Magic Shields

[JellyPooga]

O.k. so I'm a little puzzled about how enchanting a shield works.

1)You can add an Enhancement to the Shield Bonus to AC and the Shield special qualities all work off of the Armour Prices (i.e. 1000 for a +1 equivalent, 4000 for +2, etc.)

2)You can also enchant a shield as a weapon, giving it an Enhancement to attack and damage when shield bashing and give it weapon special qualities (e.g. Flaming). Presumably these are priced as a weapon (2000 for +1, 8000 for +2, etc.)

3)Presumably these are exclusive, so to enchant a Shield to have a +1 Enhancement to AC, Attack and Damage would cost 3000 + the cost of the shield (1000 for armour enhancement + 2000 for the weapon enhancement)

The above is correct? If it is, I have a couple of questions:

A) How does this work in respect to maximum enhancement? Armour may be enchanted to have a maximum of +10 equivalent Enhancement (pre-epic) and Weapons may do the same. Does this mean that a Shield can have +10 worth of armour enchantments AND +10 worth of weapon enchantments? Or is it +10 total (+5 Armour and +5 Weapon, for example)?

B) How does this work in relation to the 'Bashing' Shield special quality? The Bashing quality makes the shield 2 sizes larger for damage purposes and grants a +1 enhancement to attack and damage. If you wanted to improve that enhancement to +2, how does it work? Would you have to pay 8000 worth of Weapon enchantment (the price to enchant to +2) OR would you only have to pay 6000 (the difference between +1 and +2)? Also, does the +1 granted by the Bashing quality count as the +1 required to give it a special Weapon quality such as flaming?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The above is correct?

Yes.

A) How does this work in respect to maximum enhancement? Armour may be enchanted to have a maximum of +10 equivalent Enhancement (pre-epic) and Weapons may do the same. Does this mean that a Shield can have +10 worth of armour enchantments AND +10 worth of weapon enchantments? Or is it +10 total (+5 Armour and +5 Weapon, for example)?

They can have both.

B) How does this work in relation to the 'Bashing' Shield special quality? The Bashing quality makes the shield 2 sizes larger for damage purposes and grants a +1 enhancement to attack and damage. If you wanted to improve that enhancement to +2, how does it work? Would you have to pay 8000 worth of Weapon enchantment (the price to enchant to +2) OR would you only have to pay 6000 (the difference between +1 and +2)? Also, does the +1 granted by the Bashing quality count as the +1 required to give it a special Weapon quality such as flaming?

You pay the full price of a +2 enhancement (8000 GP), since the bashing does not grant an actual Weapon enhancement, it just acts as such.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

A) I do believe they would be counted separately. You could conceivably have +10 worth of armor benefits as well as +10 worth of weapon benefits. However, the 200,000 gp limit for determining when an item goes epic would remain in play. Conveniently enough, two +10 sets of benefits costs exactly 200,000 gp.

Not sure if the 150+ gp for the masterwork shield counts against it, though.

B) I have no idea.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Not sure if the 150+ gp for the masterwork shield counts against it, though.

Magic Item Compendium clarifies that the base cost of the MW item (including special materials) is not taken into account.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

[Aerlock]

Conveniently enough, two +10 sets of benefits costs exactly 200,000 gp.

2 +10 sets of Armor enchantments costs 200,000gp. To enchant a shield as a +10 equivalent piece of armor as well as a +10 equivalent weapon would cost you 300,000gp.

So you could enchant it as a +10 equivalent piece of armor and a +5 equivalent weapon for less than 200,000gp, as a +10 equivalent weapon, or some combination in between.

Aerlock

[Raum]

Why would the armor and weapon bonuses count separately for maximum bonus allowed? Per the SRD:

Shields

Shield enhancement bonuses stack with armor enhancement bonuses. Shield enhancement bonuses do not act as attack or damage bonuses when the shield is used in a bash. The bashing special ability, however, does grant a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC.

As with armor, special abilities built into the shield add to the market value in the form of additions to the bonus of the shield, although they do not improve AC. A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

The way it states armor and weapon enhancement bonuses are added and then goes on to say there's a maximum "enhancement bonus" (not maximum armor enhancement bonus) leads me to believe the +10 maximum is an aggregate.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

2 +10 sets of Armor enchantments costs 200,000gp. To enchant a shield as a +10 equivalent piece of armor as well as a +10 equivalent weapon would cost you 300,000gp.

BLAARRGG!

Yeah. Thanks. Brain was on vacation this morning.

[Toliudar]

Why would the armor and weapon bonuses count separately for maximum bonus allowed? Per the SRD: The way it states armor and weapon enhancement bonuses are added and then goes on to say there's a maximum "enhancement bonus" (not maximum armor enhancement bonus) leads me to believe the +10 maximum is an aggregate.

All it says is that you add the cost of enchanting the shield as a weapon to the cost of enchanting the shield. It doesn't say that you add the desired bonuses together when determining the cost. This strikes me as particularly punitive for what is already a fairly costly combat option.

OP:

Because improving a "bashing" ability beyond +1 would effectively remove the need to enchant a shield-as-weapon at all, I'd suggest that you'd need to make it about as expensive. Perhaps an "improved bashing" ability could increase a shield's cost by +2, and give +2 to attacks and damage. If you assume a +1 shield to start with, that's an incremental cost of +5,000gp, versus a separate enchanting that makes it a +2 weapon for +8,000gp.

[Raum]

All it says is that you add the cost of enchanting the shield as a weapon to the cost of enchanting the shield. It doesn't say that you add the desired bonuses together when determining the cost. This strikes me as particularly punitive for what is already a fairly costly combat option.

Actually, it states "A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10." It doesn't differentiate between weapon bonuses and armor bonuses. It simply says you can't have a total bonus higher than +10.

I haven't seen any reference indicating you'd track them separately. Not that you can't house rule it if you want.

[Matthew]

That's why you enchant the Shield as Armour and Shield Spikes as Weapon...

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I find it very reasonable to treat them as two separate items fro the purpose of determining if it is an epic item, just like you do with a double weapon.

[Raum]

I find it very reasonable to treat them as two separate items fro the purpose of determining if it is an epic item, just like you do with a double weapon.

Agreed. There are a number of reasonable house rules. That doesn't make it RAW.

As far as I can tell, Matthew's method is RAW though. Shield spikes are purchased separately and enchanted separately.