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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Experience calculation

    Ok so I really dont understand how to calculate the experience a party aquires. So here is the set... please help. I am new here and will put some info about me in the bottom...

    The PCs are two lvl 1 characters. They were captured and forced to fight in an arena (easy way to start the campaign off with some action). They had to fight 3 waves of enemies. Only one wave at the time but no chance to heal properly, replenish ammo or anything like that in between. The three waves were...

    1. One gobling. CR: 1/2
    2. Three kobolts. CR: 1/3 each..
    3. A gladiator I basically copied from "Fighter sample lvl 1" from PH. I downgraded it some though cause they were gonna get slaughtered! (Nerfed his speed to 15 even if it was of medium size, lowered damage and AC midely).

    So to begin with is this one encounter (since they had barely any time to breathe between round) or 3 (since they fought each battle separately)? Please help me calculate all the xp they get each! They also recieved no treassures what so ever for this (they only earned their freedom) so probably gonna boost their xp some extra in the end..

    To my understanding you get more XP if the encounter in general had difficult pre-conditions. Such if you slay a kobolt that was almost strappted for you to kill you gain less XP than if you balance on a rope while protecting a princess that wants to die and you slay an evil kobolt! In this case it was pretty straight forward though! They were only required to make a fatigue check (due to no food or water for several days in prison before the gladiator arena). One played failed and suffered -1 on almost all checks and dmg. The other one had endurance and thus was immune to fatigue..

    About me: I played some dnd back in the days (like 10 years ago) very unseriously. While I am more mature now and got more mature friends we've started to make our boardgaming evenings to dnd evenings. Is great fun! But I am not the best DM; consider myself a beginnerm, though quite familiar with playing a PC. Many rules slip out of my mind while we play and checking them up takes so long time when you just want to make a simple action and keep the fight going.

    Thanks in advance! All people who voluntarily share information here should be of any good alignment!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Red Fel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Experience calculation

    This link may be useful. So let's try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofclarity View Post
    The PCs are two lvl 1 characters. They were captured and forced to fight in an arena (easy way to start the campaign off with some action). They had to fight 3 waves of enemies. Only one wave at the time but no chance to heal properly, replenish ammo or anything like that in between. The three waves were...

    1. One gobling. CR: 1/2
    2. Three kobolts. CR: 1/3 each..
    3. A gladiator I basically copied from "Fighter sample lvl 1" from PH. I downgraded it some though cause they were gonna get slaughtered! (Nerfed his speed to 15 even if it was of medium size, lowered damage and AC midely).
    Well, first, let's calculate each stage independently.
    - One CR 1/2 Goblin vs. two ECL 1 PCs: 75 xp each.
    - Three CR 1/3 Kobolds vs. two ECL 1 PCs: 150 XP each.
    - One ECL 1 Fighter vs. two ECL 1 PCs: 150 xp each.
    - Total: 375 xp each.

    Now, let's run it through the calculator all together.
    - One CR 1/2 Goblin + three CR 1/3 Kobolds + one ECL 1 Fighter vs. 2 ECL 1 PCs: 375 xp each.

    That's right. Despite the fact that facing them all at once would be basically lethal for a pair of level 1 PCs, according to calculations based solely on the CR of the creatures involved, facing all of them at once grants the same xp as facing them in stages.

    Now, I would probably give them a bonus for facing them all at once. Be advised, however, that xp is not a substitute for WBL; advancing the PCs too quickly means that they lack the resources necessary to take on level-appropriate challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofclarity View Post
    Thanks in advance! All people who voluntarily share information here should be of any good alignment!
    ... You watch your mouth.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Experience calculation

    Is this 1 encounter or 3? A bit of both. They didn't get any break time inbetween but neither did the enemies get to gang up on them. You could treat it either way depends on if you wanted to be easier or harder. I would treat them as separate encounters but increase the CR of each encounter slightly to symbolize the added challenge.

    I would not boost xp to compensate for no loot. Eventually you would have the PCs be under equipped for otherwise reasonable encounters. Rather I would just remember to add a bit more loot next time.

    Yes you a right that things that modify the difficulty of an encounter also modify the xp gains(as I referred to above when I would bump the CRs up a bit).


    In conclusion:
    You had 3 waves(3 encounters) made up of a CR 1/3, a CR 1/2 and a CR 1. However the CR 1 was nerfed to 15ft speed so let's call it a CR 1/2. Then let's increase the CRs a step as a best estimate for the lack of break time between waves. So not we have 3 encounters of CR 1/2, CR 1, and CR 1. Since this party was at half strength(only 2 members) that sounds about right given your description of the PCs' struggle.

    Now XP is given on a Monster by Monster and Player by Player basis according to table 2-6(pg 38) of the DMG. So you have 2 1st level PCs. The first gets (150xp(Level 1:CR1/2)+300xp(Level 1:CR1)+300xp(Level 1:CR1))/2(number of players) so that is 750/2=375xp. There is an example at the top of the 2nd column on page 37 that gives more detail of stranger cases(like PCs of different levels).

    When there are multiple monsters in an encounter I houserule the XP is given Encounter by Encounter to reduce the work. It works rather well.

    Edit: oops I missed that there were 3 kobolds.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2015-07-08 at 09:07 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Experience calculation

    As you can see, the xp calculation was 375 for everything. 375 just isn't that much, so what can we do to make up for that? Well, for one, they don't have a four player party. That's an immediate disadvantage as far as the rules of the game are concerned, and worthy of an xp bump. They got roughed up before hand (even if they made the save vs starvation/fatigue, they still had to suffer through it/save against it) so that's worth a bit for hardship. And if you had them fighting naked with weapons not of their choice, that's it's own level of cruel cruel hardship (and completely in keeping with gladiatorial combat).

    All together I would give them double normal xp (750) and then tack on another 250 or 300 as quest experience for earning their freedom. Which, in a 3.5 game gets them to level 2, in a pathfinder game...well, it gets them closer at least.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Experience calculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagetim View Post
    As you can see, the xp calculation was 375 for everything. 375 just isn't that much, so what can we do to make up for that? Well, for one, they don't have a four player party. That's an immediate disadvantage as far as the rules of the game are concerned, and worthy of an xp bump...

    All together I would give them double normal xp (750) ...
    The calculation already factors in that there are only two PC's. If it were a four person 1st level party, each of them would have only gotten 188 xp.

    Keep in mind that PC's reach 2nd level at a mere 1,000 xp. An XP award of 375 is a LOT of XP for first level characters; it's more than 1/3 the way to the next level. Getting to 2nd level is supposed to take more than 13 'equal level' encounters (ie - a first level character should routinely get about 75 xp per encounter).

    Quote Originally Posted by wingsofclarity View Post
    I am not the best DM; consider myself a beginner [DM], though quite familiar with playing a PC.
    If you don't mind a little self-promotion on my part, I have written a campaign log that many say provides great DM insights. Maybe reading it will help you as you start your journey as a DM. Good luck on your game!
    Last edited by ksbsnowowl; 2015-07-08 at 10:30 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: Experience calculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This link may be useful. So let's try it.
    Am aware of the link and ended up with 375xp each in the end when I ran it too (hurray I did it right!) but the reason I highely doubted it is that this seems WAY too little xp! Was kinda hoping them to get to lvl 2 immediately. Not...

    Quote Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl View Post
    Getting to 2nd level is supposed to take more than 13 'equal level' encounters (ie - a first level character should routinely get about 75 xp per encounter).
    ..after 13 encounters! I guess it was stupid of me to think one battle would do it (or 3)...is just level 1 is so annoying! You get downed in 2 hits (if lucky) and you got barely any feats, spells, abilties or anything fun to deploy in both combat and outside of it!

    To not ruin the session I decided they got to lvl 2 and that if that was way too much xp they would get less later.... as if they were burrowing xp.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl View Post
    If you don't mind a little self-promotion on my part, I have written a campaign log that many say provides great DM insights. Maybe reading it will help you as you start your journey as a DM. Good luck on your game!
    I dont mind and I will check into it! :) Really appreciate all the tips/help I can get...in the end the campaign will be mine anyway!

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