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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    I had this idea for a house rule after reading some of the previews for the new Star Wars: Saga RPG and the mechanics they have for speeding up combat.

    Anyways here it is, weapons would no longer have damage dice. All damage would be based on how much your attack roll exceeded the targets AC. Instead each weapon having set amount of damage dice to be rolled, they would give a bonus to your attack roll. I would probably make the attack bonus equal to the weapons previous average damage, rounded up. So for a longsword, the attack bonus would be +5 (1d8: average damage = 4.5).

    Some benefits with this system is that it would most likely speed up combat, and be a more realistic combat system. This way the amount of damage you do is based on how good your attack is (no longer will you beat the enemies AC by 20, and only do 3 damage). It would also allow the DM to keep the amount of damage done a secret as the player wouldn't know the targets AC.

    Anyways, I wanted to know if anyone could come up with a reason why this wouldn't be balanced, or any other problems they have with this system.

    Thanks a ton.

    p.s. I will be adding ideas for this system as I come up with them.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keledrath's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    Main problem is at the higher levels when the fighter has a minimuim total attack roll of about 15 and has a high magic weapon, he starts dealing way more than usual. It also steals most of Power Attack's thunder.
    I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    It's fine. I rememeber there was a lengthy article concerning this published in Knights of the Dinner Table a couple of years back. It wasn't the first such article either. Main problem - No use for your other dice.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Bookboy View Post
    It also steals most of Power Attack's thunder.
    Actually, it pretty makes Power Attack a useless feat. All it would do is subtract from you to-hit chance. Only useful for a two-handed weapon then.
    They say the pen is mightier than the sword, so I took Weapon Specialization.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Magnor Criol's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    What if the attack roll was some sort of modifier for the damage? Beat the AC by a lot, you get the whole damage, beat it by just a little, you only get a little bit of the damage?

    I don't know what sort of scaling would be best for that scenario, but it seems logical to me.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    I would probably change Power Attack as well. Make it 1:2 ratio for attack-penalty:bonus-damage for one handed weapons, and 1:3 for two handed.

    Well, massive damage isn't too hard to come by with the right amount of planning, and there is a 9th lvl ToB maneuver that just adds a flat +100 bonus to damage as well.
    Last edited by illathid; 2007-04-23 at 01:08 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    i'd think that some weapons would be able to hit easier (daggers/rapiers) but deal less damage, while others would be harder to hit ie. easier to evade but deal much more damage (greataxe)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Orzel's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    In my d20 homebrew that how damage is dealt. kinda. During power attack the amount you exceed the AC by is also doubled (or tripled). Causes warriors to Power attack for 1 a lot.

    But the weapon's bonus should be to damage rolls not attack rolls or everyone would use greatswords, morningstars, longbows, and long swords.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Orzel View Post
    But the weapon's bonus should be to damage rolls not attack rolls or everyone would use greatswords, morningstars, longbows, and long swords.
    They don't already?

    This is also more of a solution for higher level play, where the difference between +2 and +4 isn't going to matter that much.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Peregrine's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    This also looks like a great solution to a problem I've been having with a homebrew system based on the injury system, namely, that it requires too many bloody rolls! You have to roll attack, then damage then a fort save for every attack that connects. And when combined with making defence rolls... well, this is why I've settled on rolling defence once per round, and I still feel it's too many rolls per attack.

    I was looking at giving each weapon a flat damage value, which I hated but which would have helped a lot. Attack and damage being one roll is good for me though. If you don't mind me nicking the idea, that is. (I know people have said others have had the same idea, but fair's fair, it was your thread that gave me the idea.)
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
    This also looks like a great solution to a problem I've been having with a homebrew system based on the injury system, namely, that it requires too many bloody rolls! You have to roll attack, then damage then a fort save for every attack that connects. And when combined with making defence rolls... well, this is why I've settled on rolling defence once per round, and I still feel it's too many rolls per attack.

    I was looking at giving each weapon a flat damage value, which I hated but which would have helped a lot. Attack and damage being one roll is good for me though. If you don't mind me nicking the idea, that is. (I know people have said others have had the same idea, but fair's fair, it was your thread that gave me the idea.)
    Go right ahead. Tell me how it works out too, as I won't have time to play test it for a while (stupid college papers).

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    So how do you calculate a critical hit? Is it going to be double (triple, whatever) the weapon's damage, or also double the exceeds-AC damage?

    I recommend doubling only the weapon's damage modifier, and strength and such, considering critical hits already have high AC-beating capabilities.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    What about:

    AC +5 = +1 to Confirm Criticals
    AC +10 = +2 to Confirm Criticals
    AC +15 = +4 to Confirm Crit, +1 Crit. Multiplier.
    AC +20 = Automatic Critical Threat, +8 to Confirm Criticals, +2 Crit Multiplier.

    Power-Attack is still viable, but so is non-power attack with massive +tohit.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    Also, True Strike would be kinda crazy with this system.

    Not only would it make your next attack pretty much a guaranteed hit, it'd also add 20+ damage.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Attack Mechanic] Success Based Damage

    I forgot to ask. Do Strength Bonuses and Magical Bonuses to Damage continue to work, since they are also part of the Attack Roll? [i.e. +1 Long Sword is actually +2 Damage in effect if it is +1/+1.] If they don't, Masterwork Items become as good as Magical +1, ones, though Something to watch out for.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    – Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

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