+4[/td]
[td]—[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]+2[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+1[/td]
[td]+4[/td]
[td]Bonus feat[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]+3[/td]
[td]+2[/td]
[td]+2[/td]
[td]+5[/td]
[td]—[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-23 at 11:01 AM.
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2015-02-22, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
I'm a little concerned by the choice of only three classes for over 50% of the game. While your classes are pretty generic (since every ability seems to be player choice dependent), this doesn't leave a lot of room for variance in terms of party durability, attack potential, and so forth, since you only have three frameworks to build abilities on (and thus also less room for unique class sub-systems like martial maneuvers, invocations, bindings, bardic music...the unique stuff that makes the classes distinct). This might change once you get your classes written up, but it's a potential cause for concern.
On Magic: I could go on but there are dozen more systems that I like but these capture parts that I like the most.
BUT HERES THE THING. NO EXP IS GOING TO EXISTS IN MY SYSTEM. I hate the idea of using exp for crafting or casting a spell. Its either to high or the cost is pointless. Instead crafting does con damage that takes time to heal since it is drawing from the essence of the spell caster. No depending on the environment this can take a long time (if constantly fighting) or a short time(in a tower mostly resting).
So my idea was to limit combat casting (not the feat) to only reach up to third level spells. Anything above that can only be done as a ritual and any ritual most be researched, developed, and experimented with before it can be done. Then there would be the perils of casting the ritual in itself. Casting would be like that from the midnight system though in addition to schools there would be traditions. Traditions are aspects of study that combines multiple schools in to what spells a channler may learn from. Anything outside of that is difficult to learn and cost double the amount of spell points. This would only be for those who took levels in the spell casting base class (or any prestige class that gave casting). The mage craft and spellcasting feats would only be for noncasters and will be rewritten as such. Any spell 4th level can be used as a seed for making a ritual.
So how does this sound?
So you've piqued my interest, but you haven't sold me on the idea yet. I'll be checking back, to be sure.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2015-02-22, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Well each class is actually 3 or more classes. What is shown is the common feature of all the variants. Everything from Hd to abilities though are in parcels from which a player can pick from. Further more later on you can get a focus within a path wih is basically a clas within a class.
Further more you can multiclass with the other chassis and create a hybrid of paths with each chassis though you can only do one thing with one focus per chassis.
This I think will allow players the best way to build there characters around their ideas without being stuck with the generic things. Literal almost everything is there choice with just some things placed up so it doesn't go crazy.
I am running of the system from midnight but casting only goes up to level three spells. Any spell higher than that can only be casted as a ritual through a system I'm designing based on the second ritual system I mentioned above. These spells are hard to do and take any where from hours to years to do so doing them become an adventure onto themselves. Cool thing about this though is that anyone can learn a ritual and any spell can be casted as a ritual.
Good point. Cause in the world I am place to buy magic items and no resurrection can occur (only something the gods can do. Period.). Hmm well what I want to do is have the game broke into two parts. Party time and solo(or minigroup) quests. Which are as they sound, the party times are just when the group goes off to do adventures, fight wars, ect. Solo quests are for character development when a player levels up or reaches a stretch of free time. This is a dming tool for when
1. DM is having issue with RL
2. For people to craft or train or train an army or create a castle or do a prestige mini adventure so they can take a level in that class or ect ..
3. Character Development if some one wants to change or add something to their character plot wise.
4.And cause ts fun to have a break and do something else for yourself for awhile.
Yes to a maximum of level 11. Thing is though they can still learn ways to combine or craft new spells. If homebrew it just needs the dm's ok. If someone wants a higher level spell for lower level they can work on a lesser version. Or they can learn it as a ritual.
My games tend to be 50/50 for rp and combat. But even in combat I encourage players to rp since they can get bonuses for figuring out neat ways to deal with a problem.
I understand completely. Should have some of the mechanics posted towards wendsay since I am in the middle of midterms atm.
I will try my hardest oh great Genie.Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-23 at 11:00 AM.
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2015-02-26, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Right in the middle of starting on writing. Stuff will be up in a few hours.
Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-26 at 01:49 PM.
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2015-02-26, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Decided to scrap dnd's magic system and make my own.
I will have the rough of it up sometime tonight.
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2015-02-27, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
This could easily become waaaaaay too complicated. You don't want to give players too few choices, but you also really want to be wary of giving players too many choices. If all of those traditions are immediately available choices you pretty much ensure that no player who isn't a rules-obsessive will fully know the options available: with just the traditions you have written there are 44 separate traditions, not counting sub-traditions.
That's going to make choosing your tradition quite an imposing task.
Ingredients
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5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2015-02-27, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-02-27 at 08:03 PM.
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2015-02-27, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Not really. I think you should pick whether or not magic traditions are different in theme (like Arcane vs. Divine), in mechanics (like Binding vs. Magic vs. Incarnum vs. Truenaming), or just categories of similar magic (like Conjuration vs. Transmutation vs. Abjuration vs. Evocation). That'll help narrow down exactly what traditions are supposed to accomplish in terms of game-space, and then you can select which ones you want to fit that idea.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2015-02-27, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
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2015-02-28, 01:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Cool. Just make sure you pick ones that don't overlap.
For example: currently, I'm not sure where Druidic Magic, Folklore Magic, Faerie Magic, and Wiccan Magic differ. All are really conceptually similar in a lot of ways.
So just make sure the traditions you end up with are distinct enough to not cause confusion.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2015-02-28, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Understood, what I might do is make Preteiege classes based on the ideas with their concepts like historical examples that give access to what I call a class tradition. Basically the class has seeds only it can use through its own essence pool that reflects its particular area of study. So things like :
Druid
Hedge Wizard
Slyvain Pact Maker (or some such, realy stuck on the name)
Witch
Would become new prestige classes. Do you think that's a little more sound?
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2015-02-28, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
That does sound better, yes.
For that example: perhaps a single Folkloric Magic tradition (emphasis on ritual magic and quick-to-cast utility spells, natural elements, potions, herbalism, animal transformation and so forth) that covers your basic Druid and Witch archetypes, with prestige classes like Slyvan Pact Maker, Hedge Wizard, or Child of the Forestfor further specialization.
Ingredients
2oz Djinn
5oz Water
1 Lime Wedge
Instructions
Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.
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2015-02-28, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Good point. Basically I want to do is there to be paths and each path gives a list of three traditions (which gives you a list of spell seeds, meta seeds, spell components you can learn related to the tradition).
For example:
Astrologer(Path)
Traditions: Stars, Divination, Scrying?
OR
Hedge Wizard (or Witch)
Traditions: Root Work, Elemental (Pick one), Animal
Alllllllrighty a very bare and lose system write up of the general system of magic for this system. This is so you have a idea of what I have been writing soooo far.
Magic in E11 is a combination of pathfinders words of magic, donjon's idea of magic words, and my take on spell points.
Magic
Channelers use essence which is a pool of energy they draw from to cast there spells. A spells essence cost is equal to its seeds' (aka spell effect) level + meta seeds(range, target, shape, duration) - spell components . Note meta seeds and spell components do not raise or lower a spells level, they just add to the essence cost. A channaler can cast a spell of an level equal to what is listed on there table(basically srd); maxing out at level three spells that can used in combat (or spells that take a maximum of one round to cast).
A character gains a number of bonus essence points equal to 1/5 their main casting modifier rounded up.
Spell Seeds: These are the most basic form of a concept that can be combined with other seeds and/or meta seeds to create a magical effect.
Meta seeds: A meta seed alters a spell profile fro its original form in the way of range, target, shape, duration, and casting time (shortens only and may not be used if the spell component Casting time (lengthen) is used). The cost of the enhancement is equal to the spell level times the additional mana cost per enhancement.
Spell components: A spell coponet lowers the essence cost (if a combat spell) or its Ritual DC (If its casted as a ritual).
Examples: Casting time(lengthens only), materials, somatic (wisdom check), verbal (intelligent), dance (dex check), blood(spell level *d4 dmg + con check), Sacrifice (gold worth), Aided Casting, spell sigils (circles, runes, art aka a craft check), ect...
Combat Magic
To be considered a combat spell it must meet the following requirements; anything outside falls ourside this requirement automatically classifies it as a ritual spell:
- May not have a longer casting time of a full round action.
- May not cost move than twice the channalers caster level.
- May not have any Ritual Meta Seeds or Ritual Spell Components.
- May Not have a duration longer than Minutes times caster level.
- May not use a spell seed above level 3
Rituals
Any spell can be casted as a ritual though spells that total level four or higher can only be casted as rituals. A ritual can be casted without using the channelers essence but requires the character to make a caster level check (aka total amount of levels that have in classes that grant essence points; max 11). All rituals automatically have the spell component Casting Time (Hours-Ritual) applied to them and may not take one that is shorter. A ritual can have up to I/2 your caster level worth of seed levels. For example a sixth level character can have a maximum of 3 spell seeds. Meta seeds and spell components now adjust the spells ritual dc instead of draining from a channalers essence pool.
In addition any spell above fourth level is considered a ritual seed, may never be used in combat magic's, and do not benefit from the spell component Duration (hours) since it is the only way to cast spells above 4th level due to the spell seeds complexity.Last edited by Iwhowrite; 2015-03-01 at 01:26 PM.
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2015-03-13, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Da bump (also will have more up tomorrow)
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2015-03-20, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iwhowrites E11 system or E6 + PE5
Still here just don't have a cess to a computer till tomorrow so can update.