OOTS #979 - The Discussion Thread

[ManuelSacha]

Here's an afterthought.

It's funny... with all the fancy and memorable one-liners in this strip, I find that Crystal's "YOU NEED KILLING!" is the best retort ever, in its brutal simplicity.

[Liliet]

Here's an afterthought.

It's funny... with all the fancy and memorable one-liners in this strip, I find that Crystal's "YOU NEED KILLING!" is the best retort ever, in its brutal simplicity.

Hah. For me Haley's "Yeah, true, but still!" reply beat it in awesomeness by so much I didn't even take note of the original one in itself, but you are right, it's pretty neat!

Of course, the place in my heart now and forever belongs to "A wizard never loses their ticket!"

[banjo1985]

I did not expect Haley to be able to talk her way out of that situation - I assumed Crystal would just be too thick and full of malice. Skillfully done though.

[Reddish Mage]

It occurs to me that this settles the side debate about whether Haley is still using her boots of speed.

Since when was that a side debate?

[Quild]

Since when was that a side debate?

Since she got Bandana's ex armor with different color from her old one while there was no evidence if she had tanned her boots to match or if she was wearing Bandana's ex boots.

[rewinn]

To get the big payoff, Crystal + Haley have to be 1-on-1, but how to get Bandanna offstage without just beating her unconscious or have her fail her self-imposed duty to assist Haley?

"Dang."

Bandanna expresses disappointment that she is unable to continue helping-while-getting-clobbered.

It's a small moment but a good one.

[D.One]

I don't know if anyone commented on this, but I really liked the "shadows" effect of the hasted characters.

I was re-reading the strip and couldn't fail to notice the look on Bozzok's face when Crystal bursts through the wall. He looks like a cheating husband who's about to start saying "Crystal, darling, this is not what it seems..."

[littlebum2002]

That's a risky bet. Not even the Giant can get strip projections right, a habit he mocked when Durkon was getting his tourist visa back in Bleedingham.

Of course, the bonus joke there was that it took a further 90 strips to get them out of the city, not 30.

As a further joke, it was pointed out that Durkon himself was actually only in 30 strips on Bleedingham, thus making his prediction correct. I remember counting that to be actually true, but it's entirely possible I miscounted.

[Yendor]

As a further joke, it was pointed out that Durkon himself was actually only in 30 strips on Bleedingham, thus making his prediction correct. I remember counting that to be actually true, but it's entirely possible I miscounted.

I just counted and got 19, or 20 if you count the strip he gets his papers, so I don't know where that idea came from.

[Elenna]

I don't really understand why the adamantine arrows all missed. I suppose Haley had bad luck on her rolls because Crystal does not seem to have an excessively high AC.

I thought Crystal dodged them? I don't really know how that works in D&D.

[Keltest]

I thought Crystal dodged them? I don't really know how that works in D&D.

Its represented through dexterity bonus to AC. Im going to go out on a limb and say that Rich was not especially concerned with direct mechanical translation of that particular scene.

[Zyzzyva]

Its represented through dexterity bonus to AC. Im going to go out on a limb and say that Rich was not especially concerned with direct mechanical translation of that particular scene.

New question: does the Crystal Golem count as Crystal-with-a-template, or Golem-being-run-by-Crystal?

[Keltest]

New question: does the Crystal Golem count as Crystal-with-a-template, or Golem-being-run-by-Crystal?

Um...

yes.

[Corneel]

Um...

yes.

You mathematician, you.

[Liliet]

New question: does the Crystal Golem count as Crystal-with-a-template, or Golem-being-run-by-Crystal?

That depends on your philosophical perspective on bodies and souls and their relationships.

Although I'd say that if 6 dead bodies were used for creation of this thing then it's Golem-being-run-by-Crystal
also I would say "like hell this isn't necromancy" :\

[Jasdoif]

I find DR and regeneration (Tarquin) quite overpowered in OOTS and can't say if Crystal has more DR than a regular Flesh Golem.

Keep in mind, Haley's bow is +5 icy burst. If Crystal only had DR 5/adamantine, the enhancement bonus to damage would offset the DR and arrows hitting her should have done normal arrow damage. They appear to do no damage, so I think it's reasonable to expect her DR to be higher. And DR tends to be in multiples of 5 in most cases, so Crystal probably has at least DR 10/adamantine....In which case swapping to an adamantine weapon is a good idea.

[Zyzzyva]

That depends on your philosophical perspective on bodies and souls and their relationships.

Although I'd say that if 6 dead bodies were used for creation of this thing then it's Golem-being-run-by-Crystal
also I would say "like hell this isn't necromancy" :\

Who cares about philosophy! I come here for rules arguments.

And it's definitely unclear how many non-Crystal parts are in the Crystal Golem.

[D.One]

And it's definitely unclear how many non-Crystal parts are in the Crystal Golem.

Since it's a golem made of flesh, it's possible that there's little Crystal on it...

[Liliet]

Who cares about philosophy! I come here for rules arguments.

And it's definitely unclear how many non-Crystal parts are in the Crystal Golem.

To me, it's pretty obvious: enough for Resurrection, not enough for Raise Dead.

Also, who cares about rules arguments when you can discuss philosophy???

[Quild]

Keep in mind, Haley's bow is +5 icy burst. If Crystal only had DR 5/adamantine, the enhancement bonus to damage would offset the DR and arrows hitting her should have done normal arrow damage. They appear to do no damage, so I think it's reasonable to expect her DR to be higher. And DR tends to be in multiples of 5 in most cases, so Crystal probably has at least DR 10/adamantine....In which case swapping to an adamantine weapon is a good idea.

Probably but I was unsure if this was a representation of high armor class or DR.
Two arrows are deflected which is quite the effect granted by "protection from arrows" (which should indeed indicate "did hit but didn't pass DR") in some previous occurence and two break on Crystal.

[Hypothetical]

I thought Crystal dodged them? I don't really know how that works in D&D.

I thought it was a case of " I Rolled a FOUR!"

[Jasdoif]

Probably but I was unsure if this was a representation of high armor class or DR.
Two arrows are deflected which is quite the effect granted by "protection from arrows" (which should indeed indicate "did hit but didn't pass DR") in some previous occurence and two break on Crystal.

The odds of a high-level character with a +5 weapon failing to beat AC all four times is quite slim. More importantly, I think Haley would know the difference and that non-epic adamantine arrows wouldn't increase her attack roll.

[Quild]

The odds of a high-level character with a +5 weapon failing to beat AC all four times is quite slim. More importantly, I think Haley would know the difference and that non-epic adamantine arrows wouldn't increase her attack roll.

Well, you quickly have a severe decrease of "hit" in a full attack. And maybe two of these arrows use the same die, I'm not sure about how rogues works.

You're most certainly right, I'm just saying it's not a certitude. Or I'm missing something.

[Metahuman1]

I find DR and regeneration (Tarquin) quite overpowered in OOTS and can't say if Crystal has more DR than a regular Flesh Golem.

Maybe Crystal's knife is large rather than medium, but if medium, it deals:
1d4 + Haley's STR modifier (between 1 and 4) + 4 - Crystal's DR
Which is AT MOST: 1d4+3 if Crystal has only 5 DR like a regular Flesh Golem and Haley has 18-19 STR.

The adamantine dagger on another hand, deals:
1d4 + Haley's STR modifier
It bypass a DR of 20 and we can safely assume Crystal does not have more than 5 DR.
It then deals AT LEAST: 1d4+1 if Haleys has only 13 STR And if the dagger is non magical.
If we suppose the same STR modifier than upside, it's 1d4+4 which is better than 1d4+3! And can be even better if the dagger is magical.

The counterpart for the adamantine dagger is that it should be harder for Haley to hit if it's non magical (she would lose 3 to hit since the dagger is at least masterwork which is a +1 bonus), but flanking bonus is also very powerful in OOTS so Haley and Bandana hits while flanking.

I don't really understand why the adamantine arrows all missed. I suppose Haley had bad luck on her rolls because Crystal does not seem to have an excessively high AC.

I seem to recall that Adamatine weapons get a +2 to hit and damage that specifically overlaps with weapon enchantments in the form of +'s to hit and damage.

[Gnoman]

I seem to recall that Adamatine weapons get a +2 to hit and damage that specifically overlaps with weapon enchantments in the form of +'s to hit and damage.

You're thinking of Drow weapons from the Forgotten Realms setting, which also have the property of losing all their power with exposure to sunlight. Normal weapons that are made of adamantine simply bypass a common form of damage reduction and ignore the Hardness of objects.

[hamishspence]

In 3rd ed, they are always "masterwork" which is a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls (but not damage).

Bonuses of the same type don't stack.

So a nonmagical adamantine sword, and a +1 adamantine sword, both have the same +1 to attack - but the magic sword gets +1 damage as well.

[Quild]

I thought Crystal dodged them? I don't really know how that works in D&D.

In D&D (3.5), you inflict damage (possibly 0 damage, but still) with weapons if your hit score is higher than the opponent's Armor Class.

Hit Score is mostly calculated by:
- A D20 roll (note that a 1 always misses and a 20 always hit)
- Your BAB (Base Attack Bonus) which depend of your/s class/es and level/s.
- Your STR modifier for melee weapons and your DEX modifier for range weapons (except if modified by some feat)
- Size modifier (if the target is bigger than you are, it's easier to hit and you're harder to hit)
- You gain +1 if your weapon is a Masterwork Weapon (good quality) and +x if it's a +x weapon.
- Other modifiers from feats, magic items, spells or skills may apply

Armor Class is mostly calculated by:
- A natural base AC of 10
- Your armor
- DEX modifier (which can be limited by the kind of armor you're wearing)
- Size modifier (same thing than in the Hit Score, but it doesn't count double. You can either consider +1 to AC or -1 to hit for a target one range smaller than you are)
- Other modifiers from feats, magic items, spells or skills may apply

The "Evasion" feat exists and allows to "dodge" an area attack, but I don't think dodge exists otherwise as such. (Uncanny dodge grants bonus to AC, Improved Uncanny Dodge is something else entirely.)

The funny thing here is that Hit Score seems to be something that indicates your aiming as well as your ability to overcome your opponent's armor.
For example, a big slow monster with really really heavy armor is hard to miss, but you won't overcome his AC.
While a nimble little monster would take damage from whatever hit that... hits, but his AC will represent the difficulty to hit him.

That's why the 3 adamantine arrows can show either:
- Unlucky D20 rolls from Haley
- High AC from Crystal

Since none of the first 4 arrows did miss, it probably means as the banana says. We've first seen Crystal's high DR and then a gag of Haley being unlucky. And maybe Crystal doesn't have a really high AC.

[Shining Wrath]

I did think about this! (but wrote about slashing his throat instead bc that sounded like moer fun)
It would make for a pretty great completely silent fighting scene :0


Yes. This will happen. Exactly this.


Oh, this is just one complication of the MANY that arise in this scenario!
And they are all DELICIOUS :3

re: gnomes ...maybe the local clerics are not high enough level for resurrect but enough for raise dead?...

*reassmebles, dusts off, sadly looks at the now gooey floor* thanks

Part of the fluff of liches is their control of lesser undead. While Crystal's not undead per se, if I'm Roy I don't want to take a chance on Xykon or Red Cloak taking control of Crystal in battle.

[Shining Wrath]

I seem to recall that Adamatine weapons get a +2 to hit and damage that specifically overlaps with weapon enchantments in the form of +'s to hit and damage.

No, but they do bypass hardness. They get a +1 to hit by virtue of being masterwork.

This ultrahard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor. Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20. Armor made from adamantine grants its wearer damage reduction of 1/- if it’s light armor, 2/- if it’s medium armor, and 3/- if it’s heavy armor. Adamantine is so costly that weapons and armor made from it are always of masterwork quality; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below. Thus, adamantine weapons and ammunition have a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls, and the armor check penalty of adamantine armor is lessened by 1 compared to ordinary armor of its type. Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not.

Only weapons, armor, and shields normally made of metal can be fashioned from adamantine. Weapons, armor and shields normally made of steel that are made of adamantine have one-third more hit points than normal. Adamantine has 40 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 20.

SRD

[GM_3826]

...Do you think it's possible that after Crystal kills Bozzok she'll go right back to killing Haley?