Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

[rax]

They're detailed in the Dark Heresy supplement Daemon Hunter. Don't know if they're in other/more recent supplements as well.

[Destro_Yersul]

To the best of my knowledge, they have never been printed anywhere else.

[Graysire]

Black Crusade Core Rulebook has a Grey Knight stat block, which contains Nemesis Force Sword

[Destro_Yersul]

true, but those stat blocks take modifiers into account. It's hard to extricate the weapon's base stats from those profiles. The one on the profile seems to have the same damage as the one in Daemon Hunter, but a much higher pen, and Force instead of Power Field. It also appears to not take into account the Nemesis weapon special rules.

[Lord Torath]

Are there guidelines for converting from 1st Edition Dark Heresy to 2E DH or the other 40k RPGs?

[Grim Portent]

Black Crusade has a guideline for converting stat blocks from the older games which contained some general rules. It includes a guideline that each multiplier on an Unnatural Stat trait became a bonus of 3-5 when converted forward, Daemonic becomes 3-5 extra TB, Quadruped becomes +2 per additional pair of legs, and Unnatural Speed is gone so any stat blocks with it need adjusted to keep their movement up.

There's also a table for updating the older skills into the new smaller skill list and a rule for how to turn DH1/RT/DW characters into BC ones. I don't think OW had any rules for doing similar.

[Destro_Yersul]

Rogue Trader and (I think?) Deathwatch also had rules for bringing DH1 characters forwards, but those systems are a lot more similar. Directly porting between them actually works, although DH1 characters basically outclass everything because of how much extra XP they get.

[Lord Torath]

The Deathwatch character sheets have some skills pre-filled out (Marines start out knowing these). Some of these skills (Awareness, Climb) have two boxes filled in: Basic(lvl 1) and Trained(lvl 2). Others, like Literacy or Drive-(Ground Vehicles) or Tracking, have only the Trained box filled in, leaving the Basic box empty. I thought you had to have the Basic skill level before you could get the Trained level. Is there a difference between the training level of those skills? Did I miss something in the character creation chapter? Or should those Basic boxes be filled in as well?

Thanks!

[LeSwordfish]

A "Basic" skill is one that any character can try - if a skill is marked as Basic but not trained, you can attempt it at a penalty. If Basic isn't checked, then you need to have the skill Trained.

[Lord Torath]

So if Trained is marked, but Basic isn't it's an Advanced skill (and I'm trained in it, so I can use that skill). And if Basic is checked while Trained is not, it's a Basic skill, but I'm not trained in it, so I use half my attribute when using it.

[LeSwordfish]

Exactly, yes.

[Lord Torath]

Next Deathwatch question: Chapter 2 on character creation, Stage 5 (p 28) lists Standard Issue gear for each specialty. I assume this is the minimal gear each marine starts with, without needing to spend requisition on. A Librarian's Standard Issue includes a bolter w/ fire selector and a force weapon. But Force Weapons have a minimum renown of Respected, which requires at least 20 points of renown before you can requisition one. So is that Renown value what non-librarians need in order to requisition a Force Weapon (but why would they want to?) or does it mean that Librarians must earn 20 Renown before they can use a Force Weapon?

[LeSwordfish]

You get your standard weaponry anyway. The reknown is for if you want to get another (perhaps you lost one).

[Sinewmire]

true, but those stat blocks take modifiers into account. It's hard to extricate the weapon's base stats from those profiles. The one on the profile seems to have the same damage as the one in Daemon Hunter, but a much higher pen, and Force instead of Power Field. It also appears to not take into account the Nemesis weapon special rules.

The details are presumably streamlined to deal with the fact that these are NPCS. The PEN presumably includes the Psy Rating bonus for Force Weapons?

Next Deathwatch question: Chapter 2 on character creation, Stage 5 (p 28) lists Standard Issue gear for each specialty. I assume this is the minimal gear each marine starts with, without needing to spend requisition on. A Librarian's Standard Issue includes a bolter w/ fire selector and a force weapon. But Force Weapons have a minimum renown of Respected, which requires at least 20 points of renown before you can requisition one. So is that Renown value what non-librarians need in order to requisition a Force Weapon (but why would they want to?) or does it mean that Librarians must earn 20 Renown before they can use a Force Weapon?

20 renown is required for a non-librarian to take a force sword (maybe they think they're cool or have managed to pick up a mutation or something) or for a librarian to take additional Force Weapons.
The Standard Issue Gear is what the class will have to start with, without spending any requisition or requiring renown beyond base level.

An apothecary, for example, is not required to requisition his basic medical supplies before a mission - they are issued to him.

We always used to joke that the Chaos Gods had attempted to scatter the information in the rulebooks, in an attempt to drive the reader mad and rob the Emperor of his servants! Combat action: "Grapple" -> See "Grappling" -> See "Grappled" condition.
At least one of those straight up gives the wrong page number, if I recall correctly

[Lord Torath]

Blasted Chaos gods! Now how do I find out what effect adding a monoblade bayonet to my bolter will do?

Looks like the answer is to carefully read the paragraph on Bayonets Astartes Melee Attachment where it says it counts as a combat knife or a chainsword w/o the Balanced quality

Okay, so where do I find a description of the Barter skill? Blather? Are these skills just not taught to the Astartes, and thus no description of those skills appears in Deathwatch?

Also: Suppose I have a Strength of 48, and an item that adds 2 to strength after other modifiers. To me, my base strength mod is 4. Unnatural strength adds another 4. Power Armor adds 20 to my strength (68 now), for another 2. Then that +2 Str item bumps my strength from 68 to 70, for another +1 to my strength mod, for a total of 11. Did I do that right?

[LeSwordfish]

Blasted Chaos gods! Now how do I find out what effect adding a monoblade bayonet to my bolter will do?

Looks like the answer is to carefully read the paragraph on Bayonets Astartes Melee Attachment where it says it counts as a combat knife or a chainsword w/o the Balanced quality

Okay, so where do I find a description of the Barter skill? Blather? Are these skills just not taught to the Astartes, and thus no description of those skills appears in Deathwatch?

Also: Suppose I have a Strength of 48, and an item that adds 2 to strength after other modifiers. To me, my base strength mod is 4. Unnatural strength adds another 4. Power Armor adds 20 to my strength (68 now), for another 2. Then that +2 Str item bumps my strength from 68 to 70, for another +1 to my strength mod, for a total of 11. Did I do that right?

I keep getting "New Post" notifications for this thread and it's often a variation on this post. Are you deleting and recreating it whenever you want to edit something in?

Several skills have been removed from Deathwatch. As for the strength thing: it's a little sideways, but yes: Your strength is 50, so with power armor it's 70, so your SB is 7+4.

[Lord Torath]

Several skills have been removed from Deathwatch. As for the strength thing: it's a little sideways, but yes: Your strength is 50, so with power armor it's 70, so your SB is 7+4.

Okay, good to know. To be honest, "Blather" really doesn't sound like something Marines should be proficient in.

I keep getting "New Post" notifications for this thread and it's often a variation on this post. Are you deleting and recreating it whenever you want to edit something in?

Yup. But only if I add something that needs attention. Lets me ask a new question without double-posting. If the addition is just a comment, or something I don't need feedback on, I'll just edit the previous post. (I have been known to delete a post with a horrible spelling error in it and repost with the error corrected, but that usually occurs within a few minutes of the original post).

[Celticbear]

Hey, I live in the greater Houston area, and I've been looking to play some 40k but I don't know how to reach out to other people. Is there anyone in the Houstonish zone who can tell me if there's some sort of site to talk to people other than this one?

[Lord Torath]

Are Eldar and Necrons detailed in any of the Deathwatch books? They seem to be missing entirely from the core rules and Mark of the Xenos. If none of the DW books detail them, is there another GW RPG that has them and is mostly compatible with Deathwatch?

[LeSwordfish]

Black Crusade and it's expansions cover Necrons. Eldar are scattered through Rogue Trader expansions. Both of those are... broadly compatible, but be prepared to make some compromises.

[Graysire]

I think The Outer Reaches has necron stat blocks

[Lord Torath]

Deathwatch Squad Leaders, Oaths, and Squad-Mode Abilities: Are the squad leader's Chapter squad-mode abilities the only chapter squad-mode abilities that may be used during that mission? (If your squad leader is a Black Templar, the two Space Wolves on the Kill Team may not activate either of their squad mode abilities during that mission).

Similarly, only those Codex Squad Mode abilities listed under the Oath the team takes may be activated on the current mission?

[Haval]

Deathwatch Squad Leaders, Oaths, and Squad-Mode Abilities: Are the squad leader's Chapter squad-mode abilities the only chapter squad-mode abilities that may be used during that mission? (If your squad leader is a Black Templar, the two Space Wolves on the Kill Team may not activate either of their squad mode abilities during that mission).

Similarly, only those Codex Squad Mode abilities listed under the Oath the team takes may be activated on the current mission?

As far as I know everyone can use chapter specific squad modes if they pay cohesion. So the Black Templar can use chapter abilities, but the benefits apply only to themselves and any other Black Templars in the squad. The Space Wolves get the benefits of each other using chapter specific squad mode abilities.

Yes on the second question, but there are chapter specific oaths in First Founding and Honour the Chapter if you need more oaths to choose from.

[Lord Torath]

As far as I know everyone can use chapter specific squad modes if they pay cohesion. So the Black Templar can use chapter abilities, but the benefits apply only to themselves and any other Black Templars in the squad. The Space Wolves get the benefits of each other using chapter specific squad mode abilities.

Yes on the second question, but there are chapter specific oaths in First Founding and Honour the Chapter if you need more oaths to choose from.

I'll have to give those a look. Thanks!

On another note, anyone else find some of the Initiation "rituals" to be a bit unlikely? Or did they change the lore so you don't need to start the Space Marine Organ Implantation at around age 10? The idea of a ten-year-old beating a fully-fledged space marine at anything other than "fit through the really small tunnel" seems fairly ludicrous.

[Wraith]

On another note, anyone else find some of the Initiation "rituals" to be a bit unlikely? Or did they change the lore so you don't need to start the Space Marine Organ Implantation at around age 10? The idea of a ten-year-old beating a fully-fledged space marine at anything other than "fit through the really small tunnel" seems fairly ludicrous.

I varies from Chapter to Chapter and occasionally gets fudged in the lore, but the idea is that they TRY to beat the Space Marine and are more accurately judged on how they go about failing. Those who give up after the first try or are clearly useless with a sword are told to leave; those who show some skill and some balls are considered even if they still get their butt kicked.

It's basically "Klingon Rules". The Space Marine can dismember, maim and kill you within seconds if he feels like it, that's without question; you only "lose" if you get scared and surrender, however. One of those "Secret Tests of Character" kind of thing.

...Unless you're trying to join the Space Wolves, in which case you have to drink a ridiculous amount of beer, eat a stupendous amount of roast meat and generally be loud and impressive, Viking-style, to prove yourself heroic rather than necessarily competent.

[Malak'ai]

I varies from Chapter to Chapter and occasionally gets fudged in the lore, but the idea is that they TRY to beat the Space Marine and are more accurately judged on how they go about failing. Those who give up after the first try or are clearly useless with a sword are told to leave; those who show some skill and some balls are considered even if they still get their butt kicked.

It's basically "Klingon Rules". The Space Marine can dismember, maim and kill you within seconds if he feels like it, that's without question; you only "lose" if you get scared and surrender, however. One of those "Secret Tests of Character" kind of thing.

...Unless you're trying to join the Space Wolves, in which case you have to drink a ridiculous amount of beer, eat a stupendous amount of roast meat and generally be loud and impressive, Viking-style, to prove yourself heroic rather than necessarily competent.

Make that raw meat and having a name like Wolf Wolvesmaw.

[Catullus64]

Hello, thread! I've just recently started up a game of 2E Dark Heresy with some friends, after having pretty much ignored all things 40k for about five years. I though it might be nice to give the Inquisitorial shenanigans context within the broader scope of the Imperium, and thus I innocently ventured onto Lexicanum to see what's changed in the lore since 2013.

Holy God-Emperor! Cadia got blown up (I think?), that new Eldar god finally decided to show up, and now Roboute Guilliman is the new Space King? Even the Golden Throne is apparently bugging out (have we tried adding more skulls? That usually helps.) I leave this franchise alone for half a decade and everything goes right to the warp!

In-universe, I mean. Out-of universe, it all sounds kind of neat, even if it makes me apprehensive that 40k is about to get Age of Sigmar-ed. But, to my original problem, how on Holy Terra am I supposed to tie in my Dark Heresy game with all this nonsense (without just copy-pasting the existing fluff about what the Inquisition was doing about all this)?

[LeSwordfish]

You don't really need to: Dark Heresy is set about three hundred years before the Gathering Storm events.

[Catullus64]

You don't really need to: Dark Heresy is set about three hundred years before the Gathering Storm events.

Not quite my point. I know I don't need to tie my game in with any existing 40k storylines, (I've certainly never bothered to before) but I want to, and was looking for ideas as to how, hopefully from those whose familiarity with said storyline goes deeper than my cursory examination. Even if TGS is still 300 years in the future, the actions of an Inquisitorial warband might still have repercussions that foreshadow that whole mess, or inform it in some way.

[Grim Portent]

Outside a Black Crusade or Rogue Trader game the recent events of the timeline matter little to the average planet, chaos cults are a little more common and the Ecclesiarchy considers Guilliman more prominently in sermons since he's currently the closest thing to the Emperor alive, though the primarchs barely feature in the Imperial Creed anyway and almost no one in the Galaxy really knows who Guilliman actually is.

Unless you're on the far side of the Cicatrix Maledictum things are largely the same as normal, the Administratum, Arbites, Mechanicus and everything else all work as normal. There's the odd primaris marine or custodes running around, but the average human will never see one, or even hear of them outside friend of a friend type stories. Nice thing about the decentralized imperial government is the pieces largely don't care what happens outside their local area.

The Eldar are still doing Eldar stuff, the Orks are still Orky and the Tau are still largely irrelevant to things.

Really the only foreshadowing to it in games set prior to everything happening should be the standard 13th Black Crusade nightmares that psykers and the rare priest get. Abaddon was planning that for a long time and oracles foresaw it millennia in advance, but to my knowledge none saw past it.