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View Poll Results: Enter this creature into the MiTP2?

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  • Kryhger: Yes!

    10 83.33%
  • Kryhger: No!

    2 16.67%
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Danu's Avatar

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    Default [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    KRYHGER
    Medium Magical Beast
    Hit Dice: 1d10+2 (7 hp)
    Initiative: +5
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), swim 30 ft, fly 20 ft. (clumsy)
    Armor Class: 15 (+1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
    Base Attack/ Grapple: +1/ +3
    Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
    Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2), 2 claws +1 melee (1d6+1), 2 wing slaps +1 melee (1d4+1), tail slap +1 melee (1d8+1)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./ 5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Pounce, rake 1d6+1, ravage 1d8+1, rend 1d8+1
    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, hold breath, lightning fast, scent
    Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +1
    Abilities: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 8
    Skills: Climb +6, Hide +6, Move Silently +6, Swim +10
    Feats: Multiattack
    Environment: Warm or temperate marsh
    Organization: Solitary or pair
    Challenge Rating: 3
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Usually neutral
    Advancement: 2-8 HD (Medium), 9-14 HD (Large), 15-25 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment +2 (cohort)

    Lurking in the deep marsh, a pair of ophidian eyes stare hungrily into yours. As you look closer, you realize the eyes are framed by a powerfully muscled head, almost half-cat and half-crocodile, with a wide jaw and rows of razor-like teeth. The rest of the creature is built in that strangely powerful, yet almost clumsy way.

    A kryhger is a beast that appears to be some bizarre amalgamation between a crocodile and panther. With the great cat's long sleek form, a kryhger's otherwise svelte and glossy obsidian colored coat is interrupted by rough black scaly skin, similar to that found on most aquatic reptiles.
    The head of the beast is much larger than one would expect, with a wide jaw and rows of powerful teeth. Along its back are placed massive wings which, while apparently clumsy, look powerful enough to crush a man with a single blow. Its cat-like form ends with the tail, which is about as wide as the creature's body and powerful muscled.
    The entire creature bristles with arrogance and restrained power, its dark eyes glowing with a hostile intellect.

    PERSONALITY/RELATIONS
    A kryhger is an innately aggressive and fiercely territorial creature. Despite this, they have a keen intellect, and rarely attempt to attack creatures they associate with trouble. Young kryhgers quickly learn to associate humanoids, giants, dragons, and hags with immense danger, and will go out of their way to avoid such creatures. While a solitary boatman might not be much of a challenge, a group of adventurers can be extremely dangerous.
    Most kryhgers encountered by adventurers are controlled or manipulated by more powerful monsters. In some cases, a kryhger might be driven to attack when itís food supply is running low.
    Oddly, a kryhgerís favorite food has been noted to be a rather unusual source of meat. According to many ancient journals, kryhgers are extremely fond of the flesh of trolls. They treat such food as a delicacy, as the typical krygher is incapable of killing a troll on its own.

    ORIGIN
    The origin of these creatures is hotly debated by the few scholars actually familiar with them. Arguments fly over whether they are a magical experiment, or a naturally evolved aberration formed from the magical hybridization.
    In truth, the creatures are ancient descendent of creatures native to the elemental plane of water, which traveled to the material plane several thousand years previously. While their ancient forebears have long since gone extinct, the kryhger remains solidly entrenched in the marshes and rivers today.

    COMBAT
    Kryhgers prefer to get into combat with their charge so they can make full use of their attacks and gain the +2 bonus on attack rolls. If a kryhger has problems hitting a particular foe, it will retreat and regroup. Although they have wings, kryhgers rarely use them for any purpose except to hit enemies.
    Lightning Fast (Ex): Kryhger's gain a +4 racial bonus on Initiative checks, and a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.
    Pounce (Ex): If a kryhger charges a foe, it may make its full attack, including two rake attacks.
    Hold Breath (Ex): A kryhger can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 x its Constitution score before it risks drowning.
    Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +1 melee, damage 1d6+1
    Ravage (Ex): If a kryhger hits with its bite and both claw attacks, it rips into the flesh of its opponent, automatically dealing an additional 1d8+1 points of damage.
    Rend (Ex): If a kryhger hits with both claw attacks it latches onto its foe's flesh and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 1d8+1 points of damage.
    Skills: Kryhgers have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. They have a +2 racial bonus on Climb checks. Kryhger's have a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimmng, provided it swims in a straight line.
    Last edited by Danu; 2007-07-24 at 02:25 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    So if it rakes it gets 8 attacks...?

    Very cool idea, seems like an overly large number of attacks and a slightly low HD to me, but I like it. Swamp crocowingypanthermonsterthing!
    Nice fluff too.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    I like it, but it seems a bit too glass cannon;
    the sheer number of attacks could completely wreck a 1st-3rd level party, and the fly speed and pounce can lead to a very dangerous monster.

    But one well placed shot will kill it.
    I'm worried that if it gets hit before attacking it's unimpressive, but if it gets a single pounce off it will kill someone easily.

    Still, it holds a lot of potential-very good job.
    Last edited by ArmorArmadillo; 2007-04-26 at 04:56 PM.
    Gnoll Paladin with Zanbatou Avatar by Oregano.

    Homebrews:

    Quote Originally Posted by ExHunterEmerald
    Incidentally, Armadillo, I'd suggest you were hit by a spark of inspiration, but that would knock your armor off.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Icewalker: Yep. Ordinarily, a rake attack is a single natural weapon. Most creatures that have it use it when they've established a grab, and they can only do it once. I patterned this after the leopard, which gets two rakes when they pounce.

    Assuming the creatures pounces, it has the potential of getting off 10 seperate attacks. Bite, claw, claw, wing slap, wing slap, tail slap, rake, rake, rend, ravage. Rake activates only if it pounces, rend activates only with two successful claw attacks, and ravage activates only when both claws and the bite hit. (Kryhger's likely learned the rending trick from their favorite prey: trolls.)

    That's a potential of 4d6+1d4+3d8+13, and an average of 43 damage. This would outright kill a 2nd (or even 3rd) level character. However, it's attacks are actually below average for it's CR, making the chance it'll hit much less likely then other CR2 creatures.

    ArmorArmadillo: Glass cannon... I like that. That's a pretty apt description of what I was going for.

    For the CR it's geared towards, the kryhger is likely to hit maybe 50% of the time with it's bite, and maybe a 1/3rd of the time with it's other attacks, assuming the target has a AC in the range of 14 (easy for spellcasters, with just 1 mage armor, more difficult for low-cash low-level fighter-types).

    The creatures also scale exceedingly well, for level by level encounters. Give it a few HD, and it's attack power improves drastically. The Monster Manual states that it's typically +1 to the CR for every 3 HD added. That +3 to hit, another feat, and another 23 hit points. With 40 hit points, and a +6 on it's bite, it's still only 50/50 on it's hitting ability, but it can take a lot more punishment. Even so, it's a good fight for a 3rd to 4th level party.

    And when the creature becomes Large, that's even more fun, since it's a better challenge for a higher level party. The extra strength will drastically improve it's chance to hit, and the extra Con will make it all the tougher.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Bump!

    And away we go...

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    I think everything that can be said about this has been said...

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Lord Iames Osari's Avatar

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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Has this been submitted to the main thread?

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    That would practically guarantee a kill against a level 1 character if it won initiative.

    Imagine polymorphing the monk into that thing....

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    guurrrgggglllll

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Bumping for more votes.

    Please vote yes!

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Lord Iames Osari's Avatar

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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Bump. Keep voting, people!

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    I like this, but I'm not clear on the Skill Points. Looks to me like it only has 2?

    Climb +6 [4 (Racial) + 2 (Strength)]
    Hide +6 [4 (Racial) + 1 (Dexterity) +1 (Skill Point)]
    Sneak +6 [4 (Racial) + 1 (Dexterity) +1 (Skill Point)]
    Swim +10 [8 (Racial) +2 (Strength)]

    I think you have 2 left to spend [4 x (2-1)]
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after oneís own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    Ė Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Need to specify the source of the initiative bonuses on the initiative line. I would also consider increasing the number appearing, that way you can throw them at higher level parties, and the statistics will cause the high variability of damage dealt (0 to LOTS depending on who gets initiative and how it rolls as has been mentioned) to average out more often.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew
    I like this, but I'm not clear on the Skill Points. Looks to me like it only has 2?
    Actually, kryhgers only have a +2 racial bonus on Climb checks. But good eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei
    Need to specify the source of the initiative bonuses on the initiative line.
    Why? The 3.5 standard stat block doesn't include the sources for a creature's initiative. I usually stick with that, except where it comes to the flavor text below the stat block and above the combat section.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei
    I would also consider increasing the number appearing, that way you can throw them at higher level parties, and the statistics will cause the high variability of damage dealt (0 to LOTS depending on who gets initiative and how it rolls as has been mentioned) to average out more often.
    Taken under consideration.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Some feedback and such; I haven't read the comments from the others, to avoid potentially being influenced by what they have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danu View Post
    Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2)
    Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+2), 2 claws +1 melee (1d6+1), 2 wing slaps +1 melee (1d4+1), tail slap +1 melee (1d8+1)
    Quite simply, this attack routine is way too good for a CR 2 critter.

    Now, granted, the attack routine has a low chance of hitting. But if two or more attacks hit, we're looking at a dead party member. And that starts even in the first round, because it can charge and make a full attack.

    And that doesn't even take into consideration rake, ravage, and rend.

    Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, hold breath, scent.
    Put these in alphabetical order.

    Alignment: Always neutral.
    Why? They're intelligent, so why can't one make the decision to be a mean son of a bitch and kill whatever comes near it? Why can't one make a decision to protect it's swamp and aid whomever runs into trouble within it?

    I can't think of any good reason why they're always neutral.

    In my opinion, the "always" tag should be reserved for outsiders and things without the ability to make decision (such as mindless undead, constructs, and animals). The True Neutral alignment should be reserved - in most cases - for things that act or react by instruction only (many constructs, mindless undead), and creatures which lack the ability to make a moral decision (such as animals).

    And yes, I know that by my definitions above skeletons and zombies should be neutral, not evil. I do in fact believe that should be the case.

    Lurking in the deep marsh, a pair of ophidian eyes stare hungrily into yours. As you look closer, you realize the eyes are framed by a powerfully muscled head, almost half-cat and half-crocodile, with a wide jaw and rows of razor-like teeth. The rest of the creature is built in that strangely powerful, yet almost clumsy way.
    This text is meant to describe the creature; you should strive to avoid assuming actions or reactions on the part of the PCs. If you chop the underlined text from the section above, you have good flavor without telling the PCs what they did or how they reacted.

    A kryhger is a beast that appears to be some bizarre amalgamation between a crocodile and panther. With the great cat's long sleek form, a kryhger's other-wise svelte and glossy obsidian colored coat is interrupted by rough black scaly skin, similar to that found on most aquatic reptiles.
    "Otherwise" is one word, not hyphenated.

    The head of the beast is much larger then one would expect, with a wide jaw and rows of powerful teeth.
    I know "then" and "than" confuse a lot of people. "Then" refers to time or timing. "I went to the store, then I went out for lunch."

    "Than" is used in comparisons. "My mom is uglier than your mom."

    You should be using the word "than" above, because you're making a comparison - the creature's actual size compared to what the average observer would expect.

    Along its back are placed massive wings which, while apparently clumsy, look powerful enough to crush a man with a single blow. Its cat-like form ends with the tail, which is about as about as wide as the creature's body and powerful muscled.
    Ditch the underlined text. :)

    Flavorwise, that's a really wide tail. It doesn't taper down to a small point at the end? It remains as wide as the creature for the whole length?

    PERSONALITY/RELATIONS
    A kryhger is an innately aggressive and fiercely territorial creature. Despite this, they have a keen intellect, and rarely attempt to attack creatures they associate with trouble. Youn kryhgers quickly learn to associate humanoids, giants, dragons, and hags with immense danger, and will go out of their way to avoid such creatures. While a solitary boatman might not be much of a challenge, a group of adventurers can be extremely dangerous.
    Typo; the underlined word should be "young."

    Oddly, a kryhgerís favorite food has been noted to be a rather unusual source of meat. According to many ancient journals, kryhgers are extremely fond of the flesh of trolls. They treat such food as a delicacy, as the typical krygher is incapable of killing a troll on its own.
    This presents a rather interesting synergy, actually. It might be in a troll's interest to allow a pet kryhger to take a nibble every now and then. The flesh'll regrow pretty darn quick, and he'd have a fairly loyal pet that way.


    Lightning Fast (Ex): Kryhger's gain a +4 racial bonus on Initiative checks, and a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.
    This ability needs to be listed under the SQ line up in the stat block.

    Ravage (Ex): If a kryhger hits with its bite and both claw attacks, it rips into the flesh of its opponent, automatically dealing an additional 1d8+1 points of damage.
    Rend (Ex): If a kryhger hits with both claw attacks it latches onto its foe's flesh and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 1d8+1 points of damage.
    So, does it get to do both, or does it have to pick one?

    ***

    In my opinion, there's way too much potential to kill a 2nd level character. It has lots of attacks, and then it has bonus attacks if some of those other attacks hit. Here's my advice:

    * Lose the wings. They really don't seem to have any purpose to the creature, and are just there to make them more troublesome.
    * Remove either Ravage or Rend.

    Even then, you're still going to create lots of trouble for a 2nd level party. You might want to bump the hit dice up to 3 or 4, and increase the CR accordingly. That way the PCs will be able to withstand the damage these things can dish out on a full attack.

    Interesting critter, overall. Just needs a few tweaks to bring the power level in line with the CR.
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Quote Originally Posted by Danu View Post
    Actually, kryhgers only have a +2 racial bonus on Climb checks. But good eye.
    Ah, my mistake.

    I think Zherog may be right about the Challenge Rating and Hit Dice.
    It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after oneís own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.

    Ė Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [MiTP2] The Crocodilian Dervish

    Of course I'm right.
    John Ling
    Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer

    Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.

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