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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Ziegander's Avatar

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    Default Two New Fighting Styles

    Versatile Combatant (Fighter/Paladin/Ranger)
    While wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and not carrying a shield or weapon in your other hand you may take the Use an Object or Grapple action as a bonus action on your turn. While wielding a Versatile weapon in two hands you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with that weapon.

    Tactician (Fighter/Paladin)
    You may take the Help action as a bonus action on your turn or as a reaction, and you gain a +2 bonus to all weapon attack rolls you make as part of a Reaction. You may only choose this fighting style if your Intelligence score is 11 or higher.

    Do these seem balanced against the current fighting styles?
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2015-06-05 at 10:33 AM.
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    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Versatile Combatant
    The +1 to attack makes two-handing a versatile weapon worth while. (-2 average damage for +1 attack) Use an Object as a bonus action is really only useful with items that you hold. However, this violates the "wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and carrying nothing in your other hand " rule. I might change it to wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and not carrying a shield or weapon in your other hand. As for comparing it to other styles, Archery gets +2 to attack which is comparable to +1 and some utility. All around, I like this style and agree that versatile weapons need some love.
    Tactician
    +2 initiative is pretty good considering there are no requirements (every style has a requirement so far: holding shield, wearing armor, wielding a ranged weapon, etc.). The Help as a bonus action/reaction allows for a good amount of damage output and some great synergy with Rouge. Overall, this one is pretty good but not too overpowering and the flavor is great.

    One thing to consider is replacing a fighting style with these, because too many styles (Fighter gets 9 with this list and mariner) can lead to too many choices.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Ziegander's Avatar

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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Torched Forever View Post
    Versatile Combatant
    Use an Object as a bonus action is really only useful with items that you hold. However, this violates the "wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and carrying nothing in your other hand " rule. I might change it to wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and not carrying a shield or weapon in your other hand.
    Good and obvious point. Thanks for your input.

    Tactician
    +2 initiative is pretty good considering there are no requirements (every style has a requirement so far: holding shield, wearing armor, wielding a ranged weapon, etc.). The Help as a bonus action/reaction allows for a good amount of damage output and some great synergy with Rouge. Overall, this one is pretty good but not too overpowering and the flavor is great.
    Ah, I see you're right. Maybe there should be some requirement here then, huh? Any suggestions as to what it could be?

    One thing to consider is replacing a fighting style with these, because too many styles (Fighter gets 9 with this list and mariner) can lead to too many choices.
    Personally, I disagree. There can almost never be "too many" choices in character building. If you ask me, it only becomes a game problem if a player has too many choices in play.
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    I really like tactician and will be adding it to my house rules, though I might have it as fighter-only. To me, it says "Int or wis prerequisite", but I don't know if that works for styles.
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    I really like tactician and will be adding it to my house rules, though I might have it as fighter-only. To me, it says "Int or wis prerequisite", but I don't know if that works for styles.
    I was just thinking the same thing about Int prerequisite. Requirement of Int 13 or 11 perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    I might have it as fighter-only.
    I also considered it, it just seemed like such a Paladin thing to potentially do.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2015-06-05 at 10:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    They seem reasonable. Versatile Combatant allows grapple but that's very toned down in 5e so it's only occasionally useful - appropiate for being an add on to a style.

    I really like tactician as things like Help encourages players to really play together and operate as a team instead of just 4 people taking turns showing off.

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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Would Tactician still seem balanced if I removed the +2 to Initiative checks and replaced it with "+2 to weapon attack rolls made after using the Ready action?" Or even to all weapon attack rolls made as part of a Reaction (which should cover Readied attacks as well as opportunity attacks, and the Mage Slayer and Sentinel feats)?
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    I think +2 to reaction would work. That would make things like polearm master even better but you get only one reaction and could have many more attacks. +2 to reaction attack is probably worth less than +1 to all attacks.
    Last edited by Stan; 2015-06-05 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I think +2 to reaction would work. That would make things like polearm master even better but you get only one reaction and could have many more attacks.
    But do you think +2 to reaction attacks AND Help as a bonus action or reaction is balanced compared to the other styles? It seems probably too good to me even with an Intelligence requirement.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    I'm not sure but I think so. Help as an opportunity cost as it's using up your bonus action, it's like you're giving up one attack to make another player's attack better.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I'm not sure but I think so. Help as an opportunity cost as it's using up your bonus action, it's like you're giving up one attack to make another player's attack better.
    I think I'm starting to agree. I'm gonna change it to the "extra tactical" reaction bonus then as long as no one violently opposes me.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    If you go for the reaction bonus, I'd definitely prefer the requirement to be wis over int. Wis affects your ability to spot tactical openings and governs instinctive skills in general.

    Plus the battle master's save dc keys off wis, doesn't it (I'm AFB)?
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  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    If you go for the reaction bonus, I'd definitely prefer the requirement to be wis over int. Wis affects your ability to spot tactical openings and governs instinctive skills in general.
    I just don't think Wisdom when I think Tactician, personally, and Intelligence would make more sense when you consider the rest of the package (readied action attacks and Help bonus/reaction).

    Plus the battle master's save dc keys off wis, doesn't it (I'm AFB)?
    Nope, those saves are Str/Dex, whichever you choose.
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    Default Re: Two New Fighting Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Versatile Combatant (Fighter/Paladin/Ranger)
    While wielding a Versatile weapon in one hand and not carrying a shield or weapon in your other hand you may take the Use an Object or Grapple action as a bonus action on your turn. While wielding a Versatile weapon in two hands you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with that weapon.

    Tactician (Fighter/Paladin)
    You may take the Help action as a bonus action on your turn or as a reaction, and you gain a +2 bonus to all weapon attack rolls you make as part of a Reaction. You may only choose this fighting style if your Intelligence score is 11 or higher.

    Do these seem balanced against the current fighting styles?
    I think Int is a good choice for Tactician. It represents tactical thinking, and is based of of that. it would work well with Sentinel, showing the inelegance to know where to strike a foe when they are vulnerable.

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