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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aotrs Commander's Avatar

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    Default Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    A noncaster combatant with an emphasis on finding opponents, following them and endurance.

    I originally posted up this class on the WotC boards (so any of you familiar with it there will find nothing new at current!), where it has gone through the wringer. So, I thought that now I would share it over here, as it is pretty much in it's final form. Consider it a gift to the Playground or something...

    As it stands, Tracker is officially at 'Ready to Play' status (meaning that I envision only having to make minor tweaks - if any - due to playtesting).

    So, I hope that this is of some interest or use to some of you! Feedback is welcomed, as always!



    Some design notes, ebfore we get to the crux: The Tracker is designed to fill in as a noncasting Ranger(ish) substitute (i.e., someone who can fight, Track and do outdoors-stuff); the original need was for a replacement for a noncasting Ranger for a world where at times, magic is uncommon and so Rangers were even less so.

    Balance Note:
    Tracker is primarily a combat class, with tracking on top. In addition, this class is balanced with an eye towards Tome of Battle-level combatants, not core melee classes; so it will appear 'better' than the Core Fighter (since the Core Fighter is widely considered a weak class, and doubly so since ToB came out). (I should note that I have modified the Fighter to bring it more into line with the general power level too!)


    TRACKER


    "You can run...but you'll only die tired!"1
    A Tracker can follow a target through any environment, tirelessly following them until the target has nowhere left to go. It is said when a Tracker starts on you trail, there is nowhere far enough away to run where they can't find you...
    The Tracker’s skills are concentrated into finding, tracking and hiding from their targets, be they enemy, law-breaker or beast. They are just as at home in a forest, desert, city or other environment. Trackers are also competant combatants in their own right.
    They are often employed as reconnaissance in military forces; others find employment as expert beast hunters or even bounty hunters.
    Trackers in tribal culture are often hunters (of either food or foe). In more 'civilised' lands, Trackers are often encountered in military forces as reconnaissance, pathfinders or in behind-the-lines operations. In urban areas, trackers are often found in the city watches or as freelance individuals2.
    Many Trackers, regardless of background find that bounty hunting comes easily to their natural talents.
    The Orc scout encountered by Frodo and Sam in Mordor could be one example of a Tracker, as could a character in a 'private detective' role. (As pictured above3)
    Game Rule Information:
    Abilities: Dexterity is important for both optimising the lighter armour the Trackers wear and many Tracker skills realted to it. Strength and Constitution are important for combat. Wisdom is also a good choice, as Trackers have many skills which are dependant on it.
    Races: Any. Any race or type can turn their hand to this pursuit4.
    Alignment: Any. Trackers may be of any alignment.
    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artists (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, Dungeoneering, Geography, Local, Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Cha), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex)
    Skill Points at 1st level: (6+Int mod) x 4
    Skill Points at each Additional Level: 6+Int mod
    Hit Die: D10
    Code:
     
          Base
          Attack          Fort Reflex Will
    Level Bonus           Save  Save  Save Special
    1st   +1               +2    +2    +0  Quickstep (+5’), Track, Trailspotter, Urban Tracker
    2nd   +2               +3    +3    +0  Endurance, Trapfinding
    3rd   +3               +3    +3    +1  Bonus Feat
    4th   +4               +4    +4    +1  Damage Reduction 1/-
    5th   +5               +4    +4    +1  Swift Tracker (Normal speed), Uncanny Dodge
    6th   +6/+1            +5    +5    +2  Bonus Feat, Quickstep (+10’)
    7th   +7/+2            +5    +5    +2  Steady Stride
    8th   +8/+3            +6    +6    +2  Evasion
    9th   +9/+4            +6    +6    +3  Bonus Feat, Damage Reduction 2/-
    10th  +10/+5           +7    +7    +3  Master Tracker, Swift Tracker (Any speed)
    11th  +11/+6/+1        +7    +7    +3  Improved Uncanny Dodge, Quickstep (+15’)
    12th  +12/+7/+2        +8    +8    +4  Bonus Feat, Greater Endurance
    13th  +13/+8/+3        +8    +8    +4  Camouflage
    14th  +14/+9/+4        +9    +9    +4  Damage Reduction 3/-
    15th  +15/+10/+5       +9    +9    +5  Bonus Feat
    16th  +16/+11/+6/+1    +10   +10   +5  Quickstep (+20’)
    17th  +17/+12/+7/+2    +10   +10   +5  Hide in Plain Sight
    18th  +18/+13/+8/+3    +11   +11   +6  Bonus Feat
    19th  +19/+14/+9/+4    +11   +11   +6  Damage Reduction 4/-
    20th  +20/+15/+10/+5   +12   +12   +6  Endless Pursuit
    Class Features
    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A Tracker is proficient with all simple and all martial weapons, light armour and shields (except tower shields).
    Quickstep (Ex): A Tracker gains a +5’ bonus to speed (for all movement modes). At 6th level, and every 5 levels theafter, this bonus rises by +5’.
    Track: A Tracker gains Track as a bonus Feat.
    Trailspotter (Ex): A Tracker passing within 5’ of a trail or tracks is permitted a Survival check to detect them as if he was actively searching for them.
    Urban Tracker: A Tracker gains Urban Tracker as a bonus Feat.
    Endurance: A Tracker gains Endurance as a bonus Feat at 2nd level.
    Trapfinding (Ex): At 2nd level, a Tracker’s sharp eye for detail means he can find things most others would miss. A Tracker can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a DC higher than 20.
    Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic or psionic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell or power used to create it.
    If a Tracker has Disable Device, he can use it to disarm magic and psionic traps. Magic and psionic traps generally have a DC of 25 + the level of the spell or power used to create them.
    A Tracker who beats a trap's DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.
    Bonus Feat: At 3rd level and every 3rd level thereafter, a Tracker gains a Bonus Feat, chosen from the Fighter Bonus Feat list (but not those which have Fighter class levels as a prerequisite, e.g. Weapon Specialisation).
    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th level, a Tracker has become so ornery and/or resiliant, he gains Damage Reduction 1/-. At 9th level, and every 5 levels thereafter, the Damage Reduction rises by 1 point.
    Swift Tracker (Ex): At 5th level a Tracker can move at normal speed while following tracks and suffer no penalty; he only takes a –10 penalty when moving at up to twice speed.
    A Tracker may also make a Gather Information check for his Urban Tracking feat every half hour without taking the normal -5 penalty.
    At 10th level, the Tracker takes no penalty to follow tracks at any speed.
    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a Tracker can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
    If a Tracker already has Uncanny Dodge from a different class he automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.
    Steady Stride (Ex): At 7th level, a Tracker can move through any sort of undergrowth, light rubble or other inconveniences at normal speed without taking damage or suffering any impairment. This does not work against enchanted or magically manipulated growth, however. This ability does not let the Tracker move more quickly through terrain that requires Climb or Swim checks to navigate. This ability functions regardless of what type or armour the Tracker is wearing, or what type of load they are carrying.
    Evasion (Ex): At 8th level a Tracker can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Tracker is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Tracker does not gain the benefit of Evasion.
    Master Tracker (Ex): At 10th level, a Tracker becomes sufficently practised that he can take 10 on tracking or urban tracking rolls to follow a trail he has already discovered (i.e. after his first check succeeded).
    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Tracker of 11th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This defense denies another character the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more levels of an Uncanny Dodge granting-class than the target does.
    If a character already has Uncanny Dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant Uncanny Dodge stack to determine the minimum class level required to flank the character.
    Greater Endurance (Ex): At 12th level, a Tracker can take 10 on any checks he gains a bonus from from his Endurance feat. The Tracker gets a +4 on saves against effects that cause fatigue or exhaustion.
    Camouflage (Ex): At 13th level, a Tracker can use the Hide skill in any sort of terrain, even if there is no cover or concealment.
    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): At 17th level, a Tracker can hide in terrain even when being observed.
    Endless Pursuit (Su): At 20th level, a Tracker becomes immune to nonlethal damage, fatigue and exhaustion (except that resulting from starvation or thirst). A Tracker requires only half normal rations and can survive by foraging (for himself only or otehrs with this ability) in any environment that is not completely barren and devoid of any kind of water (including water vapour).
    The Tracker needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This ability affects other sleep-equivilent forms (e.g. Elven trance) which also require onlt 25% normal time for a complete rest.
    Once per day, plus once per point of Constitution bonus, the Tracker can spend an Immediate action to do one of the following:

    1) Negate a sucessful Critical Hit as Heavy Fortification (and/or any effect that functions on creatures not immune to critical hits, e.g Sneak Attack) from a single attack.

    2) Roll a new saving throw against any effect with a duration of longer than instantaneous that inflicts a negative status (e.g, Blinded, Entangled, Paralysed) that the Tracker is currently suffering from, with a bonus on the roll equal to the Tracker's Constitution bonus.

    3) Add a +8 to Escape Artist or Grapple Checks made to exit a Grapple until the end of the Tracker's turn.

    Starting Gold: 6D4 x10
    Starting Age: As Ranger.



    1The quote actually come from an unrelated article way back in Dragon 198, but it was such an awesome one it stuck with me until this very day!
    2Leather Trenchcoat, hard-boiled monologues and having an office with your name painted backwards on the glass door optional.
    3'Cos damned if I could find a picture on a Morder Orc scout!
    4Pun intended.


    (Note, if the picture causes problems, let me know and I'll remove it. As it is, this post is mostly a straight cut-and-paste from the WotC boards (plus all the fiddling I had to to bring the table back, since coping from Notepad doesn't seem to hold the breaks like it does there!))

    Edit: fixed Tireless/Endless Pursuit name, added a title for the balance bit!

    Edit: Added the new stuff to Endless Pursuit.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2007-06-06 at 08:44 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Few things I think need changing.

    Drop the Damage reduction, as it really doesn't seem to fit at all. Getting rugged and Ornrery and resiliant from tracking things and hunting doesn't make much sense really.

    And the Taking 10 on checks from the Skills from Endurance doesn't sound right either. So I say drop that.

    Also the 2 hour sleep thing, give them a limit to how long they can do that. I say 1 week without feeling effects of 2 hours a night.

    Right now thats all I have for you, but good Job.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    agree with Corncracker
    My Current Works


    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Corncracker
    Few things I think need changing.

    Drop the Damage reduction, as it really doesn't seem to fit at all. Getting rugged and Ornrery and resiliant from tracking things and hunting doesn't make much sense really.

    And the Taking 10 on checks from the Skills from Endurance doesn't sound right either. So I say drop that.
    Okay, I'll address both those points:

    Remember that this is primarily a sturdy outdoor-type combatant class, and tracking is not the end all and be all of the class (merely a convienent tag; originally, the class was titled Scout before Complete Adventurer came out!) Tracking is what it does on top of hitting stuff.

    Think of, say, Aragorn and the Rangers of Middle-Earth, who don't really fit the classic D&D Ranger mold. Or Native American scouts/trackers'guides. Or the !Kung tribe of Nambia, who hunt by chasing their prey until it dies of exhaustion. That's where the rugged bit came from. (Especially the last example!) Plus, what PI in fiction can you think of that wasn't ornery and rugged? (Of course, you might know more than me - I'm hardly an expert, but certainly the steriotypial private eye is fairly rugged, no?) Heck, Batman could be modelled as a Tracker.

    (Actually, now that I say that, that actually would work quite well!)

    Flavour reasons aside, it's also important for mechanical reasons, in that it helps the Tracker's primary role of combat. Without it - as was pointed out early on at WotC - it doesn't really do much except follow stuff. A good class needs to be able to have fairly mutable flavour off it's mechanics. Besides, Barbarians get slight better DR, and you don't get more resilient from getting angry either. (Unless you're the Hulk, maybe...) I just applied the same reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corncracker
    Also the 2 hour sleep thing, give them a limit to how long they can do that. I say 1 week without feeling effects of 2 hours a night.

    Right now thats all I have for you, but good Job.
    May I ask why? The advantage isn't game breaking. It's useful, yes, but think of it in context. In a party, it mainly means that you can be used on watch more. A lone Tracker can move overland much faster, yes, but that's not going to break the game much. By this point, even in a fairly low magic environment, you're quite likely to have access to teleportation, so it renders that point less useful.

    At level 20, the characters are already superhuman. By this point, Monks and Dread Necromancers have even stopped being human; pure spell casters and manifesters can alter reality at will, Druids can turn into fire three times per day (or maybe Titanium...) and Monks can fall form any height and not get hurt, provided there's tree branch or wall nearby. Being able to sleep less time doesn't really come in the same category.

    It doesn't have any abuses with regard to spell casting, as it's a 20th level ability. By the time you get Epic Tracker 20/caster x, any semblance of game balance has ceased to apply anyway.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Okay, I'll address both those points:

    Remember that this is primarily a sturdy outdoor-type combatant class, and tracking is not the end all and be all of the class (merely a convienent tag; originally, the class was titled Scout before Complete Adventurer came out!) Tracking is what it does on top of hitting stuff.

    Think of, say, Aragorn and the Rangers of Middle-Earth, who don't really fit the classic D&D Ranger mold. Or Native American scouts/trackers'guides. Or the !Kung tribe of Nambia, who hunt by chasing their prey until it dies of exhaustion. That's where the rugged bit came from. (Especially the last example!) Plus, what PI in fiction can you think of that wasn't ornery and rugged? (Of course, you might know more than me - I'm hardly an expert, but certainly the steriotypial private eye is fairly rugged, no?) Heck, Batman could be modelled as a Tracker.

    (Actually, now that I say that, that actually would work quite well!)

    Flavour reasons aside, it's also important for mechanical reasons, in that it helps the Tracker's primary role of combat. Without it - as was pointed out early on at WotC - it doesn't really do much except follow stuff. A good class needs to be able to have fairly mutable flavour off it's mechanics. Besides, Barbarians get slight better DR, and you don't get more resilient from getting angry either. (Unless you're the Hulk, maybe...) I just applied the same reasoning.



    May I ask why? The advantage isn't game breaking. It's useful, yes, but think of it in context. In a party, it mainly means that you can be used on watch more. A lone Tracker can move overland much faster, yes, but that's not going to break the game much. By this point, even in a fairly low magic environment, you're quite likely to have access to teleportation, so it renders that point less useful.

    At level 20, the characters are already superhuman. By this point, Monks and Dread Necromancers have even stopped being human; pure spell casters and manifesters can alter reality at will, Druids can turn into fire three times per day (or maybe Titanium...) and Monks can fall form any height and not get hurt, provided there's tree branch or wall nearby. Being able to sleep less time doesn't really come in the same category.

    It doesn't have any abuses with regard to spell casting, as it's a 20th level ability. By the time you get Epic Tracker 20/caster x, any semblance of game balance has ceased to apply anyway.
    I'm aware Tracking isn't all they can do. However Damage reduction doesn't quite Fit it. A class based around tracking would have survival abilities, possibly some disease immunity, but Damage reduction doesn't really fit in. And the thing with sleeping. It wouldn't make sense that he always only needs 2 hours a night because he isn't a magical class, he doesn't use all these super natural powers, so he would still be subject to basic needs of his race. It makes far more sense for him to be able to forcefully resist those needs for a time, however its going to catch up to him one way or another.

    And even without Damage reduction, he has martial weapons and a good Base attack bonus. While not great without abilities, he does get the bonus feats that come off a fighters bonus feat list that can be used. Really the reasons you gave are stretching to get Damage reduction.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Corncracker
    I'm aware Tracking isn't all they can do. However Damage reduction doesn't quite Fit it. A class based around tracking would have survival abilities, possibly some disease immunity, but Damage reduction doesn't really fit in. And the thing with sleeping. It wouldn't make sense that he always only needs 2 hours a night because he isn't a magical class, he doesn't use all these super natural powers, so he would still be subject to basic needs of his race. It makes far more sense for him to be able to forcefully resist those needs for a time, however its going to catch up to him one way or another.

    And even without Damage reduction, he has martial weapons and a good Base attack bonus. While not great without abilities, he does get the bonus feats that come off a fighters bonus feat list that can be used. Really the reasons you gave are stretching to get Damage reduction.
    Note that Endless Pursuit is an Su ability, not Ex (it's the only one the Tracker has got, admittedly). So, actually, it is partly magical. (I didn't think it was sensible for an Ex ability, either.) Compared to becoming a Lich or Outsider - or the Knight's ability to not die despite taking infinity damage for more than a minute without magic, I don't think it's pushing credibility very far!



    Flavour is mutable. (Case in point, there is an excellent thread over at WotC where they build all the characters from Naruto using the existing psionics rules.)

    Damage Reduction can be flavoured whatever way you like. It can mean anything from instant healing to literal hardening of the skin or anything else.

    A legitimate interpretation of hit points is not just damage sustained, but a measure of combat fatigue; as you narrowly dodge blows, you slowly get more and more tired. This is exactly what WotC have said about the latest version of Star Wars (the Saga Edition) when they explained why they'd gone back to hit points instead of Vitality/Wounds.

    You can make a good case for interpreting the Crusader's healing as allowing the Crusader's allies to shrug off the effects of their injuries, inspired by his actions, rather than the wounds closing up (especially since they are all Ex maneouvers). (I must attribute this point to Tempest Stormwind from the WotC boards.)

    I see the Tracker's DR in much the same fashion. It's not that they are physically resistant to the damage, it's just they they are so damn hard that they just shrug off the pain, so the damage doesn't affect them as much. (You can make exactly the same claims about a Barbarian's - or just as viably say he's so hard his skin actually bonuces the blows off.) And at higher levels, you can attribute some of it to the lessening of the effects of fatigue (through their fatigue-retardant class features), meaning that they don't use up so much effort dodging the blows (etc). In the end, hit points and the effects that associate with them are very abstract, so you can conditionally falvour them pretty much as you like.

    Hopefully that covers the 'why DR'! Now I shall attempt to explain the 'why hardy in the first place' bit!

    Part of the tracker's (generic) schtick is they just keep coming and coming. It doesn't matter where you run, or how far, the Tracker will come after you, will find you and will arrest/kill/capture/whatever you; rain or shine, lava or lightning. They just Don't. Give. Up. Ever. Sort of like a biological Terminator at top level. And so that is where the 'tough as crap' stuff comes in. They are determined. Or stubborn. Or driven by some need for vengeance. Or just willfully ignorant. (Actually, I could see a cheerful, happy-go-lucky Tracker who is resistant to bad things simply because he or she refuses to accept they happen!) Whatever. Ultimately, the Tracker should be flexible enough to manage a wide range of interpretations of it's mechanical aspects.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    I'm just saying for the Tracker, DR seems a bit odd. Its not exactly a class built around that, its a hunter Class. At least thats what it would seem like. Rather than DR, And ability more similar to Rangers Favored enemy would seem in line to help out in a fight. The DR just seems out of place for the Class, and that it was thrown in simply to make them more battle effective. Sure you can interpret the words like that, but it still doesn't seem to fit in right.

    And the Endurance thing, it being the only MAgic like ability just seems odd. Up until then the class abilities have been based around incredible skill, obtained through sweat and blood hard work. And suddenly they are aided by magic? That just doesn't sit right.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Corncracker
    I'm just saying for the Tracker, DR seems a bit odd. Its not exactly a class built around that, its a hunter Class. At least thats what it would seem like. Rather than DR, And ability more similar to Rangers Favored enemy would seem in line to help out in a fight. The DR just seems out of place for the Class, and that it was thrown in simply to make them more battle effective. Sure you can interpret the words like that, but it still doesn't seem to fit in right.

    And the Endurance thing, it being the only MAgic like ability just seems odd. Up until then the class abilities have been based around incredible skill, obtained through sweat and blood hard work. And suddenly they are aided by magic? That just doesn't sit right.
    I think a Favoured Enemy type ability (either a direct port from Ranger and thus stealing one their major selling points, or a Mark ability like the Bloodhound has) would narrow the Tracker's focus too much. That sort of bonus is very situationally dependant (especially for Mark). I'm aiming not to shoehorn it into one job (tracking people), since that doesn't come up so hugely often that that's all the class is good at.

    I aimed for the Tracker to a hardy, resiliant outdoorsman. They are not supposed to be much less tough than Barbarians. It can be a hunter, but it can be other things as well. You would find Trackers in primative tribes right alongside Barbarians even when you might not find more 'civilised' fighters. There they'd use their skills to track game and hunt. (Though granted, in that instance, they probably wouldn't have Gather Information!) But you'd find them using the same set of skills in different ways elsewhere (like the hard-bitten citywatchman who spends his time on the streets or the tough bounty hunter).

    'Crap-tough outdoorsguy who can track' makes no less sense to me as a concept than 'crap-tough guy who goes berserk' or 'guy who kills specific types of creatures and always uses a bow or two-weapons who can track'. (Maybe slighty more in the latter case).

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    All I'm saying is the DR just doesn't sit right. And making this class for something other than tracking? With the exception of Damage reduction, virtually everything he gets is related to tracking something. Unless thats what your doing, the vast majority of his stuff is uselsess, save teh Bonus feats and hiding abilities. And for effective means as a repacement to CR, try using his observing obilities.

    Observing a group of enemies for so long, he gains bonus's to fighting that group. It seems to fit the overal theme much more than DR.

    If you want to make him be effective outside of tracking, you should seriously revamp his abilities, as thats what they all focus on.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    I personally like the idea of giving the tracker damage reduction 1 or 2 so that it is immune to certain hostile environments. The exact height is flavourwise not that important to me.

    My problem is that the tracker is basically just a better ranger:
    Better HD, DR, more attractive class skills, Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Faster Movement, 6 bonus feats and lots of tracking stuff

    Compared to non spellcasting ranger variant:
    bad animal companion, wild empathy, restrictive combat style, favoured enemies, 1/day: +4 Con, 1/day Cure Poison, 1/day Freedom of movement

    And do not get me started on how a fighter looks compared to this boy.

    So many bonus feats are a big present. They allow very powerfull combinations. And you are not tied to some lame fighting style, which does not pay off.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Teilos
    I personally like the idea of giving the tracker damage reduction 1 or 2 so that it is immune to certain hostile environments. The exact height is flavourwise not that important to me.

    My problem is that the tracker is basically just a better ranger:
    Better HD, DR, more attractive class skills, Trapfinding, Uncanny Dodge, Faster Movement, 6 bonus feats and lots of tracking stuff

    Compared to non spellcasting ranger variant:
    bad animal companion, wild empathy, restrictive combat style, favoured enemies, 1/day: +4 Con, 1/day Cure Poison, 1/day Freedom of movement

    And do not get me started on how a fighter looks compared to this boy.

    So many bonus feats are a big present. They allow very powerfull combinations. And you are not tied to some lame fighting style, which does not pay off.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence! Now, to address your other concerns:

    As I said, the Fighter is a very poor class to start with. (Compare Fighter to Warblade, for example.) My fix for it (which is considered 'not good enough' by the experts, but is suitable to my requirements) was to give them a feat at every odd level (starting at 3rd) that could be any type of feat; plus Fighter were given some expanded utility out of some selected feats. This bit had been fairly heavily hammered, since I'm writing a campaign that has a lot of mid-high level fighters, and though I've not run the game yet, they look much more promising in theory! (Basically, it means they can have 2-3 tricks without loosing any numerical advantages.)

    Compared to say, a Warblade or Crusader, the Tracker isn't especially powerful (and those are the levels of balance I'm trying to aim towards). It's probably edging towards Barbarian in terms of power, but with perhaps and edge in adaptability rather than raw damage.

    I don't intend to use the noncasting Ranger variant, since it is dire. It's compares very poorly with a regular Ranger. Heck, it compares unfavourably with the Core-only Fighter! The loss of four levels of spells for 10' of speed and three 1/day Spell Like Abilities? What? I think not! Plus, I thought that noncasting variants that had spell-like abilities kind of defeated the whole point in the first place. It seemed like those variants had been thrown in without much actual thought behind it. (Actually, there's quite a bit in CW that's woefully under-strength; (in decreasing levels of usefulness) Hexblade, Swashbuckler and especially CW Samurai, I'm looking at you! Though arguably as it was the first 3.5 splatbook, they can be forgiven somewhat.)

    A lot of the Ranger's power nowadays recides in the spells, which outside Core have grown massively and contain a heck of a lot more useful spells(examples include Blades of Fire, Arrowmind and Arrow Storm). If I were to use a noncasting Ranger variant, there is the Sublime Way Ranger variant of the WotC, which in my opinion is a much better exchange than the CW variant. (Incidently, I call the noncasting Paladin variant I use 'Crusader!')

    I also tend to replace Animal Companion with Distracting Attack from PHB II, which I find is vastly more useful, since not every Ranger wants or needs a pet.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Ok, compared to those power levels, I have no problems. If you forget about the core non fighting classes then this is just fine.

    My next campaign will be without ToB and low magic. So I used the wrong measures.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    I like it. Don't see anything even slightly upsetting the balance of the game. If anything, I'd move that level 20 ability down 6 or 8 levels. I mean, it's a nice flavorful cap to the class, but compared to what level 20 full casters are flinging around? What the Master of Many Forms is turning into?

    You would be entirely justified in getting that ability at 10th level. It's not like the wizard isn't casting rope trick every night, anyway.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tor the Fallen
    I like it. Don't see anything even slightly upsetting the balance of the game.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tor the Fallen
    If anything, I'd move that level 20 ability down 6 or 8 levels. I mean, it's a nice flavorful cap to the class, but compared to what level 20 full casters are flinging around? What the Master of Many Forms is turning into?

    You would be entirely justified in getting that ability at 10th level. It's not like the wizard isn't casting rope trick every night, anyway.
    Yeah, it is more flavour than mechanics, that one. I left it so high, since I felt it did need to be Su, and I was trying to keep Su to a minimum. But maybe a second capstone wouldn't go amiss. Suggestions?

    Edit: How come nobody on either board noticed that the capstone is listed as Tireless Pursuit in the class table and Endless in the abilities? I'll just go fix that!

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Yeah, Endless Pursuit should be moved down. Basically, you gain a bunch of abilities that expand the use of the endurance feat, and once you get to level 20, they're all effectively useless. "You can take ten" followed by "it doesn't matter". Ehhh, not so good. It's a solid melee class (2 good saves, full BAB, a little DR, a few feats), the way PH melee classes go, which isn't saying a whole lot. The other abilities there strike me as flavorful, but ultimately "so what?" I think you should add a few other abilities that give the Tracker a little more stand up ability. Energy resistance, the ability to mitigate harsh environments- heat, cold, dessication, culminating with abilities to cope with perilous planar features. Perhaps take a look at the Horizon Walker for some ideas.

    Planar may not be the flavor you're going for, but it gives the class a little more oomph besides running around in forests on the Prime, and besides, at high levels, what party isn't foraying into the gray wastes of hades in search of a soul with answers, or attempting to recover an artifact from the abyssal clutches of some foul demon prince?
    Last edited by Tor the Fallen; 2007-04-30 at 09:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    I thought for a second capstone would be to give it something like fortification? It could go along the fluff as that as a tracker he's been through a lot more fights... dunno really, I would take this over DR...

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Ooh, light fortification would be cool.

    Give it some amount of freedom of movement at higher levels. Maybe 1 round per level of tracker per day, used anyway he wishes.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Good thoughts...

    I like the fortification idea. I think either a continuous light fortification ability, or maybe an ability to negate a critical hit as some number of times per day. Say, like twice/day (or rather 1/ten tracker levels) or maybe as an immediate action 3+Con bonus times/day? Which do you think is better.

    I just had another thought. Raher than add elemental resistances (which I actually had at once point), how about an (Ex) self-healing ability, a bit like the Crusader's strike. At the moment I'm think a minute activation time (so not an in-combat ability) but one that heals (Tracker level+Con bonus) times (say) 5 once per day. This ability (I'm thinking Second Wind) would represent the Trackr taking a moment to get his breath back and shrug off the worst effects of his injuries. I'd set it about 18th, I think.

    I think that's more in keeping than Freedom of Movement, since I'm trying to not give the Tracker any spell-like abilities.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I think that's more in keeping than Freedom of Movement, since I'm trying to not give the Tracker any spell-like abilities.
    The cleric Travel domain has it as (Su), though you could even give it as (Ex). Give it the same properties as freedom of movement. It makes sense that a high level tracker would be following high level characters or beasties with high CR, and would have to traverse terrain modified with magic.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    I haven't forgotten this, by the by...I'm still thinking about it (I've got other projects I'm sorting out!)

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quickstep is OVERPOWERED, ALL movment types? That encompasses 5-fot steps. I would dip this class just for that ability.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Moogle View Post
    Quickstep is OVERPOWERED, ALL movment types? That encompasses 5-fot steps. I would dip this class just for that ability.
    No, by all 'movement types', it means 'movement modes' (a slight mistype, I fear); all types of speeds (i.e. land speed, fly speed, swim speed, burrow speed); see the MM glossary for the definition of movement modes. A 5-foot step is a type of move action, not a movement mode.

    That said, I'll rephrase that line to be clearer when I do the next update.


    Edit: I could almost just leave it a speed bonus, since for example, checking the Monk's Fast Movement or Dash, they apply to speed as opposed to the Barbarian's (which is to land speed). I just mentioned it explicitly so it would be clear if affected speeds other than land.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2007-05-25 at 09:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Tracker...No where to hide [Base Class]

    Okay, I've added a revision to Endless Pursuit; the Tracker can now 1+Con mod times per day negate crits, reroll some saves and gaina bonus to get out of grapples!

    Enough? Too much? Should I add Second Wind, or is it really redundant by this point?

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