Mithril Breastplate = Light armor?

[Tyger]

I know that it is considered light armor for purposes of "movement and other limitations" but what about for mages? The Dread Necro can cast without penalty in light armor... does this mean that they can use mithril breastplates and have no fear of spell failure?

[Talya]

Yes, it does mean exactly that.

[Sornas]

This is something I've seen lots of debate about, but if you ask me, yes, it counts for abilites/proficiencies.

[JaronK]

Basically, for all intents and purposes it's light armour.

That said, a Mithral Chain Shirt and Mithral Dastanas would be cheaper and better.

JaronK

[The_Snark]

All purposes except proficiency, I'm pretty sure. It's still a breastplate; if you don't know how to wear one, it doesn't seem like it would matter that it's lighter.

[ocato]

Well, the whole thing about proficiency with armor is being acustomed to it's weight and movement restrictions and working with/around them.

So if the restrictions and weight were altered to resemble a type of armor you already know how to wear... wouldn't you be able to do it?

[Talya]

There is no "breastplate proficiency." There's no "full plate proficiency." There's no "leather proficiency." The proficiencies are for light, medium and heavy armor. Whatever the armor is, that's the proficiency you need to use it. Barbarians can wear mithral full plate. Rangers can wear a mithral breastplate.

[Townopolis]

All I know is that the picture of Soveliss in the PHBII has him wearing a breastplate, and I don't know a ranger in the world who would fight in anything but light armor.

Also, rangers aren't proficient in medium armor.

[the_tick_rules]

it would. i've said it before but in my opinion mithril breastplate is the best base armor in the game, except for like arcane casters, and monks obviously.

[The_Snark]

Wearing a breastplate's different from wearing chainmail or leather, though. It's still stiffer and more confining than what you're used to, even if it weighs about the same.

The categories are divided pretty neatly; light armors are almost like clothing that provides some protection. Medium armor usually covers your chest pretty solidly, and heavy armor is full-body or close to it. The chain shirt is the only one that doesn't fit into these categories well.

As for rules support, here's the exact wording:

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

Meaning you can fly in a mithral breastplate, or use evasion, and it doesn't slow your movement. Nowhere does it mention changing the proficiency needed.

[Bears With Lasers]

Meh. Mithral Breastplate has too much dex for low-dex types, and has too little dex for high-dex types.

[Talya]

As for rules support, here's the exact wording:
Nowhere does it mention changing the proficiency needed.

"Other purposes." That's pretty inclusive. As a matter of fact, without specifying which "other purposes," it means ALL other purposes.

[The_Snark]

It's vague, yeah, but I think they probably meant movement-related purposes (flight, evasion, armored casting). I can't see that it affects the game all that much either way, though.

[Talya]

And for the record, that's not always a bonus. Get the "Fortified" enchantment on it, and you're only receiving the advantage of the lighter class of armor.

[Bears With Lasers]

Buh? Any kind of armor can have Light, Moderate, or Heavy Fortification. Bucklers can have it. It has nothing to do with the armor, it's a magical effect.

[Talya]

Buh? Any kind of armor can have Light, Moderate, or Heavy Fortification. Bucklers can have it. It has nothing to do with the armor, it's a magical effect.

bah. I was going by memory. There are some enchantment effects that work better on heavier armor.

[Roderick_BR]

And what about exotic armor? You need a extra feat to use them. If you make them "medium" or "light", you still need the proficiency. Same thing with regular armors. The penalties are reduced, but how the armor works, i.e., proficiency needed, these doesn't change.

[Tellah]

Is a character proficient with light armor, such as a
rogue, considered to be proficient with mithral breastplate?
What about a character proficient with medium armor,
such as a barbarian—is he considered proficient with
mithral full plate armor?

The description of mithral on page 284 of the Dungeon
Master’s Guide is less precise than it could be in defining how
it interacts with armor proficiency rules. The simplest answer—
and the one that the Sage expects most players and DMs use—
is that mithral armor is treated as one category lighter for all
purposes, including proficiency. This isn’t exactly what the
Dungeon Master’s Guide says, but it’s a reasonable
interpretation of the intent of the rule (and it’s supported by a
number of precedents, including the descriptions of various
specific mithral armors described on page 220 of the Dungeon
Master’s Guide and a variety of NPC stat blocks).

Thus, a ranger or rogue could wear a mithral breastplate
without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as
light armor), and each could use any ability dependent on
wearing light or no armor (such as evasion or the ranger’s
combat style). A barbarian could wear mithral full plate armor
without suffering a nonproficiency penalty (since it’s treated as
medium armor), and he could use any ability dependent on
wearing medium or lighter armor (such as fast movement).

The same would be true of any other special material that
uses the same or similar language as mithral (such as darkleaf,
on page 120 of the EBERRON Campaign Setting).

This is among the most common questions asked on D&D message boards. Clearly, the FAQ doesn't categorically rule that a mithral breastplate is light, but it does suggest that as the preferred interpretation. I'm sorry there isn't a more solid answer.

[ZeroNumerous]

Look at it this way. If you're only interested in a Dread Necro who's wearing Breastplate.. Mithral Feycrafted Breastplate. Guess what? Proficiency no longer matters. Why? From the SRD:

Nonproficient with Armor Worn

A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.

Well, a Feycrafted Mithral Breastplate has a grand total of +0 ACP. Even if you aren't proficient with medium armor, it no longer affects you.

[Felius]

Where feycrafted is from?

[MeklorIlavator]

DMG 2, in the section about new ways to enhance armor.

[Tyger]

Look at it this way. If you're only interested in a Dread Necro who's wearing Breastplate.. Mithral Feycrafted Breastplate. Guess what? Proficiency no longer matters. Why? From the SRD:

Well, a Feycrafted Mithral Breastplate has a grand total of +0 ACP. Even if you aren't proficient with medium armor, it no longer affects you.

Except of course that the issue isn't the ACP its the Arcane Spell Failure. Which would still be at 10% with Mithril Feycrafted Breastplates.

[MeklorIlavator]

Except of course that the issue isn't the ACP its the Arcane Spell Failure. Which would still be at 10% with Mithril Feycrafted Breastplates.

Can't they freely cast in light armor? Mithral specifically states that it reduces size category for spellcasting.

[Tellah]

Can't they freely cast in light armor? Mithral specifically states that it reduces size category for spellcasting.

Not quite:

Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon’s size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)

Weapons or armors fashioned from mithral are always masterwork items as well; the masterwork cost is included in the prices given below.

Mithral has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 15.
Type of Mithral Item Item Cost Modifier
Light armor +1,000 gp
Medium armor +4,000 gp
Heavy armor +9,000 gp
Shield +1,000 gp
Other items +500 gp/lb.

It doesn't specifically reduce it one category for spellcasting purposes, but rather for "movement and other limitations." As I noted before, the FAQ suggests that you interpret it to include proficiencies, but the FAQ doesn't address Armored Mage or issues involving spellcasting. Much as I hate to say it, this is a question to be asked of DMs, as the rules are essentially silent on this point.

[Khoran]

Not quite:



It doesn't specifically reduce it one category for spellcasting purposes, but rather for "movement and other limitations." As I noted before, the FAQ suggests that you interpret it to include proficiencies, but the FAQ doesn't address Armored Mage or issues involving spellcasting. Much as I hate to say it, this is a question to be asked of DMs, as the rules are essentially silent on this point.

Actually, Races of The Wild clarifies this. It says that a Mithril Breastplate is Light Armor in the Equipment section, rather then Medium.

[Tellah]

Actually, Races of The Wild clarifies this. It says that a Mithril Breastplate is Light Armor in the Equipment section, rather then Medium.

Whoa, good find, Khoran! Problem solved.

[the_tick_rules]

there's also some +1 enchantment from exalted deeds that reduces spell failure even more, stack that with mithril and if it can stack with this feycraft that's some serious reduction.

[Roderick_BR]

If the FAQ and some RAW books says so, then it's alright, I guess.

[Khoran]

there's also some +1 enchantment from exalted deeds that reduces spell failure even more, stack that with mithril and if it can stack with this feycraft that's some serious reduction.

Yup, Twilight. It's mentioned again in both the Magic Item Compendium and PHB II under the Duskblade section (Though I feel it's misplaced there.)

[Matthew]

Actually, Races of The Wild clarifies this. It says that a Mithril Breastplate is Light Armor in the Equipment section, rather then Medium.

Whoa, good find, Khoran! Problem solved.

Indeed. Looks like the RAW are following the FAQ in this instance.