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  1. - Top - End - #451
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Threadnaught View Post
    Yeah, go Elder Evils, maybe I'll get one of those instead of a Maneuver, or God.
    This is precisely why I gave preemptive permission.
    What the- I could have sworn you got a maneuver.
    If purple is evil, bold gray is lawful good.

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  2. - Top - End - #452
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Well, the orphanage is standing, less so the orphans themselves. And I'm sure that the legions of evil tremble at your shiny armor instead of the cleric who can feed them AND outfight you.
    That Holy Avenger doesn't just disappear when it is sold to feed orphans, unless these orphans also happen to be Spellgaunts (MM2, p. 188). When a resource is of limited variety, it is best allocated to those in the position from which it is most advantageously used.

    Besides, treating the symptoms of corruption is useless the destruction of its source is sought after as well. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If orphans must starve for the hordes of the Abyss to fall, then so be it.

    (if purple is evil, green is chaos, and grey is lawful good, orange [FF8C00] is Lawful Neutral)
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2015-05-12 at 05:35 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #453
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

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  4. - Top - End - #454
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Well, I'm not tallying the votes. Keep hemorrhaging words. Something surely will happen.

    I'm torn, as always. Katanas will do that to a person. I could do ACFs, to rack up some Evil points from Elric on my karma meter before Elder evils. Of course, Great Old Ones caught my eye. It's a bit more my speed.
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  5. - Top - End - #455
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Elder evils. Of course, Great Old Ones caught my eye. It's a bit more my speed.
    Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
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  6. - Top - End - #456
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.
    Eeeeeeehhhhh?!

    If we do that, I think we would need a good option, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  7. - Top - End - #457
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Eeeeeeehhhhh?!

    If we do that, I think we would need a good option, too.
    Great old ones are creatures you actually have a chance against, and they aren't necessarily evil (Bokrug is CN), but are always chaotic. Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"
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    See, this wouldn't happen if you were a Zweihander Sentinel Warder with Silver Crane. You'd have a 60 ft. fly speed with good maneuverability, DR and glowing pants as early as level 8.

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  8. - Top - End - #458
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Aren't the two fairly similar? I could definitely see them sharing a thread, the main difference being the amount of description given.
    In 3.P Elder Evils are world shifting, while Great Old Ones are more just high CR opponents that induce insanity, are truly immortal and unkillable.
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2015-05-12 at 07:25 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #459
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Ah. Thanks for explaining the whole Great Old One deal to me. I was calling to mind the various Lovecraft Mythos deities, which are pretty close to Elder Evils.
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  10. - Top - End - #460
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by IZ42 View Post
    Great old ones are creatures you actually have a chance against, and they aren't necessarily evil (Bokrug is CN), but are always chaotic. Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"
    Great Old ones would be the kinda neutral option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  11. - Top - End - #461
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    Ah. Thanks for explaining the whole Great Old One deal to me. I was calling to mind the various Lovecraft Mythos deities, which are pretty close to Elder Evils.
    The distinction is that a being like Cthulhu is basically a Tarrasque on roids with a madness aura; tough to crack and drives you nuts. Elder Evils are beings which basically contaminate reality with concentrated Hell just by existing. The former is used as a plot device inasmuch as he doesn't actually care about mortal life, being infinitely complex beyond our comprehension, and therefore has neither the patience nor the inclination to be a part of any machinations of which the PCs can conceive. The latter are used as plot devices inasmuch as to unleash them is to end the world. Not just civilization, or life, but the actual fundamental essence of the world.

    So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.
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  12. - Top - End - #462
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.
    hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?
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  13. - Top - End - #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.
    Sounds like my kind of party. My vote's staying with Elder Evils.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
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  14. - Top - End - #464
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?
    religiously, not ethnically
    No, they're Jewish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    hmmm... Do Elder Evils celebrate Christmas?
    They call it Nylarthotepmas.
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    I always thought understanding Scottish required a fort save vs. Alcohol poisoning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla
    See, this wouldn't happen if you were a Zweihander Sentinel Warder with Silver Crane. You'd have a 60 ft. fly speed with good maneuverability, DR and glowing pants as early as level 8.

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  16. - Top - End - #466
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by IZ42 View Post
    They call it Nylarthotepmas.
    I like to think Nylarthotepmas presents are gifted inside tesseracts.
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by IZ42 View Post
    They call it Nylarthotepmas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    I like to think Nylarthotepmas presents are gifted inside tesseracts.
    Only a small portion of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    There are some pretty weak elder evils, such as any of the ones in the elder evils book. Cathulu is probably on par or worse than them (no i do not want to here about how he has been stated in x game or even 3.5 have you read any of his stuff?), but he is also a smaller fry.

    I wish we had some more back story about some of the truly frightening elder evils, like that one that spilt a little blood into the material plane before there was anything recognizable as life and created the aboleths by accident before wandering off into the far reaches of the far realm.

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    There are some pretty weak elder evils, such as any of the ones in the elder evils book. Cathulu is probably on par or worse than them (no i do not want to here about how he has been stated in x game or even 3.5 have you read any of his stuff?), but he is also a smaller fry.
    Yeah, Father Llymic (to give an example) is a bit of a pushover for a party who've done their research properly. Cthulhu is probably best represented as a high-level spellcaster with a bunch of outsider HD and racial abilities, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    I wish we had some more back story about some of the truly frightening elder evils, like that one that spilt a little blood into the material plane before there was anything recognizable as life and created the aboleths by accident before wandering off into the far reaches of the far realm.
    Oooh, yeah, I love the Elder Evils in Lords of Madness. Holashner was actually a near-direct inspiration for one of my entries into the Vote Up an Elder Evil thread. And now that I think about it, Shothotugg sounds pretty similar to the other idea I submitted in the same post.
    Last edited by Extra Anchovies; 2015-05-13 at 12:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGrinningCat View Post
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  20. - Top - End - #470
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    I'm not all that interested in Elder Evils. They're fairly obscure, they're relatively difficult to write, they're not a good fit for the non-evil GitP regulars, and they're just generally not as interesting as archetypes/ACFs.

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    I will note that the Elder Evils in LoM are explicitly not the same things as Elder Evils in the Elder Evils book. They are also distinctly cooler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I'm not all that interested in Elder Evils. They're fairly obscure, they're relatively difficult to write, they're not a good fit for the non-evil GitP regulars, and they're just generally not as interesting as archetypes/ACFs.
    Also I agree on all counts. The ones in the official book never interested me enough to actually figure out how to make one myself. Well Zargon did because Ancient Baatorians, but then I realized 1) he was CR 19, 2) they screwed up matching any of the things we know about Ancient Baatorians. Seriously Zargon is not a threat to make armies of celestials and Baatezu team together. And that's what a single ordinary Ancient Baatorian is presented as (only stats I can find for one was "no save, it kills the party if they disturb it too much, nothing short of a Wish spell can affect it, and since this module is for Lv 8-10 we aren't bothering with that"; I didn't say it was well done).

    And there's so much potential with Ancient Baatorians and the nupperibos and the Baatezu. Have one kick start the petitioners and nupperibos into transforming and... I'll stop.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2015-05-13 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I will note that the Elder Evils in LoM are explicitly not the same things as Elder Evils in the Elder Evils book. They are also distinctly cooler.
    Is that somewhere in the Elder Evils book? I never read through it very well. Too disappointed in the low level of the Evils.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    Is that somewhere in the Elder Evils book? I never read through it very well. Too disappointed in the low level of the Evils.
    The Aboleth Elder Evils are a specific group of god-like entities. The Elder Evils in the books are a subtype of creatures. So they're more implicitly different things than explicitly but they're defined quite differently. It might be theoretically possible to stat out the former as the latter, but they aren't really the same thing. It's just a case of them using the same term for two things. I think the LoM Elder Evils date back to the TSR days but can't really be sure LoM did a good job of drawing from the older editions with modification.
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    The Aboleth Elder Evils are a specific group of god-like entities. The Elder Evils in the books are a subtype of creatures. So they're more implicitly different things than explicitly but they're defined quite differently. It might be theoretically possible to stat out the former as the latter, but they aren't really the same thing. It's just a case of them using the same term for two things. I think the LoM Elder Evils date back to the TSR days but can't really be sure LoM did a good job of drawing from the older editions with modification.
    god-like? maybe some kind of over-diety that doesn't care about the material plane. They are kinda awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    god-like? maybe some kind of over-diety that doesn't care about the material plane. They are kinda awesome.
    Very vague, very ill-defined, and very good for it. Apparently they have Great Old One equivalencies in LoM (Bolothamogg apparently might be Yog-Sothoth).
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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    Sandcube of Jurai
    Sandbox Goliath (Stance)
    Level: 8th.
    Prerequisites: 4 Sandbox Golaith maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action.
    Range: Personal.
    Target: You.
    Duration: Stance.

    There is a world somewhere in the multiverse for every action that can occur. While you are in this stance, you overlay the multiple worlds and can force the results you want onto this world by guiding another world's events onto this one. This is a dangerous technique, however, that is not without consequences.

    While you are in this stance, you can treat any skill check, ability check, save, or attack roll as if you had rolled a 19. Each time you use this ability, take 2 points of damage to the attribute that corrosponds with that roll (no save) after the results are totaled. This damage can not be reduced in any manner and can not be restored for 1 hour while the full ramifications of overlaying multiple realities resolve themselves. For example, you may treat a Reflex save as if you had rolled a 19 but you then take 2 points of damage to Dexterity after determining the total of the save. This is a supernatural effect.

    I got the idea for this from Jurai's sig with a little help from the Uchiha ability Izanagi from Naruto. What does everyone think?
    Here, take it:



    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I could see Elder Evils and all, it's just... Man, that's where I live, you know?
    Don't worry, what's the worst that could ha-



    ...Uh, I can fix that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    To spread the Songplague, the first, primal disease born when the world was young.
    It causes fevers, and the only cure is more cowbell.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZ42 View Post
    Perhaps just title it "GiTP Regulars as Elder Beings"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    So, yeah. Basically like my typical family reunion.
    So kind of like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    So kind of like this?

    Ugh, I remember that year. I got socks. The kind with toes. I mean, what kind of monster buys those?
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  28. - Top - End - #478
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.

  29. - Top - End - #479
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    IZ42's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.
    Don't worry, most people have voted Elder Evils.
    Spoiler: Quotes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    I always thought understanding Scottish required a fort save vs. Alcohol poisoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Twelve.five
    Hipsterdin- Smiting Heathens before it was cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla
    See, this wouldn't happen if you were a Zweihander Sentinel Warder with Silver Crane. You'd have a 60 ft. fly speed with good maneuverability, DR and glowing pants as early as level 8.

    Pink is Neutral Evil, because reasons.


    Exalted Monk Avatar by ThePrez1776

  30. - Top - End - #480
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    LoyalPaladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5+ToB/PF +DSP/PoW] GitP Regulars as Maneuvers!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elricaltovilla View Post
    If people want to do Archetypes/ACFs that's fine, I just likely won't participate since I got involved in these because they were a break from the writing I've already been doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by IZ42 View Post
    Don't worry, most people have voted Elder Evils.
    Yeah, it's not like Snowbluff gets final say or anything. Wait a second. That's exactly what it's like. Whoever put Snow in a position of power has doomed Elric. And probably IZ42 as well.
    If purple is evil, bold gray is lawful good.

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