Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

[Magikeeper]

I've also been attempting to use it, but my 5E group's going through a bout of of real-life-interruptus disease. I'll try to keep you posted.

Thanks! :D

Real-Life-Interruptus is pretty common in the RP community, yep.

[Faxn]

I read over the class and I'm leaving my notes here. I included the text of the subjects being commented on for quick reference and historical context.
The comments are obviously suggestions even though I may have worded some of them too strongly. Overall I think it's a great improvement over the original and a very fun looking class. Good Job.

I haven't gotten to playtest it yet, and I might not get to anytime soon. This has re-motivated me to try to get a group together though.

General changes
"Using this ability is tiring – after using it you must complete a short or long rest before being able to use it again. You may apply this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you may use the granted ability before needing to take a short or long rest by one."

I would take out all of this templating and replace it with a class wide single store of 'effort' similar to ki points. This makes the class somewhat simpler to keep track of in play, which matters since the form points are already quite a lot to keep track of compared to most 5e non-casters.
A cool way to do it might me to have these things powered by burning off form points(or active features), making them unusable until next rest. Having to burn off your puppet to block an attack with Efficient reactions seems like a cool tactical decision, but such a setup might be hard to explain and severely hamper an ozodrin's endurance.

Trait Tier Progression

As it is you get nothing for about four levels then a whole pile of new abilities. It might be smoother in play to stagger the tier increases so you get some new tiers of Traits every other level. This would give players more to time to get used to having these abilities, and lets them look forward to leveling more often than once every four.

2fp – Devouring Glare

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As an action, you can attempt to tear away and consume bits and pieces of a foe you can see within 60’, the victim’s essence seemingly flowing into one or more of your eyes. This ability deals 1d6 + your charisma modifier force damage unless the target succeeds on a constitution saving throw. You regain hit points equal to half the damage dealt this way (rounded down). Every 10 hit points regained this way (or would be, if you cannot regain any more hp) provides as much nourishment as a pound of food and a glass of water. The ability granted by this alteration is considered to be a magical effect.

Leave the devouring niche for the mouths. Being able to hang back and bite someone and heal yourself with a glare is too nonsensical even for an ozodrin. It's okay it exists, but as it is; it sees to be the core power for an eye ozodrin's offense and it doesn't seem fit for that flavor-wise.
Kerleth also brought up concerns with heal on damage abilities, and I agree. At least ranged heal on damage shouldn't be one of the first abilities you get.
Consider replacing this with eyebeams based heavily after the Eldritch Blast cantrip. Eyebeams might not fit flavor though. I'm not sure.
Alternately you could just leave damage out of eyes and focus on it's role as a set of debuff abilities.

1fp – Proclaiming Gaze

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You may telepathically communicate with any creature within 120’ that you can see. This does not give you the ability to comprehend languages you do not know, but images and the like can also be communicated this way.

Telepathy for monsters usually breaks language barriers allowing clear communication with anything that has a language. The idea it that pure concepts are being sent across so language is unnessary. The line of sight requirement already makes this weaker than telepathy.
Ambigous warning - Specify that the creature contacted can respond telepathically, or that it can't. You seem to intend that it can.
At least elaborate on "images and the like". something like "Images, Feelings and Vague Concepts". This ability shouldn't be nerfed by misunderstanding. This would leave it up to the GM wether to just treat it like sharing a language or force stream on nouns communication. Either way it's about as useful.

1fp - Traveling Tentacles

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You may, as an action, flow through one of your tentacles and emerge from the other end, changing your location to any point within the tentacle’s reach. Using this ability is tiring – after using it you must complete a short or long rest before being able to use it again. You may apply this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you may use the granted ability before needing to take a short or long rest by one.
You may also sacrifice 5’ of your Strange Movement class feature per 20’ traveled this way to use this ability without it counting against the number of times you can use it before needing to rest.

Are opponents supposed to get opportunity attacks against this? As is they do. Either Way makes about as much sense in flavor, but spending an action to move 20' should offer some benefit. Currently It's almost only useful when used with tentacles on detached parts.

2fp - Coiling Tentacles

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Your tentacles excel at maintaining their grasp, even when resisted by magical forces. Any creature that attempts to leave your grasp through magical means must make a charisma saving throw. If they fail they take 2d8 bludgeoning damage and their ability has no effect. If they succeed, the ability works normally except that you know the direction, but not distance, they traveled (I.E., as though they had physically tugged themselves free of your grip). If they traveled to another plane you know they did so but do not learn which one. This sensation is similar to feeling someone pull away from you. This is not a divination effect.

I don't like this. Freedom of movement and teleport are supposed to be hard counters to grapple. Putting an extra obstacle on these seems wrong. When fighting a foe with freedom of movement or plentiful teleports you should have to figure out other ways of dealing with him/her/it besides being an overspecialized grappler. Pulling out a narrow use hard-counter softener like this is just bad taste.

1fp - Regenerative Flesh

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Whenever you eat a pound of food, or benefit from an effect that counts as a pound of food for the purposes of avoiding starvation, you may choose to regain 5 hp instead of gaining any sustenance from the meal.

Strength is a good stat for ozodrin and you don't need armor or weapons, so fill your pack with trail mix and gouge yourself every short rest. With filtering flesh[wood] and a nice mouth you could just go ahead and start eating trees to heal. Is this the intended use and power level? Probably needs play test info before it can really be judged, but it's something to examine further. It's really cool. I hope it's keepable.

3fp – Swallow

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You may, once per turn as an action, make a bite attack against a large sized or smaller target you are grappling (this may involve unhinging your jaw and the like). If the target is your size or larger you are disadvantaged on the attack roll. If the attack hits, the target is also swallowed, and the grapple ends. While swallowed, the target is blinded and restrained, it has total cover against attacks and other effects outside of you, and it takes 3d6 acid damage at the start of each of the your turns. If you take 20 damage or more on a single turn from swallowed creatures, you must succeed on a DC 18 Constitution saving throw at the end of that turn or regurgitate all creatures you have swallowed, which fall prone in a space within 10 feet of you. You can also choose to regurgitate all swallowed creatures as a bonus action. If you die, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by you and can escape from your corpse by using 15 feet of movement, exiting prone. If you change forms to one that does not benefit from this alteration any creatures you have swallowed are immediately regurgitated. If you teleport, any creatures you have swallowed remain in your stomach.

"large sized or smaller" If an ozodrin player really, really wants to swallow a titan I say let them. Do something to remove or soften this hard cap on swallowed creature size. Perhaps just remove it and let the inherent problems with grappling something four times your size be the issue.

3fp – True Spawn (Requires Independent Spawn, Barrier Puppets, and Collapsing Puppets)

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The special puppets created by your Advance Puppet alteration, that have their own HP total, become separate creatures after being able to take their own actions for one consecutive week. You have no control over these creatures, who are free-willed aberrations that have your ability scores and any alterations you made to them. You can, however, decide their initial alignment and what initial languages they know (selected from ones you know). The resulting creatures have their own stomachs, and need to eat, drink, and sleep like normal creatures. The resulting creatures live about as long as a human but are infertile. You may choose to have the resulting creatures have lower ability scores than yours, but their intelligence must be at least 3. These free-willed aberration no longer count as puppets, are no longer considered a part of your body, and have souls.

Very interesting, but it's very complicated and out of the cracks come some questions on how exactly to handle this at a table.
When they become separate what happens if you remove the True Spawn feature or the Advanced puppet slot supporting them? Do they drop dead or are they independent enough to exist without your support? The latter allows you to bud off an army trainable and expendable ozolings. The former means reallocating your form points might be a moral dilemma.
If they aren't a part of your body anymore does that mean you can't alter their advanced alterations anymore? If you can't does that mean the points are still tied up? Do they get to have advanced alterations at all?

[Magikeeper]

Thanks for the critique!

Proclaiming Gaze - Yeah, replacing "images and the like" with something more descriptive sounds fine.

Traveling Tentacles - Not supposed to trigger AoOs. You have a point - it has a few other uses but could stand to be rewritten. It's mostly a hold over from 3.5 Ozodrin.

Coiling Tentacles - I haven't played enough 5E to know if high-level grappling is at all viable without something like this. That'd be quite the change from 3.5. I could probably replace this with a more interesting ability, possibly something involving Sinister Image. I'd like more folk to weigh in on this.

Devouring Glare -Less "biting" more.. dissolving and pulling in. A withering sort of gaze. It could also be described as ripping the life out of things, although that sounds more necromantic. I'll think about the description. I think, mechanically, it is interesting and plays nicer with the other class abilities than eye beams would. I also find Eyebeams less fitting the Ozodrin than doom glares.

Swallow - Last line: "You may make this alteration multiple times, increasing the maximum size category you are capable of swallowing by one each time." Max size also effects stomach size.

Regenerative Flesh - Really, if someone is determined to start every battle fresh Devouring Mouths and such would be sufficient. But yeah, that's fine. I've never had an issue with players being able to full-heal outside of combat in 3.5, and 5E seems to be even friendlier to the concept. Why would Filtering Flesh be involved though? It doesn't let you swiftly digest solids or otherwise speed up eating?


True Spawn: Yeah, you're supposed to get the FP back after they are no longer connected to / controlled by you in anyway [b]I mixed up my memories of 3.5 and 5E - I worded the 5E version to make that a non-issue, you arent investing it in a specific spawn. I did add a bit noting they cannot be further modified by your abilities, since they aren't a part of you anymore). And becoming separate creatures is as it sounds - you no longer have any direct influence over them. They are a unique monster the ozodrin pretty much gave birth to. If the puppet had advanced alterations before becoming separate, those would still be there. Whatever abilities the puppet had is what the new creature has. Granted, the combined FP cost of True Spawn + everything it requires is so high that you can't fit many other abilities onto that (which is intentional).

On tiers: It's set up like that because that's how most 5E classes are set up and I didn't feel that rocking the boat was necessary. Familiar form makes it easier to get it accepted, and any system of breaking it down further would require a fair amount of additional complexity anyhow. I'd pretty much have to re-write the system. Also, although this is less true at higher levels, the +1 fp/level does change how many of those new abilities you can reasonably use at the same time.

On "Using this ability is tiring/straining/etc" : Eye has several of these, but most of the others only use it 1-2 times or not at all. Most of the effects are at higher tiers as well. Outside of Eye-centric Ozodrin this is unlikely to really be that complex at all (and even then, it's like being part spellcaster if anything).

As for per-trait solutions, Spike has Shredding Volley / Piercing Rain use the same counter. The eye abilities don't require each other or really build on each other, so the same thing wouldn't work as well for them.


The burning thing, although interesting, would be quite hard to balance. It'd also make the class much more complex than it already is. Complexity is a scarce resource, it really needs to be saved for the most central aspects of a class. If the Ozodrin was woefully underpowered it might need such a meta-fp ability.. but I don't think that is the case.


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It'll probably be a day or so before I make the minor updates / clarifications.

[Magikeeper]

Okay, finally did most of the stuff mentioned in my previous post!


I replaced traveling tentacle with Stretchable Tentacles:

2fp - Stretchable Tentacles
You may, by using your reaction, increase the effective reach of your tentacles/limbs by 10' for one round.This increase works like the benefit from the Long Tentacles alteration, and stacks with that benefit. If you have made the locomotive tendrils alteration, each use of this ability also increases your base walking speed by 10' for one round.

Tell me what you think!

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Although I have not yet replaced it, I have been pondering possible abilities that could be used to replace Coiling Tentacles at Tier IV tentacle. My most recent ideas:

Ideas for replacing Coiling Tentacle (One of the Tier IV tentacle alterations):

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2fp - Synchronizing Tendrils
While grappling or touching another creature, you may choose to have any magical effect that effects that creature effect you as well (For example, if they attempt to teleport away you may choose to be teleported with them). If the effect has a duration, it ends for you as soon as you are no longer touching the creature (even if its duration would normally be longer, for example if you touched a wizard casting Foresight you would lose the benefit as soon as you let go of them).

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2fp - Seed Tendrils
Whenever your tentacles successfully strike a target you may, as a bonus action, have them place 'seeds' on the target the immediately erupt into a mass of tentacles. If the target fails a dexterity saving throw they take 2d6 bludgeoning damage and are restrained for 1 round. If it succeeds on the save, the target’s movement speed is instead halved for 1 round and they take half as much damage.

^
Eh, not sure I like this one.

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2fp - Denying Tendrils
You may, as a reaction, make a tentacle/claw attack against any target you can reach. If the attack is successful, the target takes damage as normal and must make a constitution saving throw. If they fail the saving throw, any action they were performing before being effected by this ability fails (for example, if they were trying to case a spell, and we successfully hit be this ability, the spell would not be cast if they failed their saving throw).

Using this ability is straining - once you've used it twice you cannot use it again until completing a long or short rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, increasing the number of times you may use it before needing to rest by one each time.

^
Not sure how I feel about this one either...

[Faxn]

2fp - Stretchable Tentacles
You may, by using your reaction, increase the effective reach of your tentacles/limbs by 10' for one round.This increase works like the benefit from the Long Tentacles alteration, and stacks with that benefit. If you have made the locomotive tendrils alteration, each use of this ability also increases your base walking speed by 10' for one round.

Tell me what you think!

I don't think that's how you are supposed to use reactions.

A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s.

This use of reaction has no trigger. On top of that, you usually only get one reaction a turn, so if you use this to extend reach, you can't then opportunity attack with your new reach. Perhaps make it not cost and action, be usable at any time and be straining/tiring.

Synchronizing Tendrils: narrow scope but not too narrow. Just the sort of thing an Ozodrin should have in it's extra-dimensional pocket.

Seed Tendrils: I wish I could offer better critique, but I agree with "Eh".

Denying Tendrils: Even worse reaction abuse, turning the reaction into another attack action.

Seed tentacles got me to think of how I would imagine a Ozodrin would infect someone if it could, and I would have the tentacles going in and lurking, instead of erupting immediately. This would make for more of a utility Alteration. It would probably use affliction rules, taking hours or days to set in, and successful infection would give the Ozodrin tremendous power over the victim. Something like being able to inflict damage and disadvantage on all rolls to them as a bonus action(no save, they already failed all the saves). You might also get telepathy with them and perhaps even count them as part of your body like sinister images.

[Magikeeper]

Hrm, yeah, opportunity attacks are a reaction and that's the situation you'd want to suddenly have more reach as a reaction in. 5E does not have free actions, and making it a bonus action wouldn't play nice with the rest of tentacle (which was an earlier draft of it). I'll have to think of something else. Edit: Ended up replacing it with Synchronizing Tentacles.

Still thinking of something to replace Coiling with.

Spoiler: Various drafts for tier IV coil replacement

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1fp - Shadow Tendrils (Requires Absent Absent Locomotion)
You may form ghostly, shadowy, or other, similar tendrils that are intangible but still capable of being used to attack with. Such tendrils deal force or psychic damage (your choice, chosen each time you attack) instead of bludgeoning or slashing damage, and do not trigger effects involving physical contact (e.g., if creatures that strike an opponent take 1d6 fire damage when attacking it with a body part, you wouldn't take that damage when striking it with your shadow tendrils). Any creatures damaged by these tendrils must make a charisma saving throw. If they fail the save, they count as a part of your body for the purposes of the Decentralized Form and/or Sinister Image class features for ten minutes (but not for any other purpose). Your shadow tendrils can be used to manipulate objects and make grapple attacks, and can pass though solid objects without effecting them.

^
Well, it's certainly an interesting ability. I had already been thinking about connecting it to sinister image, but my earlier ideas were just sorta.. clunky. Also, I tried to keep the effects of advance alterations short in duration - otherwise you could just use them in your down time and just swap them out for other alterations when actually adventuring. True Spawn is about the only exception to that trend.

Edit: yeah, as written the decentralized existence bit is confusing Will fix, I am leaning towards this one. Edit 2: Tweaked it.
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3fp - Seed Tendrils
As an action, you may will one of the tips of your tendrils to detatch, leaving it at any location within their reach. The detached tip erupts into a 5' radius mass of tendrils that attempt to bind any opponents within their reach at the end of each of your turns. Effected creatures must make a dexterity saving throw. If they succeed, their movement speed is halved (rounded down to the nearest 5ft increment) for 1 round. If they fail their save, they are restrained and may attempt to free themselves each turn by making a strength saving throw as an action. Upon a success, their movement speed is halved for 1 round but they are no longer restrained. If they fail, they take 2d6 bludgeoning damage from the tendrils. The tendrils dissolve after 1 minute, freeing anyone still restrained by them. The tip of your tendril regrows immediately.

Using this ability is straining - after using it twice you cannot use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may apply this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use the granted ability before completing a short or long rest by one.

^
Main issue is how wordy it is, and that it currently results in tendrils that float in mid-air if not near ground, which doesn't make much sense.

[Magikeeper]

So! You may have noticed I severally overhauled fin to remove its aquaman-esq dependency on being near the water for a third of its earlier alterations to do anything. I also fixed up some wordings.


As for Tendril, my latest idea for replacing coiling is this:

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1fp – Paradox Tendrils (Requires Absent Locomotion)
Your absent limbs can do more than move – you can form missing/ghostly/etc limbs that are capable of interacting with creatures and objects as though they were real and solid. This means these tendrils can be used to attack creatures, manipulate objects, make grapple attempts, etc, but otherwise pass through objects and barriers (such as a wall of force, flaming spheres, etc). Worn/wielded objects count as being a part of a creature for this effect (e.g. if you attack a creature, its armor is still effective). This benefit does not extend beyond the paradox tendrils and any alterations that add to them (E.g. a mouth on a paradox tendril would gain this alteration’s benefit, but if the mouth had a breath weapon the breath would be stopped by barriers like it normally would. Likewise, an attached spike would benefit from this effect but it would lose this benefit if it was thrown/detached). The tendrils otherwise have the same reach, strength, etc. as your regular limbs.

Basically a modification of shadow tendrils. I realized just the passing-through-stuff ability was rather complex and interesting without tossing in the Sinister Image bonus. Tell me what you think!

[Gideon Falcon]

So, am I right in assuming that you have abandoned the 3.5e reboot in order to focus on this one?

[Qwertystop]

Typo in Focus Surge: "At level second level and above"

EDIT: For MultiAssault, I would think that if you want bonus actions to not count you need to actually say so.

[Magikeeper]

Huh, once again I vanish for awhile and then the responses start flowing in. :P

So, am I right in assuming that you have abandoned the 3.5e reboot in order to focus on this one?

If anyone wants me to post on that thread so they could suggest stuff and such that's fine, in that case I'd check up on it now and then.

I suppose I never did update the prestige classes.. Updating Cosmic Horror / finishing Menacing Manor (which is already playable but isn't quite finished) would be simple enough. Malshaper.. I'd really need to get back into a 3E mindset to update that one, it'd be very tough to balance.

The 3.5 base class itself plus feats and such are done - it could be altered further, but the class doesn't have any holes in it (aside from missing prestige classes, but Ozodrin was always built to make 1-20 a fine option, and the changed Farspawn makes it more multi-class friendly than the original). It's very playable.

I don't really get the impression that class is even being used, which is sad given the ridiculous amount of time I put into it :P. On rare occasions I search the site for the term and/or google, but.. to give an example, the only recent use is someone suggesting the previous 3.5 version to someone else. I was genuinely surprised to see you bring it up, tbh.

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I play in a 5E game every other week now, which allows me to finally get some playtesting in. There's also a few things about this class I don't feel completely confident in balance-wise yet (I want to see damage in practice, and such), and a few alterations (like energy consuming flesh) that I'm not happy with.


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Qwertystop: Thanks!

[Qwertystop]

I don't really get the impression that class is even being used, which is sad given the ridiculous amount of time I put into it :P. On rare occasions I search the site for the term and/or google, but.. to give an example, the only recent use is someone suggesting the previous 3.5 version to someone else. I was genuinely surprised to see you bring it up, tbh.

Personally, I was using it, but then the game died. At least, I think it was that version of it - it's been a while. Can't really sustain more than one or two games at once when they're moving at a good pace, or I'd be looking for somewhere to play this one - even though I haven't actually played 5e before.

[Magikeeper]

Qwertystop: Glad to hear it! :D Do tell if you ever find time to join such a game.


I just made a pile of changes to the flesh feature!

> Energy Generating Flesh now effects claws/gore attacks as well and Psychic is a damage type option now. EDIT: I've also changed Generating Flesh to 2 damage instead of 1d6, removed the ability to let you make the alteration multiple times, and changed it so you can just pick 2 energy types whenever you make the alteration. It was basically never worth it to take it more than once before, and +1d6 to every attack is too strong at low levels. A primary (Flesh) Ozodrin w/spike and tentacle secondary would have been dealing 1d6+1+1d6 energy each round at level one.
> Moved Filtering Flesh to tier II and combined it with Liquid Converting Flesh
> Drastically Changed how Energy Consuming Flesh works and moved it to Tier I.
> Added Energy Devouring Flesh to Tier II
> Changed how Regenerating Flesh (still tier III flesh) works and increased its cost to 2fp. It basically uses Hit Dice as a resource now, replenishing them by eating food (1lb/dice) and letting you expend them as an action to regain 3hp per dice expended. Please tell me what you think about this change!

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2fp – Regenerative Flesh
Whenever you would consume, or effectively consume for the purposes of avoiding starvation/thirst, a pound of food you may regain an expended hit die instead of gaining sustenance. You also gain greater control over your metabolism, allowing you to digest eaten food as quickly or slowly has you desire.

Furthermore, you may, as an action, expend any number of hit dice. Instead of their normal effect you regain 3 hp for each hit die so expended.

> Added Acclimating Flesh to tier III, which is kinda really niche but covers the "I want high level Flesh Ozodrin to be able to survive dang near anywhere" issue without making Energy Consuming Flesh as clunkcy as it used to be...

> Moved Bizarre Energy whatever (accidentally lost old version while updating) to tier IV and turned it into Bizarre Energy Metabolism.

> Added Psychic to Secreting Flesh damage options. Basically just added it to all the "Energy" alterations, since that's sort of an aberration thing.



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In other news, if no one sees an issue with it I'm going to replace Coiling Tendrils with Paradox Tendrils.

[Magikeeper]

What's this? Another round of "Magikeeper howls possible class changes into the empty void?"

It is! This is a big one though.. I started working on some small tweaks of the Spike feature and ended up overhauling the whole thing. Too much +damage at level 6, far too many passive abilities, some of the stuff isn't worded all that well, and the higher level alterations are mostly +damage.

So here is what I'm thinking about:

NEW:

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Base Alteration: You can add spikes/spines/etc to your true nature. Their exact form can vary, but they are sharp. These spikes add 1 piercing damage to any tentacle/tail attacks, claw attacks, fin/wing slap attacks and unarmed strikes you make. This alteration does not grant you any of the above attacks if you are not already capable of making them. Spikes removed from your body deteriorate after one hour.

Tier I Advanced Alterations:

1fp – Throwing Spikes
You can fire or hurl your spikes as a ranged attack action (1d8 + Strength or Dexterity modifier piercing damage, thrown (range 60'/180'), finesse). Your attack roll is equal to your proficiency bonus plus either your strength or dexterity modifier (as normal). You cannot use the two-weapon fighting action with this attack. Fired/Hurled spikes quickly regrow.

1fp – Longshot Spikes (Requires Throwing Spikes)
The range of the ranged attack granted by your Throwing Spike alteration is increased by 20’/60’. This alteration may be made multiple times, the range increase stacks.

1fp - Goring Spikes
You can form spikes that are more suitable for melee combat, granting you the ability to use your spikes to make melee gore attacks (1d8 + Strength or Dexterity modifier piercing damage, finesse). Your bonus on the attack roll is your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier. You cannot use the two-weapon fighting action with this attack.

1fp - Carved Spikes
You can subtly alter your spikes, dulling them, adding sharp side edges, adding holes, and otherwise form spikes in any rough shape they could be quickly carved into. This allows you to form spikes that deal bludgeoning and/or slashing damage, spikes that create a whistling sound as they move through the air, etc. You may detach these spikes from your body as a part of any action (A new spike quickly grows to replace it).

2fp – Hollow Spikes
As a bonus action you can will your spikes to generate poison. Until the beginning of your next turn, any creature damaged by one or more of your spikes takes 1 poison damage and must make a constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is poisoned until the end of your next turn. You are immune to this poison. A creature hit by multiple spikes in the same round only takes the poison damage once / makes a single saving throw.

After using this ability twice, you may not use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use this ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.

Tier II Advanced Alterations:

2fp - Deadly Spikes (Requires Throwing Spikes or Goring Spikes)
Your spikes are especially lethal in their design (Sharper, larger, etc). The ranged attack action granted by your Throwing Spikes alteration and/or the melee attack granted by your Goring Spikes alteration deals 2d10 + your ability modifier damage instead of their regular amount. You may apply this alteration multiple times, increasing the amount of damage by 2 each time.

2fp – Smoke Spikes
As a bonus action you may fill your spikes with an unstable mixture. Until the beginning of your next turn, whenever one of your spikes strikes a targeted creature or object (such as by using the ranged attack granted by the Throwing Spikes alteration) it deals damage as normal before exploding. This explosion deals 2 points of bludgeoning damage to the struck target (no save) and creates a 10’ radius cloud of thick smog centered around the point of detonation. This smog lasts for 1 round and its area is heavily obscured. A wind of moderate or greater speed (at least 10 miles per hour) disperses the cloud. You can choose the color and smell of the smog, and can choose to create a cloud whose radius is less than 10ft.

You may choose to have only some of your spikes explode. If an exploding spike was still attached to you, you take 2 bludgeoning damage when it explodes.

Using this ability is straining. After using it three times, you may not use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use this ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by two.

1fp – Tether (Requires Throwing Spikes)
You can choose to have any of your fired/thrown spikes remain connected to you by some kind of secretion – spider silk, goo, etc - that hardens when your spike hits something or when you will it to do so (willing the material to harden before the spike hits something causes the attack to miss). This secretion has the durability of silk rope. A tether cannot be longer than your spikes' normal range (not maximum range) - if the spike is fired beyond that range the tether can still be formed but it will not be connected to you. Using this with the Carved Spikes alteration effectively allows you to use your spikes like grappling hooks, along with anything else you might use a rope for.

Any “rope” created this way dissolves in an hour and can easily be identified as a material that isn’t going to last very long. You can detach the end of a “rope” that is connected to you as a bonus action.

1fp – Twisting Spikes
You can use muscular action to powerfully twist your spikes in a drill-like motion, doubling the amount of damage they deal to objects. Such spikes also embed themselves into any objects they damage. An embedded spike can support up to 1000 pounds of weight without getting pulled out.

Furthermore, this spinning motion can aid in keeping a fired spike on course – attacking at long range does not impose disadvantage on your ranged spike attack rolls and you may ignore half cover when making ranged spike attacks. This alteration doesn’t give you the ability to make ranged spike attacks if you cannot already do so.

Tier III Advanced Alterations:

2fp – Shredding Volley (Requires Throwing Spikes)
You may, once per round as an action, make a single ranged attack as described in the Throwing Spikes alteration and apply it against any opponent within range of your throwing spikes. All other foes within 5' of the targeted opponent must make a dexterity saving throw or take damage as though they were hit by the attack (even if the attack misses). If the attack misses, the targeted opponent still takes half damage (no save). The flurry of spikes benefits from your other alterations (tether, etc) as normal.

Using this ability is straining - once you use it twice you cannot use it again until after you complete a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each instance increasing the number of times you can use it before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.

2fp – Burrowing Spikes
Your spikes embed themselves in any creatures they damage, expanding/unfolding/etc to push themselves deeper into your foes. An opponent with one or more spikes embedded in them takes 3 points of slashing damage at the start of each of your turns. They also take 5 points of slashing damage whenever they use their movement and/or are successfully shoved/pushed.

An afflicted opponent can use an action to remove all spikes embedded in themselves, dealing 1d10 slashing damage to themselves in the process.

If you damage a creature with a spike that is still attached to your body (such as via the Goring Spike or Deadly Quills alteration), you may choose to have the spike detach itself from you when it embeds itself in a foe. If you don't detach the spike, both you and the damaged opponent gain the grappled condition until the opponent removes the embedded spike or you choose to have the spike detach itself from you (like releasing a creature from a grapple). If an afflicted opponent is more than two size categories larger than you it does not gain the grappled condition, but any movement it makes carries you with it until you detach the spike or the opponent removes it. As with throwing spikes, new spikes grow to replace any detached spikes.

1fp – Obliterating Toxins (Requires Hollow Spikes)
Choose force or necrotic. The poison generated by your spikes deals 1 point of the chosen damage type in addition to the 1 point of poison damage. Creatures immune to poison / the poisoned condition are still effected by your altered toxins (including becoming poisoned) unless they are also immune to the chosen damage type. Furthermore, the bodies of any creatures that die while poisoned by your spikes’ toxin dissolve into sludge (necrotic) or dust (force). Their gear is not effected.

2fp – Deadly Quills
Creatures that attack you with an unarmed strike or a weapon that is a part of their body takes 2 piercing damage from your spikes. This alteration may be made multiple times, increasing the amount of damage dealt by 1 each time.

Tier IV Advanced Alterations:

2fp – Deleterious Existence (Requires Hollow Spikes)
Creatures have disadvantage on constitution saving throws made against the effects of your secreted toxins. Furthermore, any creature damaged by your spike’s poison has disadvantage on all constitution, strength, and dexterity saving throws for 1 round (even if they succeed on their constitution saving throw).

If you would start a combat without any remaining uses of the ability granted by the Hollow Spikes alteration, you start with one remaining use instead.

1fp – Frenzied Contraction (Requires Tether)
You may, as an action and/or bonus action, will one of the “ropes” created by the effects of your Tether alteration, that is still connected to you, to contract. This effect rapidly pulls you and anything connected to you towards the spike on the other end with immense force (but does not exert any force on the spike itself). The spike on the other end re-attaches to your body when you reach it (if it is embedded in a creature, both you and the creature are now grappled as noted in the Burrowing Spikes alteration).

1fp – Piercing Rain (Requires Shredding Volley)
Whenever you use the ability granted by Shredding Volley you may choose to unleash a storm of spikes in all directions instead of focusing on a single target. When you do so, all foes within 40', that do not have cover, must make a dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d10 damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The flurry of spikes benefits from your other alterations (tether, etc) as normal. The range of this effect increases by 5' for each time you have made the longshot spikes alteration.

Furthermore, if you would start a combat without any remaining uses of the ability granted by the Shredding Volley alteration you start with one remaining use instead.

1fp – Flickering Spikes (requires Throwing Spikes or Goring Spikes)
As an action, you may make a single attack with one of your spikes (as granted by your Throwing Spikes and/or Goring Spikes alterations). This spike fades in and out of existence, taking on a phantasmal appearance as it passes through any barrier between it and the target of your attack. The range of your attack does not change. If you cannot perceive your target, you can instead attempt to attack the square you think they’re in with disadvantage (like attacking a creature in a heavily obscured area). This spike cannot benefit from the effects of the Tether alteration.

Using this ability is straining - after using it twice, you may not use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use this ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.

OLD:

Spoiler

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Base Alteration: You can add spikes/spines/etc to your true nature. Their exact form can vary, but they are sharp. These spikes add 1 piercing damage to any tentacle/tail attacks, claw attacks, fin/wing slap attacks and unarmed strikes you make. This alteration does not grant you any of the above attacks if you are not already capable of making them.

Tier I Advanced Alterations:

1fp – Throwing Spikes
You can fire or hurl your spikes as a ranged attack action (1d8 + Strength or Dexterity modifier piercing damage, thrown (range 60'/180'), finesse). Your attack roll is equal to your proficiency bonus plus either your strength or dexterity modifier (as normal). You cannot use the two-weapon fighting action with this attack. Fired/Hurled spikes quickly regrow.

1fp – Longshot Spikes (Requires Throwing Spikes)
The range of the ranged attack granted by your Throwing Spike alteration is increased by 20’/60’. This alteration may be made multiple times, the range increase stacks.

1fp - Goring Spikes
You can form spikes that are more suitable for melee combat, granting you the ability to use your spikes to make melee gore attacks (1d8 + Strength or Dexterity modifier piercing damage, finesse). Your bonus on the attack roll is your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier. You cannot use the two-weapon fighting action with this attack.

1fp – Twisting Spikes
Your spikes can deal any combination of slashing and piercing damage instead of just piercing damage, including the damage added to tentacles, claw attacks, etc (although, being a single point, this latter damage must be one or the other). Furthermore, any slashing damage your spikes deal to objects is doubled. If you have a burrow speed, this alteration lets you burrow through solid stone.

1fp – Hollow Spikes
As a bonus action you can will your spikes to generate poison. Until the beginning of your next turn, any creature damaged by one or more of your spikes must make a constitution save or take 1d4 poison damage (if hit by multiple attacks they are still only effected once). You are immune to this poison.

After using this ability twice, you may not use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use this ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.
Note: I changed this one to beginning, as "end of.." was a typo I noticed while making this post.

Tier II Advanced Alterations:

2fp – Superior Toxins (Requires Hollow Spikes)
You may add your constitution modifier to the amount of damage dealt by the poison your spikes generate. Furthermore, any creature damaged by your poison becomes poisoned for 1 round. You may apply this alteration multiple times, increasing the amount of damage your poison deals by 2 each time.

2fp - Deadly Spikes (Requires Throwing Spikes or Goring Spikes)
Your spikes are especially lethal in their design (Sharper, larger, etc). The ranged attack action granted by your Throwing Spikes alteration and/or the melee attack granted by your Goring Spikes alteration deals 2d10 + your ability modifier damage instead of their regular amount. You may apply this alteration multiple times, increasing the amount of damage by 2 each time.

2fp – Harpooning Spikes
Your spikes embed themselves in any creatures they damage (via sharp barbs, segments that slightly unfold upon impact, etc). An opponent with one or more spikes embedded in them takes 2 points of slashing damage whenever they perform a physical action (such as using multiattack) or use their movement. An afflicted opponent can use an action to remove all spikes embedded in themselves (taking 2 slashing damage in the process).

If you damage a creature with a spike that is still attached to your body (such as via the Goring Spike or Deadly Quills alteration), you may choose to have the spike detach itself from you when it embeds itself in a foe. If you don't detach the spike, both you and the damaged opponent gain the grappled condition until the opponent removes the embedded spike or you choose to have the spike detach itself from you (like releasing a creature from a grapple). If an afflicted opponent is more than two size categories larger than you it does not gain the grappled condition, but any movement it makes carries you with it until you detach the spike or the opponent removes it. As with throwing spikes, new spikes grow to replace any detached spikes.[/i]

1fp – Tether (Requires Harpooning Spikes and Throwing Spikes)
You can choose to have your fired/thrown spikes remain connected to you by some kind of secretion – spider silk, goo, etc - that hardens when your spike hits something or when you will it to do so (willing the material to harden before the spike hits something causes the attack to miss). This secretion has the durability of silk rope and effectively allows you to use your spikes as grappling hooks. A tether cannot be longer than your spikes' normal range (not maximum range) - if the spike is fired beyond that range the tether can still be formed but it will not be connected to you.

Any “rope” created this way dissolves in about ten minutes and can easily be identified as a material that isn’t going to last very long. You can detach the end of a “rope” that is connected to you as a bonus action.

Furthermore, your spikes can embed themselves into any objects they damage. Such objects do not take any additional damage, but an embedded spike can support up to 500 pounds of weight without getting pulled out. Any creature can spend an action to remove all spikes from an object.

Tier III Advanced Alterations:

1fp – Obliterating Toxins (Requires Superior Toxins)
Choose force or necrotic. The poisons generated by your spikes deal can deal the chosen damage type instead of poison damage. Creatures immune to poison / the poisoned condition are still effected by your altered toxins (including becoming poisoned) unless they are also immune to the chosen damage type. Furthermore, the bodies of creatures slain while poisoned by your toxins dissolve into sludge (necrotic) or dust (force). Their gear is not effected.

1fp – Unfolding Spikes (Requires Harpooning Spikes)
Your spikes powerfully unfold after reaching their target (or missing), forming barbed X-shaped hooks or other similar designs. Creatures with such spikes embedded in them take 3 damage whenever the perform an action or use their movement instead of 2, and any creature that removes one or more embedded spikes from their body takes and additional 1d10 slashing damage in the process.

Furthermore, if you have made the tether alteration, your embedded spikes can support up to 2000 pounds of weight without getting pulled out.

2fp – Shredding Volley (Requires Throwing Spikes)
You may, once per round as an action, make a single ranged attack as described in the Throwing Spikes alteration and apply it against any opponent within range of your throwing spikes. All other foes within 5' of the targeted opponent must make a dexterity saving throw or take damage as though they were hit by the attack (even if the attack misses). If the attack misses, the targeted opponent still takes half damage (no save). The flurry of spikes benefits from your other alterations (tether, etc) as normal.

Using this ability is tiring - once you use twice you cannot use it again until after you complete a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each instance increasing the number of times you can use it before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.

2fp – Deadly Quills
Creatures that attack you with an unarmed strike or a weapon that is a part of their body take 2 piercing damage from your spikes. This alteration may be made multiple times, increasing the amount of damage dealt by 1 each time.

Tier IV Advanced Alterations:

2fp – Overpowering Toxins (Requires Superior Toxins)
Creatures have disadvantage on saving throws made against your spike-generated poison. Furthermore, creatures that fail their saving throw against your poison lose all damage resistances they possess for 1 round (apply poison damage after removing resistances). This ability does not remove damage immunities nor does it remove magic resistance.

1fp – Deleterious Existence (Requires Superior Toxins)
If you would start a combat without any remaining uses of the ability granted by the Hollow Spikes alteration, you start with two remaining uses instead. Furthermore, the amount of damage dealt by your poison increases to 2d6 + your constitution modifier.

1fp – Frenzied Contraction (Requires Tether)
You may, as an action and/or bonus action, will one of the “ropes” created by the effects of your Tether alteration, that is still connected to you, to contract. This effect rapidly pulls you and anything connected to you towards the spike on the other end with immense force (but does not exert any force on the spike itself). The spike on the other end re-attaches to your body when you reach it (if it is embedded in a creature, both you and the creature are now grappled as noted in the Harpooning Spikes alteration).

1fp – Piercing Rain (Requires Shredding Volley)
Whenever you use the ability granted by Shredding Volley you may choose to unleash a storm of spikes in all directions instead of focusing on a single target. When you do so, all foes within 40', that do not have cover, must make a dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d10 damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The flurry of spikes benefits from your other alterations (tether, etc) as normal. The range of this effect increases by 5' for each time you have made the longshot spikes alteration.

Furthermore, if you would start a combat without any remaining uses of the ability granted by the Shredding Volley alteration you start with one remaining use instead.

Summary of Proposed Changes:

Spoiler

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> Add Carved Spikes alteration to Tier I
> Combine Hollow Spike and Superior Toxins alteration, lower the damage to 1 (plus other tweaks), and keep it at Tier I but change cost to 2fp.

> Move Twisting Spikes to Tier II and change how it works.
> Add Smoke Spikes to Tier II
> Slightly change how Tether works - it no longer requires Harpooning Spikes.

> Move Harpooning Spikes to Tier III, rename it Burrowing Spikes and slightly re-fluff it. Change the way the damaging effect works.
> Tweak Obliterating Toxin's wording.
> Rearrange order of alterations (not a mechanical change, I think having Shredding Volley be first looks better)

> Remove Overpowering Toxins
> Change how Deleterious Existence works, change cost to 2fp
> Add Flickering Spikes to Tier IV

Anyway, thoughts? Knee-jerk reactions are also useful.

[Qwertystop]

Anyway, thoughts? Knee-jerk reactions are also useful.

Ask and ye shall receive (though not much for balance, since I still don't know much 5e):

Twisting is effectively completely different, and since it's in a different tier as well, comparison is difficult. The old one was certainly relatively boring.

Carved could use some more detail on what you can do - "create a whistling sound" is not insignificant in terms of the amount of control implied. Can you make them curve in flight, allowing ranged attacks around cover/corners? That seems well within reach of the described ability (given that it can reasonably be done with a Frisbee) but is also pretty big tactically. Can you give them barbs, so they get stuck and must be ripped out? Can you make hollow-point bullets, or ones fragile enough to shatter on launching and get a spray of (non-harmful, but painful in the eyes) fragments? Again, within the description but potentially a significant impact on combat. Also, it allows you to detach them at will - which means that even if you don't have Throwing Spikes, you could still throw them. Probably need rules for that.

Hm. Guaranteed minimum damage with the possibility of disadvantage, instead of a chance of varying damage and no disadvantage. I don't have practical 5e experience but I would mark that as probably a decent buff overall - disadvantage being better than what's probably only a one-point damage increase on average, and it's even better against enemies with high Constitution throws.

Not needing Harpooning to be able to use Tether is good - "I want rope" doesn't automatically mean "I want to grapple at range". On the other hand, sticking it to objects now requires Twisting - I would have thought it made reasonable sense as part of Harpooning. Tether-to-objects is now 3fp where it was 4fp, and tether-to-opponents is unchanged at 4fp, but getting both now totals 5fp where it was 4fp.

Typo in Obliterating Toxin - "deal" should be "deals". Unclear point: If they are not immune to poison, but are immune to what you chose, what happens?

Deleterious Existence - poison is less unending so resource management still matters (no situation where it becomes a good idea to waste your last shot so that if a fight comes up you'll have two, which the old version could do). Also, sticking with the model of poison as a debuff first, extra damage second. That's good.

Flickering Spikes doesn't make much sense with Goring - if it's a melee attack, and only the spikes can pass through things (not your entire limb/body), it's not going to help you hit through much that you couldn't just punch through. Possible modification: Reduced effect of nonmagical armor or shields if used with Goring rather than Throwing? Also, it might be fitting (in flavor, no idea whether it's needed for balance) to make it require Carved.

[Magikeeper]

Whooo, comments! *Hits the 'rain internet cookies' button*

@Carving
Hrm. You could do much of that with that wizard conjuration option, but I admit the surroundings of Carved Spike imply a more combat-centric bent. As for the specific ideas:
> Hollow Point: I think this would be interesting but not really abusive, and hitting eyes and stuff might be called shot territory which generally isn't allowed anyway.
> Barbs: Hrm.. wouldn't normal arrows typically get stuck in their targets? That's one of the reason why I changed Harpooning's fluff to better imply it is more than just getting stuck - it goes above and beyond regular arrows in its continual damage dealing.
> Greater Elvish Dire War Frisbees - Yep, this is a problem. Throwing Spikes + Carved sorta imply you can shoot any shape and make it work. I need to come up with a line noting that's not so, or else.. Frisbees.
> Look Ma, No Throwing Spikes! - Also a problem. I guess I could just change it so it is only detachable if you have throwing spikes. Detached spikes don't last longer than a short rest right now, so that should work. Otherwise I think any restricting text I write to prevent such use is going to sound nonsensical.

@Hollow Spikes (whose name I should change..)
Yeah, if anything I'm worried it might a little too good. It's kind of similar to the first level spell Ray of Sickness, at least until you get multiassault.

Harpooning and Objects
Hrm.. I originally had harpooning sticking to both, but removed "and objects" because I realized a single burrowing spike - if left in a section of wall for an entire hour - would deal 1800 damage, and if I specified objects weren't effected I'd have a... actually, I could just specify object embedding at the end. I guess that wouldn't be very clunky. Or just let burrowing spikes destroy objects, it's not nonsensical that a spike continuously trying to unfold could break something and you could break most things faster by just attacking them for a couple minutes. Switch it to just effect anything it strikes, maybe? I will ponder this.

@Obliterating

Unclear point: If they are not immune to poison, but are immune to what you chose, what happens?

Then you have made a poor life decision. :P
Seriously, though, I think I'll just add a "both poison and.." so you only get blocked if they are immune to both. Edit: Currently going with it dealing an extra point of damage instead of replacing the poison damage. That implies the "also" later in the ability works both ways, I think.

@Deleterious Existence
Huh. I had not noticed that 2-shot issue. Yeah, that'd need to be fixed in anycase.
I think moving away from having the poison be all about damage was a good idea, yeah.

@Flickering Spikes
Yeah, interaction with Goring is very iffy. I don't want to mess around with negating armor and such as that's really more a 3E thing - 5E seems determined to keep AC mostly static in combat for streamlining purposes, relying on advantage/disadvantage instead of changing the number.
I could have Flickering Spikes have advantage vs armored foes, but.. eh, not sure about that.

I'll ponder this one as well. Also, I could see a fluff connection between Flickering/Carving, but as far as dependencies are concerned I try to avoid them whenever it is reasonable to do so.

[Qwertystop]

Whooo, comments! *Hits the 'rain internet cookies' button*

@Carving
Hrm. You could do much of that with that wizard conjuration option, but I admit the surroundings of Carved Spike imply a more combat-centric bent. As for the specific ideas:
> Hollow Point: I think this would be interesting but not really abusive, and hitting eyes and stuff might be called shot territory which generally isn't allowed anyway.
> Barbs: Hrm.. wouldn't normal arrows typically get stuck in their targets? That's one of the reason why I changed Harpooning's fluff to better imply it is more than just getting stuck - it goes above and beyond regular arrows in its continual damage dealing.
> Greater Elvish Dire War Frisbees - Yep, this is a problem. Throwing Spikes + Carved sorta imply you can shoot any shape and make it work. I need to come up with a line noting that's not so, or else.. Frisbees.
> Look Ma, No Throwing Spikes! - Also a problem. I guess I could just change it so it is only detachable if you have throwing spikes. Detached spikes don't last longer than a short rest right now, so that should work. Otherwise I think any restricting text I write to prevent such use is going to sound nonsensical.

Hollow-point rounds and called shots are nothing to do with each other - it's roughly 'shortly after impact, splashes, causing massive internal hemorrhaging'.

Yes, arrows would tend to get stuck - but then, IRL arrows would be problematic in general, especially if someone's moving the hit area, and the game doesn't model that. It's one of those vague areas where effects that would reasonably be default are instead tied to specific extras, which makes it hard to figure out what other things relating to those effects would do. If nothing else, adding extra barbs might be seen as increasing the difficulty of removing a Burrowing spike.

Re: Frisbees: The specific shape isn't an issue - just the fact that if you allow things like whistling (caused by making a shape that produces different airflow), it's not far from there to curving in the air (same). Boomerangs would be the same problem. Frankly, spheres would be the same problem - it's called a curveball.

As far as throwing - you could just say in Throwing that without Throwing, spikes are not ranged weapons (even if detached some other way). There are still rules for improvised thrown weapons, right? Without spending points on making them throwable, they won't be any better than grabbing a tent spike or a shortsword and throwing that.

[Magikeeper]

Okay, I've been pondering a number of changes these past two weeks, and today was the day I made them all.

Some of these were the proposed Spike changes, so I'll note how I changed the proposed.. changes:

> Had carved note it doesn't give any proficiency. Since I changed the wording of Ballistic/Goring spikes it's pretty clear you need those alterations to be proficient in those weapons so that's that. As for frisbees and stuff, after more thought I decided most of those wouldn't really be that bad in practice. Everyone can move and shoot in 5E. Hollow point, if it came up, would need to be DM/player thing, it is dealing with aspects of archery 5E doesn't go into and the ability doesn't explicitly suggest making those so.. same as archer making hollow point arrows - DM has to decide on something. There are other abilities in the game that could do similar things (but don't suggest doing them either).

> Currently set Poisonous (formerly hollow) spikes to 1 use / 2fp and then each additional alteration is +2 uses. Might change this further.

> The base alteration of spikes now lets you deal piercing instead of regular damage type when you choose, and adds 1d4 piercing damage to critical hits. The latter effect benefits Ballistic/Goring spikes as well, which fixes the issue that the base spike alteration... did very little for the spike trait itself.

> Throwing Spikes became Ballistic Spikes. Not being a ranged weapon apparently prevents full use of the Sharpshooter feat, which when allowed is just too important for archery types. So it's now explicitly a ranged weapon with reverse finesse (you can use strength for it).

> Flickering Spikes deny reactions when opponent is within 5ft. There, it does something for Goring spikes.

> Burrowing Spikes can hit objects again.

> Smoke Spikes no longer damage you in melee. Trying to make Goring more viable.

> Other wording tweaks

Spoiler: Summary

Show

> Massive overhaul. Much of this is less about balance and more about fixing some traits with monotonous early game play and tweaking the way damage works to better fit other classes. The deadly alterations worked so differently from how other classes did damage ( high base damage instead of lower base damage + powerful circumstantial effects) that it was very difficult to balance them. Furthermore, they suffered from trying to balance the traits combat-wise through 6-20 with a level 6 +damage ability. Design-wise I decided it'd be better to just tweak the higher level alterations.
> All deadly X alterations changed to just give +1dX damage, where X is the damage dice the weapon originally did. Deadly Flesh deals was changed to deal 2d6 damage. The ability to apply them multiple times was removed.
> Eye overhaul:
>> Move Disorienting Glare from tier II to tier I, made it clear you can't stealth disorient targets
>> Changed Devouring Glare to Dissolving Glare, reduced it to 1fp, removed healing effect.
>> Moved Far Reaching Glares from tier I to tier III, doubled benefit (15-30)
>> Removed Tremorsense from Tier II.
>> Added the healing effect of the old Devouring Glare to the tier II Devouring Glare alteration (1fp)
>> Changed Deadly Gaze to 1fp, since in practice it is the weakest deadly (Can't twf it, lacks spike's benefits).
>> Moved Rejecting Glare to tier II, removed the per-rest restriciton and made it 2fp. I might nerf it back to being X per rest...
>> Changed wording of Binding Glare, made it 2fp for 3 uses + 2 uses per additional alteration.
>> Removed the range limit from Proclaiming Gaze.

> Deadly Flesh was reduced to 1fp along with the damage nerf. Energy Generating flesh already costs 2fp.

> Finally replaced Coiling Tentacles with Paradox Tentacles.

> Orifice Overhaul:
>> Tweaked several wordings.
>> Spit attack wording changes - it is now a melee thrown weapon. This deals with the OP-with-Sharpshooter issue.
>> Tweaked Destructive Drool (Tier III) to be a bonus action effect. This was a nerf, might need to make this stronger again later.
>> Added Deranged Hunger to Tier III. Orifice's (sorta) tanking subtheme really needed to be thrown a bone at this tier.

> Changed base damage of Mass Assault (Tier I Puppet) to1d8+cha.
> Mass Harass now notes what kind of cover (3/4ths). That really needs to be playtested.

> Spike Overhaul:
>> I suggest completely re-reading this one.
>> Many wording changes.
>> Base Alteration now add 1d4 piercing to crits instead of +1 bonus damage always, and it effects your spikes as well. No more "Spike's base alteration does very little for spikes". I probably need to specify you can use poisonous spikes with it and such though..
>> Added Carved Spikes alteration to Tier I
>> Reworded Throwing Spikes and Renamed them Ballistic Spikes. Basically entirely so they can work with Sharpshooter feat. I thought they could before, but they technically did not qualify for the -5/+10. Ranged-spike-tossing Ozodrin don't want to be the only archery-sorts that can't make full use of the amazing archery feat..
>> Combined Hollow Spike and Superior Toxins alteration, lower the damage to 1 (plus other tweaks), and keep it at Tier I but change cost to 2fp.
>> Changed Hollow Spike (Now Poisonous Spikes) to 1 use, plus 2 uses per additional alteration. I might change this further in the future.. maybe have it cost more each time you add it? That'd be strange..
>> Moved Twisting Spikes to Tier II and changed how it works.
>> Added Smoke Spikes to Tier II
>> Slightly changed how Tether works - it no longer requires Harpooning Spikes.
>> Moved Harpooning Spikes to Tier III, rename it Burrowing Spikes and slightly re-fluff it. Changed the way the damaging effect works.
>> Tweak Obliterating Toxin's wording, have it add 1d6 damage.
>> Rearrange order of alterations (not a mechanical change, I think having Shredding Volley be first looks better)
> Removed Overpowering Toxins
> Change how Deleterious Existence works, change cost to 2fp
> Add Flickering Spikes to Tier IV

I noted a new ability for Tier III Orifice in the above. It is this:

2fp - Deranged Hunger (Requires Devouring Mouths)
Whenever you successfully deal bludgeoning or piercing damage to a creature with your bite attack you may use a bonus action to enter a feeding frenzy for one round. While in this state you have advantage on wisdom and charisma saving throws and disadvantage on wisdom ability checks and intelligence ability checks. Furthermore, if you would be reduced to 0 HP while in this state you are instead reduced to 1 HP and this effect immediately ends.

High-tier orifice felt like it was really lacking something in the combat department, at least for anyone that didn't want to focus on spit/breath.

I seriously overhauled eye, I suggest just re-reading it. Hopefully the changes make it more enjoyable to play in an actual game over numerous encounters and such, although removing the per-rest restriction from Rejecting Glare might not be a good idea..

EDIT: I overhauled eye again, I'll add the changes to the log tomorrow.
> Removed darkvision, added Crossed Senses
> Altered Heightened Senses. It's slightly stronger now, but the change was to decomplicate using it with passive perception.
> Moved Rejecting Glare to tier IV, tweaked fluff and weight reduction amount (1/10 -> 1/100). It is still at-will.
> Moved Enveloping Glare to tier II, changed how it works.
> Changed Relentless Glare to 2fp, it now also lets you regain a use of a single eye-trait ability you're out of each combat.
> Removed Crippling Gaze, eye has 4 pretty nice IV traits now.

EDIT: Major Overhaul of Fin. I started the overhaul to make it more interesting during the first 5 levels, then those changes propagated through the upper tiers. I also modified the alterations to make more combinations viable (Fin had more-or-less the most linear progression. Well, aside from Puppet (which needs some tweaks as well)).

[Magikeeper]

Updates!

EYE:

> Enveloping Gaze, although interesting, is something that could well cause table-side arguments in play. It could be obnoxiously powerful or not that strong at all, and fixing the wording would make it rather verbose. On top of that it always felt rather shoehorned in... in anycase, while working on fixes I thought about replacing it with Murmuring Glare:

2fp – Murmuring Glare
You can, as an action, force a thought of your choice (such as “something is watching me” or “A pie would taste real good right now”) upon a target within 60’ of you, forcing them to make a wisdom check. On a failure the thought gets stuck in their head for the next minute or hour (your choice), like an annoyingly catchy song. The target is not compelled in any way to obey the thought, but someone thinking about how great a pie would be right now might be more easily convinced to buy one. On a success the target only hears the thought a single time. In either case, you may choose whether the thought feels foreign or if it feels like it came from their own mind (although some thoughts, such as "I should swear fealty to the stranger that just walked up to me", may cause suspicion of foul play).

Using this ability is straining– once you use the ability granted by this alteration twice you may not use it again until you complete a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, increasing the number of times you can use the granted ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one each time.

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^I think this fits the flavor better, and would be more interesting in play without causing the same issues as Enveloping. The change reduces the peak damage of Eye, true, but not by that much?

The now removed Enveloping Glare:

Spoiler

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2fp – Enveloping Glare
You can, once per round as an action, force an opponent you can see within 60' of you to make an intelligence saving throw. On a failure, they take 4d6 psychic damage and become unable to sense anything except for themselves and you for one round, as though you were both floating in an empty void. On a success they take half as much damage and their senses are not effected. Creatures with truesight or similar abilities have advantage on this saving throw, but such abilities do not overcome the effect. This ability is a magical effect.

Using this ability is straining– once you use the ability granted by this alteration twice you may not use it again until you complete a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, increasing the number of times you can use the granted ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one each time.

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SPIKE:
> Tweaking Flickering Spike. The old version empowers singular attacks.. but a single spike attack doesn't do all that much. Even the poison isn't useful without other attacks (that aren't flickering) being involved.
New Version:

2fp – Flickering Spikes (requires Ballistic Spikes or Goring Spikes)
As a bonus action, you can will your spikes to fade in an out of existence, taking on a phantasmal appearance. While flickering, your spikes can pass through any barrier between you and the target of your attacks. The range of your attacks do not change. If you cannot perceive your target, you can instead attempt to attack the square you think they’re in with disadvantage (like attacking a creature in a heavily obscured area). This attack cannot benefit from the effects of the Tether alteration. Furthermore, any melee attacks made with your spikes have advantage. This effect lasts for 1 round.

Using this ability is straining - after using it twice, you may not use it again until completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, each time increasing the number of times you can use this ability before needing to complete a short or long rest by one.

^ Changed the melee benefit to just having advantage.


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TENTACLE:

> Coordinated Tentacles no longer has a 10' limit - it is now any spot within reach to any other spot within reach. If you want to basically wield the party barbarian I think that's fine (there is obviously a sizable opportunity cost in not, y'know, attacking yourself). Also, this only effects Ozodrin with extended reach since the old limit was enough for a 5' reach PC.


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Any and all comments very welcome!

Edit: Decided against adding scent to Crossed Senses.

[Hanuman]

Hey magikeeper I'm planning on playing your class not too familiar with 5e yet so I don't have much to PEACH.

Spoiler: minor typo

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The Freedom of Flesh
There are many shapeshifitng powers in the world,

Would it be unbalanced to instead of one element for energy producing flesh, add extra bludgeoning damage (for kinetic energy )? Perhaps make it not able to crit, anything else balance-wise?

[Magikeeper]

Hey magikeeper I'm planning on playing your class not too familiar with 5e yet so I don't have much to PEACH.



Would it be unbalanced to instead of one element for energy producing flesh, add extra bludgeoning damage (for kinetic energy )? Perhaps make it not able to crit, anything else balance-wise?

A comment!?

I should probably set up some kind of notification system for when people respond to this thread. >.>

On energy producing flesh: That justification sounds more like Force energy, really. I don't think I'd mind tossing it in if asked by a player while running a game but I think adding bludgeoning to the actual class ability is iffy.

Thanks for the typo notification!

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A while back I was planning on pushing an overhaul of Orifice but then life stuff happened and I haven't had the chance. I suppose I have it mostly typed up.. somewhere....

Well, I need to still remember what all I was changing but I'll stash some of the stuff here:

Spoiler: Orifice Stash

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Things would replace the current temp HP alterations (haunted stomach would replace the current soul-eating alteration):

Tier I changes:

2fp - Ravenous Maws
Whenever you eat a pound of food, successfully hit a creature with a bite attack, or deal damage to a creature in your stomach, you may gain 5 temporary hit points and enter a Digestive Surge for one minute. While surging, you gain 3 temporary hit points at the start of each of your turns. Any temporary hit points granted by this alteration do not stack*, and last until after you complete a short or long rest. Using this ability removes any nourishment you would have otherwise recieved from the meal (as though you had not eaten it in the first place). Effects that are equivalent to eating a pound of food, such as receiving nourishment from the Energy Consuming Flesh alteration (See Flesh trait), may be used to fuel this ability.
*As per page 187 of the DMG, if you have 3 temporary hit points and gain 5 more from another bite, you have a total of 5 temporary hit points (the higher number)

Tier II changes:

1fp - Refined Digestion
Whenever you successfully bite, swallow, lick, or otherwise consume part of a creature or object you gain advantage on all knowledge checks made to discern its physical properties (what it's made of, how old it is, if its resistant to fire, etc). This benefit lasts for 10 minutes.

Furthermore, if you have made the Ravenous Maws alteration the number of temporary hit points granted by it are increased by 100% (5/3 -> 10/6).

Tier III changes:

1fp - Digestive Rift
Your warped digestive track exceeds comprehension, granting you immunity to ingested poisons.

Furthermore, whenever you eat you can choose to store the nourishment it would provide instead of benefiting from it immediately. You may gain the benefit of any amount of this stored nourishment, using it up in the process, as a bonus action. For example, you could eat a pound of meat today, gain no benefit of it (still hungry, etc), and then use a bonus action the following week to suddenly gain the benefits of eating that pound of meat (nourishing yourself, fueling a digestive surge if you have made the Ravenous Maws alteration, etc). There is no limit to how much nourishment you can store this way.

Furthermore, if you have made the Ravenous Maws alteration, the number of temporary hit points granted by it are increased by 100% (5/3 -> 10/6). This benefit stacks with the increase granted by Refined Digestion alteration (10/6 -> 15/9).

Tier 4 Changes:

2fp - Haunted Stomach
Whenever a creature dies in your stomach, you may choose to keep its soul trapped within you instead of letting it pass on. You can telepathically communicate with the bound spirit, although you can choose to silence it as well. Furthermore, you can trap the dead spirit in inescapable nightmares (or dreams) of your own design. You gain advantage on all ability checks made to interact with the trapped soul, and on any Intelligence checks made to know things about the spirits' lives/feelings/etc. This ability might give advantage on other checks as well, at the DM’s discretion. The spirit cannot be resurrected while so trapped. You can choose to release a trapped soul as a bonus action.

Whenever you take a short or long rest you may choose to begin digesting one or more bound souls, erasing them entirely upon successfully completing the rest.

If you unform this feature, all currently trapped spirits are released.

Largely changing the core "eat stuff for temp HP" mechanic to be more dependable round-by-round instead of relying on a large pre-battle HP buffer. I think I was going to have a Tier 4 ability that increased the temp HP gain by another 100%, but I don't see it in my notes..? Other than that this would bring back the refined palate ability ozodrin could get via feat in 3.5 and one of the interesting Cosmic Horror powers in a pre-epic way (haunted stomach).

I also believe I was planning on removing using TWF with spit attacks, and maybe from bite attacks as well. Other aspects of the trait would be changed accordingly. It's been a few months though, so I'd need to refresh my memory. >.>

Old Alterations:

Spoiler

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3fp – Devouring Mouths
Whenever you deal damage to a creature with your bite attack you gain 5 temporary hit points. Furthermore, whenever you eat three or more pounds of food in a single meal you gain 12 temporary hit points. You can digest ordinary food far faster than normal - you are never full unless you want to be. Temporary hit points granted by this alteration last until you finish a short or long rest.
Reminder: Temporary hits points do not stack. See page 198 of the Player's Handbook for more details.

1fp – Salivating Maws
Choose the damage type when making this alteration (Acid, Fire, Cold, Lightning, or Thunder). You may use your drool/spit as a melee weapon (special, light, finesse, thrown (range 30/90)), that deals 1d6 + your constitution modifier damage of the chosen damage type. You are proficient with your spit. You can use the two weapon fighting action with spit attacks.

This alteration may be made multiple times, each additional application lets you choose another energy type. You may have your spit attacks be any combination of your chosen types (for example, you could have a spit attack's damage be half fire and half acid damage).
Note: Melee spit is weird (licking?), but it stops dual wielding sharpshooter -5/+10 and generally works better for the class.

1fp – Sniping Mouths (Requires Spitting Mouths)
The range of your thrown spit attacks increase by 10’/30’. You may make this alteration multiple times, the range increase stacks.

1fp - Destructive Drool (Requires Spitting Mouths)
Whenever you successfully hit a creature with a bite attack, you may use a bonus action to add your drool/spit's damage to the result of the attack (e.g., if your spit dealt 1d6 + your constitution modifier fire damage you would add that to the damage dealt by your bite attack).

1fp - Efficient Consumption (Requires Devouring Mouths)
Whenever you would gain temporary hit points via the abilities granted by your Devouring Mouths alteration, you gain that many + 5 instead. For example, if you would gain 5 temporary hit points you would gain 10 instead.

2fp – Absolute Digestion (Requires Swallow)
Whenever a creature takes damage due to the ability granted by your Swallow alteration you regain hp equal to half the damage dealt. Furthermore, whenever a creature dies in your stomach you may choose to begin digesting its soul. This process takes 24 hours but does not take up space in your stomach. If the soul is digested, it ceases to exist entirely and you gain advantage on any ability checks made to remember interesting facts about the digested creature’s life and/or to impersonate that creature.

[Sariel Vailo]

I am now intrested prepare to have this tested alot.

[Magikeeper]

I am now intrested prepare to have this tested alot.

Great! :D


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Alright, I've overhauled Orifice. Changes:

> Tier I changes:
>> Devouring Mouths replaced with a 3fp Ravenous Maws. It's a bit wordier, but I think it plays nicer with the other traits and alterations now. Also, the digestive surges fix the issue of this ability being very swingy (with devouring mouths you either were hitting and gaining temp HP, or missing and not gaining any temp HP at all). Might change the name "digestive surge" to not use the word "surge", however...
>> Salivating Maws is now a ranged weapon you CANNOT use the TWF action with. Having it be a thrown melee weapon (to avoid sharpshooter + TWF) was just weird. You can, however, use strength on the attack rolls.
>> Sniping Mouths is now Free Flowing Drool, which costs twice as much (2FP), gives double the range increase (same as 2x sniping), and lets you attempt a spit attack (disadvantage -> neither advantage or disadvantage) whenever you successfully hit with a bite attack as a bonus action. (Deadly Breath is now improved for every FFD instead of once per 2xSniping Mouths, since FFD costs 2fp instead of 1fp).
> Tier II changes:
>> Scent-Tasting tongues is now Refined Palette, which also lets you add your proficiency bonus to knowledge checks to determine the physical properties of things you've tasted (in addition to smelling things). Might be undercosted at 1fp.
>> Vicious Mouths is now Dire Consumption. It improves Ravenous Maw ability as well as damage (similar to before).
> Tier III changes:
>> Efficient Consumption has been replaced with Digestive Rift.
>> Destructive Drool, which is too similar (if better) to Free Flowing Drool, has been replaced by Butchering Fangs.
> Tier IV changes:
>> Absolute Digestion has been replaced by Haunted Stomach, which removes healing via digestive damage (Ravenous Maw works with digestion, unlike Devouring Mouths) in exchange for being a generally more interesting ability (IMO).
>> Some other minor wording tweaks (not mechanical changes).

That was the last overhaul I had planned. Please feel free to critique these changes!

[Blindseer]

While I haven't had the chance to playtest this masterpiece, I would just like to ask how this class "keeps up" at higher levels? Some of it doesn't seem as leveling friendly, with so many abilities and attacks specifically stating numerical damage instead of rolls. While that predictability is a strength in its own right, I don't think bombarding dragons with predictability is as effective as power.

Also I just want to thank you for making this and putting so much time in to it. I've been looking for a Homebrew class to allow me minor shapeshifting effects like this for a month, and while it's unlikely I'll get a chance to use it soon this is by far (no contest whatsoever) my favorite class I've ever seen for flavor. I've wanted to play as an aberration for the longest time and this is so much better than I could have expected.

[Magikeeper]

@Blindseer Thanks!

On numerical damage: This seems to be Spike-Trait specific - the only other numerical damage that comes to mind is tier I flesh, and the tier II deadly flesh augment changes that.

Spike trait does have a number of X damage abilities, but most of those are main effect+small amount of extra damage. The exception would be burrowing spike, and I do not yet know for sure how well that works in practice - I am playtesting a primary spike Ozodrin but they've only reached level 6 so far.

More generally, I did consult various spreadsheets and such that detailed expected damage per round for various class/feat combinations while making this class. Based on that, I think the class keeps up at high levels - it seems PC damage tends to greatly increase around level 6, increase again around level 11, and then stay the same or only slightly increase after that. That said, I would greatly appreciate playtesting data should you ever get the chance to play this class!

[Blindseer]

@Magikeeper

Thank you for the explanation, it really cleared it up for me. Part of my concern grew from inexperience, I suppose I was thinking of this too much in castor terms when in reality this is more versatile with more uses. Where castors are locked up by slots, this class can keep renewed and constant effectiveness. Not to mention it's better at hand to hand than a wizard or the like. Thanks again.

[Magikeeper]

Should Ozodrin have the Shapechanger subtype (when they become aberrations)?

For: In the MM, monsters that "magically" polymorph are not shapechangers (Change Shape ability), but those that do not mention the change being magical are shapechangers (Shapechanger ability). Also, shapechanger appears to be more of an innate ability (they keep their abilities, etc). Ozodrin are more similar shapechangers than change shape users.

Against: Ozodrin do not have the "Shapechanger" ability all shapechangers appear to have.

On the other hand: There aren't any monsters whose abilities work like an Ozodrin's. Shapechangers are seemingly the closest of those that exist.


Thoughts?

[JBPuffin]

Should Ozodrin have the Shapechanger subtype (when they become aberrations)?

For: In the MM, monsters that "magically" polymorph are not shapechangers (Change Shape ability), but those that do not mention the change being magical are shapechangers (Shapechanger ability). Also, shapechanger appears to be more of an innate ability (they keep their abilities, etc). Ozodrin are more similar shapechangers than change shape users.

Against: Ozodrin do not have the "Shapechanger" ability all shapechangers appear to have.

On the other hand: There aren't any monsters whose abilities work like an Ozodrin's. Shapechangers are seemingly the closest of those that exist.


Thoughts?

I'd say it depends on just how "wtf is this?" you want the flavor to be. There are many shapechangers; do you want the Ozodrin in that box, or set it free by releasing it from those chains of stereotyping (also, I missed the shapechanging aberrations - which ones would those be)?

[Magikeeper]

I'd say it depends on just how "wtf is this?" you want the flavor to be. There are many shapechangers; do you want the Ozodrin in that box, or set it free by releasing it from those chains of stereotyping (also, I missed the shapechanging aberrations - which ones would those be)?

There are no shapechanger aberrations in 5E that I know of. On one hand, it really isn't quite the same as the other shapechangers, on the other hand 'shapechanger' is apparently also the box for creatures with enough control over their own bodies to not be effected by polymorphing magic and the like. I kinda DO want Ozodrin to be in that group but... eh, I guess I'll leave it off.

Speaking of polymorphing, I realized the old wording of Irregular Mind (which changed the maximum duration of the effect) might be viewed as increasing the power of spells that do horrible things if maintained for their "entire duration". The new version is slightly wordier but avoids the issue. It took.. quite awhile to settle on a new wording for that one.

[JBPuffin]

There are no shapechanger aberrations in 5E that I know of. On one hand, it really isn't quite the same as the other shapechangers, on the other hand 'shapechanger' is apparently also the box for creatures with enough control over their own bodies to not be affected by polymorphing magic and the like. I kinda DO want Ozodrin to be in that group but... eh, I guess I'll leave it off.

That would actually be pretty nice - if being a shapechanger gives you that immunity, I'd totally want that as a player. You could also have that subtype replace their normal racial subtype - they're no longer human or whatever, they're full-on aberration (shapechanger)s.

[Magikeeper]

Question: Does this ability make sense / is it needlessly complex?:

Spoiler: ability

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2fp – Burrowing Spikes
You can form spikes that embed themselves in any creatures or objects they damage, expanding/unfolding/etc to push themselves deeper into your foes. Creatures and objects with one or more spikes embedded in them take 3 points of slashing damage at the start of each of your turns. Creatures so afflicted also take 5 points of slashing damage whenever they use their movement.

An afflicted opponent can use an action to remove all spikes embedded in themselves, dealing 1d10 slashing damage to themselves in the process.

If you damage a creature or object with a spike that is still directly attached to your body (such as via the Goring Spike or Deadly Quills alteration), you may choose to have the spike instantly detach itself from you when it embeds itself into them. If not, you are effectively grappled by the target unless you are two or more size categories larger than them, in which case they are instead effectively grappled by you. In either case, unlike a normal grapple, you can end/automatically break free of all opponents grappling/grappled by you this way as bonus action that removes the spike(s) and deals 1d10 slashing damage to each opponent. Furthermore, your opponent cannot willingly release you/break free of the grapple without removing the embedded spike (as noted above), which automatically ends the grapple. Any other effect that ends the grapple removes the embedded spike and deals 1d10 slashing damage to your opponent.

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I think it's the second third fourth wordiest advanced alteration, and I've pondered just removing all the grapple stuff (just have it always detatch). At some point I want to make a proper PDF and spread the class around, so stuff like "this ability is too complicated for its own good" is a concern.