Swordsage Class for 5e [PEACH!]

[demonickin0]

Alrighty, so I finally got it to the level where I think something can be made of it. I'm calling on all of homebrewers out there.

Swordsage

Featured Schools:

Desert Wind

Diamond Mind

Iron Heart

Stone Dragon

White Raven

The reasoning I don't featured the Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw, or Devoted Spirit, because those are already captured my other classes and there is no sense in it.

[Fyndhal]

This is a very good write up. I'm impressed.

The only questionable items I see are:

* Full Defense -- This is strictly speaking weaker than just using the Dodge Maneuver. Consider changing to "Add 1/2 your Intelligence Modifier to your AC while taking the Dodge Action."
* Iron Heart -- 14d6 on Finishing Move with a 50% threshold seems extremely powerful. Consider reducing it to 10d6 or reducing the threshold to 33%?
* Stone Dragon -- Has three functions that each require a Bonus Action. This dramatically reduces the ability to create synergies.

[PotatoGolem]

Haven't looked at the subclasses yet, but the base class looks good. Full defense is weaker than dodge though- I like Fyndhal's suggestion of adding half int to AC when you dodge. Also, it should be int, not wis- the class is already int-based, so it shouldn't have one outlier ability that uses wis.

[PotatoGolem]

Desert Wind:

As written, distracting embers does nothing. Flanking doesn't exist anymore. I think what you want is for it to take the Help action.

Inferno Blade is quite strong, so it seems like it should cost at least 2 ki.

Inferno Blast is way too much. 14d6 AOE, useable up to 3 times per short rest? It shouldn't be a 9th level slot.

Overall, cool ideas and very tight thematically.

[Soommor]

Fyndhal, are you a Flumph in real life?

[PotatoGolem]

Diamond Mind: Mind over Body is redundant with Diamond Soul. Disrupting body is worded weirdly. It's also too strong for 1 ki- it's essentially the Monk's martial arts plus open fist, except it works with weapons. Even as just an attack, this seems strong. With the stun, should be 3-4 ki.

Iron Heart: Why is Iron Heart Focus just a worse Diamond Soul? Maybe this is where Mind Over Body could be put.

Stone Dragon: As has been said, you have some bonus action redundancy here. Also, Bonesplitting Strike isn't very good- exhaustion isn't an issue for NPCs, so it won't really do anything. Also, this path shows how unfair the Desert Wind capstone is. SD has a 6th level spell for 6 ki (seems fair), DW gets a 9th level spell for 5.

White Raven: Leading the Attack is too strong for 1 ki. It's an extra attack with a good rider. Should be at least 2 ki, maybe 3.

White Raven Tactics needs a ton of proofreading. I think the ability is too weak, but the errors make it tough to read.

Flanking doesn't exist in 5e, so you'll need to explain what Flanking Maneuver does.

War Master's charge is confusingly worded as well. I believe that what it does is let your allies dash as a bonus action as long as they move adjacent to the enemy with their extra movement? And it gives you +2d6 on your damage for the first attack against the enemy, while your allies each get +1d6 on their first successful attack?

Overall, this class looks quite cool and well thought-out. It has some balance issues and some holdovers from 3.5 that don't quite work in 5e, but it's a great start.

[demonickin0]

Hahaha, sorry for the delay guys! I have this up on a few sites trying to get the most feedback so I can balance it. I have incorporated everything above in the most recent update as well as some other things I was informed would be great help. I really appreciate the input guys, it means a lot. I know it needed a lot of work, but hopefully we are getting close to something worth a play test.

If you guys want to review it again and see if anything needs sprucing up. Let me know :D I would greatly appreciate it!

[Fyndhal]

Fyndhal, are you a Flumph in real life?

As far as you know, yes!

[Steampunkette]

Round, silly, useless if flipped onto his back...

That describes Fyndhal pretty well.

[Fyndhal]

Round, silly, useless if flipped onto his back...

That describes Fyndhal pretty well.

This is why you don't tell friends who you are on forums. /sigh

On topic, demonickin0, I'm yoinking your design and will be playing it in a Dark Sun game come Monday. I'm doing a Mul Stone Dragon build. First thing I noticed was that this build is incredibly MAD. You need high stats in Strength, Dexterity and Wisdom and should have a bonus in Intelligence and Constitution. Strength for damage; you could dump strength and go Finesse, but that doesn't match the feel of Stone Dragon very well. Dexterity is needed due to low AC from Light Armor only. Wisdom for save DC's. Intelligence and Constitution both add to specific things for the character and should not be skimped on.

That's about as MAD as 5e gets!

To alleviate it, somewhat, I gave Stone Dragon, Iron Heart and White Raven proficiency with Medium Armor. Desert Wind and Diamond Mind should gain something equivalent, but I haven't thought of what yet.

[PotatoGolem]

You're right, I hadn't noticed that DCs are Wis-based. Should probably make that Int to reduce MAD. Also, IIRC, Swordsages were more about Int than Wis anyway.

Another thing I missed- the 17th level feature is REALLY weak. Detect Magic as an action by spending ki is probably not ever going to be worth it. I've never had a character (either my own or a player I DM'ed for) not cast Detect Magic as a ritual. It's not worth the spell slot, and I really doubt it'll be worth the ki.

[demonickin0]

I gave the class Medium Armor Proficiency because half-plate is just so awesome for everything. The reason it isn't completely INT focused and is Wisdom instead is because I found it was more interesting to have a Wisdom based character that, through experience, they understand the styles more. You could theoretically Change it all to Int based and wouldn't make it too bad for balance wise, but my vision sees that Wisdom is the better fit. ALSO! The only INT requirement is Insightful Strikes which come late game.

[Fyndhal]

The only INT requirement is Insightful Strikes which come late game.

Situational Awareness adds Int to Perception checks, as well.

[demonickin0]

Fair point! So should I change it all to INT based stuff? I think that would work well to reduce the MAD

[Fyndhal]

Fair point! So should I change it all to INT based stuff? I think that would work well to reduce the MAD

All Int or all Wis would work to reduce MAD issues. I could see arguments for either, so I don't have much preference.

[Steampunkette]

I think Intelligence would be more interesting, while Wisdom would paint them more as weapon-wielding monks.

[PotatoGolem]

I'm going to vote for Int as well from a mechanical standpoint, because it's an under-utilized stat. Only Wizards, ATs, and EKs need it, and the latter two don't need a ton of it.

[demonickin0]

All done guys!!! Thank you all for your help!!!!!!!!

[Fyndhal]

All done guys!!! Thank you all for your help!!!!!!!!

One last thing...

Saves are now STR, INT both of which are weak. Consider STR, WIS or DEX, INT instead?

[demonickin0]

One last thing...

Saves are now STR, INT both of which are weak. Consider STR, WIS or DEX, INT instead?

3 saves? Isn't that unheard of?

[Fyndhal]

3 saves? Isn't that unheard of?

Sorry, bad formatting:

STR & WIS or
DEX & INT

[SanusCompleo]

You know, I really never actually liked Tome of Battle content? And I really haven't ever been particularly fond of homebrew.

That said, this is perfect. If it were material, I would hug it. I have already hugged my monitor.

Never stop. You did just perfect.