Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 261
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXIX. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

    Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was 60 threads ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
    NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, June 21st, 2015 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, July 5th, 2015 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities

    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code immediately below (spoiler)
    Spoiler
    Show
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    You've been asking for a while, and I finally got round to typing it up, so this month's Secret Ingredient is:
    Oriental Adventures' Shiba Protector!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

    Allez, optimiser!

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Spoiler: The First Fifty
    Show
    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
    Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
    Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus
    Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger

    Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
    Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight
    Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite
    Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer
    Iron Chef LV: Mountebank
    Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender
    Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner
    Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword
    Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna
    Iron Chef LX: Lasher
    Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego
    Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord
    Iron Cheff LXIII: WItchborn Binder
    Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord
    Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide
    Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter
    Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer
    Iron Chef LXIX: Fang of Lolth
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2015-06-27 at 05:48 PM.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    FAQ:
    Q: What's this even about?
    A: I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
    A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    Q: What about 3.0 materials?
    A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
    A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    Q: What about online sources in general?
    A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
    A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
    A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
    A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

    Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
    A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2015-06-28 at 01:39 PM.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Huh. What a strange class. I've never really looked at it before. Nothing leaps out at me as being especially noteworthy, but maybe I'll get inspired.

    Can we get an official ruling on whether One With Nothing is as useless as it is by RAW? As a supernatural ability without a listed activation time, it defaults to being a standard action to turn it on. Which means that you can't really do much with it, since it'll have worn off by the time you get another action. I guess you can use it to run far with your move action . . . but probably not farther than you could have moved just by taking a double move action.

    RAI seems that it would be a free action (or maybe a swift action, though I think those didn't exist when OA was written), but RAW, it's a standard action and therefore pretty much a useless ability. How do you want us to treat it?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 26. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Been asking for this one for some time ... now to figure out how to use this glorified 10 level long 1-level prc in its full length

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    ... Heliomance you are a devil....
    Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter

    Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    I am ruling that One with Nothing and One with All and Nothing are both nonactions. For three rounds per day you may simply choose to act as if hasted, no activation required. Similarly, no activation is required to replace an ability score - you choose it, and it is so.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2012

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Yeah, I'm likely in. I love the OA classes, even this one.

    For the Aid Shugenja class feature, just to be clear, does the Shugenja make the spellcraft check, or does the Shiba Protector?

    I'm assuming that when the text says "For a single round, the samurai can act as if under the effect of a haste spell." it instead means the Shiba Protector?
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deadline's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Necro-equestrian Pugilism
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    For anyone who's having trouble finding the class, it's on pages 222-223 in the book (it's not listed with the normal prestige classes).
    Awesome avatar by Iron Penguin!

    Signature of Holding

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    I've had one stewing for this for a while. I'll be sure to get a build in.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    I am ruling that One with Nothing and One with All and Nothing are both nonactions. For three rounds per day you may simply choose to act as if hasted, no activation required. Similarly, no activation is required to replace an ability score - you choose it, and it is so.
    you are merciful. this takes the class from "complete trash" to "there's still some cheese left on this pizza box"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Yeah, I'm likely in. I love the OA classes, even this one.

    For the Aid Shugenja class feature, just to be clear, does the Shugenja make the spellcraft check, or does the Shiba Protector?

    I'm assuming that when the text says "For a single round, the samurai can act as if under the effect of a haste spell." it instead means the Shiba Protector?
    same. I just can't help myself. this is what I get for requesting this class.

    that's actually clear in the RAW (shocking, I know) the sample shiba protector is consistently referred to using female pronouns. ergo, the shugenja makes the spellcraft check, not you.

    as far as the second one, never assume



    this weird class tells a member of one class what to do as a class feature, why not another?

    (NB: I'm kidding, heliomance, please don't take away our haste)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    For anyone who's having trouble finding the class, it's on pages 222-223 in the book (it's not listed with the normal prestige classes).
    even OA is trying to protect us from this class.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
    Iron Chef Deep Freeze: Turning Tables on Old Dishes

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deadline's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Necro-equestrian Pugilism
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    that's actually clear in the RAW (shocking, I know) the sample shiba protector is consistently referred to using female pronouns. ergo, the shugenja makes the spellcraft check, not you.
    See, I thought that given the low DC (10) and the fact that the Shiba Protector gets Spellcraft as a class skill, that it was the Shiba Protector that makes the check.
    Awesome avatar by Iron Penguin!

    Signature of Holding

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    See, I thought that given the low DC (10) and the fact that the Shiba Protector gets Spellcraft as a class skill, that it was the Shiba Protector that makes the check.


    that was your first mistake
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
    Iron Chef Deep Freeze: Turning Tables on Old Dishes

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    I'll judge this round, using the following criteria.
    Spoiler: Judging Criteria
    Show
    Building a viable PC in accordance with the rules (of D&D, and of the contest) is the mission.
    If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included.
    I'll try to reconsider the character after it's stripped of whatever was illegal, but you may well get to a minimum score if significant parts of the character are invalid. (I'm not going to try to redo your build to make the illegal parts right and then judge my version of the character.) Failing to follow the rules may cause your build to fall apart. For instance, if you fail to meet the requirements to enter a prestige class, all the levels of that class you don't qualify for will have to be stripped out and you might be left with a build of just a few levels instead of the 20 you're supposed to have. If you choose to use a race which has no level adjustment listed for PCs you'll automatically receive a minimum score in all categories, with no further consideration of the character.

    Dot your Ts and cross your Is, Chefs! Errors can be embarrassing!


    Innovation
    Innovation is half (2.5 points) subjective, and half based on what the other competitors come up with. If you suprise me you're good for the subjective part, but if everyone surprises me with similar ingredients you'll all suffer lower scores. Top marks come when you surprise me and also distinguish yourself from the competition. Your original choices also have to make sense for the meal; nobody is going to applaud horseradish on your ice cream.

    Power
    Power of the overall character should be in line with the power of the SI. Slightly better in all respects is perfectly acceptable; that's the ideal recipe. Much more powerful in any one aspect will lose you points, just as adding habanero peppers to a dish that calls for a little cayenne will ruin the meal. More powerful in many ways will send your score toward the minimum; you'll have made something quite zesty, but it won't be the right dish for the competition. You'll receive similar deductions if you fall significantly below the power of the SI. If your character relies on gear you need to list all such equipment requirements, just as you would specify a Culinique pan in a Baked Alaska recipe.

    Elegance
    No story is required, but if you do include one you need to make it both readable and worth reading.
    Use it, link it.
    Every element of your build is going to get scrutinized by all the judges. If there's an opportunity to link to an online class description, feat, spell, or whatever: use it, link it; it will save time in evaluating your build. If you fail to follow this rule you're deliberately prioritizing your time over that of every judge. If there's no online source please include book title and page number at the first use of each reference.

    Adding a section which explains how your entry satisfies each of the the Innovation, Power, Elegance, and Use of Secret Ingredient contest criteria is your opportunity to show your culinary skills to maximum effect. Don't assume that build synergies are obvious to anyone but you: explain to the judges how your recipe combines flavors. I'm disinclined to improve scores afterward for elements you failed to highlight in your entry, so finish your presentation before submitting rather than later as disputes.

    Using many sources will never hurt your score if the elements work together. If they don't work well together, keeping the list of sources short won't help you. Similarly, I won't penalize for class dips if they result in a build which works well with the Secret Ingredient. Spending XP gratuitously (on multiclassing penalties, for instance) will hurt your score; I'll consider XP use exceeding the maximum for level 20 (209,999) a mechanically illegal build. If you've got any Level Adjustment, include it at the end of your build table so feats and skills are represented at the correct levels.

    Finally, don't forget the little details. Include place of origin, alignment, subrace, patron deity, point buy numbers, racial and template adjustments, schedule of ability increments, languages, class variants, ACFs, substitution levels, and anything else that's necessary to understand your character.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    Your meal should make the best use of the SI from first course to last. If you cram the SI in the last levels of your build without justifying that choice you should expect a low score; you'll have served up only desert rather than a full meal. If you make the rest of the meal bland purposely to showcase the SI you should expect a low score. If the rest of the build doesn't blend harmoniously with the SI you should expect a low score, regardless of whether those choices make the character stronger or weaker. You don't have to use every level of the Secret Ingredient, but if you leave something out you need to show that doing so results in a build which makes better use of the SI (not merely a better character overall).

    In short, the build needs to demonstrate why the Secret Ingredient is the best choice for your meal, and not simply there to satisfy a contest requirement.
    By posting these criteria well ahead of time I hope to head off avoidable disappointment.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2015-06-09 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Update: no LA buyoff allowed

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Two SI's in a row that can't use the spreadsheet makes me sad.

    Please, tell me the judges aren't going to penalize us this round for assuming that the party has a Shugenja in it.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

    Power
    Power of the overall character should be in line with the power of the SI. Slightly better in all respects is perfectly acceptable; that's the ideal recipe. Much more powerful in any one aspect will lose you points, just as adding habanero peppers to a dish that calls for a little cayenne will ruin the meal. More powerful in many ways will send your score toward the minimum; you'll have made something quite zesty, but it won't be the right dish for the competition. You'll receive similar deductions if you fall significantly below the power of the SI. If your character relies on gear you need to list all such equipment requirements, just as you would specify a Culinique pan in a Baked Alaska recipe.
    I have some questions.

    I do not understand this. you are saying that if a character is too powerful, it will score low in power, but if it's not powerful enough, it will also score low in power. I do not foresee any circumstances, where a character could get a 5 in power under these rules.

    EleganceUsing many sources will never hurt your score if the elements work together. If they don't work well together, keeping the list of sources short won't help you. Similarly, I won't penalize for class dips if they result in a build which works well with the Secret Ingredient. Level Adjustment and a moderate amount of LA buyoff are fine with me as long as you follow all the related rules. Spending XP gratuitously (on multiclassing penalties, for instance) will hurt your score; I'll consider XP use exceeding the maximum for level 20 (209,999) a mechanically illegal build. If you've got LA that's not bought off, include it at the end of your build table so feats and skills are represented at the correct levels.


    Finally, don't forget the little details. Include place of origin, alignment, subrace, patron deity, point buy numbers, racial and template adjustments, schedule of ability increments, languages, class variants, ACFs, substitution levels, and anything else that's necessary to understand your character.
    LA buyoff is actually explicitly disallowed by the rules, like gestalt or spellpoints, since it is a variant system and puts contestants who use it at an unfair advantage. it is illegal for iron chef.

    what is "place of origin?" do you just mean what setting, or something more specific like breland or silverymoon? do you want all of these things listed in a footnote, or just if they are relevant? (i.e., does someone who's not required specifically to revere a particular god and it doesn't come up narratively still need a listed patron)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    Your meal should make the best use of the SI from first course to last. If you cram the SI in the last levels of your build without justifying that choice you should expect a low score; you'll have served up only desert rather than a full meal. If you make the rest of the meal bland purposely to showcase the SI you should expect a low score. If the rest of the build doesn't blend harmoniously with the SI you should expect a low score, regardless of whether those choices make the character stronger or weaker. You don't have to use every level of the Secret Ingredient, but if you leave something out you need to show that doing so results in a build which makes better use of the SI (not merely a better character overall).
    so everyone needs to finish it early/ontime to get a good uotsi score? but then I also see that if I put it early to show it off, I will be penalized. and I don't have to finish? I do not understand how these ideas fit together. like with power, they seem at odds. would you kindly explain what a 5 in uotsi looks like to you? (not "tell me what to build" but how would it fulfill these things you said?)
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
    Iron Chef Deep Freeze: Turning Tables on Old Dishes

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    I do not understand this. you are saying that if a character is too powerful, it will score low in power, but if it's not powerful enough, it will also score low in power. I do not foresee any circumstances, where a character could get a 5 in power under these rules.
    The overall power of the character would need to be close to that of the SI to gain a top score.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    LA buyoff is actually explicitly disallowed by the rules ...
    Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.
    You've ignored the "such as" limitation in this rule, and I don't see the "reducing level adjustments" rule as either being like Gestalt/generic classes or creating a different playing field. LA buyoff is pretty simple; the rule (with examples) takes less than a page. I've also made it very clear that there's a reasonable, quantified limit to extra XP (for all purposes, not only LA buyoff). You can ask our esteemed IC Chair for an additional contest rule tightening things up here (such as a fixed 190,000 XP budget so that someone using LA buyoff or casting a spell costing a few XP during character development wouldn't be able to go past level 19), but I don't see how that makes for better cooking. I've always thought that flexibility was to be encouraged in creative endeavors such as Iron Chef.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    what is "place of origin?" do you just mean what setting, or something more specific like breland or silverymoon? do you want all of these things listed in a footnote, or just if they are relevant?
    It's whatever is necessary to understand the build. If "Greyhawk" is sufficient for the character, it's sufficient for me. If you're relying on a [Regional] feat you need to be more specific.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    so everyone needs to finish it early/ontime to get a good uotsi score? but then I also see that if I put it early to show it off, I will be penalized. and I don't have to finish? I do not understand how these ideas fit together. like with power, they seem at odds. would you kindly explain what a 5 in uotsi looks like to you? (not "tell me what to build" but how would it fulfill these things you said?)
    The highlighted statement is incorrect. Making the other classes in the build uninteresting to show off the SI will make for an overall dull character, and the score will reflect that. Entering the SI as soon as you can, other factors being equal, is a good thing. This competition is about creating an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D 3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient". Reading level 5 and level 10 character snapshots when there's no trace of Secret Ingredient is not flavorful (at least not flavorful in ways that satisfy the competition goals). The SI should be central to the build, not a tacked-on appendage.

    As I stated, if you delay SI entry you simply need to explain why that makes its use in the character better. Making the SI the last levels in the build for no stated reason means you've failed to use the SI up until that point. What score for "Use of Secret Ingredient" should you expect if you've purposely avoided using the Secret Ingredient for half the build?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    The overall power of the character would need to be close to that of the SI to gain a top score.
    harsh. but I understand now what you're saying.

    You've ignored the "such as" limitation in this rule, and I don't see the "reducing level adjustments" rule as either being like Gestalt/generic classes or creating a different playing field. LA buyoff is pretty simple; the rule (with examples) takes less than a page. I've also made it very clear that there's a reasonable, quantified limit to extra XP (for all purposes, not only LA buyoff). You can ask our esteemed IC Chair for an additional contest rule tightening things up here (such as a fixed 190,000 XP budget so that someone using LA buyoff or casting a spell costing a few XP during character development wouldn't be able to go past level 19), but I don't see how that makes for better cooking. I've always thought that flexibility was to be encouraged in creative endeavors such as Iron Chef.
    in every past round, people who took LA buyoff were rightfully penalized for giving themselves free templates, because it is against the rules of the competition.

    I never said it wasn't simple, just that, like gestalt, it gives cooks who use it an unfair free boost over those who don't cheat.

    as you said, I will leave it to the chair to officially rule against it. I thought it was clear from the FAQ for our past contests.

    flexibility is, but giving yourself free boosts (such as saying a dread necro with all the corpsecrafter things boosted your undead guy) is not.

    It's whatever is necessary to understand the build. If "Greyhawk" is sufficient for the character, it's sufficient for me. If you're relying on a [Regional] feat you need to be more specific.
    got it.

    The highlighted statement is incorrect. Making the other classes in the build uninteresting to show off the SI will make for an overall dull character, and the score will reflect that. Entering the SI as soon as you can, other factors being equal, is a good thing. This competition is about creating an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D 3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient". Reading level 5 and level 10 character snapshots when there's no trace of Secret Ingredient is not flavorful (at least not flavorful in ways that satisfy the competition goals). The SI should be central to the build, not a tacked-on appendage.

    As I stated, if you delay SI entry you simply need to explain why that makes its use in the character better. Making the SI the last levels in the build for no stated reason means you've failed to use the SI up until that point. What score for "Use of Secret Ingredient" should you expect if you've purposely avoided using the Secret Ingredient for half the build?
    oh, okay. I misunderstood what you meant by "bland"

    I don't agree with your uotsi criteria, but they are internally consistent and I understand them now. thanks for clarifying.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
    Iron Chef Deep Freeze: Turning Tables on Old Dishes

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    got a qulification question.

    Race: Human (Phoenix) ... Is this explicitly disallowing everything but humans or would human-like races, being Humanoid (Human) (as per variant rules in Races of Destiny p150), or taking Human Heritage (Feat from same book), be allowed.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Expertise was updated to Combat Expertise in 3.5 right?
    Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter

    Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Says so in the 3 -> 3.5 update booklets

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    See, I thought that given the low DC (10) and the fact that the Shiba Protector gets Spellcraft as a class skill, that it was the Shiba Protector that makes the check.
    Huh. That was my thinking as well. And seeing as it'll force you all to take some Spellcraft,that's the interpretation I'll run with :evillaugh:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Two SI's in a row that can't use the spreadsheet makes me sad.

    Please, tell me the judges aren't going to penalize us this round for assuming that the party has a Shugenja in it.
    Actually you can, as of last week.

    As for LA buyoff, I thought I'd disallowed it in the rules. Apparently I hadn't, so I will do so now. No LA Buyoff. I won't enforce a hard and fast XP limit for crafters and such, but I'll issue a subjective don't go overboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    got a qulification question.

    Race: Human (Phoenix) ... Is this explicitly disallowing everything but humans or would human-like races, being Humanoid (Human) (as per variant rules in Races of Destiny p150), or taking Human Heritage (Feat from same book), be allowed.
    AFB at the moment, so I can't check. I think it means Human only, but I'm willing to be proved wrong by those who know therules better than I.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2015-06-09 at 01:17 AM.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

    Avatar by Rain Dragon

    Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    clarifying (or expanding) on the previous question.

    Is it only standard 'no-frills' Core Human or does 'Variant Humans' such as Azurin or Silverbrow qualify?
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-06-09 at 03:50 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WeaselGuy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Depending on free time available, I might be in for this one. I like me some OA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Regardless of what happened, I welcome WeaselGuy's Weasel into our little community.
    Quote Originally Posted by ComaVision View Post
    My ten foot pole and I are going to go prod less dangerous traps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserlight View Post
    Your hexblade turns out to be a holy sword imbued with the spirit of R Lee Ermey. "Stand up straight, maggot! Shoulders back, chin up, eyes front, and suck in that gut! I'm going to make a man out of you, maggot, even if it kills you!"
    My Extended Sig!
    Kobold Weasel Rider Avatar done by ThePrez1776
    House Min'Doan PbP - Zif'coip Min'Doan

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Race: Human (Phoenix) ... Is this explicitly disallowing everything but humans or would human-like races, being Humanoid (Human) (as per variant rules in Races of Destiny p150), or taking Human Heritage (Feat from same book), be allowed.
    Taking a feat to gain the human subtype when you already have the human subtype would be redundant. I will be exceedingly obstinate about this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    clarifying (or expanding) on the previous question.

    Is it only standard 'no-frills' Core Human or does 'Variant Humans' such as Azurin or Silverbrow qualify?
    Choosing your clan has nothing to do with your subrace, and there's nothing in the OA rules that says the clans are exclusively restricted to vanilla humans. So presumably Azurin or Silverbrow humans that grew up in the Phoenix clan are treated just like any other Human (Phoenix).

    Once your clan is chosen, then you get one skill that is always considered a class skill, and your human bonus feat must [EDIT] may be selected from a list of [ancestor] feats specified by your clan. For the Phoenix clan:

    Knowledge (arcana) is always a class skill.
    Favored class: Shugenja.

    Ancestor feats:
    Discipline
    Great Diplomat (likely banned, as it is too similar to Leadership)
    Keen Intellect
    Oni's Bane
    Scholar of Nature
    Spellcaster Support

    (Many of these feats were updated or reworded in Dragon #318.)

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Once your clan is chosen, then you get one skill that is always considered a class skill, and your human bonus feat must be selected from a list of [ancestor] feats specified by your clan. For the Phoenix clan:

    Knowledge (arcana) is always a class skill.

    Ancestor feats:
    Discipline
    Great Diplomat
    Keen Intellect
    Oni's Bane
    Scholar of Nature
    Spellcaster Support
    I would like to know where in OA that this is stated , what page please, as I am not finding the above information in the book

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Says so in the 3 -> 3.5 update booklets
    For reference, you can find these booklets here.

    The steps to use Oriental Adventures content in a 3.5 build are as follows:
    • Apply the 3.0 errata file, which you can download here.
    • Apply the 3.5 update in Dragon # 318.
    • Make general 3.0->3.5 updates using those booklets.
    • Go through the early 3.5 list of replacements for Feats, Prestige Classes, and Spells here.
    • Consult the Consolidated Lists Archive for more replacements, such as the Void Disciple PrC being replaced (in Complete Divine) just one month after the OA 3.5 update.
    • If you had a DM, this would be where you'd talk to them about issues which still aren't addressed.

    I think that's all of it. If I've overlooked anything, please send up a flare.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Secret Lair on Sol c
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    I would like to know where in OA that this is stated , what page please, as I am not finding the above information in the book
    Page 9 has the infomation

    [...]If the character comes from one of the great clans, this feat must be an ancestor feat. Otherwise it may be any feat


    scratch that, Dragon 318 update revokes this rule, in the intro-blurb about ancestor feats.
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-06-09 at 07:38 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    I would like to know where in OA that this is stated , what page please, as I am not finding the above information in the book
    OA page 59, second paragraph after "Feats".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    scratch that, Dragon 318 update revokes this rule, in the intro-blurb about ancestor feats.
    Huh. I missed that. Thanks!

    Here's the relevant text from page 37 of Dragon #318:

    "Human characters from one of the great clans are no longer required to spend their bonus feat slot on an ancestor feat. Choosing an ancestor feat is a good option for many characters, but never a requirement. Any character can choose an ancestor feat, but only at 1st level. No character can have more than one ancestor feat."

    Something else I forgot... if you choose the Phoenix clan, your favored class becomes shugenja. I don't see any indication that this is in addition to the existing Human favored class, so I'm assuming this means "shugenja" *replaces* how favored class normally works for humans. This means you could get dinged with a multiclass penalty by a judge who penalizes that sort of thing. I have no idea if selecting a clan also supercedes your racial abilities as a subrace, such as Azurin or Illumian... primary source gets a bit muddled, as OA is the primary source for the Phoenix Clan but something like MoI is the primary source for Azurin. However, the changes to favored class were never mentioned in Dragon #318, so we may want to rely on the "minor adjustments" clause from page 4 of the DMG to resolve a discrepancy between the 3.0 OA rules and the subsequent 3.5 sourcebooks. I would encourage the judges to be flexible on this point.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Oriental Adventures specifically bans certain Base Classes (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Wizard). Are those bans in effect here? If not, how will they impact judging, if at all?
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


    Spoiler
    Show

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sunnydale

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIX

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Oriental Adventures specifically bans certain Base Classes (Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Wizard). Are those bans in effect here? If not, how will they impact judging, if at all?
    That ban is for characters native to Rokugan. To enter Shiba Protector you have to be a Phoenix Clan Human. Phoenix Clan is a noble house native to Rokugan. I don't see how choosing any of those base classes can be other than a failure to qualify.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •