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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground


    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy the Dark Vengeance starter box.

    What's Dark Vengeance?
    Dark Vengeance contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    It contains roughly 850 Points worth of Dark Angels. However, it only contains around 500 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Of course, if you're playing DV as it's meant to be played, you're never using all of the models at once so the points difference doesn't really matter.

    However, in practical terms, the Dark Angels are only barely legal and lack enough Scoring models. And, while the CSMs are legal, they're almost 300 points behind and lack anything that packs a decent punch. You will also need the relevant Codecies for your faction as it will dramatically change the way you play the game as opposed to using the reference sheets that come with DV.

    How much does it cost?
    The Dark Vengeance box, one Codex, one other box of your choosing, and a Starter Paint Set costs you about the same as a Playstation 3 and one game*. In both cases, you'd be good to go for about a month. This author thinks of most boxes as console games, and Flyers and Land Raiders are the AAA-Title Collector's Edition game. The difference being that in this hobby you can use all your 'games' at the same time, and continuously.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    *Priced in $AU where everything is more expensive - although the ratios should be the same.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army.
    Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    There are ways that you can play 200, 400 and 500 point games using altered rules. But, if you want to play the game as-is, the recommended minimum is 750.

    The game 'balances out' at 1500. Most games should be played at this level since pretty much all armies get a fair shake.

    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1250 with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Up to 12 pieces is the official word. However, that can get crowded pretty fast if you've got big pieces.

    A better guide is roughly anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board.

    I don't like using Special Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Special Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Special Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Special Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    This guide is very rough. But should provide you with at least a starting direction.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Which army is the best?
    That's a loaded question. It depends what points limit you're playing at (at 1500 there really isn't one). But, there is no 'best' army. Plasma beats Terminators beats Mech beats Plasma. 40K is much like Rock, Paper, Scissors. None of the armies are 'best', as each army can be countered. Some armies are better than others, but there is no 'best'.

    However, as you play the game you will notice that your Codex doesn't have the units that beat another Codex. That's not to say that you haven't won any games, and it's not to say that your opponents' armies haven't lost several games to armies that just aren't yours. It just means that your army can't beat your opponent's army with what you've got available to you. That's why Allies need to be in the game.

    Wait, so there are bad Codecies?
    Yes. But, every Codex should be usable between 1000-1500 points. So, no matter what army you pick, you'll be okay within those points limits, or, you should be. If you find that your Codex/Army isn't doing well against certain opponents, and there's nothing you can do; You may need Allies.

    Helpful Army Building Guides
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    Previous Threads


    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2015-07-12 at 07:20 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tide and 'Hann

    Ah, that new thread smell.

    Seeing as I no longer have to worry about this getting forgotten in the thread transfer, I'm going to be taking part in a 5v5 game on Sunday. 2000 points per player and several people are bringing superheavies like titans and shadowswords. Last time I brought along my Knight, which did bugger all, but this time I'm going to be trying out my Daemonkin in a bigger fight than normal so I'm leaving the knight at home. I'm not too concerned about the enemy superheavies as my team includes a couple of warhounds and a couple of lord of skulls, so I'll be spending my time hunting warlords, claiming objectives and trying to keep enemy anti-tank from killing my team's heavies.

    I've not got a lot of models to change the list out with, but I can do a little switching out of stuff, so I'm looking for feedback on my list.

    Spoiler: Army list
    Show
    Slaughtercult

    Daemon Prince: Daemonic Flight/Blood Forged Armour - 250

    Berzerkers: Icon/Lightning Claw/Meltabombs/Rhino - 232

    Berzerkers: Icon/Lightning Claw/Meltabombs/Rhino - 232

    Possessed - 150

    Cultists - 58

    Cultists - 58

    Chaos Spawn: +3 Spawn - 128

    Land Raider - 230

    Maulerfiend - 130

    Maulerfiend - 130

    Soul Grinder - 135

    Lord of Slaughter

    Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage - 275

    Total - 1998


    The enemy team will definitely have eldar with a revenant titan, marines with a baneblade, sisters, Salamanders marines. The fifth player on their team will probably be marines of some flavour. Don't know what superheavies to expect other than the titan and the baneblade.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tychris1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Insensate Rage is awful, especially when fighting against actual Titans or Gargantuans. Get a regular Thirster or replace it with something else altogether.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So, having finally got a few games in, here's the first part of my 7th edition Necron guide

    Necron Special Rules of Note
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    Reanimation Protocols: Probably the most iconic element of the Necrons is their self-repair ability. This special rule makes even your most basic troops incredibly durable. One thing to note here is that multiple bonuses to reanimation protocols improves your durability against instant death attacks. Which is about the only reason you'd take a Cryptek in a Decurion Detachment.

    Living Metal: Being immune to the negative effects of Crew Shaken is useful, but not incredible. A one in six chance of regenerating hull points on your Monolith, Obelisk, or Tesseract Vault is also not a huge bonus, but it's better than nothing. Overall, this result makes your vehicles slightly more durable, but it probably won't decide the result of the game or change your strategy overmuch.

    Gauss Weaponry: Basic Troops that can kill land raiders and wraithknights. This is the other ability that put Necrons on the map when they were first released. It is quite powerful, but you should still carefully consider your target priority- Is potentially putting 1 wound on a Monstrous Creature more important than killing the Dire Avengers next to it? This is the sort of decision you'll have to make.

    Tesla Weaponry: An alternative to Gauss weaponry. Tesla Weapons are noticeably more effective than gauss weapons on units with good armor saves since they provide more hits, but they suffer when forced to make snap shots, and the lack of an AP value hurts when fighting swarms. When choosing between the two, consider what you'll be shooting and how often you'll get to fire the weapon at full ballistic skill.
    Necron Warlord Traits
    Spoiler
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    Knowing Which Warlord traits to keep and which you should re-roll is important, especially when a table has a few "traps" like the Necron table.

    1. Enduring Will: Eternal Warrior is very good on multi-wound models. This is less valuable on Lords and Crypteks, but I wouldn't re-roll it for fear of getting Honourable Combatant.

    2. Eternal Madness: Zealot gives you Fearless and Hatred. A solid support for a death star unit, and you'll seldom regret giving a unit fearless.

    3. Immortal Hubris: While Necrons are Leadership 10, failing a leadership check is still a concern. Re-rolling failed checks renders this a virtual non-issue: The odds of failing two leadership checks in a row at LD 10 are less than one in one hundred. Still, if you're not going to be rolling many morale checks for whatever reason (Say, a bunch of vehicles and small units that will likely not survive one turn's worth of concentrated firepower), this may need to be re-rolled.

    4. Hyperlogical Stategist: Reserves Manipulation is solid. Keep it if you've got night scythes or other units in reserves, re-roll it if you don't.

    5. Implacable Conqueror: Necrons don't particularly like assault, so Relentless isn't a big boon to them, and Crusader is mostly forgettable. Re-roll this, especially if you've taken a Decurion and all of your units already have it either from formation benefits or simply their creature type as a result.

    6. Honourable Combatant: Generally speaking, you'd much rather have another trait from this table or from personal if you're building a Necron Lord who wants to be in combat. So, another to re-roll.
    Necron Troop Choices
    Spoiler
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    Necron Warriors: Necron warriors are one of the most inexpensive models available you, but don't write them off as simple fodder; Reanimation Protocols can make them more durable than Space Marines, and sufficient gauss flayer fire will take down any unit in the game. Not efficiently necessarily, but that's more than most troop units in the game can claim to do. Necron warriors make solid guard for home objectives, and they're one of your most efficient answers to units with poor armor saves like Eldar Guardians and Imperial Guardsmen.

    Necron Immortals: A step up from the Necron warrior, Immortals pack bigger guns and heavier armor. If you can get them a bonus to reanimation protocols rolls, Necron Immortals can weather an incredible amount of fire. Their gauss blasters also allow them to dispatch many of the most common infantry threats, like Tempestus Scions, Dire Avengers, and Tau Fire Warriors. Where Necron Warriors do best holding your backline up, Immortals are better suited to reinforcing failing battle lines and claiming objectives from the enemy.
    Tesla Carbines: Tesla Carbines are something of a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. Rapid firing Gauss Blasters will achieve the same number of shots on average, and those are AP4 and can kill Land Raiders. Tesla Carbines do offer superior firepower at longer ranges, but immortals like to be in the thick of things, which means your range advantage is unlikely to be realized.
    Last edited by Squark; 2015-04-24 at 12:57 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    Insensate Rage is awful, especially when fighting against actual Titans or Gargantuans. Get a regular Thirster or replace it with something else altogether.
    My plan was to use it to hunt down enemy characters, maybe the Baneblade I'm expecting to see as well.

    EDIT: I could take out the thirster and put in another infantry unit in a rhino, or take a juggerlord in a CAD detachment with a bit of point juggling.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2015-04-24 at 06:25 PM.
    Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Nine and a half hour game of 2v2 with a green tide and big nids army vs space wolvs and necrons.

    Never again.
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    By Alterform


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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Nine and a half hour game of 2v2 with a green tide and big nids army vs space wolvs and necrons.

    Never again.
    How many points? o_0
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    1,500pts a person. The Wolves got annihilated and all I lost was my deathmarks, monolith, and doomscythe. The green tide was one big tarpit.
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    By Alterform


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    Lore: 7.

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I find it more than a coincidence that someone who hasn't been seen in this thread for what, two years? Suddenly decided to pop in to complain.
    And i find it kinda hilarious how "voted for a different threat title some pages ago" can turn into "have not been seen on the thread for two years...

    Do people not realise that the new thread has been up almost 24 hours now?
    And i did notice, but there were someone who had asked a question in the previous thread, and since it had not been closed i decided to answer there, seeing as it were then more likely the answer would be noticed.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So. New Eldar. Overall impression? Nice. Really nice. Banshees are useful now. Banshee masks, especially, are now really, really nice: not only do they lower enemy initiative and weapon skill considerably, there's also no overwatch against units with banshee masks. I'd expect to see quite a few autarchs with banshee masks. A few old rules have come back, such as hawks attacking fliers. And my personal favourite: fire prisms (and nightspinners) can link their fire again. Wave serpents did get nerfed and shields are one use as predicted. Also had their range massively cut.

    Sadly, that is all a bit overshadowed by the bad parts. Eldar jetbikes with cheap special weapons on every bike: confirmed. 270 points for 10 jetbikes with scatter lasers, 4 shots S6 each. Quite a few things got a few points cheaper. Gargantuan wraithknigths with destroyer weapons.

    Oh, and the fluff is still garbled and unreadable, but that won't concern you english-speaking types.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2015-04-25 at 05:11 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Picked up another Oath of Moment painting challenge win this month. Pretty chuffed with how the deamon prince conversion turned out, especially the wings, though the base is lacklustre since I ran out of time to get it done before the judging was due. Hopefully I'll find tsome time to fancy it up a little later.

    Spoiler
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    Some input & advice for an upcoming tournament would also be appreciated. This is for the comp tournament I mention in the previous thread, so the usual power stuff will be limited, and I don't expect invis to be overly common and I expect a distinct lack of terrain (100 attending when 60 was originally planned for). AV 14 and 13 are heavily comped, as are AV12 walkers after the 3rd. Currently tossing up between the following lists;

    Spoiler: List 1
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    CAD
    125 - Warpsmith, Aura of Dark Glory
    165 - Sorceror, ML 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Spell familiar, Sigil of Corruption

    254 - 8x Thousand Sons (including aspiring sorceror), Rhino (Sorceror Goes Here)
    205 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma Guns, Rhino
    120 - 5x CSM, 1x Melta Gun, Rhino (Warpsmith Goes Here)

    170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    175 - Forgefiend, Hades Autocannons

    Mayhem Pack
    115 - Helbrute, Multi-Melta, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer
    115 - Helbrute, Multi-Melta, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer
    115 - Helbrute, Multi-Melta, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer

    1849

    I feel I've got too much in reserve (drake and mayhem pack is over 500 points, the mayhem MUST start in DS reserve and all come in on 1 roll but can deploy seperately) and no reserve manipulation. Very vulnerable to having stuff not come in when I need it as well as the mayhem pack rolls that I MUST make every turn. List comes in at 5/20, which is fairly soft. Got MEQ and TEQ killing mostly covered, though issues with heavy cover saves (though shatter defences combined with the drake should see me through) and anti air is light to say the least with only heldrake vector strikes and rate of fire from the forgefiend. The MoT on the sorc allows TSons as troops, getting them and their rhino ObSec and saves me a comp point as lvl 3 unmarked taxes a point.

    Going to struggle against anyone who brings an Imperial Knight (1 won't be uncommon, but I doubt I'll see many lists with multiples), though the helbrutes may be able to DS in and take a few HP off with their meltas and then some more when charging/getting charged.


    Spoiler: List 2
    Show

    CAD
    125 - Warpsmith, Aura of Dark Glory
    165 - Sorceror, ML 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Spell familiar, Sigil of Corruption

    456 - 4x Terminators (2x Chainfists, 1x Pair Lightning Claws, 1x Power Axe, 3x Combi Meltas, VotLW, MoT)
    - Land Raider, Extra Armour, Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade (Warpsmith goes here)

    259 - 8x Thousand Sons (including aspiring sorceror), Melta Bombs, Rhino (Sorceror Goes Here)
    210 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma Guns, Melta Bombs, Rhino

    170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    175 - Forgefiend, Hades Autocannons

    1850

    Slightly more relliable anti-knight as the chainfists should cause issues and the charge is much more reliable. Also lowers my reliance on reserves, with only the drake starting off the table and forcing target priority between the vindies and the raider. Warpsmith hangs out in the raider fixing immobilised or hullpoints on a 4+ while not giving up warlord. Don't like the idea of sinking ~450 points into 5 models though it does help vs Tau and Eldar.

    Loss of the 3rd ObSec unit and rhino worries me a bit since we're apparently playing some ETC style missions where capping objective by the turn is a thing, and I think I'll also miss the ability to fire 2 meltas out the top hatch. List also clocks in at 5/20, registering as a soft list.


    Spoiler: List 3
    Show

    CAD
    165 - Sorceror, ML 3, Mark of Tzeentch, Spell familiar, Sigil of Corruption

    259 - 8x Thousand Sons (including aspiring sorceror), Melta Bombs, Rhino (Sorceror Goes Here)
    282 - 9x Thousand Sons (including aspiring sorceror), Melta Bombs, Rhino

    170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer

    175 - Forgefiend, Hades Autocannons
    175 - Forgefiend, Hades Autocannons

    Allied Detachment

    125 - Herald of Tzeentch, ML2, Disk, Exalted (Grimoure)

    109 - 11x Pink Horrors, Icon
    109 - 11x Pink Horrors, Icon

    150 - 6x Screamers

    100 - Burning Chariot

    1849

    This is the list I have the most experience with the constituent parts of (I run something similar but with fateweaver [who is 14 comp by himself if you're taking the grimoure] exchanged for 1 forgefiend and a horror unit normally at 1850 against more competative local lists), but I'm not in love with the idea of the grimoure without fateweaver, but prescience on the forgefiends is always nice. Burning chariot will either soak an inordinant amount of fire or deal with cover campers, screamerstar-lite is fine as long as I can hide 1st turn and don't fluff my rolls. Horrors are a battery and can summon if required though I don't have an answer to TEQ or heavy vehicles beyond melta jaws or fishing for glances with the forgefiends.

    The mix of mech and footsloggers isn't ideal though, but I don't think I can rely on the CSM half to achieve much without transports and oblits are comped fairly heavily. Yet again, this list is 5/20 comp and is considered quite soft.


    Spoiler: List 4
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    CAD
    355 - Daemon Prince, ML3, Armour, Wings, Spell Familiar, MoT, Black Mace
    170 - Chaos Lord, MoK, Jugger, Sigil, AoBF

    112 - 3x Terminators, 3x Combi Meltas

    205 - 10x CSM, 2x Plasma, Rhino
    200 - 10x CSM, 2x Melta, Melta Bombs, Rhino

    120 - 4x Spawn
    170 - Heldrake, Baleflamer

    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    145 - Vindicator, Daemonic possession, Combi Bolter, Dozer Blade
    228 - 3x Obliterators, MoN

    1850

    A much stronger list, but coming in at 9/20 comp points. Lacks the flavour of the other lists in favour of heavy punching power, though again can be quite reserve heavy if the oblits need to DS in. AA is a concern, with only the Drakes vector strikes and the oblits rate of fire with assault cannons or twin linked melta guns if in range and some lucky dice. Will be a bit light on anti hoarde, but I'm hoping the vindis, DP and juggerlord will be able to make enough of a dent that I can take the win.

    I'm still loathe to take a list at 9 points though and this will require me to buy and paint some extra models (time constraints are getting tighter since the tourney is in early June and I'm a slow painter on my best day.


    So yeah, any thoughts on areas I've missed? I would like to take my heldrake as I'd like to show off the conversion, but it, along with the forgefiends and new daemon prince are painted up in Thousand Sons colours while all other non-TSons units are Iron warriors. I've got a handful of other models kicking around, but mostly the models listed are what I have (plus a whack of mainly Tzeentch daemons) and time is running out, so additional units will have to be limited (and preferably quick and easy to paint!).

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So, in continuing my saga to attempt to pick the game up for cheap, In discussing this with my friends, it seems that one friend bought 1280 points of Tau to Ally into his Grey Knights/mod the crap out of his Grey Knights with, only to end up giving up on both projects. He's offering to let me use them to get started with, borrowed his Codex and waiting on an actual unit list to figure out what's missing and what there is to learn. (I suspect it's strongly lacking in infantry since he kept saying Riptides.)

    Edit:
    Ah, he got the list to me, The Tau Empire battleforce box (minus the piranha), a Hammerhead gunship, and 3 broadside battlesuits.

    Is that viable on it's own out of box, and what tactics should I read up on?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So I've just got back from the 5v5, my team lost by a narrow margin, though I can't recall the exact VPs.

    The chaos team was almost entirely Khorne based, 3 CSM armies and 2 Daemonkin ones. We had 2 Warhounds, a forge world knight of some sort and a Lord of Skulls on our side.

    The enemy was Sisters of Battle, Eldar, Eldar/Space Marines, Imperial Guard and more Space Marines. They had 2 Revenant titans, a Stormlord and a Knight.

    It was a bloody massacre at both ends of the table, but reversed depending on who had more superheavies at the location. My side had a warhound and the FW knight, both of which were obliterated first turn by the eldar titans, which were both at my end with the shadowsword, as was most of one of the CSM armies (turns out footslogging isn't a good idea with half an imperial guard tank army across from you, not to mention the other stuff.) I managed to hide my bloodthirster in a unit of scouts for the next enemy shooting phase and killed the imperial guard tank commander and his squadron with my possessed, more than earning back both their points and their land raider's.

    Pity they got obliterated by the stormlord the following turn.

    Not much else of interest happened at my end of the table, for the most part it was just my army either being blown apart or taking inordinate amounts of fire to put down (mostly the chaos spawn). The only interesting part that happened was when my 'thirster killed one of the revenants in assault, dying to a 6 on the stomp table as payback. Still, 275 points killing 900 points is a pretty good trade.


    This was the first game that I actually got a chance to try out the Daemonkin codex properly, rather than just extrapolate on it's strengths based on the CSM and CD codices. All in all it's not actually that bad. The ability to apply army wide buffs from early on acts as a damn nice force multiplier, and while summoning new units is definitely not a great use of your time it can certainly make a hard to kill distraction out of a normal champion. I had fun, and killed about 1600 or so points of shooty stuff with my 2k points assault army despite going second and being faced by multiple superheavies, so certainly a nice enough time that didn't feel wasted.

    I do feel kind of bad for the guy whose entire army was wiped down to three units on the first turn though.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2015-04-26 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Fixing silly mistakes
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Norren View Post
    So, in continuing my saga to attempt to pick the game up for cheap, In discussing this with my friends, it seems that one friend bought 1280 points of Tau to Ally into his Grey Knights/mod the crap out of his Grey Knights with, only to end up giving up on both projects. He's offering to let me use them to get started with, borrowed his Codex and waiting on an actual unit list to figure out what's missing and what there is to learn. (I suspect it's strongly lacking in infantry since he kept saying Riptides.)

    Edit:
    Ah, he got the list to me, The Tau Empire battleforce box (minus the piranha), a Hammerhead gunship, and 3 broadside battlesuits.

    Is that viable on it's own out of box, and what tactics should I read up on?
    Yes and no. It's a good start, but not competitive. You said you wanted a kind of mechanized hit and run force, yes? Tau fit that bill really well.

    I'm not a Tau expert, but right off the top of my head I'd say you need two things: another box of fire warriors (the Battleforce gives you one) and a unit of Pathfinders (a support unit that puts out Markerlights, a Tau unique ability that affects their shooting). A flyer is also almost mandatory these days, and luckily Tau flyers, the Razorshark and Sunshark, are very good at what they do.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Actually, for dealing with fliers, I would recommend just building the Hammerhead as a skyray (they use the same kit). I find the skyray is a very nice support tank, while the Tau fliers are rather iffy, in my view.

    Also, if you build the broadsides with the missile pods they can help against fliers with their volume of fire.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Broadsides can also take Velocity Trackers, for Skyfire.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    I'm not a Tau expert, but right off the top of my head I'd say you need two things: another box of fire warriors (the Battleforce gives you one) and a unit of Pathfinders (a support unit that puts out Markerlights, a Tau unique ability that affects their shooting). A flyer is also almost mandatory these days, and luckily Tau flyers, the Razorshark and Sunshark, are very good at what they do.
    Most people would guide you towards the Mark'O commander (Commander, 2x Missile Pods, Target Lock, Drone Controller. 2x Marker Drones & Irridium if points allow which they should because Irridium is awesome) and a unit of marker drones for your markerlight sources, but Fliers are no longer mandatory and on top of that, both Tau fliers are widely regarded as pretty terrible. Riptides, broadsides and even crisis suits can buy skyfire while skyrays come stock with it and a pair of markerlights, so if there's any force that really doesn't need planes, it's Tau.
    Last edited by Drasius; 2015-04-26 at 05:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    This was the first game that I actually got a chance to try out the Daemonkin codex properly, rather than just extrapolate on it's strengths based on the CSM and CD codices. All in all it's not actually that bad. The ability to apply army wide buffs from early on acts as a damn nice force multiplier, and while summoning new units is definitely not a great use of your time it can certainly make a hard to kill distraction out of a normal champion. I had fun, and killed about 1600 or so points of shooty stuff with my 2k points assault army despite going second and being faced by multiple superheavies, so certainly a nice enough time that didn't feel wasted.
    I have only had 2 battles with daemonkin as of yet and I have to say they are amazingly fun to play with. They just feel different from CSM and the blood tithe rule is really nice.

    I've been thinking about trying out the terminator/bloodcrusher formation next game I have. Sure terminators are not the best, but I like the fact that every model gets +1A if outnumbered ☺

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann



    Nice. Will wait for the rules before I expand my Lance of Battlemechs Knight household, but looks the goods. Apparently it's a single box that makes all 5 varients of knight (Paladin, Errant which are the 2 current ones and Castellan, Warden and Gallant). Be interesting to see if the knight volcano cannon has the same stats as the one on the shadowsword.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I heard the rumor that the new knights will be considerably tougher than the others - 14/13/13, 8HP. If this is the case, then I could see myself picking one up - so far, knights are cool, but can't really go toe-to-toe with the other super-heavies.
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    Oh Forge World, you so Crazy...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Ooh, they are selling feet, now?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I can't help but notice GK advice in OP uses 5th edition Codex; Would anyone be interested in seeing 7th edition update?

    Also, I started playing Tyrant's Legion list recently (which is now free on FW website, incidentally). I see it's missing from OP too, would anyone be interested in seeing note on that either?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    I can't help but notice GK advice in OP uses 5th edition Codex; Would anyone be interested in seeing 7th edition update?
    My bad. I definitely remember writing it because it's one of the best books in the game for dealing with Gargantuans.

    Tyrant's Legion list recently (which is now free on FW website, incidentally). I see it's missing from OP too, would anyone be interested in seeing note on that either?
    Go for it. Just be wary of things that don't work in 7th. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I know they're there.
    EDIT: One thing I do know is that Codex AM has been printed since then. IIRC, Tyrant's Legion no longer holds up in the slightest. But I could be wrong.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2015-04-27 at 08:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    I've updated the Battle Reports list to the present day- can we get it added into the OP?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I've updated the Battle Reports list to the present day- can we get it added into the OP?
    Affirmative.
    EDIT: Speaking of which, I need to finish writing mine from last weekend.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2015-04-27 at 08:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post

    Nice. Will wait for the rules before I expand my Lance of Battlemechs Knight household, but looks the goods. Apparently it's a single box that makes all 5 varients of knight (Paladin, Errant which are the 2 current ones and Castellan, Warden and Gallant). Be interesting to see if the knight volcano cannon has the same stats as the one on the shadowsword.
    They're gonna make me rebuy a Knights codex aren't they? It's not even that old...

    Sigh. I actually think I might just sell all my Imperial dudes, I don't thik I'll ever play them over my Crons or Chaos. Could put the money towards some CSM to start.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Yeah, the knights codex has gone from the webstore, and the companion book is unavailable in all the places I checked.

    Also; Nice work LeSwordfish.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    Damn it GW! You are burning a hole straight through my wallet. I still have to buy the blood angels codex, three drops pods, the new eldar codex and finally get a wraith knight and now you are telling me the knights codex is getting replaced!

    @Cheesegear:
    From last thread I know the models you listed werent more than $1 per point but I was thinking about units like wyverns and dunewalkers which are.
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    Post Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

    So I'm looking at the Skitarii codex, and what's the point of transuranic arquebuses? I mean, initially I was thinking "cool, long-range anti-armour", but looking at it against armour it's just S4 armourbane, so basically a single S7/8 shot on average. Sure, I guess you can luck out and pen AV14, but given the cost and the whole Heavy 1 thing, it seems to me like you can't really get the rate of fire you'd want to try and luck out that kinda rolling (really if I wanted vanguard/rangers vehicle hunting, I'd probably give them arc rifles and haywire stuff - you lose the extreme range but have to pay less and it seems like it'd tend to give better results if you can get them in range). I guess you can use it as a normal sniper weapon, and there the AP3 would help, but it's still a lot of points to remove one or two wounds from an MC a round. There is the benefit of that extra range (the other skitarii infantry weapons tending to be 18-30"), but that just seems to make the whole lack of shots for your money more out there.

    I dunno, guess I'm used to being able to get lascannons pretty easily for that kinda cost, which are better in every way other than precision shots (and sure that extra 12" of range). I guess, unless T10 non-gargantuan stuff starts turning up. Or there's always the possibility there's some obvious factor I'm missing and they're actually worth using.

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