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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Pink's Avatar

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    Default Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Just a question that's been tossing around in my head from some opinions I've read here on the board. Essentially, should the cleric/healer be the only one to pay for the wands of healing and such, or should each party member split the cost, buy their own, other solution that alleviates the cost? What are your opinions on this issue?
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Well if they want healing...heh, but really, it depends on the cleric. My favorites are the ones that tell the group they're rolling up a warrior, not a healer, and shows up with a cleric. What? It works...
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Well... it will obviously vary, but I'd think it would be split. I mean, if there are people who are taking up whole wands by themselves (or just significantly more than others), it could be adjusted to represent that. Of course, if you find a way that you never have to use one, I could see the argument to be left out of paying for the wands.

    Of course, a neutral and/or evil (or, I suppose, some good) may buy their own and sell their healing. They can buy a full wand's use, but it'll be for at least cost.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Well, it's really up to the party to decide amongst themselves, but in my opinion something like wands of healing, that are obviously for the direct benefit of the entire party, should be paid for by the entire party. The cleric (in a good party at least) should heal for free with spells, but using up their equipment on somebody else should not be expected.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Players in my games usually share the costs of healing. I don't think it's strictly necessary, though; the wizard's wand of ray of enfeeblement is also helping the entire party, but they usually aren't recompensed for their expenses.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Depends on the group and how you bring it up. While an invoice in-game is amusing, many people take the cleric's healing for granted and would be annoyed at that. As a fighty type I wouldn't mind ponying up for a CLW as long as the cleric wasn't a jerk about it.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Well, Pink, for the PbP game we're both applying to, I went ahead and bought some wands. However, if we're both playing and I use both of them up, I would probably ask for a donation from the party towards further wands. I spent money to make you live, care to chip in so I don't go broke and you go dead?

    Other side of the coin. I don't buy the wands just to heal you all, I also buy them to save my spell slots for stuff other than healing you. Am I buying wands to help you or to help me?

    It really depends on how you think about it. I don't believe in "PAY ME JERKS, I AM T3H HEALZ, LIGHT OF UR LIVES!!1!1!" But I would politely ask for donations, as the items probably have a greater effect on you all than they do on me.
    Last edited by ocato; 2007-04-21 at 06:22 PM.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Thing is, if the group is working as a team, everyone's abilities are being used for the benefit of the party.

    In general, I think cure wand costs should be split. Everyone shares the cost of the wands that keep them alive. However, if this is the way you do things, then the wand isn't the cleric's property. It's group property, and anyone has the right to expect charges from it when they want it.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Hmm, some really nice comments here. I like that extra person party loot idea, and it works if the wizard does indeed have the idea that his wands, the most used and obviously most useful ones at least, should be covered.

    Myself, I don't quite think i ever thought of it being somebody's responsibility other than the healer's at first. keep in mind however that i play healer's often enough (Yeah Bard healer), and that i thought little of this, they weren't too expensive (especially a CLW for after battle touch ups) and I wasn't thinking too much about how to use my gold otherwise strictly for my character.

    I also like the outlook that it can be the cleric helping themself by not having to channel all of their prepared spells into cures.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Like Legoman said, I'd have the party put aside some portion of the loot for a "party fund," although I usually go for more like 50% of the gross loot. This is spent on all consumables, so if the wizard scribes 10 scrolls, the cleric buys a wand of CMW, the fighter buys 2 potions of Bull's Strength, and the rogue buys a bundle of smokesticks and tanglefoot bags, they'd all pull the funds for those puchases from the party fund. Of course, I usually spend a lot of money on utility consumables and trapmaking materials.

    Even if you don't have a party fund, just try and make sure everyone's putting in equal effort and gold towards stuff that helps ensure the survival of the party.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Here is how I see it

    Point 1) A clerics job is to keep the party alive, which requires healing, thats why they are taken along and given a cut of the loot

    Point 2) Everyone else is required to purchase their own items for their job (the fighter buys his weapon, the wizard buys his scrolls, ect)

    Point 3) Thus the other group members are not obligated to pitch in

    Point 4) However, if the other group members do not pitch in, it is entirely up to the cleric how the wand gets used.

    Thus, if I'm the cleric and I buy the wand myself, I will only save it for emergancies and primarly use it for myself (after all, if I die who will heal everyone else), but if someone else helps pay for it, I am obligated to heal them on request.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Hmm...I suppose when you start taking 50% of loot for group expenses, you have to start to consider whether it isn't better if everyone just paid for their own expendables.
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    CLW wands are ridiculously cheap. If you want healing outside of "omgzorz I'm at -2!!", drop the 750 gp and ask the nice cleric to heal you after the battle's over.

    'Course, this is only true for higher level parties. I fully expect at the low levels the cleric to be burning all his spells on cure.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Adventure expenses need to be negotiated beforehand. The most logical way is via a party fund. If you intend to lead an expedition to some place, then you need to set aside a slush fund. How you finance that party fund is another matter, but there's a fairly obvious difference between purchasing a Magical Sword and a number of Potions of Healing.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    It depends on the group's mentality. I like the "all for one and one for all" mentality, while others prefer a more motley band.

    It also depends on tactics. 50% for consumables is pretty ridiculous unless your party/campaign demands/encourages their liberal application, and supplies you with the gold to afford it.
    Last edited by Townopolis; 2007-04-21 at 07:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    I'd say it depended more on the cleric's mentality.
    Last edited by Tor the Fallen; 2007-04-21 at 07:18 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Generally, I'd expect the rest of the group to chip in. The Cleric's personal money goes to items the Cleric will use for his actions and personal benefit, just like everyone else. Since the Cleric has more important things to do with his spell slots and actions than be a band-aid (buff his teammates and/or zilla and wade into melee), his money goes to that.

    I'll second leaving all application of healing up to the Cleric if that's where the money for it came from.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Wait...The cleric has more important things to do than heal!!!???

    Just kidding just kidding, put the knives away.
    however, one thing that i think has failed to be factored in is that, clerics at least, are holy. In some instances it could easily be considered an expense to the service of thier god in the healing of those in need. Just a thought of course. Clerics are supposed to be the kind and generous ones usueally afterall.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Well, holy is as holy does. If the Cleric has a mandate to Heal and purchase Healing items without expectation of reciprocation, then sure. That doesn't really seem to be the general character of the D&D Cleric, though. Even were they to feel a compulsion to do so, I rather suspect that it would be conditional upon certain things.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    I wouldn't be terribly inclined to ask other players to chip in to recieve the benefits that define my archetype role, though I could see "Hey, can I get a few gp for this wand? I am a little short" working both in game and out of it. As stated before, healing is the cleric's main contribution (outside CoDZilla), just as sneaking is the rogue's, and thwacking things is the fighter's. I think the fighter might be justified to say "Well, if I take that money and put it towards another +1 enhancement for sword, it will kill enemies that much faster, and alleviate the need for extra healing." when presented with an invoice for healing.

    Honestly, I think that if you don't want to spend money on healing well in favor of other purposes, you probably should reconsider being a healing class. It does benefit the whole party, but in theory at least, so does everyone's purchases. What the real question is about healing is often "No one wants to focus on it, but we all know we need it; do we all shoulder that burden?" In effect, this is what spontaneous spell casting was created for: letting clerics do things other than heal. If you think healing is boring, and would rather stab things or blow them up (god, I know I would) play something more along those lines, such as a cleric of Stabiclese, God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things (Regardless of Facing.) Just be certain your friends are aware of that.
    Last edited by Wehrkind; 2007-04-21 at 09:58 PM.
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    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    The Cleric in my game blows all of his money on healing items and potions so that he doesn't have to heal, and he can do his tower shield-stabbity thing up close in melee. He doesn't charge anyone for it, but he's always, ALWAYS poorer than the rest of the PC's because he is too stubborn to heal.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    When I play cleric, about a fourth of my resources will likely go towards healing gear.

    When I'm not playing cleric, I'll probably buy a healing potion or two, which are mine and mine alone. That's usually how it goes in my groups; each character will have few healing potions to themselves, just in case the cleric is otherwise occupied. With that, my group's cleric rarely asks for help buying wands and such, since everyone can heal up a little by themselves. The cleric should expect to do most of the healing, but the rest of the party needs to be prepared for the cleric's absense.

    Since I'm the GM in my real life games, my players know to do this for other reasons too... I've been known to split them up.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    It's not unreasonable to ask that certain items be paid for out of the entire group's share, like wands of healing. But, if you're playing the stereotype "four strangers meet up in a bar" scenario, after you all split up at the end of the adventure, who gets the items? I've actually seen a group begin fighting over some wands with a few charges on it, because hey, stuff is stuff.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Generally, our group has a group fund. It goes something like this. "Ok, all together we have X,000 Gold, you bought a +1 Keen Longsword last time we were in a city, so unless you really need anything then keep quiet, I could do with some Mithril Chain, is that ok by everyone?" then we all together decide what healing stuff to buy. We are ALL in it for everyone, so everything is bought by the party. (of course the rogue doesn't always comply completely when owning up to treasure that he's found, and a kender sometimes forgets to put gold in the pot, but what do you expect?)

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  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by pink View Post
    Just a question that's been tossing around in my head from some opinions I've read here on the board. Essentially, should the cleric/healer be the only one to pay for the wands of healing and such, or should each party member split the cost, buy their own, other solution that alleviates the cost? What are your opinions on this issue?
    I think it really depends on whether the item is being treated as party resources or as the personal property of one character. The wand of cure light wounds is almost certainly going to be considered "party resources." If the party agrees it's time to burn charges from it, the cleric is expected to go ahead and use it, so it's only fair that the party should bear the cost. The wand of ray of enfeeblement is probably going to be used at the wizard's discretion rather than the party's request, and may well be used for personal purposes as well as party goals, so that's usually something the wizard ought to pay for. When party strategy calls for a specific spell to be cast off a scroll, the party should all chip in to buy the scroll--the classic example being buffing with protection from energy when going up against a dragon.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    What you really need is a party cleric, who gets kept in a portable hole until after battle, then pops out to heal everyone and collect party healing treasure (and presumably some food) and then goes back in. Everyone chips in for his upkeep, and the PC clerics are free to spend their cash on Buffing Up and Whacking Things (Regardless of Facing), as our Lord Stabiclese dictates.
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    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wehrkind View Post
    What you really need is a party cleric, who gets kept in a portable hole until after battle, then pops out to heal everyone and collect party healing treasure (and presumably some food) and then goes back in. Everyone chips in for his upkeep, and the PC clerics are free to spend their cash on Buffing Up and Whacking Things (Regardless of Facing), as our Lord Stabiclese dictates.
    Excellent idea! I'm going to make a fortune selling "clerics in a box" to my players!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Generally we have a lot of people in my group who can't remember to purchase healing items while we have the chance, usually a trip to the local apothecary is enough to open their eyes to the possibility, which is good since I can't use wands of healing and such, as I'm not a caster this time around and don't have the skill points for UMD to be worthwhile.

    Each person is responsible for equipping themselves, but it's not a good idea to refuse to share with a teammate in need, tends to come back on you. Best I've been able to do is strongarm the occasional person into paying me back or buying more for me. Chaotic evil means there are no free lunches.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Okay, here's the bill for my healing.

    Let the chime of every clinking coin be as a holy requiem to the glory of our Lord Stabiclese God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things (Regardless of Facing)! His blessings be upon us!

    ...That actually would be a great magical item, the creation of which would be a requirement/bonus of a "Priest of Stabiclese, God of Buffing Up and Whacking Thins (Regardless of Facing)" PRC.
    Healing Thrall (bot) In a Bag
    This item consists of a large sized bag of holding, and a small, feeble, and likely horrified, servant of one of those minor, healy sorts of gods stuffed inside it. Upon openting the bag, the healing thrall can be removed by the scruff of his neck, and will provide healing spells as a 5th level cleric of Pelor in return for bread and water. The spells used per day are those that a 5th level cleric of wisdom 16 would be able to prepare and cast per day.
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    Logic Ninja : Oh my god that was beautiful. Man. I... wow. This thread can be locked now, Wehrkind won it. Here
    "We know Elvis is dead for any relevant values of certain." - BWL
    I am now offering conversion to my Church of Stabiclese, Neutral God of Buffing Up and Whacking Things, Regardless of Facing. All those who love either "Buffing Up" or "Whacking Things" and don't particularly care about which direction the target is facing at the time are welcome!

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