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  1. - Top - End - #1201
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GilesTheCleric's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    Yes, but, i alread have a great CD without it. And my offensive dont is CD dependent.



    MORE ARGUMENTS AGAINST MY BUILD?
    What is a CD?

    I'd really like you to respond to my long post that was an argument against your build. It took me over an hour to write, and everything is quoted and sourced, so I don't think you should have any problems reading it or seeing where the rules came from.

    "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!" – Kubrick, "Dr. Strangelove"
    I do still exist. I'm active on discord. Priestess of Neptune#8648

  2. - Top - End - #1202
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    Bad Wolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    Yes, but, i alread have a great CD without it. And my offensive dont is CD dependent.



    MORE ARGUMENTS AGAINST MY BUILD?
    How about you just submit it to the judge, and then we can move this competition along and stop arguing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Sorcerers are also based on Charisma. If a Wizard studies the cheat codes to reality, the Sorcerer literally just glares or winks at the universe. And the universe listens.
    Quote Originally Posted by foobar1969 View Post
    Flexibility is awesome, but I'd sacrifice that spellbook in a heartbeat to be a 24-7 flying hentai apocalypse demon.


    First Eternal foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

  3. - Top - End - #1203
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    What is a CD?
    CD=DC sorry.

    No more legitimate arguments against my "illegal" build!
    I need study!

  4. - Top - End - #1204
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    No more legitimate arguments against my "illegal" build!
    Real sorcerer kings wouldn't need a build.

  5. - Top - End - #1205
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Ya know, I read the vast majority of this thread at work, where a decent number of those images were blocked. But looking at some of them here on my home network I do gotta give the guy some credit: with the exception of them being mostly shirtless (or at least having bare chests) he did find a rather impressive collection of artwork. Plus, yes, one Raistlin Majere (post-Nuitari), who is indeed a Wizard. But otherwise, nice art. Just stop repeating it. And put a shirt on, you're likely to catch a cold, or maybe a fine, going out in public like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ComaVision View Post
    My ten foot pole and I are going to go prod less dangerous traps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Your hexblade turns out to be a holy sword imbued with the spirit of R Lee Ermey. "Stand up straight, maggot! Shoulders back, chin up, eyes front, and suck in that gut! I'm going to make a man out of you, maggot, even if it kills you!"
    My Extended Sig!
    Kobold Weasel Rider Avatar done by ThePrez1776
    House Min'Doan PbP - Zif'coip Min'Doan

  6. - Top - End - #1206
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by paranoidbox View Post
    Real sorcerer kings wouldn't need a build.
    Real Sorcerer Kings use legitimate builds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    There's a reason why we bap your nose, not crucify you, for thread necromancy.

  7. - Top - End - #1207
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Well, LordDrako, you only need a way to not fail your save on natural one, actually, to qualify by RAW.

    But if we are using any common sense, you also need to explain how you deal with issue that taint cannot be removed unless your character wants to be cleansed.

  8. - Top - End - #1208
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    if you want to attack me personally rather than to arguments, I will ignore it
    This is the loser culture.
    I was attacking your arguments. The amateur psychoanalysis was directed at the rest of the posters here, in response to why you "argue" the way you do.

    If you think calling you scared is a "personal attack", then YOU are guilty of more personal attacks than anyone on this thread.

    You have NOT PROVEN ANYTHING.

    Here's how these conversations go:
    Drako: I qualify for this Prestige Class
    Other poster: No you don't. He is why: (posts rulebook quotations with page numbers)
    Drako: No more arguments. I qualify. Here is an unrelated picture (of a wizard), while I keep claiming "I am best"

    This is not "proving" your point. You did not address the PROOF that was provided which said that your "reasons" for qualifying were WRONG.

    Tell me Drako, if your build is so great and awesome, how come 20 people in your native Brazil told you it was illegal? Why were you kicked out of that gaming group?

    Your build is easily countered. Other posters have shown this. And all you say is "no I am god" and post one of the same 6 or 7 pictures you have posted 9 times before.
    Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.

    Where do you fit in? (link fixed)

    RedMage Prestige Class!

    Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
    "Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."

    Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

  9. - Top - End - #1209
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    CD=DC sorry.

    No more legitimate arguments against my "illegal" build!
    I need study!
    Anyone else tickled by how he is asking us to stop being right?
    Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.

    Where do you fit in? (link fixed)

    RedMage Prestige Class!

    Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
    "Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."

    Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

  10. - Top - End - #1210
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    I am not kicked any forum!? its fake.
    Yes, i alread prove 100x i am qualify. Are you deaf or blind? Or You want me to draw?

    Make your wizard build, lets go see it.
    I am countered? Serious? Metagaming? stop cry and lets go your "RAW" build.
    Last edited by LordDrako; 2015-05-14 at 10:21 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #1211
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    Yes, but, i alread have a great DC without it. And my offensive dont is DC dependent.
    No, but the only offensive bit that you have actually posted is an augmented Hail of Stones. Otherwise known as something that any wizard build I post will flat out stop cold. It doesn't matter how you augment it, how often you cast it, how many times you cast it, or how much damage it theoretically does.

    No need for Hide Life or even things like Resilient Sphere. It just flat won't do **** all against my standing, always on, standard, defenses.

    MORE ARGUMENTS AGAINST MY BUILD?
    Most of them have already been covered, at least in regards to blatant illegalities.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  12. - Top - End - #1212
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    WeaselGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    Anyone else tickled by how he is asking us to stop being right?
    Does this mean we can post illegitimate arguments?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ComaVision View Post
    My ten foot pole and I are going to go prod less dangerous traps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Your hexblade turns out to be a holy sword imbued with the spirit of R Lee Ermey. "Stand up straight, maggot! Shoulders back, chin up, eyes front, and suck in that gut! I'm going to make a man out of you, maggot, even if it kills you!"
    My Extended Sig!
    Kobold Weasel Rider Avatar done by ThePrez1776
    House Min'Doan PbP - Zif'coip Min'Doan

  13. - Top - End - #1213
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselGuy View Post
    Does this mean we can post illegitimate arguments?
    Your argument was fathered by the blacksmith!
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  14. - Top - End - #1214
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    I can mix all spells ! Hail of Stone is only one spell.

    How you bypass ?

    Greater Arcane Fusion
    slot 7 Limited Wish : Creeping Darkness
    slot 4 SolidFOG
    +Dimension lock?


    Inside antimagic field, My dragon with Snake Swift,mass use imobilization action.
    Why u think about shivering touch?
    Last edited by LordDrako; 2015-05-14 at 10:27 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #1215
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselGuy View Post
    Does this mean we can post illegitimate arguments?
    I am going to go with, yes, yes it does. Try starting with "My argument has no defense" and go from there.

  16. - Top - End - #1216
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WeaselGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Your argument was fathered by the blacksmith!
    Oh yeah? Well your father was a hamster, and your mother smelled of elderberries!

    also,
    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    I am not kicked any forum!? its fake.
    Yes, i alread prove 100x i am qualify. Are you deaf or blind? Or You want me to draw?

    Make your wizard build, lets go see it.
    I am countered? Serious? Metagaming? stop cry and lets go your "RAW" build.
    If I was blind, I doubt I would be reading this forum (although I reckon modern technology has given us the ability to have text read to us. God, that would be painful...) and even if I was deaf, it wouldn't matter with regards to reading a forum, unless I was also blind, and had to rely on previously mentioned text-to-speech conversion software.

    Also, my comment about the computer reading his text is not intended to be an attack on his command of the English language, I am actually quite impressed that he does as well as he has been. I know that I personally can not speak more than one language with any passable respect, so I will give him legit props in that aspect. It would suck though for the computer to read any forum posts out loud though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ComaVision View Post
    My ten foot pole and I are going to go prod less dangerous traps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Your hexblade turns out to be a holy sword imbued with the spirit of R Lee Ermey. "Stand up straight, maggot! Shoulders back, chin up, eyes front, and suck in that gut! I'm going to make a man out of you, maggot, even if it kills you!"
    My Extended Sig!
    Kobold Weasel Rider Avatar done by ThePrez1776
    House Min'Doan PbP - Zif'coip Min'Doan

  17. - Top - End - #1217
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    You still thinking about how bypass this "trick"???

    I still have more "tricks" inside greater arcane fusion

  18. - Top - End - #1218
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Flickerdart's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by WeaselGuy View Post
    Oh yeah? Well your father was a hamster, and your mother smelled of elderberries!
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    I can mix all spells ! Hail of Stone is only one spell.

    How you bypass ?

    Greater Arcane Fusion
    slot 7 Limited Wish : Creeping Darkness
    slot 4 SolidFOG
    +Dimension lock?


    Inside antimagic field, My dragon with Snake Swift,mass use imobilization action.
    Why u think about shivering touch?
    You attacked an illusion. The real wizard appears behind you and surgically extracts your spine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  19. - Top - End - #1219
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    I need study!
    I think that of all the things you've said in this thread, this is the one that we can all agree with.

  20. - Top - End - #1220
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    WeaselGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!
    But I thought being a Musteval Gish would be a good idea!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ComaVision View Post
    My ten foot pole and I are going to go prod less dangerous traps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Your hexblade turns out to be a holy sword imbued with the spirit of R Lee Ermey. "Stand up straight, maggot! Shoulders back, chin up, eyes front, and suck in that gut! I'm going to make a man out of you, maggot, even if it kills you!"
    My Extended Sig!
    Kobold Weasel Rider Avatar done by ThePrez1776
    House Min'Doan PbP - Zif'coip Min'Doan

  21. - Top - End - #1221
    Banned
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!


    You attacked an illusion. The real wizard appears behind you and surgically extracts your spine.

    LOL, fail.
    1 True Seeing
    2 High save
    3 You cant detect me.
    4 you cant teleport.

  22. - Top - End - #1222
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    RedMage125's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    I am not kicked any forum!? its fake.
    Yes, i alread prove 100x i am qualify. Are you deaf or blind? Or You want me to draw?
    And your "proof" was countered. To which all you said was "I already proved it"

    If I said to you, The ocean is red, here is some proof I made up.
    And you countered it with evidence that it is blue.
    If I respond with "I already proved that it's red, you're wrong".
    That doesn't make me right.
    Make your wizard build, lets go see it.
    I am countered? Serious? Metagaming? stop cry and lets go your "RAW" build.
    The partial build I posted can counter greater arcane fusion, and once I do, YOU will be subjected to your own arcane fusion, to include the solid fog and creeping darkness spells.

    And that's LOW-Op.
    Red Mage avatar by Aedilred.

    Where do you fit in? (link fixed)

    RedMage Prestige Class!

    Best advice I've ever heard one DM give another:
    "Remember that it is both a game and a story. If the two conflict, err on the side of cool, your players will thank you for it."

    Second Eternal Foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

  23. - Top - End - #1223
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    GilesTheCleric's Avatar

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    I am not kicked any forum!? its fake.
    Yes, i alread prove 100x i am qualify. Are you deaf or blind? Or You want me to draw?

    Make your wizard build, lets go see it.
    I am countered? Serious? Metagaming? stop cry and lets go your "RAW" build.
    Quote Originally Posted by ELH 39
    Bluff
    Task: Display false alignment
    DC: 70

    Display False Alignment: You can fool alignment-sensing effects by displaying a false alignment of your choice. Once set, a false alignment remains as long as you remain conscious and awake. Setting or changing a false align- ment requires a full-round action.
    The key word here is "effects". If we look at the definition for prestige classes, we can see that their requirements are requirements, not effects:

    Quote Originally Posted by DMG 176
    Prestige Classes
    Prestige classes offer a new form of multiclassing. Unlike the basic classes found in the Player’s Handbook, characters must meet requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. The rules for level advancement (see page 58 of the Player’s Handbook) apply to this system, meaning the first step of advancement is always choosing a class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before that first step, that character cannot take the first level of that prestige class.

    For example, the requirements to become an assassin are any evil alignment, 8 ranks in Move Silently, 8 ranks in Hide, 4 ranks in Dis- guise, and the candidate must kill some- one for no other reason than to join the assassins. Any rogue can meet the skill requirements at 5th level (see Table 3–2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits, page 22 of the Player’s Handbook, for class skill max ranks). When such a rogue gains enough experience points to reach 6th level, she can take her first level of assassin.
    Effects are in relation to spells and other things of that nature:

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 175
    Effect:Some spells, such as summon monster spells, create or summon things rather than affecting things that are already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it (for example, “The insect plague will appear 20 feet into the area of darkness that the nagas are hiding in”). Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile (a summoned monster, for instance), it can move regardless of the spell’s range.
    Quote Originally Posted by RC 134
    Effect:Some spells create or summon objects or creatures rather than affecting what is already present. You must designate the location where these things are to appear, either by seeing it or defining it. Range determines how far away an effect can appear, but if the effect is mobile it can move regardless of the spell’s range. You must have line of effect (page 80) to any space in which you wish to create an effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by MM1 315
    Special Abilities:
    ...
    For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHB 136
    Saving Throws
    Fortitude: These saves measure your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health. Apply your Constitution modifier to your Fortitude saving throws. Fortitude saves can be made against attacks or effects such as poison, disease, paralysis, petrification, energy drain, and disintegrate.
    Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws. Reflex saves can be made against attacks or effects such as pit traps, catching on fire, fireball, lighting bolt, and red dragon breath.
    Will: These saves reflect your resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects. Apply your Wisdom modifier to your Will saving throws. Will saves can be made against attacks or effects such as charm person, hold person, and most illusion spells.
    So you can see that effects are not in the requirements for prestige classes, and thus cannot be affected by epic bluff.

    "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!" – Kubrick, "Dr. Strangelove"
    I do still exist. I'm active on discord. Priestess of Neptune#8648

  24. - Top - End - #1224
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Greater Arcane fusion = I win button.


    Quote Originally Posted by RedMage125 View Post
    And your "proof" was countered. To which all you said was "I already proved it"

    If I said to you, The ocean is red, here is some proof I made up.
    And you countered it with evidence that it is blue.
    If I respond with "I already proved that it's red, you're wrong".
    That doesn't make me right.

    The partial build I posted can counter greater arcane fusion, and once I do, YOU will be subjected to your own arcane fusion, to include the solid fog and creeping darkness spells.

    And that's LOW-Op.
    Sorry, but you are "theory" guy.
    Without build, to proof it, you will be ignored.
    Last edited by LordDrako; 2015-05-14 at 10:39 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #1225
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    LOL, fail.
    1 True Seeing
    2 High save
    3 You cant detect me.
    4 you cant teleport.
    1: True Seeing only works out to 120ft, and can be countered by things like Invisible Spell or simulacra.
    2: It's trivial to jack up DCs to the point where if you have to roll a save at all then you lose.
    3: Mindsight. Yes I can.
    4: Who said anything about teleporting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  26. - Top - End - #1226
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Mindsight? - 1 caster level, -1 feat.

    MindBlank


    Stop theory! Lets go a build with it!
    Last edited by LordDrako; 2015-05-14 at 10:44 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #1227
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    LordDrako but how will you defense against no offense when RAW is not legal?
    Again sorcerer king = fail

    ultmiate sorcerer king

  28. - Top - End - #1228
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    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDrako View Post
    Mindsight? - 1 caster level, -1 feat.

    MindBlank
    Mind Blank does not protect against Mindsight. Taking Mindsight does not cost a level, and feats are not a real limitation.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2015-05-14 at 10:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

  29. - Top - End - #1229
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    I decided to elaborate on why I think he qualifies by RAW, even if it is not going to fly on any table.

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    *Prerequisite stuff*

    From this, it looks like the pre-reqs are okay, so long as you're Neutral on the good-evil axis. However, if you look at the rules of taint from UA:

    Quote Originally Posted by UA 191
    Embracing Taint
    Once a character’s taint score reaches 10 (assuming he is still alive), he may (emphasis mine) seek out forces of great evil and pledge himself to their cause. Often evil cults, temples of evil deities, and the militaries of evil warlords eagerly accept such pledges, giving the character access to new sources of power (see Tainted Prestige Classes, below).
    Quote Originally Posted by UA 189
    Taint and Alignment
    ...

    Alternatively, taint can be used in addition to alignment. While characters with a minor amount of taint aren’t necessarily evil,they probably are. The more taint they acquire, the more evil they become. The DM should monitor taint carefully and provide a warning when a character disregards its effect, just as he would when a character acts outside his alignment.
    ...
    From this, we see that taint makes you evil.
    It is not written that you become evil once acquiring 10 points of Taint. It is left for the DM only to tell you that you're becoming evil but not explicitly written. Therefore, I'd say that one does not have to become evil from high Taint by RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    However, there's more to the system since you've used Tainted Sorcerer:

    Quote Originally Posted by UA 193
    Tainted Spellcasting
    Rather than using a key ability score for spellcasting, a tainted sorcerer uses her taint score. To cast a spell, a tainted sorcerer must have a taint score at least equal to the spell’s level. Tainted sorcerer bonus spells are based on a number equal to the character’s taint score + 10, and saving throws against tainted sorcerer spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + the tainted sorcerer’s taint score.

    A tainted sorcerer accumulates taint for casting her spells. All spells a tainted sorcerer casts are evil spells. She must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + spell level) or increase her taint score by 1
    This means a few things. First of all, in order to cast 9th level spells, you need a taint of 9. Because of Taint Suppression (UA 192), "A tainted sorcerer no longer applies her taint score as a penalty to her Constitution, and only applies one-half her taint score as a penalty to her Wisdom". At the entry to the class, you'll have at least 4 taint and thus a -2 to Wisdom; by level twenty, you'll have at least 9 taint and thus -4 to wisdom. However, you also gain taint every time you fail a saving throw (for you, probably only on a 1).

    *Calculations*

    Quote Originally Posted by Relevant quote from UA, p. 193
    A tainted sorcerer accumulates taint for casting her spells. All spells a tainted sorcerer casts are evil spells. She must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + spell level) or increase her taint score by 1
    Even if we assume that 10 Taint = Evil, he can still sit on 9 Taint just as if nothing happened if he has a way to not fail his saving throws ever, even on natural one, which is not so difficult to achieve. That allows him to cast 9-level spells, which is enough for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    There's ways to remove taint, so this shouldn't be a problem, right? Well, it still is:

    Quote Originally Posted by UA 191
    Cleansing Taint
    It is possible to remove taint from characters in several ways, including through the use of spells, the performance of good deeds, and cleansing in a sacred spring. Taint cannot be removed unless the tainted character wants to be cleansed.
    *stuff*
    Well, that's where things are so bad - he can say that his character seeks to be cleansed just because there's nothing is the rules which prevents him from this, even if this is completely ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by GilesTheCleric View Post
    In short, there's no way to have both tainted sorcerer and spellguard of silverymoon.
    I would wholeheartedly agree with you if we were speaking about any reasonable game but this is rules argument which is entirely different (And this is one of the reasons I don't like that kinds of optimization myself, preferring actual builds for actual games)

  30. - Top - End - #1230
    Banned
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2015

    Default Re: Who is better, Optimized Wizard or Optimized Sorcerer? Yes, Sorcerer is a GOD.

    Without argument. You alread failed.

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