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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

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    Default A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    The third part of Blood, Bone and Spirit, I present to you the Wandering Spirit. As this is my first time making a spellcaster, I predict that hilarity will ensue in some way or another...





    Pictures are not mine and will be removed on request

    Restless spirits A wandering spirit is a relatively unique creature, and even among other specters they are something different. Wandering spirits are the souls of those who have fallen in violent, often sudden and unjust ways who have unfinished business that they have yet to attend to. The thing is, unlike other lost and suffering souls, such as the ghost or banshee, a wandering spirit not only knows what this purpose is, but their desire and will are powerful enough that they can survive after their task is complete, building new paths and new destinies. Not only that, but their souls form a true body, a physical shell that brings them closer to life than death, and that allows them to touch, smell, hear, feel and even taste if they so desire. Called to danger and the woes of the living, a wandering spirit can often be found at the outskirts of cities and society, just waiting for their chance to enter and build a new life, or searching for some problem that they can solve.

    Repetition in undeath: Of course, the violence that comes with death and returning as one of the undead has changed some parts of their lives, chief among them being how the emotions of a wandering spirit work. Ranging from cold and heartless to burning and passionate, a wandering spirit is far more strongly aligned with such extremes than others beings. Very few act differently from how they did in life, but they act almost as a caricature of their past selves. A kind man who struggled with a gambling addiction would go through the motions of a game of chance whenever it came up, almost without thinking about it, and then donate what winnings they earned to some kind of charity or another, but would derive no joy from the acts. To them, these things and this personality are just the way they are "supposed" to be, and they wear their former lives like an actor in a play. It often takes years, but eventually a wandering spirit can realize that they are not bound or confined to how they acted in life, and they can build a new sense of self or re-learn why they enjoyed what they did in life. Until such a time as they learn how to do so, however, their actions seem and feel... hollow.

    Fractured souls A wandering spirit is a soul that has forced itself back into the world of the living, and while this mere act demonstrates their power, it also has left its marks on their body. When a spirit dies, it gives off fragments of power and essence, casting them into the world and the ethereal plane. The wandering spirit, caught in a perpetual state of transition between life and death, is constantly shedding these shards and drawing others to themselves. They feel a natural connection to these fragments of spirit and life, and can use them to draw upon the powers of the ethereal plane in multiple different displays of magical ability. As well, their own spirits and the reason for their return influence their ability to manipulate these shards, giving them the ability to use the spiritual fragments for purposes beyond what the ethereal plane itself can offer.

    Level Proficiency Class feature Soul shards Cantrips Known Spells known 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    1 +2 Risen feature, spellcasting, risen feature, undead traits 1 2 2 2 - - - - - - - -
    2 +2 Soul charged 2 2 3 3 - - - - - - -
    3 +2 Spectral guise 2 2 4 4 2 - - - - - - -
    4 +2 Ability score increase 3 3 5 4 3 - - - - - - -
    5 +3 Shard collector 3 3 6 4 3 2 - - - - - -
    6 +3 Risen feature 4 3 7 4 3 3 - - - - - -
    7 +3 -- 4 3 8 4 3 3 2 - - - - -
    8 +3 Ability score increase 5 3 9 4 3 3 3 - - - - -
    9 +4 -- 5 3 10 4 3 3 3 1 - - - -
    10 +4 Risen feature 6 4 11 4 3 3 3 2 - - - -
    11 +4 Risen vitality 6 4 12 4 3 3 3 2 1 - - -
    12 +4 Ability score increase 7 4 12 4 3 3 3 2 1 - - -
    13 +5 Weightless 7 4 13 4 3 3 3 2 1 1 - -
    14 +5 Risen feature 8 4 13 4 3 3 3 2 1 1 - -
    15 +5 -- 8 4 14 4 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 -
    16 +5 Ability score increase 9 5 14 4 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 -
    17 +6 -- 9 5 15 4 3 3 3 2 1 1 1 1
    18 +6 Hollow shell 10 5 15 4 3 3 3 3 1 1 1 1
    19 +6 Ability score increase 10 5 15 4 3 3 3 3 2 1 1 1
    20 +6 Ascendance 11 5 15 4 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1

    Class features
    Hit points
    Hit dice: 1d6 per level of Wandering Spirit.
    Hit points at 1st level: 6+your constitution modifier.
    Hit points at higher levels: 1d6+your constitution modifier or 4+your constitution modifier.

    Proficiencies:
    Armor: Light armor
    Weapons: Simple weapons
    Saving throws: Dexterity and charisma
    Skills: Choose any two of arcana, deception, history, intimidation, nature, perception, religion, stealth

    Quick build
    You can make a wandering spirit quickly by following these suggestions. First make charisma your highest ability score, followed closely by dexterity or constitution. Second, choose sage, acolyte or time lost as your background.

    Equipment
    • (a) A quarterstaff and sling with 20 bullets or (b) two daggers and a light crossbow with 20 bolts
    • (a) A component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
    • (a) A dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack or (c) a priest pack
    • Leather armor and a simple weapon


    Soul shards: When a body dies, or when a spirit walks the world, they leave small fragments of a soul's essence behind. Starting at level 1, you can attract and harness these shards to do your will. Whether you use the shards your own body generates or bend the drifting shards in the world to your will, these fragments are used to power your spells and abilities, and can be expended in an increasing number of ways. The number of soul shards you possess is shown on the level progression table. You recover all expended soul shards at the end of a long rest.

    Spellcasting: Starting at level 1 your control over the shards your own fragmented soul begins. See chapter 10 and 11 of the player's hand book for general rules of spellcasting.
    -Cantrips: You learn two cantrips of your choice from the wandering spirit spell list. You learn an additional cantrip of your choice at levels 4, 10 and 16.
    -Spell slots: The wandering spirit spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of first level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all spell slots at the end of a long rest.
    -Spells known: You know two 1st level spells of your choice from the wandering spirit list. You learn more spells at the levels shown on the wandering spirit Spellcasting table, each of which must be for a spell level of which you have a slot to cast. For instance, once you reach level 7 in this class, you may learn one new 1st through 4th level spell.
    Whenever you gain a level in this class, you may exchange one of your spells known for another spell of your choice. New spells gained in this manner must be chosen from the wandering spirit spell list.
    -Spellcasting: Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your wandering spirit spells.

    Risen feature: At level 1 you choose the reason for your return. You choose from one of the subclasses detailed at the end of this post, granting you certain abilities depending on your chosen subclass. At levels 6, 10 and 14 you gain additional subclass features.

    Undead traits: While not exactly undead, you do closely resemble them in structure, and you possess many similar traits. Starting at level 1, you are counted as undead for the purpose of spells and abilities, you have resistance to poison damage, and you are immune to the charmed condition.

    Soul powered: Starting at level 2 you are able to tap into your excess soul shards to power your spells. You may spend shards as a bonus action to recover previously spent spell slots, regaining a spell slot for a number of soul shards as listed in the table below. You are not able to exchange spell slots for soul shards, the trade only goes one way.

    Spell slot level recovered Soul shards cost
    1 1
    2 2
    3 3
    4 5
    5 6

    Spectral guise: Starting at level 3 you may momentarily make your body translucent by partially entering the ethereal plane. By spending 1 soul shard as an action, you may ignore all difficult terrain and enemies may not make opportunity attacks against you for moving out of their reach for one minute. Maintaining this effect requires your concentration.

    Ability score increase: At level 4 you may choose an ability score to permanently increase by 2, or you may increase 2 scores by 1. If you are using the feat variant, you may instead gain a feat. You gain additional ability score increases at levels 8, 12, 16 and 19.

    Shard collector: Starting at level 5, you are able to reap shards from the victims of your magic. When you kill a creature with one of your spells, you may use your reaction to regain a number of soul shards equal to your proficiency bonus. You must complete a short or long rest to regain use of this ability.

    Risen Vitality: Upon reaching level 11 you have adapted to the odd balance of positive and negative energy powering your form completely. You gain resistance to both necrotic or radiant damage. If you would take damage from one of these damage types, you may spend 2 soul shards as a reaction to gain immunity to that damage type until the beginning of your next turn and instead recover an amount of hit points equal to half the damage that source would normally deal.

    Weightless: At level 13 your mind finally comprehends that you are a spirit, and thus lighter than air. You gain a fly speed equal to your movement speed, become immune to the prone condition, and do not fall unless you choose to. In addition, do not take falling damage, and you do not set off pressure plates or scales that you step on.

    Hollow shell: Starting at level 18 you finally master the ability to shift and change your body. As an action, you may spend 4 soul shards to turn invisible and enter the ethereal plane for 10 minutes. While invisible, you may move through creatures and objects freely without disturbing them, and only true sight can detect you. You have true sight out to 60 feet while in this state, but are blind beyond it. If you cast a spell or make an attack against a creature, the invisibility ends and you reappear in the material plane. As an action, you may re-enter the ethereal plane and become invisible again. Maintaining this effect requires your concentration.

    Ascendance: Upon reaching level 20 you reach the height of your mastery, allowing you to escape from death again and again. You create a gem or piece of jewelry that acts much like a lich's phylactery, drawing in and storing your soul if ever you should die. Your body will be re-created from this gem after a week. If an ally has possession of this gem, they may use it in place of your body for purposes of resurrection magic, recreating your body much more quickly. You may not cast any spells with somatic, verbal or material components while trapped in this gem.
    If your phylactery is destroyed, you may create a new one by performing an intensive ritual. As part of this ritual, you must sacrifice a gem or piece of jewelry worth at least 5,000 gold and expend at least 11 soul shards every day you spend on performing the ritual. You must spend 30 days on the creation of this item, though these days do not have to be consecutive. You must spend 8 consecutive hours working on infusing and crafting your new phylactery for every day that counts towards this ritual. You may add your own material resources and other sacrifices to the ritual to hasten it; Often lives, treasure and other materials go into this process. Your DM will determine how much this can hasten the ritual.

    Risen subclasses

    Spoiler: The Dread Necromancer
    Show


    Reborn through fear and study, the dread necromancer is a dark being of magic. More than any other wandering spirit, a dread necromancer's creation is no accident. Many are products of a necromancer or lich's creation, tormented and terrified spirits bound to suffer within the world, while others are necromancers who "ascend" into this state by absorbing the fear of others, and there is yet another way... Though down that one lies a darkness so black that it would even chill the heart of a solar. Whatever methods go into their creation, the dread necromancer is a master of fear, and manipulates the energies of death in ways that necromancers can only dream of.

    Level Bonus spells known
    1 False Life, Ray of Sickness
    3 Darkness, Gentle Repose
    5 Animate Dead, Fear
    7 Blight, Death Ward
    9 Contagion, Insect plague

    Deathless endurance: Starting at level 1, your maximum hitpoints increase by 2. Every level of Wandering Spirit you take after the first increases your maximum hitpoints by a further 2.

    Touch of death: Your necromantic spells are able to chill foes, temporarily staggering them. Starting at level 1, when you damage a creature with a spell from the school of necromancy, or a creature fails a saving throw against a one of your necromancy spells, you may spend 1 soul shard to reduce their movement speed by 10ft and force disadvantage on their ability checks until the end of your next turn. If there are multiple targets of your spell that qualify for this ability, you must pay to impose this penalty on each of them separately.

    Corpse crafter: When you create an undead creature, it is far superior to that of a lesser necromancer's. Starting at level 6 undead that you create have the following benefits:
    • Undead you gain a +1 bonus on Attack rolls.
    • Undead you create add your proficiency bonus to their weapon damage rolls.
    • Undead that you create have their movement speed increased by 5ft.


    Necrotic aura: Starting at level 10 you begin to exude an aura of power that makes your undead more hearty. You may spend 3 soul shards as a bonus action to grant friendly undead creatures within 30ft of you gain 10 temporary hit points at the start of each round for one minute, and you can command your undead in this area as a free action.

    Primal terror: The fear you instill in the hearts of others strikes at their very souls. Starting at level 14 when you cast spells like the spell fear or weird that inflict the frightened condition, you double its initial area of effect. Additionally you may spend 4 soul shards after you cast the spell, allowing you to inflict the frightened condition on creatures usually immune to the condition and making the spell into a persistent aura that emanates 30ft from you as long as you concentrate on maintaining it.


    Spoiler: The Shepherd of Souls
    Show


    Leaders, geniuses, men and women of great worth who died long before their time. The shepherd of souls is a being who exudes confidence and control. Able to call the souls of others to their service, a shepherd of souls is a very social being and can inspire the hearts of the living and the dead alike.

    Level Bonus spells known
    1 Bless, unseen servant
    3 Spiritual Weapon, Warding Bond
    5 Conjure Animals, Phantom Steed
    7 Conjure Minor Elementals, Conjure Woodland Beings
    9 Conjure Elemental, Planar Binding

    Bonus Cantrip: Starting at level 1 you know the cantrip Thaumaturgy. This counts as a Wandering Spirit cantrip.

    Voice of the Shepherd: When you call, the souls of others cannot help but listen. Starting at level 1 you may enter a psuedo-divine state where your words carry extra weight. By spending 1 soul shard as an action, you gain advantage on charisma checks for one minute. Maintaining this effect requires concentration.

    Vitality boost: When you summon a creature, you can expend a few of your shards to increase their endurance. Starting at level 6, when you cast a conjuration spell that summons an actual creature, you may spend up to 6 soul shards. For each shard you spend, you grant the creatures you summon 5 bonus maximum hit points.

    Shard generator: Starting at level 10, the maximum amount of soul shards you may possess is increased by your charisma modifier.

    Shepherd's call: You are capable of summoning more minor creatures to your side. Starting at level 14, when you cast a summoning spell that summons creatures, you may spend 4 soul shards to double the number of creatures summoned. The maximum CR of summoned creatures that may be doubled in this way is 5.


    Spoiler: The Spirit of Vengeance
    Show


    Pain. Suffering. Wrath... Revenge. These are the things that these poor, tormented souls have returned to inflict. A spirit of vengeance suffered long before their unjust death, burnt and broken again and again until the thought of vengeance was all that remained for them... And that vengeance drove them beyond death's reach. Their seathing wrath comes out in powerful bouts of destruction, burning and blasting their foes beyond all recognition. They bend these powers in the defense of what few possessions and individuals they have remaining, jealously guarding them and bringing terrible ruin on those who would dare attempt to take these precious things away.

    Level Bonus spells known
    1 Hellish Rebuke, Thunderwave
    3 Scorching Ray*, Shatter
    5 Bestow Curse, Fireball
    7 Blight, Wall of Fire
    9 Animate Objects, Cloudkill
    *May be exchanged for Aranganzar's Scorcher if the Elemental Evil companion is being used.

    Bonus Cantrip: Starting at level 1 you know the cantrip Firebolt. This counts as a Wandering Spirit cantrip.

    Searing hate: Your wrath and power allows you to bend your soul shards to a far more... destructive conclusion. Starting at level 1, you may spend 1 soul shard whenever you cast a damage-dealing a spell to increase the damage dealt by your proficiency bonus. You must spend a number of soul shards equal to the level you cast the spell to activate this effect. On spells that have multiple targets such as fireball, the damage increase applies to only one of your targets. On a spell like scorching ray or magic missile, your proficiency bonus is added to only one of your attacks or projectiles. Lingering spells, such as wall of fire, have their damage increased for their entire duration.

    Potent cantrips: Starting at level 6 you increase the damage dealt by your cantrips by your charisma modifier.

    Vengeful spike: If an enemy damages you or one of your precious allies, you are more than happy to bring down blazing vengeance upon their heads. Starting at level 10 when an enemy damages you or an ally within 60ft of you, you may spend 3 soul shards as a reaction to mark the enemy with a Sigil of Vengeance. Until the end of your next turn you have advantage on attack rolls and indimidation checks against the target, and they have disadvantage on saving throws against your spells.

    All consuming wrath: Your rage extends to all of your spells, allowing all of them to be lethal weapons. Starting at level 14, when you cast a spell that does not require concentration, you may spend 3 soul shards to inflict 3d10 fire damage to all affected creatures in addition to the spell's other effects.
    Alternately, when you cast a concentration spell, you may spend 3 soul shards to add the infliction of 2d10 fire damage to any targets who comes under the spell's effects. As long as you maintain concentration on this spell, any targets under the spell's effects will be dealt 1d10 fire damage at the beginning of their turn.
    Last edited by Gnomes2169; 2019-04-22 at 12:39 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH in progress)

    Wandering spirit spell list
    Spoiler: Player's handbook spells
    Show
    Spoiler: Cantrips
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    Acid splash
    Blade ward
    Chill touch
    Dancing lights
    Mage hand
    Message
    Minor illusion
    Prestidigitation
    Ray of Frost

    Spoiler: Level 1
    Show
    Bane
    Detect magic
    Disguise self
    Dissonant whispers
    False life
    Feather fall
    Fog cloud
    Illusory script
    Inflict wounds
    Ray of sickness
    Shield
    Silent image
    Sleep
    Unseen servant
    Witch bolt

    Spoiler: Level 2
    Show
    Augury
    Crown of madness
    Darkness
    Detect thoughts
    Enthrall
    Hold person
    Knock
    Magic mouth
    Mirror image
    Misty step
    Pass without trace
    Phantasmal force
    Ray of Enfeeblement
    See invisibility
    Shatter
    Silence

    Spoiler: Level 3
    Show
    Animate dead
    Bestow curse
    Clairvoyance
    Dispel magic
    Fear
    Feign death
    Fly
    Major image
    Meld into Stone
    Nondetection
    Slow
    Speak with Dead
    Tongues
    Vampiric touch

    Spoiler: Level 4
    Show
    Blight
    Compulsion
    Confusion
    Death ward
    Dimension door
    Evard's Black Tentacles
    Freedom of Movement
    Ice Storm
    Phantasmal Killer

    Spoiler: Level 5
    Show
    Animate objects
    Cone of Cold
    Dominate person
    Dream
    Hallow
    Hold Monster
    Mislead
    Seeming
    Telekinesis
    Teleportation Circle

    Spoiler: Level 6
    Show
    Create Undead
    Circle of Death
    Eyebite
    Forbiddance
    Harm
    Mass suggestion
    Programmed Illusion
    True seeing

    Spoiler: Level 7
    Show
    Etherealness
    Finger of Death
    Plane Shift
    Reverse Gravity
    Symbol
    Teleport

    Spoiler: Level 8
    Show
    Dominate Monster
    Feeblemind
    Maze
    Mind Blank
    Power Word Stun

    Spoiler: Level 9
    Show
    Foresight
    Imprisonment
    Power Word Kill
    Weird



    Spoiler: Elemental Evil Companion
    Show

    Spoiler: Cantrips
    Show
    Control flames
    Gust
    Shape Water
    Thunderclap

    Spoiler: Level 1
    Show
    Catapult
    Earth tremor

    Spoiler: Level 2
    Show
    Earthbind
    Sniloc's Snowball swarm
    Warding Wind

    Spoiler: Level 4
    Show
    Elemental Bane

    Spoiler: Level 5
    Show
    Control Winds
    Maelstrom

    Spoiler: Level 6
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    Investiture of Ice
    Investiture of Wind

    Spoiler: Level 7
    Show
    Whirlwind

    Spoiler: Level 8
    Show
    Albi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting



    Spoiler: Xanathar's Guide to Everything
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    Spoiler: Cantrips
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    Soon

    Spoiler: Level 1
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    Spoiler: Level 2
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    Soon

    Spoiler: Level 3
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    Spoiler: Level 4
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    Spoiler: Level 5
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    Spoiler: Level 6
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    Spoiler: Level 7
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    Spoiler: Level 8
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    Spoiler: Level 9
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH in progress)

    I'm going to save my fuller response to the class for when the subclasses are up (On the whole I like it tremendously), but there are a couple minor things I'll comment on.

    I love Ascendance in theory, but a capstone with that much attached downtime might not fit the atmosphere of every game. Total quibble.

    I'm a little iffy about seeing Shard Collector that early in the progression. Shards seem to be intended as a limited secondary spellcasting pool, where the Lost Soul trades the resource for clearly defined spell-like abilities, but the early access to Shard Collector sort of subverts the seeming intention. A 4th level Lost Soul has functional access to eight first level spells or five second level spells a day, which lends the class a profound degree of burst and a profound degree of staying power. This degree of spellcasting flexibility, combined with only a single alternate option for Shard use, means that many low level Souls will simply convert all their shards directly to spell slots on most adventuring days.

    I have other reflections I can post if you'd like, but without the subclasses they're likely to be less than useful to you.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH in progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    I'm going to save my fuller response to the class for when the subclasses are up (On the whole I like it tremendously), but there are a couple minor things I'll comment on.

    I love Ascendance in theory, but a capstone with that much attached downtime might not fit the atmosphere of every game. Total quibble.

    I'm a little iffy about seeing Shard Collector that early in the progression. Shards seem to be intended as a limited secondary spellcasting pool, where the Lost Soul trades the resource for clearly defined spell-like abilities, but the early access to Shard Collector sort of subverts the seeming intention. A 4th level Lost Soul has functional access to eight first level spells or five second level spells a day, which lends the class a profound degree of burst and a profound degree of staying power. This degree of spellcasting flexibility, combined with only a single alternate option for Shard use, means that many low level Souls will simply convert all their shards directly to spell slots on most adventuring days.

    I have other reflections I can post if you'd like, but without the subclasses they're likely to be less than useful to you.
    First off, thanks for the early feedback! I should get the subclasses done later today. Now then, to the feedback itself.

    Ascendance does have a bunch of downtime, yes... But much like a lich's phylactery, you can sacrifice things during its creation, the difference being for the lich it's necessary, for the class it just speeds things up and you can use things other than souls. However, your DM might say that souls give the biggest boost to creation (say, 3-4 days per soul) so depending on how eeeeevil you can see your character being... >:)

    For soul collector, it probably should be moved to a later level... Though I don't have a level 3 trait then (and every class gets a feature at level 3). Perhaps I should move spectral guise to level 3? Each subclass will have a way to spend soul shards at level 1, so it hopefully won't cause too much of a problem to put it there, and move shard collector to, say, level 11 or 15. But yeah, I do agree that it's too much for the early game. I'm leaning towards level 11, since there is supposed to be a bit of sustain on this class.

    Whenever you feel like you are ready for your full feedback, feel free to post it!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH in progress)

    Honestly as written this class strikes me as fairly well balanced. There's some weirdness with the shard system simply because this is a full caster with a second source of spells, but that's hard to comment on since it seems like most of the alternate uses for shards will be coming out of the subclasses. I might like to see some of the later class features shuffled off into subclasses and replaced with passive features rather than new ways to spend Shards, but that again depends a lot on the subclasses and how they function.

    After thinking about it a little more Risen Vitality feels too powerful. Full immunity to necrotic or radiant is a bit much as a 6th level ability, especially when it's hard enough to come by mere resistance to those damage types. Leave the option to spend a shard point for healing, change the default to resistance, and I think it's about right.

    I definitely think you should pull the disadvantage on death saving throws feature from Undead Traits. Poison resistance and immunity to charm effects are relatively tame class features, and I don't think they really need a counterweight, especially not this one.

    Spoiler: Rant
    Show
    Disadvantage on death saving throws is a really popular feature on this board, and I absolutely hate it.

    I hate that it penalizes people who didn't select it. At first glance a greater risk of death seem only to affect the character who's more likely to die, but at the end of the day no player who is making death saving throws has any real control over their own survival anyway. Having a party member with disadvantage on death saving throws impinges on the combat choices of the party as a whole, because they're the only people with any ability to mitigate the greater risk of dying. You have to get to the wounded party member, because parties are usually constructed on the premise that you're going to try to keep everyone as alive as possible. With no control over whether or not they die the player who chose disadvantage on death saving throws has changed the basic calculation of combat for everyone else. It isn't actually about about taking a greater risk of death yourself, it's about demanding the other players come save you that much faster.

    I hate that it emphasizes the yo-yo inherent to the HP system. All that matters is that the person not be making the saves, and the easiest way to manage that is to jam a couple hit points into them every time they go down. That's true for everyone, but this highlights it.

    I hate that it's a snowball: a feature that's completely harmless until things start to cascade out of control. In the average round you aren't going to be making a death saving throw, but as soon as your HP starts dropping the changed math becomes absolutely crucial to everyone's survival. Features shouldn't be about making a bad situation worse, they should be about interesting ways to turn bad situations into good ones.

    I hate that it's so weird and swingy and different from existing features that its value is almost impossible to quantify. The closest comparison is sunlight sensitivity, one of the only sticks in an entire edition of carrots, and sunlight sensitivity doesn't have any of the above problems. I have no idea what disadvantage on death saving throws is worth because how dangerous it is varies wildly depending on the specifics of individual encounters. How bad it is depends a lot on how far the party has snowballed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    Ascendance does have a bunch of downtime, yes... But much like a lich's phylactery, you can sacrifice things during its creation, the difference being for the lich it's necessary, for the class it just speeds things up and you can use things other than souls. However, your DM might say that souls give the biggest boost to creation (say, 3-4 days per soul) so depending on how eeeeevil you can see your character being... >:)

    For soul collector, it probably should be moved to a later level... Though I don't have a level 3 trait then (and every class gets a feature at level 3). Perhaps I should move spectral guise to level 3? Each subclass will have a way to spend soul shards at level 1, so it hopefully won't cause too much of a problem to put it there, and move shard collector to, say, level 11 or 15. But yeah, I do agree that it's too much for the early game. I'm leaning towards level 11, since there is supposed to be a bit of sustain on this class.
    I do really love Ascendance. 20th level campaigns are so unusual that I'm frankly pretty blase about balance on capstone features (and this really doesn't feel at all out of line anyway), and I really like attaching it to a sort of built in mini-quest. It's an approach that encourages actual late game play in a way I enjoy, but I thought I'd point out it might not suit every campaign.

    As for Shard Collector, if you pop it up 11th level, move spectral guise to 3rd level and don't give the class shard points until 2nd level that would be nicely in line with the similar sorcerer point progression.
    Last edited by Flashy; 2015-05-27 at 05:03 PM.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH in progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Honestly as written this class strikes me as fairly well balanced. There's some weirdness with the shard system simply because this is a full caster with a second source of spells, but that's hard to comment on since it seems like most of the alternate uses for shards will be coming out of the subclasses. I might like to see some of the later class features shuffled off into subclasses and replaced with passive features rather than new ways to spend Shards, but that again depends a lot on the subclasses and how they function.
    Well, the subclasses are in, and each of them adds 3 new ways to spend soul shards. One at level 1, one at level 14 and the other at a variable level. Most of them are lower in cost, so having a few general options as well to increase the way you can spend soul shards is not the worst thing in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    After thinking about it a little more Risen Vitality feels too powerful. Full immunity to necrotic or radiant is a bit much as a 6th level ability, especially when it's hard enough to come by mere resistance to those damage types. Leave the option to spend a shard point for healing, change the default to resistance, and I think it's about right.

    I definitely think you should pull the disadvantage on death saving throws feature from Undead Traits. Poison resistance and immunity to charm effects are relatively tame class features, and I don't think they really need a counterweight, especially not this one.

    Spoiler: Rant
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    Disadvantage on death saving throws is a really popular feature on this board, and I absolutely hate it.

    I hate that it penalizes people who didn't select it. At first glance a greater risk of death seem only to affect the character who's more likely to die, but at the end of the day no player who is making death saving throws has any real control over their own survival anyway. Having a party member with disadvantage on death saving throws impinges on the combat choices of the party as a whole, because they're the only people with any ability to mitigate the greater risk of dying. You have to get to the wounded party member, because parties are usually constructed on the premise that you're going to try to keep everyone as alive as possible. With no control over whether or not they die the player who chose disadvantage on death saving throws has changed the basic calculation of combat for everyone else. It isn't actually about about taking a greater risk of death yourself, it's about demanding the other players come save you that much faster.

    I hate that it emphasizes the yo-yo inherent to the HP system. All that matters is that the person not be making the saves, and the easiest way to manage that is to jam a couple hit points into them every time they go down. That's true for everyone, but this highlights it.

    I hate that it's a snowball: a feature that's completely harmless until things start to cascade out of control. In the average round you aren't going to be making a death saving throw, but as soon as your HP starts dropping the changed math becomes absolutely crucial to everyone's survival. Features shouldn't be about making a bad situation worse, they should be about interesting ways to turn bad situations into good ones.

    I hate that it's so weird and swingy and different from existing features that its value is almost impossible to quantify. The closest comparison is sunlight sensitivity, one of the only sticks in an entire edition of carrots, and sunlight sensitivity doesn't have any of the above problems. I have no idea what disadvantage on death saving throws is worth because how dangerous it is varies wildly depending on the specifics of individual encounters. How bad it is depends a lot on how far the party has snowballed.
    Good points both. Risen Vitality has been slightly nerfed, while Undead traits have had the disadvantage on death saving throws removed.

    On the death saving throws, that was more because of how spells interact with the Undead creature type than because of the other benefits the ability grants. A whole slew of spells don't really function, while others only work on other undead. It just feels like a buff that needs some kind of negative side effect. Over-all, it's probable more balanced than it looks, especially given many effect that target [o]only[/i] undead or non-humanoids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    I do really love Ascendance. 20th level campaigns are so unusual that I'm frankly pretty blase about balance on capstone features (and this really doesn't feel at all out of line anyway), and I really like attaching it to a sort of built in mini-quest. It's an approach that encourages actual late game play in a way I enjoy, but I thought I'd point out it might not suit every campaign.

    As for Shard Collector, if you pop it up 11th level, move spectral guise to 3rd level and don't give the class shard points until 2nd level that would be nicely in line with the similar sorcerer point progression.
    Fair enough on ascendance. As you said, most campaigns don't get that high, but those that do typically stop either immediately, or months of OOC time have passed. I thought I might as well make some little goodies for the later group.

    I considered it, but each of the Risen features is an essential part of the class's core. They are supposed to have them from level 1, much like a sorc has their bloodline, the cleric has their domain and the warlock has their patron. So they have their level 1 soul shard to go with a level 1 subclass feature that they can spend it on... A small but hopefully useful ability that helps each subclass fill their role an sets the stage for each of them.

    Feedback as a whole would be much appreciated, if you wish to give it!

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    I'm surprised to see there is no mechanic for 'stealing' soul shards from opponents. While it might be hard to balance, it would seem far too in line with the thematics to not use. Maybe as a fourth subclass? The Soul Eater?
    If you want an idea on how it might be balanced there is a Warlock Patron here that follows a similar road... the key would be not allowing to become an unlimited source of spellcasting, while still providing enough of a boost to make it worth your while. Either limiting the soul shards gained this way (per short/long rest?) or making it difficult to use? Just my two cents.
    ....perhaps a low-damage attack that if it requires them to make a Cha? save or take necrotic damage, and you gain a soul shard...
    ...but that'd be overpowered at low levels. Anyway, just food for thought.

    Oh, before I forget, the class looks really good. Added to my list of things to try someday.
    Insanity is the sane response to an insane world.
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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    Wow, I totally spaced on doing a final commentary on this! Sorry! Really though, it's astonishingly well balanced. I can't think of anything on the list I find particularly over or underpowered, and the rebalanced shard system has worked all the kinks out of it. Moving shard collector and adding the subclass features leaves it working nicely as a sort of limited metamagic/limited spellpool system that fills the class out nicely.

    I'm sort of curious what the point of the hover ability in Weightless is. Isn't the whole point of flying not touching the ground or taking falling damage? As for the ability itself, access to at will flying at 13 is fairly early relative to other classes, but at least it isn't coming online before 10th level.

    Subclasses! If I don't comment on a feature assume I liked it.

    Spoiler: Dread Necromancer
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    The +1 to proficiency bonus in corpse crafter is an ability I'd like to see reworded. As I understand the monster creation rules proficiency bonus for a monster is determined separately from attack rolls or saving throws and is mostly used as a way to calculate CR. It's entirely possible I'm wrong about this but I think it would be more appropriate to have corpse crafter grant +1 to attack rolls and certain saving throws, simply because (again, as I understand it) a +1 to proficiency doesn't really do anything except maybe technically grant the NPCs more exp if they beat you.

    I go back and forth on Necrotic Aura. It's a thoroughly useful ability, and though it's probably not overpowered I think I'd be happier if it cost 3 soul shards instead of 2. It just feels a little too cheap when you have a pool of 10 soul shards, and next level you'll have a functional 16. The no action cost to command a creature is something I would keep an eye on in play-testing, since free control of that many monsters is something 5e has shied away from in general.

    Spoiler: Shepherd of Souls
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    I genuinely have no criticism for this one. It's a really on point subclass that seems to me balanced at every level. I had to give some thought to Vitality Boost, but at the end of the day up to 30 hit points isn't at all problematic at 6th level, especially considering the chunk of class resources they cost. The abilities are nicely limited while remaining interesting and useful, and the whole subclass is checked by the ongoing risk of losing control of an empowered summoned creature. It doesn't even interact badly with main progression features because everything requires concentration.

    Spoiler: Spirit of Vengeance
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    Searing Hate turns into a lot of damage for little investment at higher spell levels. It should probably be made to cost a number of soul shards equal to the level of the spell you're casting to keep it from getting too out of hand.

    Widespread wrath as a vastly improved version of twinned spell sort of clashes with the ethos of the subclass. Everything about the Spirit of Vengeance to this point has been about doing damage, and doing a lot of damage in big splashy ways. An improved version of twinned spell is mostly good for crowd control save or suck effects (with a few exceptions like Scorching Ray and Phantasmal Killer). It's a way to cast Hold Person on ten people at once, not a way to make your fireballs hit any harder. Off the top of my head I'd suggest changing it to an ability where you can add 2d10 fire damage to any successful spell you cast in exchange for two or three soul shards. Lets them branch out from simple damage spells, still keeps the damage and pain vibe.


    I am tremendously fond of the fluff of the finished class, quite like the features, and as a DM would absolutely allow a player to use it on a probationary basis.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstand View Post
    I'm surprised to see there is no mechanic for 'stealing' soul shards from opponents. While it might be hard to balance, it would seem far too in line with the thematics to not use. Maybe as a fourth subclass? The Soul Eater?
    If you want an idea on how it might be balanced there is a Warlock Patron here that follows a similar road... the key would be not allowing to become an unlimited source of spellcasting, while still providing enough of a boost to make it worth your while. Either limiting the soul shards gained this way (per short/long rest?) or making it difficult to use? Just my two cents.
    ....perhaps a low-damage attack that if it requires them to make a Cha? save or take necrotic damage, and you gain a soul shard...
    ...but that'd be overpowered at low levels. Anyway, just food for thought.

    Oh, before I forget, the class looks really good. Added to my list of things to try someday.
    Hmmm, a soul eater subclass might be fun. Likely something to add in later.

    As for the mechanic, perhaps making a specialized cantrip would work for it... Let's see here:

    Harvest
    Necromancy cantrip
    You reach out to grab a creature's soul, attempting to tear out a small fragment for your use. You may target one creature within 60ft who must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save the creature is dealt 1d8 necrotic damage. If this damage kills the creature and you currently possess 0 soul shards, sorcery points or other, similar resource systems, you regain 1 of them.
    At level 5 the damage of this cantrip increases to 2d8. At level 11 the damage of this cantrip increases to 3d8 damage and you recover 2 points instead. Finally at level 17 the damage of this cantrip increases to 4d8.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Wow, I totally spaced on doing a final commentary on this! Sorry! Really though, it's astonishingly well balanced. I can't think of anything on the list I find particularly over or underpowered, and the rebalanced shard system has worked all the kinks out of it. Moving shard collector and adding the subclass features leaves it working nicely as a sort of limited metamagic/limited spellpool system that fills the class out nicely.

    I'm sort of curious what the point of the hover ability in Weightless is. Isn't the whole point of flying not touching the ground or taking falling damage? As for the ability itself, access to at will flying at 13 is fairly early relative to other classes, but at least it isn't coming online before 10th level.
    Hover (the ability) grants immunity to the prone condition while flying. Being knocked prone while flying causes a creature to fall. In essence, it's "safe flight" that prevents you from being knocked from the sky by a guy with a bow or a bird who likes tripping flying people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Subclasses! If I don't comment on a feature assume I liked it.

    Spoiler: Dread Necromancer
    Show
    The +1 to proficiency bonus in corpse crafter is an ability I'd like to see reworded. As I understand the monster creation rules proficiency bonus for a monster is determined separately from attack rolls or saving throws and is mostly used as a way to calculate CR. It's entirely possible I'm wrong about this but I think it would be more appropriate to have corpse crafter grant +1 to attack rolls and certain saving throws, simply because (again, as I understand it) a +1 to proficiency doesn't really do anything except maybe technically grant the NPCs more exp if they beat you.

    I go back and forth on Necrotic Aura. It's a thoroughly useful ability, and though it's probably not overpowered I think I'd be happier if it cost 3 soul shards instead of 2. It just feels a little too cheap when you have a pool of 10 soul shards, and next level you'll have a functional 16. The no action cost to command a creature is something I would keep an eye on in play-testing, since free control of that many monsters is something 5e has shied away from in general.
    A creature's CR sets its base proficiency bonus... however, it does not directly adjust the creature's CR if influenced. Increasing proficiency increases proficient saves, accuracy and skills (if any) just like it would with a normal creature, so it does serve a purpose. Much like a necromancer increases an undead creature's HP if he creates it, which also influences the creature's base CR. So it works basically the same way.

    Necrotic aura likely should be 3 shards, though remember that you can only freely control undead in the aura while it's active, so you have to get up close in almost-melee to really benefit from it. Undead outside of that range still require your bonus action, and you don't get any benefit from it if you don't spend the soul points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Spoiler: Shepherd of Souls
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    I genuinely have no criticism for this one. It's a really on point subclass that seems to me balanced at every level. I had to give some thought to Vitality Boost, but at the end of the day up to 30 hit points isn't at all problematic at 6th level, especially considering the chunk of class resources they cost. The abilities are nicely limited while remaining interesting and useful, and the whole subclass is checked by the ongoing risk of losing control of an empowered summoned creature. It doesn't even interact badly with main progression features because everything requires concentration.
    Thank you much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Spoiler: Spirit of Vengeance
    Show
    Searing Hate turns into a lot of damage for little investment at higher spell levels. It should probably be made to cost a number of soul shards equal to the level of the spell you're casting to keep it from getting too out of hand.

    Widespread wrath as a vastly improved version of twinned spell sort of clashes with the ethos of the subclass. Everything about the Spirit of Vengeance to this point has been about doing damage, and doing a lot of damage in big splashy ways. An improved version of twinned spell is mostly good for crowd control save or suck effects (with a few exceptions like Scorching Ray and Phantasmal Killer). It's a way to cast Hold Person on ten people at once, not a way to make your fireballs hit any harder. Off the top of my head I'd suggest changing it to an ability where you can add 2d10 fire damage to any successful spell you cast in exchange for two or three soul shards. Lets them branch out from simple damage spells, still keeps the damage and pain vibe.
    Hmmm... perhaps limiting Searing Hate to level 5 and lower spells would accomplish close to the same goal. Or maybe making it cost 1/2 of the spell's level rounded up would work. I really don't want to make it cost 1/2 of the character's resources for a single spell (any 9th level spell), but 5 soul shards is still pretty high compared to most of the other subclass abilities. The only other one that comes close is the Shepherd's HP booster, and that's up to 6 points.

    Widespread wrath is honestly the ability that I've been most leery about. I'm thinking of changing it out for something, and I honestly do like the suggestion of allowing the spirit to add a damage effect to any spell. Allowing it to inflict a DOT on top of ongoing effects might be a good idea if its cost is set to 3 soul shards, allowing a concentration spell to deal 1d10 fire damage to the creature as long as the spell is in effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    I am tremendously fond of the fluff of the finished class, quite like the features, and as a DM would absolutely allow a player to use it on a probationary basis.
    The full fluff should be coming soon, and thank you much for the recommendations! Hope your players enjoy it.

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    And finally, the fluff text is complete and I can officially announce the class complete. However, I did promise some subclasses as well, didn't I? Well... I suppose I still have some work ahead of me.

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    Risen Vitality: Upon reaching level 5 you have adapted to the negative or positive energy powering your form completely. You gain resistance to either necrotic or radiant damage (your choice). You may not change this choice later. If you would normally be damaged by one of these energy types, you may instead spend your reaction and 1 soul shard to regain hit points equal to the damage you avoided.
    To determine how much damage you heal, is 'damage avoided' calculated before or after resistances are applied?

    Overall I like the class and would love to try it out someday. Starting off dead to a campaign is pretty cool. But I also like the idea of a PC who dies and decides they aren't done when the group can't bring them back, they can just take levels in this class until they are fixed, or they just decide they like their new lifestyle.

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    Default Re: A lost soul (Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gr7mm Bobb View Post
    To determine how much damage you heal, is 'damage avoided' calculated before or after resistances are applied?

    Overall I like the class and would love to try it out someday. Starting off dead to a campaign is pretty cool. But I also like the idea of a PC who dies and decides they aren't done when the group can't bring them back, they can just take levels in this class until they are fixed, or they just decide they like their new lifestyle.
    Since only one source of resistance may apply to the character at a time, avoided damage is the damage your resistance from the trait grants. Though I should probably replace "avoided" with "resisted" to make that mare clear, and to make sure people don't get confused about whether making their dexterity saving throw will heal them.

    That second scenario is actually what I was shooting for; A way to play the same character when your old one dies without having to completely roll a new one up. You could go a few ways with this:
    1) The party leveled up from the encounter that killed the character, so they come back with just 1 level of the class. This one is more for a player who just wants a dip or who wants to come back after a while.
    2) The character comes back with all of their class levels converted, but the same stat line. Showing that they Are still the same person, but with a new lot in life. The player wants to try out something new, but might be willing to come back if the story progresses that way.
    3) The character comes back with only their personality and background the same, everything else is changed or converted to the "lost soul" type of person. Such a character probably belongs to a player who isn't looking to change back, and who the story will likely cause to change and hopefully grow to accepting their new position in "life."

    I'm sure there are other ways to pull this off, but these are some suggestions on what I would say to a DM going into this (I'd probably go for 1 or 3, personally. Either I just want new options, or I want a new character without having to go through and invent someone from the ground up and come up with some contrived reason for the party to accept them).

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