another character alignment question

[Ettina]

OK, this guy has been enslaved by a villain for several years, and gone through horrible things. Now, he's willing to do anything to make that villain suffer, no matter what the cost. He'd sacrifice an entire kingdom of people if that could get him his revenge. He's become numb to anyone else's pain or suffering, all he allows himself to feel is anger.

[Jay R]

No question. He is perfectly willing to hurt people beyond any rational measure to achieve his goals; he's Evil.

He has a set plan and goal that he will stick to, no matter what. He's clearly Lawful

[Darth Ultron]

Chaotic Evil, he cares only about himself and his revenge.

[Kane0]

In theory, LN/TN/CN. In practice, LE/NE/CE.

He doesn't care about anything than himself and his vengeance, but that isn't evil until he starts doing stuff along the same lines. Uncaring isn't evil per se. Same thing with anger management issues.
How he goes about it and how he treats others in day to day life will define it more clearly. How does he act when his target is not in the picture? How well does he plan out his actions?

Why not just write down SM (single minded) or TD (tortured & driven)?

[veti]

I'd go with CE.

Evil, obviously, because he wilfully, completely disregards the interests of innocents in the pursuit of his own cause.

And chaotic, because he puts his own personal feelings ahead of everything else - he doesn't pay any attention to anything other than the little voice in his own head saying "kill! suffer! burn!".

[Ashtagon]

Based on what's written, neutral.

Alignment is not about what a character will do; it's about what he has done.

As written, it's likely that he'll descend into evil, but he hasn't actually done that.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...69&postcount=7

[Sacrieur]

Someone explain to me why he would be CE. If he's doing it because he's got a score to settle, it's NE.

[veti]

Based on what's written, neutral.

Alignment is not about what a character will do; it's about what he has done.

By that logic, every starting character should be True Neutral.

Admittedly that might solve a lot of problems, but it'd create a lot more.

Someone explain to me why he would be CE. If he's doing it because he's got a score to settle, it's NE.

Because:

"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility.

whereas

Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority

Sounds to me like this character is well into chaotic territory. Also:

A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do.

... which sounds pretty much spot on.

[goto124]

What are the problems with starting as TN?

[veti]

What are the problems with starting as TN?

Well, there's the obvious (can't play a paladin or monk, can't play a cleric of a corner-alignment deity).

Then there's the more subtle: having to "earn" your alignment means that you have to deliberately act up for the DM's benefit. Generally it takes quite a while for a DM to shift a PC's alignment based on their behaviour. And how do you go about "earning" a chaotic alignment? I don't even want to be at the table when someone is trying to answer that question.

Maintaining an alignment you've already got is relatively simple, you just have to make reasonable calls more often than not when the opportunity comes up, you don't have to spend your entire life running around looking for opportunities to prove yourself...

Starting alignment is just that: starting.

[TheIronGolem]

He has a set plan and goal that he will stick to, no matter what. He's clearly Lawful

Chaotic and Neutral characters can do that do. He's not "clearly" anywhere on the Law/Chaos axis, based on what the OP has told us.

[Ettina]

I didn't mention actions because very few of his actions right now are determined by his own choices. He's under mostly continuous mind control as part of his slavery.

[Seto]

Ooooh, I have a villain like that in my campaign. Once a Good King wrongly imprisoned in the Nine Hells, he managed to break out. The difference is, he's been driven mad. Now a powerful lich, he regularly calls Devils to the Prime and takes pleasure in torturing them.

Mine is obviously CE, and I think yours is as well (or, as others have said, he will be as soon as he frees himself from mind-control and starts willingly erasing every obstacle to his revenge). The madness isn't the driving factor : the driving factor is indulging limitlessly in his own feelings and will. His driving force and the rule for his actions are pain and anger ; they're internal rather than external. He follows his own will and guts regardless of what any other person or rule might have to say about it ; that's Chaotic.

[Ettina]

By that logic, every starting character should be True Neutral.

Why? Most starting characters aren't supposed to have suddenly popped into being at the start of the campaign (even if players sometimes act that way). They're supposed to have backstories, and those backstories signal their alignment.

[Maglubiyet]

OK, this guy has been enslaved by a villain for several years, and gone through horrible things. Now, he's willing to do anything to make that villain suffer, no matter what the cost. He'd sacrifice an entire kingdom of people if that could get him his revenge. He's become numb to anyone else's pain or suffering, all he allows himself to feel is anger.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but so far you've only stated his intentions, not his actual actions. If he's severely crippled or extremely old and feeble due to his years of enslavement, the only thing he may be able to do now is hate. To pass the time, he still might help his landlady with the gardening or teach his young nephew the basics of herbology -- ostensibly Good actions -- even if his heart is a raging inferno of vengeful thoughts. His body may not be up to the challenge.

Even if he's not incapacitated physically, he still may be in no position to enact his revenge. The character's finances/debts might force him to work 15 hours a day -- he might barely be able to pay the rent, much less "sacrifice an entire kingdom of people". The villain may be too powerful, unapproachable, or distant for the character to do anything about him.

So, if all the character can do is dream about revenge, his alignment reflects his day-to-day interactions, not the content of his thoughts.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Without knowing his methods, i'd say some degree of neutral. However with the methods that said stuff is normally associated with, I would say evil, most likely of the Neutral Variety, as it is about himself.

[Keltest]

With what you've described, very definitely chaotic neutral, however he would more than likely become evil if he ever went full out on the villain, the way you describe he is willing to.