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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Welcome to the third (continual) thread about the webcomic El Goonish Shive!

    For the new readers, El Goonish Shive is a long-running plot-and-character-driven action-dramedy with elements of teen life, magical kung fu, gender-switching and all-around silly stuff happening. The art has also undergone a massive improvement since the beginning, so don't be too off put by the dramatic difference in quality at the start. It also shifts between "grey-scale" and colour.

    Right now, Immortals granting weapon-grade magic to teens and awkward mall dates! Simultaneously!

    Previous threads:
    El Goonish Shive (2009)
    El Goonish Shive (2010)
    El Goonish Shive (2011-2012)
    El Goonish Shive (2013 ->)
    El Goonish Shive II - I stand by my ridiculous comic
    Last edited by Weimann; 2015-04-23 at 01:56 AM.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Ashley's clarification: I guess I understand where she's coming from. Nice to get specifics about Ellen too.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    It's indeed neat that the comic shows two people of differing opinions (Ashley and Tedd) both having developed reasoning being their opinions and not taking a stance for either. Classy there, Dan.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I don't get Ashley's point. Like, at all. Then again, my field is literally based on precisely defining things.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    The same word has different meanings to different people. If I say 'blue', you and I will think of different shades (or maybe you'll think of the emotion sad, or that annoying earworm Eiffel 65 song, or something else) - but if I show you a blue panel, even if it doesn't look the same to you as it does to me, we're looking at the same thing.

    Ashley would rather show you what she is then tell you what she is and have you interpret it in some other way. Even if what you see when she shows you isn't what she sees, at least you're seeing what she's thinking of.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavelcade View Post
    The same word has different meanings to different people. If I say 'blue', you and I will think of different shades (or maybe you'll think of the emotion sad, or that annoying earworm Eiffel 65 song, or something else) - but if I show you a blue panel, even if it doesn't look the same to you as it does to me, we're looking at the same thing.

    Ashley would rather show you what she is then tell you what she is and have you interpret it in some other way. Even if what you see when she shows you isn't what she sees, at least you're seeing what she's thinking of.
    Which to me is basically saying "we shouldn't talk because there might be misunderstandings", which is dumb.

    Oh no, somebody might not understand the above hyperbole perfectly as I want him to, I should just shut up and not discuss the point!
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    It's indeed neat that the comic shows two people of differing opinions (Ashley and Tedd) both having developed reasoning being their opinions and not taking a stance for either. Classy there, Dan.
    What's Tedd's opinion about this? I'm confused?

    Unless you're talking about his reaction to Gender Fluidity having a name, but that's an entirely different circumstance so it can't really be compared.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I think what she's trying to avoid is being identified as part of a group about whom there is a view about what they are that she doesn't feel comfortable having assigned to her. Saying "I'm attracted to both gals and guys" is a statement purely about the individual's preferences, saying "I'm bisexual" identifies you with others who call themselves that. You can't necessarily stop someone conflating the two sentences, but you can try and get yourself separated from the group, if you don't want them to immediately jump to whatever society's idea of that group is.

    I probably wouldn't do it, personally, because I find it useful to use these labels. I have no problem calling myself a nerd, but I wouldn't fault someone for wanting to distinguish themselves from the group:nerd if they didn't feel society's idea of group:nerd defined them in a useful way.

    Edit: Is the Tedd situation different? To me it does seem like one of the best examples in the comic of both sides of an issue having a proponent (Tedd: labels = good because I can identify with a group, Ashley: labels = bad because I don't want to) with Ellen being in the middle of the spectrum.
    Last edited by Cavelcade; 2015-04-23 at 08:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    The irony comes in when we use "Orcs are a metaphor for human savagery" to rationalize human savagery.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    She's actually pretty reasonable with her issues here. It's not so much the base concept of "bisexual" as in "being potentially attracted to both sexes", as it is about all the rest of concepts people attribute to the term that don't really have anything to do with the core concept. I can't say I agree with her, mostly because I'm of the camp of using words in their "proper" meaning and explaining that they mean more than that meaning*, but I can understand where she's coming from and that's a pretty reasonable place. That, and well, I don't find broad and light labels to not be so bad, as long as people using them remember what the label means, instead of just throwing everything they want at it, plus that most of the time, it's simply not their business what other people are.

    Or rather, saying that someone is bisexual is less of a mouthful than saying that someone is attracted to both women and men, and indeed, neither are other people's business unless the person in question wants them to know, say, because they said person is looking for a partner and do want to let people of both sexes know that they might be interested in them.

    But anyway, I'll stop here, before this becomes a rant about personal preferences and how no one has a duty to be attracted to anyone else, and back at Ash: And most of all, I found that she responds to Elliot's in a very reasonable manner.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I would say that her point is reasonable in that she doesn't want any assumptions made about her. If you tell people what you are using labels, they usually have some assumptions attached to that label. If you show people who you are, they do not have these assumptions.

    In other news, do people think that Ashley will end up dying her hair blonde? It's funny reading Dan's rants about how much of a pain her hair is to shade, so I wonder if he is going to change it after this arc.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavelcade View Post
    Edit: Is the Tedd situation different? To me it does seem like one of the best examples in the comic of both sides of an issue having a proponent (Tedd: labels = good because I can identify with a group, Ashley: labels = bad because I don't want to) with Ellen being in the middle of the spectrum.
    Let's say that you've spent most of your life knowing you were different:Maybe it's all the time, maybe it's just some times, but there are times when it feels like you are legitimately in the wrong body.

    You find out that there's an entire group of people like you, that there's a term that describes exactly how you feel about yourself.

    The relief would be palpable.

    If I'm grokking it right, which I might not be, in Ashley's case it's about society at large putting labels on people-and then you have to conform to that label.

    Let me use an example my Soc professor used-If a man is only sexually attracted to other men but of his own free will remains Abstinent his entire life, not because he thinks being homosexual is wrong but because he genuinely isn't interested in sex, is that man "gay"?

    Bisexual is a vaguely defined term that means different things to different people, so using it as a label means it won't fit just right all of the time.

    Gender fluid, on the other hand, isn't society's label, it's a label for people who are at an inbetween point in their gender identity-sometimes they feel like they're the correct biological sex, sometimes they feel they're the wrong one, and sometimes they feel like they're somewhere in between. That is a label that perfectly describes Tedd's situation.

    So basically it' the exact opposite situation Ashley dislikes the "bisexual" label because it's too broad and doesn't fit exactly. Tedd likes the "gendered fluid" label because it describes his situation perfectly and lets him know that he's not a freak off all on his lonesome to suffer by himself for all eternity.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Ashley is pretty reasonable about her stance but I still think decrying labels in general is pretty silly. They're just names for things to make communication about concepts easier.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Ashley simply doesn't truck with being compartmentalized, classified, and labeled. She is Ashley. All those things are part of her, but none of them define her.

    She reminds me of the Sten, from Dragon Age Origins, who amusingly claimed that you couldn't simply define the elven race as 'a lithe, pointy-eared people who excel at poverty'. A fairly accurate definition, to be fair, but so dilute and generalized that it loses all meaning. In classification, you stereotype. In labeling, you gloss over what's unique in favor of what's common. She is Ashley, and to classify her as anything is to make her less than what she is.

    It's a mindset I can appreciate.

    Tedd feels isolated and alone. His father openly disapproves of his tendency to change genders on a whim. Nobody else seems all that interested in the same things he is (or at least not to the extent). He has nothing to connect to, so he feels like a freak and a weirdo. Place a label on him, 'gender fluid', and suddenly he has a place in existence. He's not an anomaly, he's a rarity. He's part of the world, not some bizarre exception to it. Now he is not alone - even if he doesn't know anyone else who shares the classification, it's a place he fits.

    It's a mindset I can appreciate.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I wouldn't say Tedd and Ashley have different attitudes, necessarily. "The word simply EXISTING was a big deal to me when I was younger" sounds a lot like Tedd's "There is a word for it"

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Speaking as someone who both enjoys etymology and exacting measurements Ashleys stance seems silly. I can understand not wanting to be treated as a label and I can certainly understand wanting to avoid connotations however communication requires the use of labels as approximations, otherwise we all end up speaking Entish and taking a few years to introduce someone.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    My understanding of Ashley's stance is thus: this particular label trails way too much unnecessary baggage. It probably felt as being treated as an inhabitant of Planet of Hats - all your personality defined by one particular trait and a tonne of assumptions associated with it. In essence, she simply wants to avoid stereotyping, which honestly happens way too often - especially with labels that are in a widespread use.

    As for the overall need for words, in the case of sexual or romantic preferences, everything that actually matters can be communicated with those simple words: I like you.

    Describing personal identity might need more nuances, but sometimes I feel that there is no need to make labyrinths out of simple matters.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I really like El Goonish Shive. It started out not good, but through the concerted effort of the author, it is now what anyone with reasonable standards would call a Good Webcomic. Dan Shive is an inspiration to me.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    *snip for*
    It's a mindset I can appreciate. X2 Combo
    As someone who has high functioning autism, allow to me weigh in on this.

    I actually identify and agree with both Tedd AND Ashley. Because I found that in my experiences with having high functioning autism, I want both things: to have a group that I can identify with but at the same doesn't entirely define me.

    Identity is not a simple thing that can be expressed purely in labels and words. On one hand, having a word for certain aspect of you is needed for good communication and to help yourself define that part of you, on the other hand, being JUST the label isn't really being you. You are bigger than any label anyone can put on you. A big part of learning about high-functioning autism for me- and probably a big part of learning identity for everyone- is knowing that a part of you, isn't ALL of you. That you are more than can be simply boringly defined, and thats ok! More than ok, thats beautiful. Indescribably, fascinatingly, wondrously beautiful.

    I'm not autistic, I'm a person first, who has the trait of high-functioning autism. I identify with that yes, and it is true that I am part of the group in a way. However that does not define me. There is so much more than just that. A big part of individuality is knowing that the smaller definable parts of you add up to something undefinable but beautiful. I don't care how much you want me precisely defined, you can write book after book of biographies on a single person detailing their entire life in as much detail as possible, and you still won't capture them in full.

    Really, I can tell you from my own experience that Tedd and Ashley are not all that different, they are on the same continuum- figuring out their identity. I'm thinking both Tedd and Ashley had no idea what to call what they were feeling before the words and it caused no amount of uncertainty of who or what they were, because they didn't know. Once they knew, it allowed them strength- strength enough to say "thats only a part of me". Its defining a piece of the puzzle of you, not all of it. Tedd, I'm pretty sure would him/herself argue that they are more than just gender-fluid: they are one who does science experiments with transformation technology, someone who is boy/girlfriend to Grace, someone who likes intellectual challenges, someone who likes nerdy interests, someone who likes playing videogames with Elliot, things like that.

    Identity is a bunch of easily definable puzzle pieces that fit together into something we cannot fully see, a shape we cannot describe. And because of that, it is wondrous beyond compare.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mormegil View Post
    I don't get Ashley's point. Like, at all. Then again, my field is literally based on precisely defining things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnoc View Post
    Speaking as someone who both enjoys etymology and exacting measurements Ashleys stance seems silly. I can understand not wanting to be treated as a label and I can certainly understand wanting to avoid connotations however communication requires the use of labels as approximations, otherwise we all end up speaking Entish and taking a few years to introduce someone.
    If I may, let me give both of you a semi-related example from my own past. I'll be a little vague with the particulars due to board rules, but hopefully the message will go through.

    Some time back, I was working with a bunch of USA Americans, and I revealed in conversation that I was religious, which in my country is as minor a characteristic as saying I enjoy going to sporting events. They immediately assumed and ascribed to me a bunch of political, philosophical and even scientific positions based on this revelation that were so completely off the mark I actually did a double take*. Then it happened again, with a different bunch of USA Americans. And then a third time. Suffice to say that I have stopped actually applying the label of "religious" to myself when in the presence of USA Americans. Can you see why?

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    If I may, let me give both of you a semi-related example from my own past. I'll be a little vague with the particulars due to board rules, but hopefully the message will go through.

    Some time back, I was working with a bunch of USA Americans, and I revealed in conversation that I was religious, which in my country is as minor a characteristic as saying I enjoy going to sporting events. They immediately assumed and ascribed to me a bunch of political, philosophical and even scientific positions based on this revelation that were so completely off the mark I actually did a double take*. Then it happened again, with a different bunch of USA Americans. And then a third time. Suffice to say that I have stopped actually applying the label of "religious" to myself when in the presence of USA Americans. Can you see why?

    Yours,

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    *I have since educated myself and know where they were coming from, but I was not aware at the time-
    I guess?

    I don't know, I think the fact that you are religious (as in "you have property A") is something people should take into consideration when assessing you. If the vast majority of religious people also have properties B, C and D, it is actually accurate to assume that you have those properties too until proven otherwise. If you see a guy with a long beard sleeping in a park under old papers, you will think he's a homeless man, very poor, stinky and may be involved in little crimes and drugs. You are likely to be correct, and approaching this person with different preconceptions is wrong and could result in serious problems. If an orc approaches you with an axe in hand, you should probably run - not stereotyping could cost your life (that's fantasy, and as such is an extreme example).

    As for the fact that people don't want "in" in certain groups given the implications is something I also find dumb. Statistically, some people are total ****wads. They are likely to be part of every group. They are likely to be easily singled out by anyone opposing that group. If your reaction to this is saying "the group is wrong", if everyone that is not a total ****wad just abandons ship and leaves only the bad apples in, the group WILL become doomed. This is the reason only vanilla groups based on majority opinions usually stick together, and why "balanced" positions are so dominant (actually, that's mostly game theory, but eh). This is also how we lose words and, alongside them, concepts. If you want a recent example, look at feminism and MRAs.

    I am feminist. Ashley is bisexual. If you have assumptions about us because of that, good for you, it means you can think. What's wrong is when you don't try to modify your assumptions once you get more data.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    I totally understand Grey Wolf. I've had similar issues. In the past, when invited someplace where food will be served, I warned people "I'm vegetarian". People assumed many things about me and often became aggressive off the bat. I'm still not sure exactly what that was about, but nowadays I say "I don't eat meat" with is pretty much the exact definition, and therefore the very same thing, yet people act completely differently. Somehow, they understand that not eating meat can have many causes, but only if you don't call it vegetarian.

    Sometimes I say "I don't eat animals" because some people think fish isn't meat (which confuses me too).

    In other words, sometimes if you use specific words you'll have to deal with everyone's misinterpretations and then prove those assumptions wrong (assumptions that, you say, they are right to make). Better to use phrasing that doesn't cause them to form those assumptions in the first place, though.

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Ah wow... Sarah's spell can make people act in separately from her... with a basic AI... Wow thats a really abusable spell. I wonder if they "Know" things that they know in reality. Like if a guard knew a password would Sarah be able to go into the simulation and make him tell her it?

    I am going to assume no but I can see decent arguments for it... Still that power has all kinds of abuse potential...
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mormegil View Post
    I guess?

    I don't know, I think the fact that you are religious (as in "you have property A") is something people should take into consideration when assessing you. If the vast majority of religious people also have properties B, C and D, it is actually accurate to assume that you have those properties too until proven otherwise. If you see a guy with a long beard sleeping in a park under old papers, you will think he's a homeless man, very poor, stinky and may be involved in little crimes and drugs. You are likely to be correct, and approaching this person with different preconceptions is wrong and could result in serious problems. If an orc approaches you with an axe in hand, you should probably run - not stereotyping could cost your life (that's fantasy, and as such is an extreme example).
    I feel like you're completely missing the point Grey_Wolf is trying to make here. I don't want to speak on his behalf (because, to be honest, Grey_Wolf is the person on this forum I think best capable of carrying on a debate on their own) but I believe the point he was trying to make is that because that label had such vastly different meanings where he comes from in comparison to where the USA came from, it actively became negative in how useful it was in describing him. And in general that's probably true of all labels - some people are more concerned with being properly understood and are willing to spend the extra time to make sure their views are not misconstrued, while some people are indifferent to it. It's all just lines in the sand with regard to where you stand on the issue, so I don't see any stance as being objectively superior, just a preference.

    And if Sarah can make people act as if they had autonomy, I see no reason she can't do the same with PCs. Although it might result in an inaccurate result from the PC? Interesting thought.
    Last edited by Cavelcade; 2015-04-24 at 02:58 AM.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavelcade View Post
    And if Sarah can make people act as if they had autonomy, I see no reason she can't do the same with PCs. Although it might result in an inaccurate result from the PC? Interesting thought.
    Making a person or PC act in the simulation does not necessarily imply having access to the person's memories or PC's data. We know she could, say, have a simulated person do a backflip, but not whether she could have that same person tell her his passwords. Similarly, she might be able to have a PC display an image of a forest that she imagines, but not the contents of its Documents folder.

    Or she could do all of those things, we don't actually know yet.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    Making a person or PC act in the simulation does not necessarily imply having access to the person's memories or PC's data. We know she could, say, have a simulated person do a backflip, but not whether she could have that same person tell her his passwords. Similarly, she might be able to have a PC display an image of a forest that she imagines, but not the contents of its Documents folder.

    Or she could do all of those things, we don't actually know yet.
    Ya too many variables in this spell to say for 100% certain.

    My personal guess is that she can access the computer fine (Internet won't work but anything locally on the computer would be accessible) and not be able to control people into telling her things.

    Thats just my guess though I could see it going either way.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva Stormrage View Post
    Ah wow... Sarah's spell can make people act in separately from her... with a basic AI... Wow thats a really abusable spell. I wonder if they "Know" things that they know in reality. Like if a guard knew a password would Sarah be able to go into the simulation and make him tell her it?
    Between "illusion of autonomy" and "diminish the accuracy", I'm inclined to guess no(or at least, not reliably).

    'Course, between those there's enough wiggle room for Dan to say whatever he wants works or doesn't, so who knows?

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mormegil View Post
    I don't know, I think the fact that you are religious (as in "you have property A") is something people should take into consideration when assessing you. If the vast majority of religious people also have properties B, C and D, it is actually accurate to assume that you have those properties too until proven otherwise.
    Which was precisely my point: the vast majority of religious people do NOT also have the properties B, C and D that those USA Americans estadounidenses ascribed to me. My particular religion (like almost all religions) has order of magnitude more adherents outside the US than inside, and yet those USA Americans estadounidenses assume that all religious people are like USA American estadounidense religious people (without even going into "do characteristics B, C and D even appear in the vast majority of USA American estadounidense religious?" question, btw, which I'm doubtful of but am not qualified to state).

    In fact, there is a word for what you are doing (ascribing a member of a group characteristics you assume all members of the group has). It is not a nice word, and it is especially famous when it comes to those assumptions based on skin colour. So do tell, what is the practical difference between assuming that all members of religion X have properties B, C and D, and assuming that all members of race X have properties E, F and G? E.g. was the person that assumed that Ashley should learn English correct in his assumption, in your eyes, since the "vast majority" (to use your own words) of Asian people can't speak English?

    Edit: Forgot my conclusion: IMnpHO, the correct response to a label is to only ascribe the characteristics necessarily shared by the entire group. Whether the vast majority, or hell even 99.9% of all its members also have properties B, C and D is irrelevant. Do not make assumptions: this person in front of you might be the 0.01%.

    Edit 2: since English somehow lacks the proper word that uniquely identifies USA-ers, I went ahead and borrowed one from Spanish.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2015-04-24 at 08:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Which was precisely my point: the vast majority of religious people do NOT also have the properties B, C and D that those USA Americans ascribed to me. My particular religion (like almost all religions) has order of magnitude more adherents outside the US than inside, and yet those USA Americans assume that all religious people are like USA American religious people (without even going into "do characteristics B, C and D even appear in the vast majority of USA American religious?" question, btw, which I'm doubtful off but am not qualified to state).

    In fact, there is a word for what you are doing (ascribing a member of a group characteristics you assume all members of the group has). It is not a nice word, and it is especially famous when it comes to those assumptions based on skin colour. So do tell, what is the practical difference between assuming that all members of religion X have properties B, C and D, and assuming that all members of race X have properties E, F and G? E.g. was the person that assumed that Ashley should learn English correct in his assumption, in your eyes, since the "vast majority" (to use your own words) of Asian people can't speak English?

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    As opposed to what, Canada Americans? USA Americans is not a proper descriptor. It's like saying Germany Germans.


    The word is stereotyping and Mormegil already used that.
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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by memnarch View Post
    As opposed to what, Canada Americans? USA Americans is not a proper descriptor. It's like saying Germany Germans.


    The word is stereotyping and Mormegil already used that.
    False. The Mexicans are quite correct when they state that they are as American as people who live in the USA. Edit: and for that matter, so are Argentinians. There is no non-confusing USA patronymic, so you get a clarification. It is not like saying Germany Germans, it's like saying Germany Europeans, if "German" didn't exist. Or, to grab a real example, "Germany Dutch" to talk about the Pennsylvania Dutch immigrants to the USA.

    Edit: reading a bit more on the topic of Mexican's trying to reclain the term American to mean everyone from the American continent, I have come across a word that means "person from the United States of America": estadounidense. I'll go ahead and replace that in my post above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    False. The Mexicans are quite correct when they state that they are as American as people who live in the USA. Edit: and for that matter, so are Argentinians. There is no non-confusing USA patronymic, so you get a clarification. It is not like saying Germany Germans, it's like saying Germany Europeans, if "German" didn't exist. Or, to grab a real example, "Germany Dutch" to talk about the Pennsylvania Dutch immigrants to the USA.

    Edit: reading a bit more on the topic of Mexican's trying to reclain the term American to mean everyone from the American continent, I have come across a word that means "person from the United States of America": estadounidense. I'll go ahead and replace that in my post above.

    GW
    Germany Germans?

    Using English the way I do, that would be German Germans. Not that it's not still silly, it's just correctly silly now.

    I have used "USAians" to refer to people from the USA before now, I think something like it is needed. It seems to me that there are two American continents connected by a landbridge. In my opinion they are not one continent, there is a landbridge, but there is a wider landbridge connecting Africa to Eurasia, and the difference between Europe and Asia is just how far West/North East/South you are.
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