Rebalance party stats

[Jalil]

So we got through our first session when I realized that 4d6 drop lowest tends to get covered in a type of confection, usually extremely rich and often chocolate flavored. I was thinking of forcing an Elite array on everyone, maybe coming up with some explaination IC, or maybe just an OOC chat. Would this be too harsh, or should I try to suffer through them demolishing the game?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Is it really that bad?
What kind of fudge-related problems do you have?
Have you remembered to give any NPC's with class levels similar stats?

[Bears With Lasers]

Barring remarkably good rolls, 4d6 drop lowest shouldn't provide game-wrecking stats. It'll pretty definitely let people have a 16-18 in their main stat, but that's not so far over 15 that I could see

Most players would react poorly to a "hey, guys--elite array" nerf. Deal with it. Toss slightly tougher challenges at them (more spellcasters?).

I'm not sure why you feel their stats are a problem.

[lord_khaine]

and whats does being covered in fugde mean?

[rollfrenzy]

I think it implies the PC's are "fudging thier rolls" Which is cheating and would definately deserve at least a talking to. Forcing an elite array wouldn't be too harsh a punishment, although just watching the rolls prevents it to begin with.

[kamikasei]

If your players are, in fact, cheating, that's something that needs to be dealt with OOC and at a much higher priority than characters' relative power levels.

As far as balancing the stats, try just going with point buy. Elite array might be a bit harsh, but a 25- or even 28-point buy would give them some control while leaving them at "expected" power levels.

But, again: if the players are cheating, deal with that out of game. It's a much more basic problem than any balance concern.

[Jannex]

As others have said, I'd recommend either watching your players' die rolls, or switching to point-buy.

[Indon]

Yeah, I used to have to watch certain players I DM'ed like a hawk when they rolled stats; nowadays, I'm just happy for point buy because you won't end up with the inevitably lucky fellow with 3 18's and the poor guy with 3 10's.

[TomTheRat]

I actually had that happen in a game I ran. The player with the 3 18s was nice enough to offer to give one of his 18s to the guy with the 3 10s. I like point buy or array just because its fair for all the players.

[Deepblue706]

Point Buy is the fairest, but I have more fun rolling. Even if I do always ending up being the guy with three 10s, and my highest stat is a 15, and everyone else I play with has at least three stats above 16...and complain about having have one 8...and their stats equal a point-buy value of over 40...and mine comes out to be a 26...

*continues to mutter about hating to play with dorkwads IRL*

[Matthew]

Try using a minimum and maximum Attribute Bonus Total, something like a minimum of +3 and a maximum of +12. If the problem is that your players are cheating, make the first session a Character Building session and have everybody roll on the PHB (any dice that fall off are rerolled). Be strict.

[Devils_Advocate]

Yeah, the Elite array is fairly sucky. Underpowered compared to most 4d6 drop lowest results, and none of the flexibility of point buy. 25 point buy would be kinder, but despite that being the recommended standard, almost no one seems to play with less than 28 points (or at least that's the impression I get), and it still tends to be worse than rolling, I think. 28 point buy provides a pretty good level of power and flexibility without being overpowering.

So you could ask your players if they'd be willing to go with that. Still, if they all decide that they'd strongly prefer to keep the stats that they have now... well, you might be better off just ramping up the challenges or something. If all of the players want things the way they are now, the only reason to change things is if you strongly dislike their current stats and feel that they inhibit your enjoyment of the game. I mean, I can understand reluctance to even implicitly condone obvious cheating, but... why create unnecessary conflict, y'know?

[Flawless]

Or you could give them a different fixed array, like say 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8 for higher powered games.

[LotharBot]

My rolling rules:

1) all dice are on the table and land flat. Crooked dice, dice on the floor, dice I can't see, etc. get rerolled.
2) if you're rolling one die and it hits the table, that's your roll, period. "It slipped" doesn't cut it.
3) if you're rolling multiple dice and one slips out, you pick it back up, period. No checking to see if it's a six first.

For character stats in particular, consider this alternative I just made up:
1) each character rolls according to the standard method, and writes out their resulting rolls on a whiteboard or something
2) the DM can, at their option, eliminate any absurd set of rolls from consideration ("18-18-17-16-14-12? Um, no.")
3) Everyone gets to pick their stats from those left on the board. It's OK if everyone picks the same set of stats. If someone picks a totally awful set that's their fault. There should be at least one set of stats to please any not-totally-twinky player.

The best thing about this method, IMO, is that it allows your players to all have similar power levels while still getting interesting stats.

[TRM]

My rolling rules:



For character stats in particular, consider this alternative I just made up:
1) each character rolls according to the standard method, and writes out their resulting rolls on a whiteboard or something
2) the DM can, at their option, eliminate any absurd set of rolls from consideration ("18-18-17-16-14-12? Um, no.")
3) Everyone gets to pick their stats from those left on the board. It's OK if everyone picks the same set of stats. If someone picks a totally awful set that's their fault. There should be at least one set of stats to please any not-totally-twinky player.

The best thing about this method, IMO, is that it allows your players to all have similar power levels while still getting interesting stats.

That's a great idea. I'm trying that in my next game (unless, of course, you mind).

[Devils_Advocate]

For character stats in particular, consider this alternative I just made up:
1) each character rolls according to the standard method, and writes out their resulting rolls on a whiteboard or something
2) the DM can, at their option, eliminate any absurd set of rolls from consideration ("18-18-17-16-14-12? Um, no.")
3) Everyone gets to pick their stats from those left on the board. It's OK if everyone picks the same set of stats. If someone picks a totally awful set that's their fault. There should be at least one set of stats to please any not-totally-twinky player.

The best thing about this method, IMO, is that it allows your players to all have similar power levels while still getting interesting stats.

Ooh, I like that! It combines the randomness of dice rolling with the fairness of all players having the same options. It tends to allow for a variety of builds (though with a small group, you might want to let each player roll twice), while at the same time making each campaign just a tad mechanically distinctive, especially if the DM selects from the same arrays when creating powerful NPCs.

Neat!