Pale Master - Combat Monster

[JellyPooga]

O.k. so as written it's not, but I've always got the impression that it either a)want's to be or b)should be.

I mean you get a nifty touch attack jobby and +4 Str, both of which have limited use for a primary spellcaster with d4 Hit Die. The Undead immunities are useful, but I'd imagine they would be better for a combat type. Animate Dead and Control Undead 1/day? Woooo...sorry, that should be 'woooo', it doesn't deserve the capital letter. Much better suited as a flavour thing for a combat or skill chappy than a full caster (who can do them multiple times per day anyway).

Does anyone else share my opinion?

(Oh, before anyone says "why don't you homebrew a combat version?" I am in the process of doing so and will be posting it soon, next couple of days or so. When it is up [in Homebrew obviously], I'd appreciate some feedback, I have a tendency to miss things sometimes and may have over-powered it)

[Person_Man]

It's garbage.

It misses too many caster levels to be effectively used with a full caster build.

The special abilities can be more easily and more powerful replicated by a normal full caster.

It has poor hit points and poor BAB, making it useless for a Gish build.

[JellyPooga]

That's rather my point. The special abilities of the class seem to me to be better suited to a combat or skill character that's dabbled somewhat in spellcasting.

If the spellcasting was nerfed to half or lower progression (so it's more there for the fluff than an actual feature of the class), the HD increased to d8 (or higher maybe) and the B.A.B increased to 3/4 or full, the class might actually be worth taking (given less spellcasting requirements and more combat oriented ones, maybe). Mabe not for every PC that walks down the road, but a combat or skill chappy that's dabbled in the dark arts (I'm thinking particularly of Rogues here who could probably use some undead minions to provide some much needed flanking and or cover), might actually be able to use it.

I mean, what does the class give (beside spellcasting):

Reduced Arcane Spell Failure for Undead Armours - a Full Caster shouldn't be in a position where armour matters anyway. Full/Half Combat Arcane Dabbler could use it (if not needs it)

Control Undead on touch for very short time - Again, a Full Caster in touch range of an Undead foe is doing something wrong.

Undead Graft - +4 Str and melee touch attack. See previous comment.

Undead Immunities - These count when being hit by other stuff. Full Caster being hit = dead anyways, regardless of said immunities.

The only other ability is Animate Dead for free once per day. So you save a couple of gp here and there...big whoop.

Hell, even the fluff given about NPC Pale Masters suggests that they might/should be combat oriented...(can't remember the exact quote, but it's something like)

"They often lead strike teams of lesser undead, sometimes bolstered by more powerful summoned undead."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but leading a strike team doesn't suggest sitting at the back giving orders (that would be leading an army or nation), to me, leading a strike team is something akin to what Arnies character in Predator does; he is the front line, his squad is just backup.

[Tor the Fallen]

Take a look at the Swiftblade on the wizard's site. Little better than half caster, two good saves, full BAB, d6 hit die, 4 skill points per level, and some rather kick ass abilities.

There would be no problem with upping the pale master's HD to d6 and giving either full BAB or 3/4 BAB with 3/4 casting.

[Maerok]

It's garbage.

It misses too many caster levels to be effectively used with a full caster build.

The special abilities can be more easily and more powerful replicated by a normal full caster.

It has poor hit points and poor BAB, making it useless for a Gish build.

The only version I've seen was with the first level missing casting (or any abilities at all). Did a previous version have like half-casting or something?