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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Alrighty folks, this here is a rehash/clean up/remix of the Binder Patron that Belac93 posted over here. This was done with their permission.

    On with the show!


    Binder

    Spoiler: The Binder
    Show


    Binders are students of an ancient and secret lore that allows them to call to entities known as vestiges that live beyond the known planes, in the spaces between the worlds. Through a combination of forgotten magics and complex bargains, they persuade or compel these beings to serve them - though not always without price.

    Beyond Reality
    A binder learns to cast their mind into the void between the planes, and to search the fractal wilderness there for beings that will answer their call. These vestiges, as theybare known, are beings that the world has either forgotten, erased from memory, or never knew existed in the first place. They are reborn from the chaos outside of reality, from the last echoes of the world's creation, and from energies that leak out of the planes. Their personalities, abilities and motivations vary wildly depending on their origin, ranging from reasonable and relatable to deeply inscrutable.

    A Bargain Sealed
    In order to obtain the services of a vestige, a binder must fist contact, and then strike a deal with, his chosen vestige. Through a contest of wills, deceit, barganing, and even outright threatening, the binder and vestige make their contract. The benefits of binding are mutual: the binder gains access to the powers he desires, and the vestige is granted a brief amount of time in the real world, something unattainable for even the most powerful of their kind.

    Expanded Spell List
    A Binder does not gain an extended spell list.

    Vestige Binding
    Starting at level 1, you can bind entities called vestiges. Each vestige has a seal that you must learn before you can bind it, and you collect these in a seal book, functionally similar to a spellbook. You learn a new vestige automatically at level 1, 5, and 10, but you may copy seals from a found seal book. Researching vestiges in general is very difficult (Int: Arcana check 20), and finding specific info and/or the seal through research is very nearly impossible (Int: Arcana check 25, with disadvantage on the roll). You can copy a vestige seal into you book with 1 hour of work and by spending 50 gold for materials.

    To bind a vestige, you require the following:
    - A drawing of the vestige's seal
    - Any special components the vestige requires
    - 10 minutes of time to forge the bond
    - An unused Spell Slot

    When you attempt to bind a vestige, you expend the spell slot, using it's energy to pull the vestige into this plane; you must then make a binding check. This check is a Charisma(Intimidation/persuasion/deception) check equal to 10+the power level of the pact you are attempting to forge. If you do not succeed, you have made a bad pact: the vestige has gotten the better of you for that bargain, you are under it's influence, and you will display it's sign. If you succeed, you have made a good pact: the vestige does not influence you, and you may choose to display it's sign or not. While you are under the influence of a vestige, you may attempt to act counter to your vestige's wishes; this is unwise and potentially dangerous. A first offense results in disadvantage on all skill checks and attack rolls until you take a short rest; further infractions will result in the vestige forcibly breaking the bond, and you gain one level of exhaustion. A pact lasts for 24 hours or until you either take a long rest or your willingly unbound from the vestige.
    Weather you make a good pact or a bad pact, you immediately gain all of the vestige's associated powers up to the pact level you bound it at. The maximum power level to which you may bind a vestige is equal to 1/2 your level, though you may choose to bind a vestige at a lower level.

    Spoiler: Example
    Show
    Dragen is a Level 10 Binder Warlock. before he heads out on his adventuring day, he attempts to forge a contract with Ipos, Prince of Fools at his maximum pact level, 5. He makes a Charisma: Persuasion check, rolling a 17. This beats the Binding DC of 15. Dragon has made a good pact, and now has access to all of the powers granted by Ipos from Pact levels 1 - 5.

    Beloch is a Level 15 Binder Warlock. Before he heads into town, he attempts to forge a contract with Naberius, the grinning Hound at it's maximum pact level, 6. He makes a Charisma: Deception check, rolling a 13. This does not beat the Binding DC of 15; Beloch has made a bad pact. He now has access to all of the powers granted by Naberius from Pact levels 1 - 6, but he is now under Naberius's influnce, and will show his sign; This may cause him a few problems while he's dealing with people in town.


    At 1st level, you may only bind with one vestige at a time; at 7th level, two; and at 15th level, three. You may attempt to bind with and new vestige during a short rest, provided you have the requisite items on hand; if this would cause you to exceed your maximum number of bound vestiges, you immediately expel one vestige of your choice. You may attempt to re-bind with a specific vestige during the day, but the DC for the binding check increases by 5 every time a re-binding is attempted, and any abilities already expended do not refresh; this resets after a long rest.
    A binder, while bound, may not use his Pact Magic spell slots to cast spells, though he may still use cantrips. Should a binder take the Pact of the Tome, he learns gains one additional Vestige seal.


    Patron Vestige
    Starting at level 6, choose a vestige that you can summon. That vestige becomes your patron vestige. Binding your patron vestige takes half the amount of time it normally would, and you have advantage on the binding check.

    Soul Protection
    Starting at level 10, your constant contact with your vestiges hardens your mind and spirit, protects you from effects that would harm either. You gain resistance to psychic damage, and you are immune to the frightened condition.

    Vestige Master
    Starting at level 14, you are always considered bound to your patron vestige with a good bond. This counts against your total number of bound vestiges.

    Vestige Lord
    At level 20, you reach the height of your binding power. As an action, you may draw more strongly upon your patron vestige, refreshing your use of all its associated powers. You must take a long rest before you can do this again. This replaces the normal 20th level warlock ability.

    List of vestiges

    Spoiler: Ipos, Prince of Fools
    Show
    Ipos, Prince of Fools
    Special - You must have proficiency in Intelligence (arcana) to summon Ipos with a good pact.

    Sign - You grow long, black fingernails

    Influence - If any creature asks you a question about a subject that you have any knowledge of, you must inform them to your greatest ability and present as much information you have, acting as if your were the definitive authority on the subject.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: Your nails are as hard and as sharp as steel. You gain two natural claw attacks that deal 1d6 damage. You must show Ipos' sign to use this ability.

    Pact Strength 2: You can cast the spell See Invisibility without using a spell slot. You cannot do this again until after you take a short or long rest

    Pact Strength 3: You gain proficiency with three of the following skills as long as you have Ipos bound: Arcana, history, investigation, nature, religion, or medicine. You may change which three you have proficiency in after a short or long rest.

    Pact Strength 4: You can cast Protection from Energy at will without using a spell slot

    Pact Strength 5: Your claws grow longer, sharper, and more fearsome. You gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage with them, they now deal 1d8 damage, and are counted as magic weapons. You must show Ipos' sign to use this ability.

    Pact Strength 6: You gain the ability to rend with your claws. On any turn in which you hit with each of your claw attacks, you may use your bonus action to automatically hit with a third claw attack. This attack is a critical hit.


    Spoiler: Elgior, The Dragon Slayer
    Show
    Elgior, the Dragon Slayer
    Special - You must place a small pile of lizard scales, or one dragon scale, in the seal when you call him. Metallic Dragonborn have advantage when binding Elgior, while Chromatic Dragonborn have disadvantage. This does not apply if Elgior is your patron vestige.

    Sign - One of your hand becomes covered in dragon scales of a random color. This never matches whatever color your skin happens to be, and will always stand out.

    Influence - You feel immense pity for outcasts, and will strive to help them whenever you can; as well, you will attack humans, elves, or dragons in combat in preference to any other creature

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain proficiency in medium and heavy armor and shields

    Pact Strength 2: You have resistance to one of the following damage types: acid, cold, lighting, or fire. You may select a different damage choice following a short rest. The scales on your arm change color to match a dragon that uses the chosen damage type.

    Pact Strength 3: As a bonus action, designate a target you can see: your melee attacks against that target deal an extra 1d6 damage of the type you are resistant to.

    Pact Strength 4: You can cast Find Steed at will without using a spell slot. The summoned steed is, statisticly, a normal war horse; visibly, it is covered in dragon scales that match the color of the scales on your arm, and it's type is Dragon. The steed only lasts as long as you are bound. You must show Elgior's sign to use this ability.

    Pact Strength 5: The scales on your arm spread and grow, covering your arms, chest, and neck.you gain a +2 bonus to your armor class. You must show Elgior's sign to use this ability.

    Pact Strength 6: You gain immunity to the damage type you are resistant to.


    Spoiler: Orthos, Sovereign of the Howling Dark
    Show
    Orthos, Sovereign of the Howling Dark
    Special - You must summon Orthos in bright illumination (at least as bright as a roaring campfire). Additionally, Orthos will not bind to a warlock that is bound to Tenebrous.

    Sign - You are buffeted by a wind that no one else can feel, even when you are indoors; this is not strong enough to knock you over, but it will cause your robes to flow, hair to tussel, and other such visible effects. This wind will always go in an opposite direction of the prevailing winds.

    Influence - You hate areas of complete darkness; you must always have a light source that is at least as bright as a candle near you. You also despise loud noises; you will attempt to silence anyone or anything that is making a noise above a whisper, and you will never voluntarily speak above that.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain the message cantrip. In addition, you can cast the spell detect magic without using a spell slot.

    Pact Strength 2: You can cast the gust of wind spell without using a spell slot. You must take a short rest or long before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 3: You can cast the mirror image spell without using a spell slot. You must take a short rest or long before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 4: You gain blindsight out to 60 ft.

    Pact Strength 5: You can cast conjure elemental or control winds* without using a spell slot. You must take a short rest or long before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 6: You can cast investiture of wind* without using a spell slot. You must take a long rest before you can use this ability again.


    Spoiler: Paimon, The Dancer
    Show
    Paimon, the Dancer
    Special - You must draw Paimon’s Seal with an exceptionally sharp knife.

    Sign - One side of your mouth becomes wider than the other, as though unnaturally stretched.

    Influence - You become lascivious and overly bold, and constantly seek to gain the attention of females; your own gender has no bearing on this. Additionally, Paimon requires that you dance whenever you hear music(move at half speed), and you are at a disadvantage against the save for Otto’s Irresistable Dance

    Powers
    Pact Strength 2: You gain proficiency with the rapier, the shortsword, and the Performance skill.

    Pact Strength 3: While you are wearing light or no armor and wielding a one handed weapon with nothing in your other hand, your armor class equals 10+your dexterity modifier + your charisma modifier.

    Pact Strength 4: As an action, you may move up to half your speed. At the end of this movement, you may make an melee weapon attack, adding your charisma bonus to the attack roll.

    Pact Strength 5: While you are wearing light or no armor, your movement speed increases by 15 ft.

    Pact Strength 6: On your turn, you may use a bonus action to make one melee attack with a weapon you are holding or take the disengage action.

    Pact Strength 7: You double your proficiency bonus on Performance checks. In addition, once per turn, you deal an additional 1d8 damage when attacking with a finesse weapon.


    Spoiler: Savnok, The Instigator
    Show
    Savnok, the Instigator
    Special - You must have stolen something and made neither reparations nor apology for the act.

    Sign - A piece of an arrow appears somewhere under your skin on your body. The piece deals you no damage, and cannot be removed, but is highly noticeable and shows up on a normally exposed patch of skin.

    Influence - You refuse to take off armor you are wearing or let go of any shield you are holding. You take all penalties for sleeping in armor if you decide to do so.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain proficiency in shields, and in one martial weapon of your choice.

    Pact Strength 2: You can summon a suit of medium or heavy armor as an action on your turn; the type of armor is determined by your pact strength.
    2 – Chain Shirt or Ring Mail
    3 – Scale Mail or Chain Mail
    4 – Breastplate or Splint Armor
    5 – Half Plate or Plate Armor
    You are considered proficient with this armor, and it has no minimum strength requirement. This armor vanishes if you take it off. You may banish a summoned suit as an action.

    Pact Strength 3: You gain one fighting style from the fighter list.

    Pact Strength 4: You learn two Martial Maneuvers from the Battlemaster’s Fighter archetype list. The saving throw for these maneuvers (if they require one) is 8+your proficiency bonus+your Strength or dexterity bonus (your Choice). If you already have superiority dice, you gain one more; otherwise, you gain one d6 superiority die. Once it is expended, you must finish a short rest to regain it.

    Pact Strength 5: Whenever you summon your armor, it now gains a +1 magical bonus, and you may also summon a shield in the same action.

    Pact Strength 6: Whenever you summon your armor, you gain a number of temporary HP equal to twice your level. You must take a short or long rest before using this ability again.


    Spoiler: Andromalius, the Repentant Rogue
    Show
    Andromalius, the Repentant Rogue
    Special - You must obtain two different non-magical items worth at least 1 sp to sacrifice to Andromalius; these vanish following the binding.

    Sign - You gain an extra digit on each limb.

    Influence - Your alignment changes to the closest chaotic alignment (e.g. lawful good becomes chaotic good, neutral becomes chaotic neutral); however, you cannot take possession of anything stolen or steal anything.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 2: You gain the friends cantrip. In addition, you can cast Tasha’s hideous laughter once without using a spell slot. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 3: You can cast the See Invisibility spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 4: You can cast the locate object spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 5: You gain the Sneak Attack ability as a 5th level rogue

    Pact Strength 6: You can cast the mislead spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a short rest or long before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 7: You may create any single non-magical item at will; this item must be small enough for you to personally carry. The created item vanishes when you attempt to make a second item, when you unbind from Andromalius, or following a short or long rest. You may also create one Uncommon Magic item with the same restrictions; if you do this , you may not use this ability to create anything again until you take a short or long rest.


    Spoiler: Shax, Sea Sister
    Show
    Shax, Sea Sister
    Special - You must be within sight of a natural body of water when you summon Shax.

    Sign - You gain a scar around your neck, as if your head had been chopped off and re-attached.

    Influence - You become madly possessive of your possessions and territory, and will quickly resort to violence if either are threatened. Shax also demands that you recieve compensation for any favor or helpful act.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain swim speed equal to your land speed.

    Pact Strength 2: You gain the ability to breathe underwater.

    Pact Strength 3: You gain resistance to lightning and thunder damage.

    Pact Strength 4: Your melee weapon attacks deal an additional 1d8 lightning damage or 1d8 thunder damage, your choice.

    Pact Strength 5: You gain immunity to lightning and thunder damage

    Pact Strength 6: As an action, you may select a number of creatures within 30 ft. of you equal to 1 + your Charisma Bonus. Each of these creatures gains the ability to breathe underwater and a swim speed equal to their land speed as long as they remain within 30 ft. of you. You may use this ability at will, selecting new creatures each time.
    Additionally, as an action, you may grant your selected creatures resistance to lightning and thunder damage and cause their melee weapon attacks to deal an additional 1d8 lightning or thunder damage (your choice). This lasts for one minute. You must take a short or long rest before you may use this ability again.


    Spoiler: Tenebrous, the Shadow That Was
    Show
    Tenebrous, the Shadow That Was
    Special - You must draw Tenbrous’s seal in an area of dim light or darkness. Additionally, Tenebrous will not bind to a warlock that is bound to Orthos.

    Sign - You appear to be standing in shadow, even on the brightest day or in direct light.

    Influence - You are filled with a deep sense of loss, and become listless and sullen. Tenebrous prevents you from acting first in any combat, requiring you to take either the Dodge or Disengage action.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 3: You gain the chill touch cantrip, and the Devil’s Sight Invocation. In addition, you can cast Darkness and Vampiric Touch once each without using a spell slot. You must take a short or long rest before you can use these abilities again.

    Pact Strength 4: You can cast the Banishment spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 5: You can cast the Raise Dead spell once without using a spell slot or material component. You must take a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 6: You can cast the Circle of Death spell once without using a spell slot or material component. You must take a long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 7: You can cast the Finger of Death spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 8: As a bonus action, you can negate all light in up to a 30 ft sphere around you, the area becomes magical darkness. You can shut this on or off as a bonus action, or you can decide how big it is (out to a maximum of 30 ft) or change it to dim light. Additionally, you can cast the Abi-Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a long rest before you can use this ability again.


    Spoiler: Marchosias, King of Killers
    Show
    Marchosias, King of Killers
    Special - You must have committed a sufficiently evil act, purely for the sake of being evil, and not made amends or reparations for it. Simple slights or thievery are not sufficient, but the act need not be overly heinous.

    Sign - Your eyes constantly glow with an orange-red light.

    Influence – You become sly and suspicious of all around you, and your actions become more brutal and nasty than they would normally be. This is never sufficient to change your alignment, but may come close.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 2: You gain proficiency in Stealth checks. In addition, you can cast the command spell once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 3: You gain the Beguiling influence Invocation; this does not count against your number of known invocations. If you already have this invocation or proficiency in Persuasion and/or Deception, you double your proficiency bonus.

    Pact Strength 4: You gain the Mask of Many Faces invocation; this does not count against your number of known invocations.. In addition, you can cast alter self once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 5: You gain the Sneak Attack ability as a 5th level rogue.

    Pact Strength 6: You can cast dominate person once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 7: Your Sneak Attack improves to that of an 8th level rogue.


    Spoiler: Amon, The Void Before the Altar
    Show
    Amon, The Void Before the Altar
    Special - Amon particularly despises four other vestiges: Chupoclops, Eurynome, Karsus, and Leraje. If you have hosted one of these spirits within the last 24 hours, Amon refuses to answer your call. Similarly, these spirits will not answer your call if you are already bound to Amon.

    Sign - You grow a ram’s curling horns.

    Influence - Amon’s influence makes you surly and irritable. In addition, since Amon despises living deities of fire, sun, and law, he forces you to resist even beneficial spells cast by those devoted to such powers. You must make a saving throw to resist such a spell if one is allowed; failure allows you to gain the benefit.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain the Devil’s Sight Invocation. If you already have this, your viewing distance doubles.

    Pact Strength 2: You may use your horns as a natural attack. Butting with your horns deals 1d6 + charisma modifier damage, and you may use your charisma modifier on the attack roll. Your horns are treated as a magical weapon. You must show Amon's sign to use this ability.

    Pact Strength 3: You may cast the spell Fireball once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 4: Your horn’s damage increases to 1d8, and you gain a +1 to your attack and damage rolls with them.

    Pact Strength 5: You gain resistance to fire damage.

    Pact Strength 6: You can cast the Investiture of Flame spell once without using a spell slot. You must take a long rest before you can use this ability again.


    Spoiler: Naberius, The Grinning Hound
    Show
    Naberius, The Grinning Hound
    Special - Naberius values knowledge, industry, and the willingness to deceive- You must have proficiency in History, Arcana, or Deception to summon Naberius with a good pact.

    Sign - Your voice deepens and acquires a gravelly, growling tone.

    Influence - You love the sound of your own voice and are constantly pleased by your cleverness. Whenever you are presented with a pulpit, a stage, a talking stick, or any other place or object designed to give a speaker the floor, Naberius requires that you immediately seize the opportunity to speak. Any topic will do, but since Naberius resents others taking control of the discourse, he requires that you either shout them down or mock them. Your speech must last a number of rounds equal to your level to satisfy Naberius.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain proficiency in three skills which you do not currently have proficiency in, chosen at the time you bind Naberius. You may change which three skills you have proficiency in during a short or long rest.

    Pact Strength 2: You can cast Suggestion once without using a spell slot. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 3: You gain the Mask of Many Faces invocation; this does not count against your number of known invocations.

    Pact Strength 4: You gain the Bewitching Whispers Invocation; this does not count against your number of known invocations.

    Pact Strength 5: When making a Deception, Persuasion, or Intimidation check, you may treat any die result lower than 10 as if you had rolled a 10.

    Pact Strength 6: You heal 1 point in each damaged ability score and restore your HP maximum by 10 points every round.


    Spoiler: Andras, the Gray Knight
    Show
    Andras, the Gray Knight
    Special – You must present a holy symbol of an elven god, broken in half, while summoning Andras

    Sign –You sprout two useless, gray-feathered wings from your back. The wings are small enough to be hidden beneath a shirt or cloak, but doing so makes you appear hunchbacked.

    Influence - Andras’s influence causes you to become listless and emotionally remote. Because Andras wearies of combat quickly, you must drop any items in hand and withdraw from melee after only 10 rounds of battle. You may not take any offensive action for 1d4 rounds thereafter.

    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: You gain are proficiency with the greatsword, lance, longsword, and rapier.

    Pact Strength 2: As an action, you can summon a heavy warhorse, complete with saddle and heavy lance. This creature serves you as a trained mount for up to 1 hour per level, or until it is killed, you dismiss it, or your pact with Andras ends. You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 3: You gain advantage on all Ride checks and Handle Animal checks that deal with horses or other equines.

    Pact Strength 4: When you damage an opponent with a melee weapon attack, you may smite them. You deal 5d8 bonus radiant damage (6d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend). You must complete a short or long rest before you can use this ability again.

    Pact Strength 5: You may cast the Crown of Madness spell at will without using a spell slot.

    Pact Strength 6: Your weapon attacks critical on a 19 or 20




    I'll be adding the rest of the vestiges from the Tome of Magic over the next few days. Hopefully, you all dig the direction i took this!
    Last edited by Submortimer; 2015-06-09 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Changed Pact Magic & binding interaction

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    katarl's Avatar

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    d20 Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    I really like this Patron, it delivers a lot of what the Binder was without having to go to the trouble of making a whole new class for it, it's simple and elegant. Some of the mechanics you mention, however, are completely divorced from the class-designing philosophy that the other classes are based on, and might be better expressed some other way- here's an example:

    A binder does not gain the Pact Magic ability, and does not gain spell slots or spells known, with the exception of cantrips. Should a binder take the Pact of the Tome, instead of gaining spells known he instead gains one Vestige seal.
    This means that to take this patron, you are giving up half of your class features to do it. From a balance perspective that's fine, because you gain as much as you lose, but from a design perspective, why have class features you can't use, and sacrifice as soon as you get them? I would recommend changing the above paragraph with this one to get the same result:

    A binder currently bound to a vestige cannot cast spells, with the exception of cantrips.
    I feel that this would make the class more attractive to players, without seriously affecting game balance, and mean that you can keep the original warlock class table. It has some precedence as well, given that a Barbarian cannot cast while using his class feature, rage.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Quote Originally Posted by katarl View Post
    I really like this Patron, it delivers a lot of what the Binder was without having to go to the trouble of making a whole new class for it, it's simple and elegant. Some of the mechanics you mention, however, are completely divorced from the class-designing philosophy that the other classes are based on, and might be better expressed some other way- here's an example:



    This means that to take this patron, you are giving up half of your class features to do it. From a balance perspective that's fine, because you gain as much as you lose, but from a design perspective, why have class features you can't use, and sacrifice as soon as you get them? I would recommend changing the above paragraph with this one to get the same result:



    I feel that this would make the class more attractive to players, without seriously affecting game balance, and mean that you can keep the original warlock class table. It has some precedence as well, given that a Barbarian cannot cast while using his class feature, rage.
    So, I knew that bit would probably get the most pushback. The issue here is the fact that, if you give him spells AND all the vestige powers, it's just too much. The idea is that the vestiges replace the spells: structured versatility, with abilities that spells cannot give you.

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    d20 Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    You don't need to reinvent the wheel, you can fix the problem of class balance, and solve future multiclass problems by prohibiting spells while bound. Suddenly, vestiges are a tactical choice- do you want spells or granted abilities?

    It looks better too, to retain everything, and keep the same class table.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Hmm... I'll try it out. I still don't intend on giving them an expanded spell list.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Pretty neat, I like what you've done with this

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Thanks, I'm glad you do! Thanks for giving me the go ahead to work on your stuff!

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    A binder, while bound, may not cast spells with the exception of cantrips. Should a binder take the Pact of the Tome, he learns gains one additional Vestige seal.
    Does that limitation include spells granted through invocations? It seems pretty harsh to remove entire options of class features. Just my immediate thoughts, still digesting. I do like what I see though.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Hmm...that was not the intent, as many of the vestige's give you access to single use spells. Let me re-word that.

    Edit: Annnd done. The intent is that the binder trades his spells for vestige powers, which are inherently more limited, but likely more powerful.
    Last edited by Submortimer; 2015-06-09 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    How did I nearly let this thread get away I'll never know...

    Spoiler: General
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    1. Right off the bat,while you can bind three vestiges at once, but there seems to be overlap between some vestiges (i.e. at least 2 vestiges are handing out Mask of many faces, which the warlock can get on his own anyway, thus 3 different sources for the same ability) overlapping features/options are usually a serious issue, because 2 options that offer the exact same feature make combining the two a subpar choice (most of the time). When making options as highly customizable as vestiges, you get a lot more mileage from making distinct abilities, bonus points if they compliment each other.
    2. Handing out Skill proficiencies with vestiges can get pretty wild. Feats notwithstanding, The normal binder who doesn't get a skill from race has 4 skills he is proficient in. 3 vestiges mean another 3 skills, which makes 7 skill proficiencies without any work. And if you picked Naberius or Ipos- oh ho ho! You have 9 or 11 skill proficiencies (much more than the rogue), 3 of which are purely wildcards for a day. I advise against mixing skill and saving throw proficiencies into pact magic because this is exploitable. A good alternative is advantage on specific things, adding a d4 to the check result, allowing more options to someone who used this kind of ability check with this vestige... It takes a little creativity, Submortimer, but you are teeming with that stuff!

    Spoiler: Specific Vestiges
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    1. I'm surprised you weren't tempted to give Orthos the Gust cantrip unless you were saving it for Leraje like I did. Is there a mechanical problem with combining Orthos and Tenebrous? that's the main reason one should prohibit mixing vestiges.
    2. @Andromalius. As was clarified to me, I'll pass on to you - friends is not a reliable enchantment cantrip, unless you're planning to kill the bloke you're enchanting within the next minute.
    3. A more major issue arises though: the way 5e is built and designed, one does not simply get magic items without the DM's timely consent. WotC intentionally separated that factor for character balance. There's an unfathomable amount of utility you can achieve by "renting" whichever whichever magic item you need when you need it. My 5e suggestion? Don't mix magic items and class features.
    4. I like what you did with Shax - slowly hoard some nice buffs and then gain the ability to hand out all of them I think you could even afford to give a little more with shax to really put icing on the cake

    Spoiler: Specific abilities
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    1. Andromalius and Marchosias both offer sneak attack as a rogue of X level. if it stacks (=13th level rogue) it's very powerful given that you are still not a real rogue (inb4: you have much more skills than rogues have, too!) if it doesn't stack, then having both of them is a waste.
    2. I already sort of mentioned naberius, though everything he has that others don't makes him worthwhile, but cool it with the skills, please.
    3. It's good that Andres gives crown of madness - that's part of his thing. Though it's not worth it as a 10th level warlock. I suggest either swapping it with an earlier level feature, powering it with bonus actions, or making it affect multiple targets. Unless you have a better idea


    SUMMARY
    The rest of the vestiges are quite well. I like them, but again - the mechanic you used for Shax stands out for me

    While you have a few ups and downs mentioned above, I still very much approve of this - much thanks to you for making this, and thanks to Belac who came up with the concept
    Keep up the good work!
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Powers
    Pact Strength 1: Your nails are as hard and as sharp as steel. You gain two natural claw attacks that deal 1d6 damage. You must show Ipos' sign to use this ability.
    To clarify, do you get to attack with both claws when you take the Attack action? Does it stack with Extra Attack? With the Warlock's Pact of the Blade extra attack Invocation? Or do you just get an Unarmed Strike that deals 1d6+str?
    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigoAlves
    Once a player almost fell into a trap full of spikes. He asked me "how much damage would a spike do?"
    I said "Instant death"
    Then, he grabbed a spike and used it as a weapon for the rest of the adventure.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImSAMazing View Post
    To clarify, do you get to attack with both claws when you take the Attack action? Does it stack with Extra Attack? With the Warlock's Pact of the Blade extra attack Invocation? Or do you just get an Unarmed Strike that deals 1d6+str?
    Hmm...I thought I put that in there. The intent is that you gain Multiattack with those claws, allowing you to use your action to attack with each for 1d6+str. Since its multiattack, it does not stack with extra attack or Thirsting blade.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: Vestiges (Binder)

    Quote Originally Posted by Submortimer View Post
    Hmm...I thought I put that in there. The intent is that you gain Multiattack with those claws, allowing you to use your action to attack with each for 1d6+str. Since its multiattack, it does not stack with extra attack or Thirsting blade.
    Thanks for clarifying. I really like this Patron.
    Quote Originally Posted by RodrigoAlves
    Once a player almost fell into a trap full of spikes. He asked me "how much damage would a spike do?"
    I said "Instant death"
    Then, he grabbed a spike and used it as a weapon for the rest of the adventure.

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