Erfworld thread V: Baddie Will Not Post In Thread

[EnragedFilia]

Spoiler: Politik und Symbol

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Black sun/Swastika is a Hindu symbol appropriated by Nazi Germany.

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I have never seen the Manji called that, and it appears the term Black Sun refers to a much more obscure symbol.

[-D-]

@EngragedFilia: Hm, you might be right. I was sure they referred to swastika as black sun somewhere. Still. Even if he wore it, it would be quite ominous!

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If anyone that wishes to tell me Charlie is good to his Archons and his Archons aren't brainwashed puppets, now is time to tell me.

[Kantaki]

If anyone that wishes to tell me Charlie is good to his Archons and his Archons aren't brainwashed puppets, now is time to tell me.

Well, until today I would have said Charlie (and his Side) isn't evil. This update changed my mind. I mean what the Archons do there is rather pointless and sadistic. There is no good reason to put a bag over her head or to leave her in the rain. Or to destroy the uniform for that matter. So no I can't say Charlescomm isn't a evil brainwashing cult.

[Ravenlord]

How does brainwashing even work in a world where but a select few (barbarians and rulers) have free will in the first place?

[Quild]

Well, until today I would have said Charlie (and his Side) isn't evil.

Well, this specific page was a strong hint to me.

Charlie takes the appearances of:
Palpatine
Van Doom
Dr. Gero
Agent Smith
General Zod
Khan
The Joker

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Are we talking about the current strip without spoilers again guys? I haven't seen it yet so I'm not sure, but please guys, make sure that happens.

[-D-]

Thought redacted.

[HandofShadows]

How does brainwashing even work in a world where but a select few (barbarians and rulers) have free will in the first place?

You can still turn (torture) captured units to change sides. Jillian's Chief Warlord is a captured unit that turned.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

If this spoils anything. I can only say, Christ came back.

It's from book 2 when Charlie talks to

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Dittomanced Slately

. That's like 1-2 years ago?

Ooops, I didn't mean to quote Quild, but no I meant current strip stuff, not stuff from awhile ago. Just checking to make sure, because I wasn't sure what the actual strip was.

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As for the strip itself, strip is the appropriate word...wow.

[DavidSh]

Not sure about the spoiler rules, but I caught a reference to a musical here.

Spoiler: musical theater reference

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From Bye Bye Birdie:

We love you Conrad
Oh, yes we do
We love you Conrad
And we will be true.

When you're not near us
We're blue.
Oh, Conrad, we love you!

[The Glyphstone]

One tiny thing I noticed that was disproportionately disturbing.

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Amidst the torture, humiliation, and brainwashing, the artist was careful to show that Archons wear thong-style panties. Why was this a key detail we needed to know?

[smuchmuch]

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Well, until today I would have said Charlie (and his Side) isn't evil. This update changed my mind.

Yes, torture and brainwashing, no one in Gowin Knob would ever do that. With a certain talent to

(Seriously if there's a 'good' side in Erfworld compared to the 'evil' ones, someone show it to me)

Amidst the torture, humiliation, and brainwashing, the artist was careful to show that Archons wear thong-style panties. Why was this a key detail we needed to know?

It's not ? What you describe is litteraly a tiny detail barely visible that I honnestly would have never have noticed without your comment. It's hardly 'carefully' showed and not particulary emphasised in any way.

No offense but, while the Archons have been used as fanservice in the past, here the fact you imediatly noticed such a small thing and found it 'disproportionately disturbing' strikes me as more telling about you and the issues you are sensitive about than the comic and it's author.

[NEO|Phyte]

One tiny thing I noticed that was disproportionately disturbing.

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Amidst the torture, humiliation, and brainwashing, the artist was careful to show that Archons wear thong-style panties. Why was this a key detail we needed to know?

It's the little things which make a difference sometimes.

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Stanley, for example.

[The Glyphstone]

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Yes, torture and brainwashing, no one in Gowin Knob would ever do that. With a certain talent to

(Seriously if there's a 'good' side in Erfworld compared to the 'evil' ones, someone show it to me)



It's not ? What you describe is litteraly a tiny detail barely visible that I honnestly would have never have noticed without your comment. It's hardly 'carefully' showed and not particulary emphasised in any way.

No offense but, while the Archons have been used as fanservice in the past, here the fact you imediatly noticed such a small thing and found it 'disproportionately disturbing' strikes me as more telling about you and the issues you are sensitive about than the comic and it's author.

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I find this quite unfair and more than a bit judgmental, actually, considering I never said I 'immediately' noticed it - it just stood out at first as a tiny bit of red color, and I only realized what that was after looking more closely, so what 'issues' you think I'm sensitive about are a mystery - not to mention that I specifically said 'artist', not 'author'.

The rest of your post, though, is just proving my point. It is small and subtle, but the opening in the grasping arms and hands surrounding her is also small, positioned to show that, so it can only be deliberate. It's fanservice in the middle of a brutal torture scene, which I find incredibly out of place and yes, disturbing. There's no comparison to Wanda and Jillian's dysfuntional BDSM dynamic, this is just uni-directional sadism and cruelty, fanservice has no place in the moment.

[Killer Angel]

This world needs Parson. And a lot of cleaning.

Well, until today I would have said Charlie (and his Side) isn't evil.

The way he follows contracts to the letter, abusing them in his favour and twisting their spirit, was surely a sign of a serious lack of moral.

[The Glyphstone]

Charlie is Lawful Evil. His minions, not so Lawful.

[Killer Angel]

Charlie is Lawful Evil. His minions, not so Lawful.

Speaking of contracts, fine prints and Charlie... there's a reason it is said that devil is in the details.

[Jasdoif]

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The rest of your post, though, is just proving my point. It is small and subtle, but the opening in the grasping arms and hands surrounding her is also small, positioned to show that, so it can only be deliberate. It's fanservice in the middle of a brutal torture scene, which I find incredibly out of place and yes, disturbing. There's no comparison to Wanda and Jillian's dysfuntional BDSM dynamic, this is just uni-directional sadism and cruelty, fanservice has no place in the moment.

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Seeing as one of those arms is precisely angled to cover where her breasts would be, I'm not sure "fanservice" is the fairest description, here.

[AgentPaper]

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I find this quite unfair and more than a bit judgmental, actually, considering I never said I 'immediately' noticed it - it just stood out at first as a tiny bit of red color, and I only realized what that was after looking more closely, so what 'issues' you think I'm sensitive about are a mystery - not to mention that I specifically said 'artist', not 'author'.

The rest of your post, though, is just proving my point. It is small and subtle, but the opening in the grasping arms and hands surrounding her is also small, positioned to show that, so it can only be deliberate. It's fanservice in the middle of a brutal torture scene, which I find incredibly out of place and yes, disturbing. There's no comparison to Wanda and Jillian's dysfuntional BDSM dynamic, this is just uni-directional sadism and cruelty, fanservice has no place in the moment.

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Calling it "fanservice" is a bit much. You can see exactly enough to know that she's wearing a thong, without actually seeing the parts that might make seeing someone in a thong exciting. To me, it looks like they were specifically showing that the other Archons were stripping her naked, without actually showing any actual nudity. If they had covered the area you are talking about, all we'd see is her head.

So, no I don't think this is the artist trying to show fanservice in an inappropriate scene, though I can see why you might have thought so. The line is definitely very thin when it comes to this kind of content.

[Kantaki]

If I may rephrase my earlier statement: Until now I wouldn't have pegged Charlie/ his Side as any more evil than the other Players on Erfworld but todays Update changed my mind. While other Sides are willing to use torture and other nasty means as well they usually have a reason to do so. What the Archons do there seems pointless and petty to me.

[The Glyphstone]

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Calling it "fanservice" is a bit much. You can see exactly enough to know that she's wearing a thong, without actually seeing the parts that might make seeing someone in a thong exciting. To me, it looks like they were specifically showing that the other Archons were stripping her naked, without actually showing any actual nudity. If they had covered the area you are talking about, all we'd see is her head.

So, no I don't think this is the artist trying to show fanservice in an inappropriate scene, though I can see why you might have thought so. The line is definitely very thin when it comes to this kind of content.

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Fair enough. It still weirds me out a little to have these two things juxtaposed, and the shreds of red dress being torn away made it clear they were tearing off her uniform without needing to see her underwear, but that makes good sense as to the 'why'.

If I may rephrase my earlier statement: Until now I wouldn't have pegged Charlie/ his Side as any more evil than the other Players on Erfworld but todays Update changed my mind. While other Sides are willing to use torture and other nasty means as well they usually have a reason to do so. What the Archons do there seems pointless and petty to me.

Petty, definitely. Pointless, not so much. From an in-universe perspective, that sort of brutality is a pretty classic means of violent brainwashing/conversion; we see isolation/disorientation (the bag), humiliation/destruction of barriers (the stripping), the breaking of will (bruises and cuts, and left shackled and hooded in the rain), and the beginning of the conversion effort itself (the singing, from inside a warm and dry tent in juxtaposition to the miserable exterior). From an out-of-universe perspective, it shows us the dark side of the Archon's devotion to Charlie...historically, there are few things more savage or brutal than how a cult of personality/other group of fanatics treats 'deserters' from its ranks who have broken faith with their cause. The fact that this archon did not switch sides willingly in the first place is irrelevant to them...she is a traitor to literally everything that their entire world is set up to support and reinforce.

[Chromascope3D]

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Pretty sure it's the Arkendish that allows Charlie to ally with Archons, isn't it? Being that they're intelligent beings, I can only imagine that that sort of control would take the form of brainwashing. Still gross, though. :/

[Jasdoif]

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Pretty sure it's the Arkendish that allows Charlie to ally with Archons, isn't it? Being that they're intelligent beings, I can only imagine that that sort of control would take the form of brainwashing. Still gross, though. :/

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"Ally"? The archons are Charlescomm units, the capital produces them.

Odds seem good that the Arkendish gives him the ability to manipulate the natural thinkamancies of Obedience and Loyalty, though.

[Chromascope3D]

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"Ally"? The archons are Charlescomm units, the capital produces them.

Odds seem good that the Arkendish gives him the ability to manipulate the natural thinkamancies of Obedience and Loyalty, though.

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Ah, alright, thanks for the correction. I thought they might be some form of natural ally, but it's been a while since I archive binged. Still, I have a feeling that producing archons is tied to the Dish somehow, given that two of the other Tools allow for special unit creation/control as well, and no one else is known to be able to make archons.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Archons do pop in the wild on occasion, if I'm remembering one of the Klog updates right.

Anyway, it isn't probative that all Archons wear thongs. We know that this unit, with a specialty in seduction, does. We also know this unit is a devoted slave to Wanda, who we've all seen wears much worse when she chooses. Really, Wanda is at least sixteen flavors of screwed up.

[Lethologica]

Per the wiki, it is known that other sides produce archons, but not which other sides.

[Yanagi]

So after this update it occurs to me that maybe "Charlie" is a Manson Family reference as well as a Charlie's Angels reference.

[EnragedFilia]

So after this update it occurs to me that maybe "Charlie" is a Manson Family reference as well as a Charlie's Angels reference.

He's already made his name into a Street Fighter reference, too, so that doesn't seem at all unlikely.

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With regards to Lilith's raiment, I would like to point out that it's also possible that the detail in question may also be a result of her being a decrypted archon of Gobwin Knob, several of which have previously been demonstrated to be willing and apparently eager to 'form a flash mob', something which non-decrypted archons have yet to do, and something which that particular article might have at least some bearing upon. So fanservice or no, there are multiple possible ways it could be plot-relevant.

On other topics, I got the Bye Bye Birdie chant (having seen the movie years ago and the play just a couple weeks ago, coincidentally) and the Abu Gharib pose, but what was the first half of what they're singing a reference to? And are there any other references that I'm missing?

[guttering flame]

Are we sure this is Charlie and not Archons being Archons? This scene gave a bitchy sorority steriotype vybe which kind of fits the Archons.

[Legato Endless]

If it isn't Charlie ordered, it's certainly allowed.

Even if we assume Charlie might not know about something like this happening, which is incredibly unlikely, Archons have clear rules for when and where they are and aren't allowed to exceed their orders.

This is a standard grab bag of conditioning techniques. Horrifically evil yes, but not petty or spontaneous. This is just something else the Archons have been prepped for.