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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Deities as type and template

    I never much liked the way deities were handled in D&D; I wanted more real, approachable, relatable deities, sort of like they were portrayed in the God of War series of videogames. To that end, I established a new creature type: Deity, as well as the Deity and Ex-Deity templates. These should function regardless of the methods of acquiring or possessing divinity that one decides to use for their campaign.

    Deity Type
    Features
    • 20-sized Hit Dice.
    • Base attack bonus equal to HD (as fighter).
    • Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
    • Rather than gaining skill ranks, a creature with the deity type automatically possesses maximum ranks in all skills as appropriate for their racial or class skills.


    Traits
    Deities are immune to ability damage, ability drain, death effects, disease, disintegration, energy drain, mind-affecting effects, nonlethal damage, petrification, poison, polymorphing, sleep, and stunning.
    Proficient with any weapon, armor, or shield it has proficiency with due to class levels or a previous creature type, as well as any weapon, armor, or shield it has crafted at least once.
    If a deity is slain, it cannot be resurrected by any mortal or divine magic.
    Supernatural abilities used or possessed by a deity are treated as artifacts or artifact-originating effects for the purposes of any effect that interacts differently with artifacts, such as antimagic field and disjunction.
    Deities do not need to eat, sleep, breathe, or age (though they may choose to do so).

    Deity Template - Creating a Deity
    "Deity" is a template that can be acquired or inherited (depending on the campaign or circumstances) that can be added to any creature with at least 20 Hit Dice and at least 1 class level, who has attained divinity in some way (or was born into it). A deity uses the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size: The creature's size increases by 5 size categories, to a maximum of Colossal.
    Type: The creature's type changes to deity; recalculate base attack bonus and saves gained from existing racial HD.
    Hit Dice: Increase all current and future HD to d20s. Deities gain maximum hit points for each HD.
    Speed: The creature's speed increases appropriately if below the following minimum values:
    Size Speed
    Large 30ft/rd
    Huge 40ft/rd
    Gargantuan 50ft/rd
    Armor Class: The base creature's natural armor equals its HD, and it gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to its new Charisma modifier plus 10. In both cases, if the base creature's value would be higher, use that instead.
    Special Attacks
    Epic Aligned Strike (Su): All attacks made by a deity, whether with natural or manufactured weapons, are treated as being made with epic weapons that are also aligned according to the deity's non-neutral alignment components, for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
    Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At will, the deity can cast any domain spells of domains it can grant (see Portfolio) of 6th level or lower, plus any two spells of each of these levels of its choice, selected upon gaining the template. It can cast any domain spells it can grant of 7th through 9th level, plus any two spells of each of these levels of its choice, 3/day.
    Spontaneous Cleric Spellcasting: The creature gains the ability to cast spells as a cleric whose level equals its HD. It gains no other benefits of the cleric class, and this spellcasting overlaps (does not stack with) any existing cleric casting. Arcane casting and divine casting from other classes is unaffected. In addition, rather than selecting and preparing spells at the beginning of the day like a normal cleric, the deity can cast any spell from the cleric spell list spontaneously.
    Special Qualities
    Archetypal Form (Su): The exact form of a deity is inimitable. Any attempts to duplicate or imitate the form of a deity with any degree of accuracy (imitating an elf does not qualify as imitating an elf god, for instance) automatically fails.
    Divine Body (Su): The deity's body itself is a powerful conduit/source of divine energy. Whenever the deity casts a spell (whether by virtue of the spontaneous cleric spellcasting ability above or other class levels or abilities, such as those possessed by a dragon), it need not provide any material components, arcane focus, or XP cost. Its body functions as a divine focus, holy/unholy symbol, and a literal temple (for functions such as a consecrate spell, or rituals which must be performed at a temple or other sacred place).
    Divine Form (Su): A deity has a natural form, but can also choose to take any form it desires. It is constantly under the effects of a shapechange spell, as cast by a wizard of its HD. It can also choose simply to change its size, while maintaining all other aspects of its current form (including Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and natural armor).
    Divine Luck (Su): Any time the deity rolls a natural 1 on any die, it may choose to reroll that die, repeating as necessary until a result of 2 or greater is attained.
    Blindsense (Ex): The creature gains blindsense to a range of 500ft.
    Darkvision (Ex): The creature gains darkvision to a range of 500ft.
    Fast Healing (Ex): The deity heals a number of hit points at the beginning of each of its turns equal to its HD.
    Greater Arcane Sight (Su): As the spell, constantly active on the deity.
    Portfolio: Arguably the most important aspect of a deity's existence is its portfolio. This serves as the thematic concept for the deity's rulership, and is what allows it to grant spells to its followers. To construct its portfolio, the deity must select any four domains; good creatures cannot select the Evil domain, and vice versa, and likewise for chaos and law. These four domains are available for selection by clerics who follow the deity; additionally, the deity permanently possesses the domain-granted benefit for all four domains selected. In addition to the four domains, the deity selects 25 skills, which are forever treated as class skills henceforth; as a creature of the deity type, it immediately gains skill ranks if necessary to possess the maximum ranks in all skills. Finally, the deity gains four bonus feats, which must be relevant in some way to the portfolio described.
    Regeneration (Su): A deity possesses regeneration in an amount equal to 3/4 its HD, rounded down. This regeneration can only be bypassed by epic weapons which are aligned opposite at least one of the deity's non-neutral alignment components. If the deity is purely neutral, the weapon need only be epic.
    Resistances (Ex): The deity possesses resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic equal to twice its HD (or complete immunity, if the base creature has 50 or more HD).
    See in Darkness (Su): All deities can see perfectly in complete darkness, even magical darkness, to the extent of their normal visual range or 500ft, whichever is greater.
    Spell Immunity (Su): A deity is immune to any spell whose level is 9th or lower. (Spells of 10th level or higher, including those modified by Improved Heighten Spell, as well as epic spells, are thus the only spells which can affect it.)
    Spell Resistance (Ex): A deity possesses spell resistance equal to its HD plus 10.
    Superior Low-Light Vision (Ex): A deity can see six times as well as a human in conditions of twilight, moonlight, and other low-light conditions.
    Telepathy (Su): Deities can communicate with any creature with an Intelligence score which is located within a one-mile radius.
    True Seeing (Su): As the spell, constantly active on the deity.
    Saving Throws: Whenever a deity fails its saving throw, it may make a second attempt immediately. This is useable once per saving throw offered.
    Abilities: All ability scores increase from the base creature's value by +10. The deity may select a single ability score to receive an additional +10 increase. This can raise a nonability from "-" to 10 or 20, except in the case of granting Constitution scores to constructs of undead, or granting a Strength score to an incorporeal creature that does not possess the ability to manifest.
    Epic Feats: The creature gains three bonus epic feats of their choice. It may select ordinary feats instead, if desired.
    Environment: Any, typically an outer plane with matching alignment components.
    Challenge Rating: As base creature, plus 10, plus an amount equal to its HD. When the deity gains additional HD, this CR adjustment increases by 1, to match the new HD total.
    Advancement: By character class.
    Level Adjustment: Deities are not suitable for player characters in most campaigns.

    Ex-Deities
    Sometimes, through great transgression or twist of fate, a deity may lose its status in the pantheon. When this happens, it is sent to the Material Plane, and loses its godly power, in some cases becoming weaker than mortals in some regards.
    Creating an Ex-Deity
    "Ex-Deity" is an acquired template that can be applied to any creature which already possess the "deity" template. Use all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

    Size and Type: Decrease size by 4 size categories (thus, a Colossal deity becomes Medium). Type is unchanged
    Armor Class: Lose any natural armor and deflection bonuses possessed.
    Special Attacks: Lose all divine spellcasting ability.
    Special Qualities: Lose all magic sensory abilities, as well as any regeneration, fast healing, and resistance or immunity to elements (except those granted by the cold or fire subtypes).
    Abilities: Decrease all ability scores by -10, to a minimum of 1 (or 3 for Intelligence).
    Special: Lose all benefits of the "deity" template, except for size (which is modified by this template instead) and type (which is unchanged). Lose all divine ranks (if any) and their granted benefits.
    Challenge Rating: See Special.
    Level Adjustment: -

    Divine Ranks
    A newly-created deity has a divine rank of zero. Once it accumulates 5000 mortal followers, it gains divine rank 1. Afterward, additional divine ranks are earned when the number of mortal followers the deity has equals ten times the amount of XP a character would need to gain the same-numbered level. That is, in order to gain divine rank 6, a deity must have an ten times as many mortal followers as a character would need in XP to achieve character level 6. Each divine rank grants the deity one salient divine ability, one epic (or regular) feat of their choice, and a cumulative +1 bonus to base attack bonus, initiative, and all base saves. (This cannot grant the deity more than four attacks with a single full attack action.) Each divine rank also increases the deity's CR by 1.
    Optional rule: When a deity slays another, it absorbs a fraction of its power. The killer gains a number of virtual followers, equal to 10x the amount of XP a character whose level equals their divine rank would gain for slaying a creature whose CR equals the divine rank of the slain god. These virtual followers cannot be lost, even if the deity becomes very unpopular, and thus serve as a sort of security for it.

    The amount of "divine rank xp" gained my have to be adjusted according to the number of gods in your setting, the level of power you want them to have, and the world population.
    Last edited by ezkajii; 2015-05-28 at 01:15 PM.
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    My main concern here is whether the CR seems appropriate. I know Deities & Demigods' approach was to leave them un-CR'd, but if one was to give the gods a CR, is this good?
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    If you want approachable deities, use avatars of them. I generally don't like it when the PCs decide to take on Odin and proceed to kill him. I have far less of a problem with the PCs deciding to off an avatar.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    I actually specifically like the idea of the actual god being able to be killed. Does it seem reasonable in terms of challenge actually fighting a deity?
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Puny gods.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    So you're saying they're dramatically underpowered? I was shooting for something that a decently-optimized 50th-level character could take down in a good, solid fight. What abilities would you add or what would you change to bring it up?
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Not sure why your gods HD are d20 if you actually want the PCs to kill them. And they are slow. Large creatures usually have a base speed of 40 feet. Epic levels work differently since it all scales up. A PC is gonna have epic weapons before deciding to take on a deity unless he's foolhardy or stupid or both.

    Unless the base creature has natural spellcasting or levels in a spellcasting class, spontaneous clerical casting won't be a part of it.

    I want to meet the god of bad luck who never rerolls a 1 given the chance. We can call him Bob the Demented.

    What constitutes a transgression for a god to become an Ex-god? Do his followers just stop believing in him? Find a new god, kill his priests and the people who believe in him and make him an ex-god is not a bad plan for the PCs.

    Actually once the PCs get their hands on epic weapons and epics spells, a deity is pretty much toast. Before that, the PCs are hosed. I'm not a fan of that model.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2015-05-20 at 04:26 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Not sure why your gods HD are d20 if you actually want the PCs to kill them.
    Well you can still kill them, they're just particularly hardy. I don't know that a d20 is hugely different from a d12 for health.
    And they are slow. Large creatures usually have a base speed of 40 feet.
    True. I thought about that when I was writing it up, but I wasn't sure the best way to go about it. Do you think it would make more sense to have higher minimum speeds, or just grant a flat speed bonus? I suppose either way they'll likely be buffing themselves anyway.
    Epic levels work differently since it all scales up. A PC is gonna have epic weapons before deciding to take on a deity unless he's foolhardy or stupid or both.
    Also true, although the weapon has to also be oppositely-aligned to bypass the regeneratoin so that shouldn't be a big issue. Unless there's something I'm forgetting about epic weapons, generally.
    Unless the base creature has natural spellcasting or levels in a spellcasting class, spontaneous clerical casting won't be a part of it.
    I'm not sure what you mean? The template grants the spellcasting itself.
    What constitutes a transgression for a god to become an Ex-god? Do his followers just stop believing in him? Find a new god, kill his priests and the people who believe in him and make him an ex-god is not a bad plan for the PCs.
    That would depend on how you deal with godhood in your campaign. In my own, a mortal can ascend if a certain quorum of extant deities vote to allow it, and can be made to fall by similar vote.
    Actually once the PCs get their hands on epic weapons and epics spells, a deity is pretty much toast. Before that, the PCs are hosed. I'm not a fan of that model.
    Why is it that epic weapons/spells automatically mean the deity's destruction? I'm legitimately curious. The deity should have epic magic and gear themselves, as well. Also, what would you propose as an alternative?
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkajii View Post
    Well you can still kill them, they're just particularly hardy. I don't know that a d20 is hugely different from a d12 for health.
    d12 gives you 6.5 hit points on average while d20 gives you 10.5. Overpowered since this requires at least 21 HD.

    True. I thought about that when I was writing it up, but I wasn't sure the best way to go about it. Do you think it would make more sense to have higher minimum speeds, or just grant a flat speed bonus? I suppose either way they'll likely be buffing themselves anyway.
    same as base creature + 10 feet for each size category they grow larger, to a maximum of Colossal size.

    Also true, although the weapon has to also be oppositely-aligned to bypass the regeneration so that shouldn't be a big issue. Unless there's something I'm forgetting about epic weapons, generally.
    They shouldn't encounter this unless they have the appropriate weapon. It's a TPK.

    I'm not sure what you mean? The template grants the spellcasting itself.
    Oops missed that one

    That would depend on how you deal with godhood in your campaign. In my own, a mortal can ascend if a certain quorum of extant deities vote to allow it, and can be made to fall by similar vote.
    Fair enough.

    Why is it that epic weapons/spells automatically mean the deity's destruction? I'm legitimately curious. The deity should have epic magic and gear themselves, as well. Also, what would you propose as an alternative?
    Creature has to have at least 20 HD to start plus1 HD for a class before you add the template. It then gains this "As base creature, plus 10, plus an amount equal to its HD. When the deity gains additional HD, this CR adjustment increases by 1, to match the new HD total." CR for base creature, +1 for its class level (required), +10, plus amount equal to its HD. so that's CR 32 minimum plus whatever CR the base creature has. Too much epic for me.
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2015-05-21 at 12:13 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    d12 gives you 6.5 hit points on average while d20 gives you 10.5. Overpowered since this requires at least 21 HD.
    Also, I had forgotten, but deities always get maximum hp per HD, which makes sense to me since Paragon creatures and Dragon Ascendants get that same feature. I can see how this results in deities having quite a bit of health, but considering that because of the CR adjustment, they'll usually have less than 1/2 the HD the PC's do, to be on-CR, so I think it probably matters less, especially considering the effects that scale off HD.

    same as base creature + 10 feet for each size category they grow larger, to a maximum of Colossal size.
    Sounds good to me! Edited into OP.

    They shouldn't encounter this unless they have the appropriate weapon. It's a TPK.
    You mean, they shouldn't be attempting to take on the god without the appropriate weapon? That's probably true. Though even with the right weapon the deity has a pretty hefty fast healing.
    When you say It's a TPK, what are you referring to, exactly? The phrasing has me a tad confused.

    Too much epic for me.
    Fair. I know a lot of people really hate epic stuff, but I figured for deity stats it's really the only way it can make sense.
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Have you considered just using the pathfinder mythic system?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    I'm actually not familiar with that, I'll look into that and see what it looks like.
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic

    The difference is that DnD is more like lord of the rings and mythic dnd is like the trials of hercules.
    Last edited by Hanuman; 2015-05-23 at 12:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    If you do end up using mythic, you can stat gods as creatures with 9 mythic tiers and the divine source ability (so they can bestow all 9 levels of spells), and end up with gods of CR's from 5 to 30.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Deities as type and template

    Hmm, looking at the mythic abilities, it seems more like it's for mortal creatures approaching divinity, rather than being useful for representing divinity itself. It's certainly an interesting concept and I think I'll draw on it, borrowing some mythic abilities to be selectable like a salient divine ability. (Likewise, I'll probably cut some of those, for my own campaign.) I definitely want the gods to be epic challenges, and require specially-prepared adventurers in order to be conquered.

    As it is, does it seem like, say, a level 50 character (assuming a reworked Epic Spellcasting system) would be a fair challenge for one of the deities made with this template? I don't want them to be underpowered but I also don't want them to be literally undefeatable.
    Last edited by ezkajii; 2015-05-26 at 11:31 AM.
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

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