Resurrecting Strahd

[CowardlyPaladin]

I am running Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, the 3.5 version, and the cleric in my group has just suggested that instead of killing Strahd, they should beat him down and she will resurrect him in order to restore him to life and make the region far more safe. Basically i'm trying to make the game world more like real life Eastern Europe and less like "primatania" so Strahd's reputation has kept the other lords from occupying the Valley and they want to keep the villagers independent and think "hey look its Strahd" will do that. The group all think this is a great idea and i'm like "ummmmm"

So....guys.....is this possible? I mean

1) Could you even pull it off? And if so how without killing him?

2) What would he do considering Strahd willingly became a vampire?

3) How would this effect Barvoria? has anybody tried this before/knows of someone who did?

[Yora]

Is this simply the County of Barovia or the Demiplane of Dread? In the later case you'd have the Dark Powers who want him to be cursed as a vampire and could simply reverse the players action. If he is just a regular powerful vampire, destroying him and then resurrecting him as a human would work.

[LibraryOgre]

If this is the 3.x version, consider that Strahd may not want to be resurrected, and so would not allow it.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Is this simply the County of Barovia or the Demiplane of Dread? In the later case you'd have the Dark Powers who want him to be cursed as a vampire and could simply reverse the players action. If he is just a regular powerful vampire, destroying him and then resurrecting him as a human would work.

Just the county, but how could you keep him down long enough to resurrect him.

[1337 b4k4]

If this is 3e, it's worth noting that according to the SRD, neither Resurrection nor Raise Dead can be used on Undead Creatures (which I'm assuming Strahd counts as). B/X doesn't seem to have such a restriction.

[CowardlyPaladin]

If this is 3e, it's worth noting that according to the SRD, neither Resurrection nor Raise Dead can be used on Undead Creatures (which I'm assuming Strahd counts as). B/X doesn't seem to have such a restriction.

I thought if you resurrected an undead the original person comes back, like what Durkon wanted to do with Malak

[DigoDragon]

According to the spell descriptions in the d20 SRD, you cannot use the spells on the undead. They have to be 'destroyed' first. Also, the spells only works on willing souls that want to be resurrected, so if Strahd doesn't want to come back, then the spells won't work on him.

You may wish to inform the cleric of these points, so the party doesn't waste the involved time and expense of trying the plan.

[CowardlyPaladin]

According to the spell descriptions in the d20 SRD, you cannot use the spells on the undead. They have to be 'destroyed' first. Also, the spells only works on willing souls that want to be resurrected, so if Strahd doesn't want to come back, then the spells won't work on him.

You may wish to inform the cleric of these points, so the party doesn't waste the involved time and expense of trying the plan.

Problem is in my game they resurrected a lesser vampire (Ireena for those asking) using that, so I can't go back on it. As for the plan...well its crazy but I'm curious, would Strahd not want to come back? I have to imagine its better than hell.

[NecroRebel]

Problem is in my game they resurrected a lesser vampire (Ireena for those asking) using that, so I can't go back on it. As for the plan...well its crazy but I'm curious, would Strahd not want to come back? I have to imagine its better than hell.

Wasn't the whole point of Ravenloft's treatment of Strahd and the other lords to be a(n un)living hell for them? The Evil planes aren't typically as personalized as Ravenloft is. Also, in the standard cosmology, the aligned planes are actually all just what people of the associated alignment really want, meaning for a Lawful Evil character Hell is heavenly - all about order, ambition, and clawing your way to the top by any means.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Wasn't the whole point of Ravenloft's treatment of Strahd and the other lords to be a(n un)living hell for them? The Evil planes aren't typically as personalized as Ravenloft is. Also, in the standard cosmology, the aligned planes are actually all just what people of the associated alignment really want, meaning for a Lawful Evil character Hell is heavenly - all about order, ambition, and clawing your way to the top by any means.

This is the 3.5 Expedition, not the champaign setting. Here Strahd's only torment is not having his lover.

[1337 b4k4]

I thought if you resurrected an undead the original person comes back, like what Durkon wanted to do with Malak

The SRD seems to make a distinction between someone who was made undead and an undead creature.

Problem is in my game they resurrected a lesser vampire (Ireena for those asking) using that, so I can't go back on it. As for the plan...well its crazy but I'm curious, would Strahd not want to come back? I have to imagine its better than hell.

Depends on Strahd's motivations in your game. You've already deviated from RAW, no reason you have to stick with it here. In your game, you've already established that vampires can be resurrected. So run with that now, if they can be, why hasn't Strahd done so? If he's really in torment, wouldn't he seek a cleric on his own to end his torment? So the fact that he hasn't yet tells you something, maybe he's not really in torment. Sure he doesn't have his lover, but would coming back give him that? Is that trade worth it even if it would? Or maybe he's too old?

As a GM, the plan sounds like fun and could be awesome. Clearly your players are behind it and I can't think off the top of my head how it could ruin the fun to allow it, so there's no technical reason to stop it, now it's just a matter of deciding the fiction.

[CowardlyPaladin]

The SRD seems to make a distinction between someone who was made undead and an undead creature.



Depends on Strahd's motivations in your game. You've already deviated from RAW, no reason you have to stick with it here. In your game, you've already established that vampires can be resurrected. So run with that now, if they can be, why hasn't Strahd done so? If he's really in torment, wouldn't he seek a cleric on his own to end his torment? So the fact that he hasn't yet tells you something, maybe he's not really in torment. Sure he doesn't have his lover, but would coming back give him that? Is that trade worth it even if it would? Or maybe he's too old?

As a GM, the plan sounds like fun and could be awesome. Clearly your players are behind it and I can't think off the top of my head how it could ruin the fun to allow it, so there's no technical reason to stop it, now it's just a matter of deciding the fiction.

Fair enough, lets do this then.

Right, so people who know Strahd the character, what do you think he would do? After all, unlike most, he willingly became a vampire, so returning to normal wouldn't sound appealing to him. But if the players pull this off, then would he take a chance at life rather than letting himself die and presumably go to hell. But he is a 400 year old vampire who basically embodies Aristocratic privilage, so pride is very VERY important to him.

[Lord Torath]

Fair enough, lets do this then.

Right, so people who know Strahd the character, what do you think he would do? After all, unlike most, he willingly became a vampire, so returning to normal wouldn't sound appealing to him. But if the players pull this off, then would he take a chance at life rather than letting himself die and presumably go to hell. But he is a 400 year old vampire who basically embodies Aristocratic privilege, so pride is very VERY important to him.

What is the party's end goal for this situation? Are they trying to defeat evil? Improve the lives of the people in his barony? What would prevent Strahd from seeking out another vampire and regaining his undead status? Is a mortal Strahd better for his people than one of his neighbors?

[CowardlyPaladin]

What is the party's end goal for this situation? Are they trying to defeat evil? Improve the lives of the people in his barony? What would prevent Strahd from seeking out another vampire and regaining his undead status? Is a mortal Strahd better for his people than one of his neighbors?

The valley Barvoia is surrounded by very many cruel feudal lords, kings, and Barons (so your basic middle ages nobility) and if they added the valley to their holdings, it would be nothing more than another place to fight over land, with the peasants taking the damage. Strahd through his person reputation for fear (and magical powers) has kept multiple medieval kingdoms at bay, to the point where everybody leaves Barvovia alone. IF Strahd dies, the predatory feudal powers might take the valley, and for all his faults, strahd ensures a peaceful and mostly unharmed populace (occasional disappearances none withstanding) They don't want to leave the valley defenseless when they leave. Now they don't know that Strahd willingly became a vampire and think that he is like Durkon, the real Stradh is trapped away.

[Mr Beer]

When resurrected, Strahd might do a deal with the Power of whatever plane his soul is residing in. Perhaps he comes back, no longer undead, but just as powerful in a different way. He could come back pretending to be a new man while secretly plotting a major shakeup of the status quo.

[Rabidmuskrat]

When resurrected, Strahd might do a deal with the Power of whatever plane his soul is residing in. Perhaps he comes back, no longer undead, but just as powerful in a different way. He could come back pretending to be a new man while secretly plotting a major shakeup of the status quo.

This seems good. Why does the party think that changing him from vampire to human will make him any less evil and monstrous? If anything, it will just piss him off for taking away some of his cool powers. So they bring him back, he feigns thankfulness and immediately starts plotting against the party even as he begs them for help to keep his newly un-vampire-protected little kingdom safe from all of the conventionally mean lords from the surrounding area.

At this point, you flip the game from horror-hack-and-slash to political thriller. The party brought Strahd back from vampirism, now they have to help stabilize the political situation and the resulting power vacuum. To prevent the other nations from invading directly, Strahd invites envoys from each for a diplomatic get-together. Rumours of his mortality have of course begun to spread so representatives (brothers, cousins, trusted advisers, war heroes, etc) actually show up, if only to confirm them.

None of them like Strahd, of course - he has done some pretty despicable things in his time, even by their very morally grey standards - and as a result there are several plots to assassinate him all going concurrently, even as Strahd himself is trying to frame someone for trying to kill him and get the PCs involved as his personal bodyguards. Meanwhile there is lots of hobnobbing with nobility who treat these crazy murderhobos who brought a psychotic vampire back to life with large degree of (grudging) respect.

In the end, Strahd makes a pact with some kind of Nether Entity (the wierder the better) for incredible power in an attempt to kill everyone there, PCs included. Double points if you can make it so that the PCs helped him achieve this. Triple points if the party had to do something morally dubious ("for the greater good, you understand"). Then boss fight, round 2. Bet you they won't try to resurrect him this time round.

[CowardlyPaladin]

This seems good. Why does the party think that changing him from vampire to human will make him any less evil and monstrous? If anything, it will just piss him off for taking away some of his cool powers. So they bring him back, he feigns thankfulness and immediately starts plotting against the party even as he begs them for help to keep his newly un-vampire-protected little kingdom safe from all of the conventionally mean lords from the surrounding area.

At this point, you flip the game from horror-hack-and-slash to political thriller. The party brought Strahd back from vampirism, now they have to help stabilize the political situation and the resulting power vacuum. To prevent the other nations from invading directly, Strahd invites envoys from each for a diplomatic get-together. Rumours of his mortality have of course begun to spread so representatives (brothers, cousins, trusted advisers, war heroes, etc) actually show up, if only to confirm them.

None of them like Strahd, of course - he has done some pretty despicable things in his time, even by their very morally grey standards - and as a result there are several plots to assassinate him all going concurrently, even as Strahd himself is trying to frame someone for trying to kill him and get the PCs involved as his personal bodyguards. Meanwhile there is lots of hobnobbing with nobility who treat these crazy murderhobos who brought a psychotic vampire back to life with large degree of (grudging) respect.

In the end, Strahd makes a pact with some kind of Nether Entity (the wierder the better) for incredible power in an attempt to kill everyone there, PCs included. Double points if you can make it so that the PCs helped him achieve this. Triple points if the party had to do something morally dubious ("for the greater good, you understand"). Then boss fight, round 2. Bet you they won't try to resurrect him this time round.

Remember, the party thinks that Strahd didn't become a vampire willingly, that he was bitten and turned and so is like Durkon, trapped in his body. And since this is the 3.5 expedition not the campaign setting he can't contact the Powers

[TheThan]

Easy solution.

They can do it. it might even help Barvoria out a for a little while.

However the Dark powers, being what they are. Will make Strahd a vampire again. So they can defeat him and resurrect him, but it won’t matter.

[Spore]

According to other things I've read about Strahd is that he is a decent wizard and probably has enough tricks and illusions to almost fool everybody into believing he is still undead. So unless the other barons buy a wizard with True Seeing and they get the spell caster allowed as cohorts when visiting the hold, there is no way they can identify him as "not-so-undead" anymore.

But if he liked his undead being, maybe he should try to become a Lich because the heroes have driven away potential vampiric sources (and if his dark ritual needs a few hundred townsfolk to create his phylactery, so be it).

[CowardlyPaladin]

Again, not set in the Ravenloft Champaign setting, this is the 3rd edition game, based on the Dark Powers. My question really is this

1) Would Strahd try to protect his people even after turning mortal?

2) Would Strahd betray the party for revenge even if they spared his life.

[Lurkmoar]

Again, not set in the Ravenloft Champaign setting, this is the 3rd edition game, based on the Dark Powers. My question really is this

1) Would Strahd try to protect his people even after turning mortal?

2) Would Strahd betray the party for revenge even if they spared his life.

Yes. They're HIS PEOPLE. He may do horrible things to them, use their bodies as dancing skeleton puppets, but he doesn't let other people play with his things. Is he still motivated to capture Tatyana's reincarnation and make her his bride? All the more reason for not to let others mess with his peasants.

I believe he's petty enough to be motivated for it, but only if he stood a fair chance of success and it didn't take too many resources of his. If the party was able to kill him and rez him, odds are he'd want to beef up. He's far from stupid.