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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Home Patch Rules: There are three main reasons for doing this.
    1. There are no set rules for making/wielding a larger shield in any of the books I have or have been informed about.
    2. Sword and shield wielding is a less supported fighting style than most of the others and could use a slight face lift.
    3. This also slightly increases the usefulness of monkey grip and the epic feat wield over sized weapon, which are to a degree, not as powerful as they should be.

    Weaponized Shields:
    All shields can be made double thick like a weapons to do more damage identical to a weapon of a larger size. For all intents purposes they retain their normal AC and are treated as one size larger for weapon damage; their weight and hit points are also doubled. To use them at all you require is the monkey grip feat and implies a -2 hit when shield bashing with the shield; as you normally would with a larger weapon with the monkey grip feat. If you have the ability to wield a larger weapon with out penalty you ignore the -2 to hit when shield bashing. A shield that is built for a larger person that is weaponized is treated as being two sizes larger than normally and can not be wielded. You may increase the weapon's damage even more by adding shield spikes and armor razors as per the normal rules, but their cost and weight is doubled as well. Surprisingly this does not effect arcane spell chance failure or armor check penalty.

    Larger Shield Rules:
    When using a shield that was designed for someone one size larger than you is simpler than using a weapon that is one size larger. In any case, a shield that is made for some one a size larger is treated as the shield listed all intensive purposes with properties such as arcane spell chance failure, weight, armor check penalty, and weapon size, but not proficiency's. You only require to have the proficiency for the shield as it was designed to wield, the monkey grip feat (which make shield bashing have a -2 to hit) or the ability to wield a weapon one size larger with out penalty, and to pay to get the shield modified by an a proper armor smith costing 75 gold. with out this modification you can not wield the shield. Other more restrictive requirements are listed with the appropriate shield below. Thus a goliath with a heavy shield proficiency can wield a large sized heavy shield as an extreme shield with no feather requirements, or if they are proficient with a large extreme shield they may wield it as a tower shield with no feather requirements.

    Larger Shields
    *Bucker: Is treated as light shield for all intents and purposes.
    *Light Shield: Is treated as heavy shield.
    *Heavy Shield: Is treated as a Extreme Shield. On a side note with the monkey grip feat an Extreme Shield does the same damage as a weaponized heavy shield, and still treated as a weapon one size larger for all intents and purposes.
    *Extreme Shields: For all intents and purposed is treated as a tower shield. You are required the ability to wield a larger weapon with no negatives, at the very least, to wield this shield. You may not bash with this shield when it is one size larger.
    *Tower shield: This shield acts in every way like a tower shield, and grants an additional +1 AC, except it simply can not be wielded unless they have the feat "Greater Shield Grip" or the epic feats Wield Oversized Weapon.

    Other Larger Exotic Shield
    *Battle cloak, gnome: You can not properly use a battle cloak made for a different sized wearer.
    *Shield, Gauntlet: You can not properly use a gauntlet shield made for a different sized wearer. However you may get a shield gauntlet made to function like a verson one sized larger. The weight and cost is doubled plus an additional 75 gold. You also require the feat "Greater Shield Grip" or the epic feat "Wield Oversized Weapon" This shield is other wise treated identically to a heavy shield. The Arcane Spell Chance Failure and Armor Check Penalty is not effected.
    *Riders Shield: To wield you still require the exotic feat but is other wise treated identically to a heavy shield.

    Feat

    Greater Shield Grip
    Requirements: Powerful Build, Strength 19, proficiency with a tower shield, or specific exotic shield, and shield specialization "tower shield" or other specific exotic shield.
    Benefit: This feat allows you to wield a larger sized tower shield or specific exotic shield that can use this feat as stated above.
    Special: This feat can be selected as a fighter feat. You may take this feat multiple times but the benefits do not stack. Each time you take this it must apply to a different shield.


    Smaller Shield Use: A shield built for a smaller creature is not as effective as a normal shield of its same type. To use a smaller shield you need to be proficient with how it going to be used but you do not require any special modification.
    *Bucker: Can not be used
    *Light Shield: is identical to and used as a a buckler; you can not shield bash with this shield
    *Heavy Shield: is identical to and used as a light shield
    *Extreme Shields: is identical to and used as a heavy shield;
    *Tower shield: is identical to and used as a extreme shield
    Last edited by Spikes01k; 2007-04-13 at 09:58 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    I have found some extensive rule holes and have, I hope, effectively plugged them. Please help me out and find any other holes I may have misses.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Closet_Skeleton's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Ēast Seaxna rīc
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    I think Races of Stone has "Exotic" Shields and armour.

    With shields, simply going "bigger" isn't really the right option.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

    When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    I think Races of Stone has "Exotic" Shields and armour.

    With shields, simply going "bigger" isn't really the right option.
    Yes, I have that book, that is why I included the extreme shield in my listing. Logically a larger shield on a person should grant more AC, more is covered, just like a heavy shield covers more than a light shield, thus providing more protection.

    If you could give me a suggestion as to your fix, I would like to see it.
    Last edited by Spikes01k; 2007-04-11 at 02:29 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Closet_Skeleton's Avatar

    Join Date
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    Ēast Seaxna rīc
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    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikes01k View Post
    Yes, I have that book, that is why I included the extreme shield in my listing. Logically a larger shield on a person should grant more AC, more is covered, just like a heavy shield covers more than a light shield, thus providing more protection.

    If you could give me a suggestion as to your fix, I would like to see it.
    Logic? You ask to use a shield larger than a tower shield and want to bring logic into it?

    There are larger shields than Extreme shields. They're used to give cover to groups of at least 20 people pushing them along on wheels. The Large shield is already the biggest shield you should expect anyone to have while the Tower Shield is impractical once real combat starts. Making normal sized shields worth more than patches of leather would be fair. Making even bigger shields is expecting characters to be besieging castles in groups of 2000.

    I know it's as fantasy game but look at examples of real shields and then start talking about logic.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

    When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.


  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    larger shield? Why? tower shields are not big enough for you? Who would use a heavy metal shield meant for a gire giant? That is just silly
    My Current Works


    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Ok, you may have a point on being able to use a shield that is larger that a tower shield. If I remove that then what do you think?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    i guess its ok then
    My Current Works


    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    i guess its ok then
    Question though, thinking logically. A shield, how ever awkward in size and shape, made for a larger person would cover a larger area on a smaller person thus providing more AC. Grant it for a tower shield is incredibly difficult to wield as is a large sizer tower shield should be next to impossible to use. However, if a person who could normally use larger size equipment should be able to use any shield as well. Maybe to lessen the effect some what a extra feat be required?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Feb 2006
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    Kanagawa, Japan
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    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Shields aren't just about cover, but yes you are right, theoretically the AC should be relative to the size of the user.

    Small / Light, Large / Heavy and Great are the building blocks of D&D equipment, but they don't map onto sizes quite easily.

    For Medium Characters:

    Small Sized Light Shield: +0 AC (Not Usable)
    Small Sized Heavy Shield: +1 AC (Light)
    Small Sized Great Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)

    Medium Sized Light Shield: +1 AC (Light)
    Medium Sized Heavy Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)
    Medium Sized Great Shield: +4 AC (Two Handed - should be!)

    Large Sized Light Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)
    Large Sized Heavy Shield: +4 AC (Two Handed)
    Large Sized Great Shield: +6* AC (Not Usable)

    * or something
    Last edited by Matthew; 2007-04-13 at 09:04 PM.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Larger Shield Home Rules Patch

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Shields aren't just about cover, but yes you are right, theoretically the AC should be relative to the size of the user.

    Small / Light, Large / Heavy and Great are the building blocks of D&D equipment, but they don't map onto sizes quite easily.

    For Medium Characters:

    Small Light Shield: +0 AC (Not Usable)
    Small Heavy Shield: +1 AC (Light)
    Small Tower Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)

    Medium Light Shield: +1 AC (Light)
    Medium Heavy Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)
    Medium Great Shield: +4 AC (Two Handed - should be!)

    Large Light Shield: +2 AC (One Handed)
    Large Heavy Shield: +4 AC (Two Handed)
    Large Tower Shield: +6* AC (Not Usable)

    * or something
    Addressing smaller shields sounds like a good idea. I have added it to the description.

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