Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

[Qwertystop]

Spoiler: Long Text

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You are right that the worldly guise's use isn't really incentivized, so maybe it should get the axe. In doing so I hope you keep most aspects of the aberrant metamorphosis trait gained at tenth level that allow alterations to non-trait body parts and physiology. The trait is flavorful and the change to the aberration type instead of humanoid with its knock-on spell interactions make it good enough that you could probably keep the trait as it is aside from cutting the part saying "Furthermore, you may use your Base Alterations and currently chosen Advance Alterations to modify your Worldly Form instead of / in addition to your Inner Nature. This does NOT let you choose any more Advance Alterations than your form points allow. Any Advance Alteration costs/effects based on how many times you've currently made them to your Inner Nature are instead based on how many times you've made them to either of your forms,". If you wanted to keep the worldly guise then perhaps you could incentivize using it by allowing ozodrin in their worldly guise to count as humanoids instead of aberrations for the purpose of spell and ability interaction after level 10. It would be niche, but would have some use in some situations, such as evading detection from spells like Detect Evil and Good. But having a trait from first level that only becomes valuable in rare situations after level 10 may mean even providing that use for the worldly guise might not be worth it. The original 3.5 class, reading it over, seemed to incentivize using the worldly guise by having a debuff applied to enemies that saw the ozodrin switch to their inner natures, "When the ozodrin manifests its true nature, all creatures possessing a line of sight with it that the ozodrin doesn't choose to exclude must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier) or become shaken for one minute or until the end of the encounter, whichever comes last. Creatures that succeed on this saving throw are immune to this effect when used by that particular ozodrin for 24 hours,". Maybe adding that debuff ability to the feature, in a form adapted to the balance of 5e, might make the worldly guise worthwhile.

I think the original also might have made it more complicated/take longer to change out features, instead of collapsing it all as "simple things in one action for as many as you like, bigger things all at once after a rest"? Might be misremembering though.

[Magikeeper]

@Qwertystop:
Interesting char design!

I would argue that if you've unformed all of your basic alterations, the advanced ones can't be active; in almost all cases, they explicitly relate to increasing the capability of the basic ones. If you wanted Worldly Guise to matter more, but didn't want to add too much extra cruft to mostly-cosmetic rearrangements of basic features, perhaps make it explicit that if you have an Advanced Feature, your Inner Nature has to include the appropriate Basic Feature for it to apply to?

They wouldn't be active in Worldly Guise either though - my argument is that Worldly Guise is, at least visually, exactly the same as unforming all of your basic alterations and takes the same amount of time to do. There are a few advanced alterations - mostly Flesh, but also some other ones like Orfice's stomach realm stuff and Fin internal organ buffing - that should still be present without any of the base alterations but none of those change what you look like so having access to them is just better than not having access to them.

I feel the only reason to keep Worldly Guise would be if people find it easier imagine it as two forms when first reading the class, since it isn't obvious that all physical changes come from basic alterations (possible enhanced by advanced alterations) until you've played with the class a bit. Then again, it's likely possible to write a version that makes that clear without having two forms. Or just have a way to suppress all changes.

@sallyisgreat:

On Aberrant Metamorphosis: Yeah, I was intending to keep that. In fact, simplifying Aberrant Metamorphosis is one of the reasons I want to cut Worldly Guise as it could easily just be an ability that lets you alter non-trait stuff + creature type change. The whole Worldly Guise section is unneeded.

Worldly Guise Hiding: I did ponder that, but as you say it'd be a niche thing that only matters after level 10. If I wanted that to be an option, it'd be better to include it as part of the level 10 ability.

@All

Original Ozodrin (3.5) vs 5e:

Spoiler: blather

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Original version was MUCH more complicated to set up, with each tentacle being a separate thing that was heavily customizable and everything was a mechanic. The later 3.5 update streamlined this with the [Fluctuating] tag and such, but it was still the case that a specific form set-up would take quite awhile to do - both in-game and out of game. You would generally have one core set up that you only slightly altered and rely on Wordly Guise to look normal if that was ever needed. A mass suppress was needed; the class couldn't make changing your looks easy because your looks were too closely tied to your combat abilities.

The 5e version took the direction the updated 3.5 version (and I think the PF version?) had started moving in and ran with it, creating a class where altering what you look like is fast and easy and all the powerful mechanics were a separate thing you don't alter as much. I greatly prefer the current 5e Ozodrin design philosophy, tbh.

On Fear:

Spoiler

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The fear effect was an additional bonus, that fit into the base effect Aberrant Feats had on characters in 3.5. In 5E Ozodrin aren't assumed to have massive +Intimidate / -Diplomacy whenever they switch form and such, which was very much a thing even if you were playing a heroic CG Ozodrin in that version.

Moreover, PCs just have less stuff going on in 5E - that's mostly why most of the Ozodrin core class features generally do not help in combat at all, and are pretty niche even outside of combat, aside from Focus Surge and Trait Overflow (Both of which boost alteration stuff instead of being their own thing). Sinister Image is strong and unique but also level 18. Adding a 5E fear effect would be like an extra 2fp power, moreso if it was at-will, and I think it doesn't fit the class as well as it did in 3.5e.

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In general, I don't want to keep Worldly Guise but I'm wondering if anyone would miss it if it were gone, basically. Just removing it and altering the wording of everything else to match would be fine - it doesn't need to be a thing if all the players using the class would be fine without it.

Granted, this assumes I can come up with a good description that removes the need for Worldly Guise to get a good first impression of the class. :P


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EDIT: Initial Draft of new base class feature changes:

Spoiler

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Manifest Form
As an ozodrin, you are capable of altering your body with two kinds of alterations: Base trait alterations and Advanced alterations. To an ozodrin like yourself, this ability is as mundane as a human combing their hair; spells and effects treat your current alterations as part of your original form. Which alterations you have access to depends on your level and your Trait Archetype.

(_) Base trait alterations
Base trait alterations do not cost form points. You may add, remove, or otherwise modify any number Base trait alterations as an action and/or bonus action. Base trait alterations are simple alterations that modify your body in visible ways, such as by adding tentacles. The number of attacks you can make does not change; you still only have one action and possible bonus action per turn.

(_) Advanced trait alterations
You gain 2 form points at level 1, and gain an additional form point at each subsequent level. These form points are used to pay for Advanced trait alterations, and are regained when the chosen alterations are removed. Advanced trait alterations can only be added/removed after completing a short or long rest. Unlike Base trait alterations, Advance trait alterations do not inherently change what you look like - although they may give additional options when altering your Base trait alterations.

Trait Archetype
Each ozodrin is better at making certain kinds of alterations to their form. Choose one of the seven Traits: Eye, Tentacle, Flesh, Orifice, Spike, Puppet, or Fin. This is your "Primary" trait. Then choose two of the remaining traits. These are your "Secondary" traits. All of the remaining traits are henceforth considered as your "Tertiary" traits. These designations form your Trait Archetype, which does not change as you progress through the class.

Each Trait has a "Base" alteration, and then four tiers (I, II, III, IV) of "Advanced" alterations. At level 1, you gain access to the "Tier I" and "Base" alterations of your primary trait and access to just the base alterations of your secondary traits.

At level 6 you also gain access to the tier II alterations of your primary trait, the tier I alterations of your secondary traits, and the base alterations of your tertiary traits.

At level 11 you gain access to the tier III alterations of your primary trait, the tier II alterations of your secondary traits, and the tier I alterations of your tertiary traits.

At level 16 you gain access to the tier IV alterations of your primary trait, the tier III alterations of your secondary traits, and the tier II alterations of your tertiary traits.

Form Point Restriction: You cannot spend more than half of your form points on the Advanced alterations granted by your non-primary traits, and you cannot spend more than one quarter of your form points on the Advanced alterations granted by your Tertiary traits. Round Down in both cases. For example, if you were a level 11 Ozodrin with 12fp you could spend 6fp on secondary alterations, or 3fp on secondary alterations and 3fp on tertiary alterations, but you could not spend 6fp on secondary alterations and 3fp on tertiary alterations because 6+3 = 9 which is more than half of 12. Likewise, you could not spend more than 4fp on alterations granted by your Tertiary traits because 4 is more than one-quarter of 12.

Aberrant Metamorphosis
Starting at 10th level you are forevermore an aberration instead of your previous type (usually humanoid). This changes how some spells and effects interact with you.

Furthermore, whenever you complete a long rest you may modify your non-trait body parts (such as your normal legs). This ability works as follows:
> You may add/remove/relocate non-trait alteration body parts, up to a maximum of however many you would have had without this ability. For example, you could remove your normal eyes one day and regain them a different day or move them from one part of your body to another.
> You can change the general shape and features of your Torso, Neck, and Head. For example, you could become a ball of flesh with limbs or some kind of dog-person.
> You can freely change the form but not capabilities of your internal organs. For example, you can choose to be filled with a semi-solid goo that performs all of the actions your internal organs used to perform but you would still need to eat/drink/etc as normal. This anatomy change may protect you from certain kinds of attacks at the DM's option.

Decentralized Existence
Starting at 13th level, parts of you do not die when cut off and parts that would normally be dead (like visible hair) remain alive instead. You can reattach your dismembered pieces with an action. You have no control over your severed parts, and you cannot feel through them. If you die all of your severed parts die as well.

Furthermore, you always know the direction and distance to any part of your body, along with the nature [hair, leg, etc] and current condition of the body part. If someone uses a piece of you as a material component, you control the resulting effect rather than the caster.

Finally, you can survive and continue thinking without a head, brain, or any other equivalent; if you have a head losing it will not kill you.

[sallyisgreat]

The new draft looks good. Maybe a little intimidating, without some of the fluff of the worldly guise mixed in with the crunch, but the other features that you didn't edit have enough fluff still to make up for that.

[Magikeeper]

The new draft looks good. Maybe a little intimidating, without some of the fluff of the worldly guise mixed in with the crunch, but the other features that you didn't edit have enough fluff still to make up for that.

Hrm I could fluff it up a bit,

Spoiler: Neo Trait Archetype opening paragraph

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Trait Archetype
Each ozodrin is better at making certain kinds of alterations to their form. This distinction runs deeper than looks - each trait has its own way of doing things, both in combat and outside of it. Whether this distinction is tied to an ozodrin's views on life itself, is just their preferred tool-set, or is something in between... well, that's a question only they can answer. Choose one of the seven Traits: Eye, Tentacle, Flesh, Orifice, Spike, Puppet, or Fin. This is your Primary trait. Then choose two of the remaining traits. These are your Secondary traits. All of the remaining traits are henceforth considered your Tertiary traits. These designations form your Trait Archetype.

I also need to go back through all the Trait intros as I think they're rather dated.

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In other news I tweaked Tier I Spike, mostly poisonous spikes. That said, I also changed the wording of carved spikes to better specify what kind of objects it can make (e.g. anything you could roughly carve a bone cylinder into). This isn't.. exactly a buff as it is how I always ran it but I've realized there was a lot of room for interpretation there. Implying the idea of using carved spikes to create tool parts you then assemble into the tool itself was a particularly big one, I think. I mean sure, you could just use mundane starting gear for most/all of that but I found being able to carve tools on the go pretty fun when I was playing a spike(Primary) PC. Without that interpretation of Carved Spikes that PC would have had a lot less to do.

Spoiler: New Carved Spikes

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1fp - Carved Spikes
You can subtly alter your spikes, dulling them, adding sharp side edges, adding holes, and otherwise form spikes in any rough shape a bone cylinder could be carved into. This allows you to form spikes that deal bludgeoning and/or slashing damage, spikes that create a whistling sound as they move through the air, pitons, tool handles, pick axe heads, etc. You may detach these spikes from your body as a part of any action (A new spike quickly grows to replace it). This alteration does not give you proficiency with any items you create.

As for Poisonous Spikes, I just made it require Carved Spikes (so you can't take it at level 1), and changed it to 2x/rest + 1x/Rest per additional alteration instead of the reverse.

... I'm considering swapping Poisonous Spikes and Smoke Spikes tbh. Probably change how often you can use Smoke Spikes then. That would also give spikes more variety in combat as well.. yeah let's make it happen.

Yet another edit: Made the swap, and also altered Smoke Spikes to be a bit more useful out of combat.

[sallyisgreat]

Looks good. With the edit to carved spikes you might wish to clarify whether, "You may detach these spikes from your body as a part of any action (A new spike quickly grows to replace it). This alteration does not give you proficiency with any items you create," means that your alterations remain in affect for the spike you removed, and whether if they do they also apply to the new spike you grow as well, or if you could choose one. If the alterations did apply to the carved spike you could use it to create a ghetto magic item similar to the way artificers can. If you do go in that direction I assume changing the spike alterations would edit the item and removing the carved spike alteration would remove the item from existence.

[Magikeeper]

@sallyisgreat

Hrm, that did prompt me to tweak the wording of Carved Spike a little to better note when choices are made and to make the regrowth optional. Also changed Smoke Spikes to give the delayed spike a detach option.

Spoiler: tweaked Carved Spikes

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1fp - Carved Spikes
You can subtly alter your spikes as you form them: blunting them, adding sharp side edges, adding holes, and otherwise forming spikes that are in any rough shape a bone cylinder could be carved into. This allows you to form spikes that deal bludgeoning and/or slashing damage, spikes that create a whistling sound as they move through the air, pitons, tool handles, pick axe heads, etc. This alteration does not give you proficiency with any items you create. You may detach these spikes from your body as a part of any action, and may have new spikes quickly grow to replace them if you do.

As for alteration changes, as noted in the base trait detached/fired/etc spikes only last an hour and a short rest takes an hour so it'll only come up if the DM has houserules or the party is using some other spell/ability to shorten a rest (in which case they've earned the overlap). So what happens when you remove the alteration is unlikely to ever come up. Since most spike alterations say "you can form spikes that" or something similar making new alterations wouldn't apply to detached spikes.

Other than that..I guess the spikes do count as magical for passing resistance/immunity but there isn't a way for a non-ozodrin to be proficient with them. It could also be argued that non-Ozodrin can't even use ballistic spikes / goring spikes as weapons even if they've been detached, making them only usable as improvised if magical weapons. The only non-carved/tether/smoke alteration whose effect lasts longer than a round without already having rules is rooting. Rooting basically uses up the spike, if people want to pass around carved rooting spikes that wouldn't be all that strong.

I might change Deadly Spikes to having a "you wield" in there, at which point even the most permissive interpretation aka "sure, fighters are somehow auto-proficient with detached ballistic rooting spikes" would only be decent power-wise.

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So! I've been working on new opening descriptions for the Traits, to help Archetypes feel more like they do for other classes.

I think Tentacle and Spike are in a pretty decent spot:

Spoiler: T and S opening

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Tentacle
Many faiths have an origin story for the discovery of fire. But as important as that is, before it came the first grasp. The first step. The first creature to recognize that the ability to pick things up, manipulate them, and set them down elsewhere is itself a doorway to endless possibilities. Even magic could be described as just just a more esoteric way for a creature to use some part of themselves, their soul perhaps, to indirectly grasp and manipulate their surroundings.

The Tentacle trait emphasizes these simple acts, and in doing so is a trait that favors melee combat, tactile manipulation of your surroundings, and overland movement. It is one of the more offensively focused ozodrin traits – if taken as your primary your choice of Secondary traits will likely depend more on what non-combat options they bring to the table, although the Tentacle trait’s lack of ranged capabilities is also something to consider.

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Spike
Swords. Spears. Pickaxes. History is filled with pointy edges, and the Spike trait is glad to add more to the pile. In some ways the Spike trait is the least aberrant of the seven – shoving sharp edges into your enemies is a very ordinary thing to do, after all. Spike is also among the most militant of the traits, offering a more professional, soldier-like approach to getting things done. Of course, not all professional killers are orderly.

Although the Spike trait has some non-combat and maneuvering capabilities it is largely an offensively-focused trait with an emphasis on ranged combat. If taken as your Primary trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can expand your non-combat, defensive, and/or maneuvering capabilities.

Puppet/Orifice/Fin are in the right direction:

Spoiler

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Puppet
It’s good to be king... but if you want something right you should do it yourself. The Puppet trait embodies both of these sayings, offering a way of getting things done with a direct yet disposable embodiment of your will. The Puppet trait also favors the wonders of friendship, which naturally still counts if your friends are also you.

Due to its focus on creating puppets, the Puppet trait itself is somewhat lacking when it comes to violence - if taken as a your Primary Trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can expand your offensive capabilities.

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Orifice
The Orifice Trait is the most well-rounded of the seven. Non-combat, melee combat, ranged combat, the Orifice trait does a little of everything like a variety platter of delectable hors d'oeuvres . The core of the Orifice Trait, however, is definitely the act of eating. So much so that Orifice is the most difficult trait to hide – tentacles can be whips, eyes can be gems, but the act of tasting everything in sight is going to stand out no matter what your mouths look like. If taken as your Primary trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can enhanced your preferred combat style, although you might also wish to supplement the Orfice trait’s weakest area – it’s low maneuverability.

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Fin
Although ozodrin may appreciate the freedom of flesh, the fin trait truly cherishes the concept. Going where you want to go, and leaving where you want to leave. This emphasis on mobility above all else makes Fin one of the most focused of the seven traits – if taken as your Primary trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they they can expand your non-combat capabilities or how they can offer new ways to take advantage of your mobility in battle.

Eye is crying, and is only being shared to not leave it out. >.>

Spoiler: Eye

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Eye
To pierce the veil, comprehend all that lies before you, and through this comprehension bend the path ahead through will alone. In this way the Eye trait is the most mage-like of the seven traits, its capabilities dealing with information gathering, debuffing, and ranged combat. If taken as your Primary trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can expand your non-combat and maneuvering capabilities.

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Ah right, I might also be editing all of the base trait wordings to use "You can form/remove/modify additional eyes" and such instead of their current opening wording which only uses "add". Or perhaps just form/remove, still pondering. I might also specify the inability to alter your original body parts in manifest form, but it might not be needed.

[sallyisgreat]

I hadn't realized spikes only lasted an hour, its been a while since I've glanced at the spike's base trait. Its never been the trait that most interested me, so I missed that. I enjoy the fluffy intro to the traits. By the way the poisonous spikes feature says it requires carved spikes in the changelog, but isn't actually edited into the trait yet as a prerequisite. While you add these intros you might want to make a quick pass over things to check the changes in the log are all implemented and the spelling/grammar is up to snuff.

[Magikeeper]

By the way the poisonous spikes feature says it requires carved spikes in the changelog, but isn't actually edited into the trait yet as a prerequisite. While you add these intros you might want to make a quick pass over things to check the changes in the log are all implemented and the spelling/grammar is up to snuff.

It was removed again later when I swapped Poisonous Spikes and Smoke spikes. Updated change log, thanks. The log is always updated after changes so there isn't anything in them that wasn't done at some point but it's possible the reverse is true.

Spelling and Grammar passes are constant, do mention if you see anything. The biggest remaining thing in that regard is likely deciding what should be capitalized when and sticking to it. The most thorough pass will be done when moving stuff to the pdf.


EDIT: New intros!

Spoiler: Orifice and Puppet

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Orifice
The Orifice trait is the most well-rounded of the seven. Non-combat, melee combat, ranged combat, the Orifice trait does a little bit of everything like a variety platter of delectable hors d'oeuvres. Life is to be enjoyed, and the Orifice trait facilitates staying in the thick of it. Tentacles can be whips, eyes can be gems, but true gluttony is going to stand out no matter what your mouths look like so why not have some fun with it? Of course, a mouth can be quite deceptive as well, and some comforts are more easily acquired through peaceful means. Others.. are more easily acquired through violence. Do you have a preferred dish? Comfort? Battle? Knowledge? The world’s buffet has something for everyone. Satisfy yourself!

If Orifice is taken as your Primary trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can enhanced your preferred combat style. That said, you might also wish to supplement the Orfice trait’s weakest area – it’s low maneuverability.

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Puppet
Ah, the wonders of friendship. Helping others and being helped by them in return is a powerful way to move up in a world just filled to the brim with minds and hearts. But making friends can be so very hard… if only you could do so a bit more… literally. Of course, a puppet master need not be so unsociable, perhaps you simply love people so much you’d like to be several of them yourself. Pets are quite popular as well, what wizard doesn’t have a familiar by their side? Certainly not a wizard that thinks like you! Whether entertaining others, having them entertain you, or just embracing that warm feeling of collective unity is your preferred modus operandi the Puppet trait is here to help you put on a show that will never be forgotten.

Due to its focus on creating puppets, the Puppet trait itself is somewhat lacking when it comes to violence - if taken as your Primary Trait your choice of Secondary traits will likely be based on how they can expand your offensive capabilities. That said, increasing the breadth of your social capabilities might also be worth looking into.

I like these more than the tentacle/spike ones, I might revisit those.

[Magikeeper]

Spoiler: Blather about recent changes

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SO! You may have noticed I've made quite a few changes this past week. One of the major goals, beyond giving Eye more of an identity / things to do besides look at things and deal damage, was to deal with most of the cases where a trait had a tier above I with 5 alterations. All Traits have 5 alterations at Tier I, but 4 at all others. Most exceptions to this were because one or more of the alterations were just not very good and/or extremely niche and was more of a "you should really just be able to do this at this level" and the like. I believe we're down to only 2 exceptions now - Orifice Tier II (Which is not changing, Swallow/Controlled digestion was mostly split because its just too much rules text for one alteration) and Fin Tier IV. The recent changes did heavily alter Orifice though, especially the saliva/breath/sound/tasting stuff.

An example would be Grasping Limbs - for multiclass reasons Tentacle can't wield weapons at level 1 but by level 6 just giving it to them wouldn't be an issue. More importantly, a lot of neat character designs need hands. That 1fp was more often than not a tax for chars that want hands. I combined Grasping with Deadly Limbs and changed it to Dexterous Limbs IIRC. The ability to use MultiAssault with weapons was lost as a part of that, might add that back.

I've currently been looking into reducing the amount of X per rest stuff as it had gotten a bit excessive. Might be good now.

Okay, so what I'm pondering now is a significant change to the early Puppet trait. I already combined Missing Strings and Lengthy Cords to form the Tier I Shifting Strings (5x TII alts -> 4x). Now I am thinking of replacing the Tier I Lethal Puppeteering with:

Spoiler: Deadly Coordination Tier I version

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1fp – Deadly Coordination
You can, as an action, have one of your puppets Oppose or Support a creature within 5’ of them:

• Oppose. The next attack roll made against the creature has advantage. If that attack hits, the creature takes an additional 1d6 damage.
• Support. The next attack roll made against the creature has disadvantage. If the attack misses, and the attacker is within 5’ of the puppet, the attacker takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage.

Each puppet can only be used with this ability once per round. If you have enough actions you may, however, have multiple puppets Support or Oppose the same creature; the damage stacks.

Furthermore, you may count the Help action as a Puppet Trait alteration-granted ability for the purposes of using it with MultiAssault and Focus Surge.

Edit: Tweaked Support to be any attack roll, and specified that the attacker has to be within 5' of puppet to take damage. So if you want to stand behind a creature and support them, you can, but it is less effective.

And the current Tier 2 Deadly Coordination with:

Spoiler: Butchering Crew

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2fp – Butchering Crew (Requires Deadly Coordination)
Whenever the ability granted by your Deadly Coordination alteration would deal damage, you may add your Dexterity or Charisma modifier to the damage dealt. If multiple puppets Support or Oppose the same creature, this damage stacks.

Edit: May slightly tweak wording and such of the above but it'd be close to that.

On one hand, this is very in-theme and different from what other characters are doing. On the other hand, this means primary(Puppet) Ozodrin do not gain proficiency with any kind of attack until level 6 unless they have a Tentacle, Orifice, or Fin secondary. I'm also not sure letting Butchering Crew add Charisma makes sense. I'm also not sure it makes sense how these puppets that have no attacking ability on their own are dealing 1d4 damage. I can sort of imagine it, at least?

Any input on this or other ways to go about it would be appreciated.

Edit.. ?3?: Swapped FP costs. Although 1fp feels kinda cheap for the new Deadly Coordination it works much better for low level puppet ozodrin, it's not something that'll cause lvl 1 multiclass issues, and for other ozodrin abilities it's often better to just attack twice. It is nice for attacking once and then setting up for an ally, yes, but 1fp seems enough for that? Puppet Secondaries could use another alteration that's potentially worth taking in some situations off-Primary and the new Deadly Coordination fits the bill.
Edit 4: Damage 1d4 -> 1d6.

[Qwertystop]

I haven't played a Puppeteer Ozodrin, but I do like the feel of these. It fits well with Puppet filling a support role in combat, and the extra damage can be things like "get the enemy to stumble into the attack" and "nudge a swing into just the right place" – basically crits, but less.

[Magikeeper]

Pms and otherwise, it seems like the change is liked. I increased the 1d4 to 1d6.


So, I've returned to pondering whether to let Razor fin use "Strength(Athletics) or Dexterity(Acrobatics)" instead of just athletics. It certainly makes sense - fins are finesse weapons and I can imagine Razor fin being done in a style that favors dexterity. I would need to change Unfettered Motions and Immaculate Grace if I did so but am likely changing those two again anyway.

One thing it does is make Fin much more SAD - there's only one ability in all of Fin that uses saving throws*, so going Dex-based is the usual choice. Athletics-based Razor makes it more difficult to have good fin attacks, good AC, and a high razor success rate on the same ozodrin. On the other hand, athletics is a generally more useful skill than acrobatics and Fin does not give psuedo-prof in acrobatics. If Razor usually succeeds lvl 6-11 Fin ozodrin have the highest DPR of any trait primary by a fair margin. Assuming there are 3+ enemies, anyway, which is pretty common.

I'm also considering changing Razor Fin to be an action usable once per round instead of a bonus action. The skill option buff could be easily added in that case, and Fin's DPR would be more comparable to other traits in most combats. Sprinting Fins might be changed to using a bonus action if I did that, and would likely have its damage buff nerfed to match.

Changing Razor's 2d6 -> 1d8 or something is also an option (would probably buff Sprinting's bonus to Razor in that case).

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*if I thought of a way to rewrite smashing fins it'd change to a "None" in the saving throw department. How has Smashing Fins been, btw?

[Qwertystop]

Pms and otherwise, it seems like the change is liked. I increased the 1d4 to 1d6.


So, I've returned to pondering whether to let Razor fin use "Strength(Athletics) or Dexterity(Acrobatics)" instead of just athletics. It certainly makes sense - fins are finesse weapons and I can imagine Razor fin being done in a style that favors dexterity. I would need to change Unfettered Motions and Immaculate Grace if I did so but am likely changing those two again anyway.

One thing it does is make Fin much more SAD - there's only one ability in all of Fin that uses saving throws*, so going Dex-based is the usual choice. Athletics-based Razor makes it more difficult to have good fin attacks, good AC, and a high razor success rate on the same ozodrin. On the other hand, athletics is a generally more useful skill than acrobatics and Fin does not give psuedo-prof in acrobatics. If Razor usually succeeds lvl 6-11 Fin ozodrin have the highest DPR of any trait primary by a fair margin. Assuming there are 3+ enemies, anyway, which is pretty common.

I'm also considering changing Razor Fin to be an action usable once per round instead of a bonus action. The skill option buff could be easily added in that case, and Fin's DPR would be more comparable to other traits in most combats. Sprinting Fins might be changed to using a bonus action if I did that, and would likely have its damage buff nerfed to match.

Changing Razor's 2d6 -> 1d8 or something is also an option (would probably buff Sprinting's bonus to Razor in that case).

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*if I thought of a way to rewrite smashing fins it'd change to a "None" in the saving throw department. How has Smashing Fins been, btw?

I tried to use Smashing Fins and it was occasionally useful at low levels, but that was with a Dex/Con build and no strength bonus. The shove-away was only rarely in a position to even potentially be useful (one kill on a catwalk, a few environmental hazards), but the bonus-action withdraw was nice. Might have tried to use it more if I had a higher Strength.

Razor Fins taking an action instead of a bonus action... might situationally be a buff, actually. If you're capping it to one use per round so you can't double up with Multiassault, you lose the "Focus Surge to double Razor Fins" option, but it opens up lots of other bonus-action enhancers – Adaptive Musculature at 6th level is one useful one for improving your hit rate, but then at 11th level you get Poisonous Spikes and/or Energy Generating Flesh. Or just combo in Swift Fins to hit more targets. All those would previously require consuming a use of Focus Surge. That change trades off "more attacks per round" for "more ability to stack enhancements onto what's probably your biggest attack".

On the whole, though, I think it's a good change – I don't think there's anything else in the Ozodrin that just straight up makes an attack as a bonus action? It's usually adding extra effects to other attacks, or doing non-damaging things. It's a weird mechanical inversion, a Fin Ozodrin could use all their actions on running and their bonus to attack, as it stands (and in fact that was the very case that you were worried about, a while ago).

[babus]

This post is a long time coming, but the game has been relatively leisurely in its pace. We're actually still level 2 (which is what we started at), but will be level 3 soon, and it has been a good experience so far. Some of these may be repeats of things mentioned in PM. Some of this is direct feedback from playing, and some of this is a commentary on recent updates since I started playing.

Observations on Social Ozodrin:
1. The greater freedom on describing features makes the Ozodrin much less Masquerade Dependent. Having reviewed comments by others, I wouldn't necessarily say Worldy Guise is worthless as is, but it is campaign dependent. For example, the setting I'm currently playing in would see fleshy strings emerging from a young woman's body as a sign that she was a monster and execute her. It works best in places where being a goblin would get you chased out of town, and less well in places where being a many mouthed tentacle puppet master is labeled 'eccentric'. Hiding such features is also its own sort of fun, but telling my GM when I'm changing back and forth between my Worldly Guise happens a lot when the possibility of being searched exists.
2. Shifting Strings sounds wonderful and is now a very interesting selection to spend FP on for multiple reasons. I feel like there should be some sort of downside to having the strings invisible, but in general, it's super neat to be able to keep your puppets in a box you carry around with you.
Favorite Social Thing I Did: Put on a puppet show by creating a large number of puppets spontaneously, while still hiding my nature by doing the adding and removing of the Base Features out of view.

Observations on Combat Ozodrin:
1. Even before the update made Puppet entirely support (at least as far as standard attacks go), it was clear that picking a Secondary Feature that granted a form of damaging attack as a base feature (ie Tentacle) was somewhat necessary. Lacking even Simple Weapon Proficiencies puts it in a very unique place, and the new Deadly Coordination, while one of my new favorite features on the Ozodrin, formalizes that dependency. Had I at least the option of falling back on a semi-effective dagger proficiency while alone would make it feel less inherently necessary to take a specific Secondary Feature, allowing for more combinations.
2. I really like the surface area economy of the Puppet Primary Ozodrin. By which I mean the increased vulnerability for being able to affect more of the battlefield. It's terrifying and tends to punish me, but it really makes the class feel unique in playstyle, rather than just in flavor. A+ idea, great implementation, and so far, I haven't died horribly in battle from the increased risk. Later options to help mitigate that risk look neat, but it'll be a while.
3. I actually liked the way the old Puppet attacks worked, but I like the new concept even better, and I feel like it captures the essence of what made the old-style work. Going to try it in the next fight with GM permission.
4. Current implementation of Deadly Coordination and Butchering Crew makes Puppet Primary an incredibly interesting take on a SAD class because being able to deal your Charisma mod as damage means you could go straight Con/Cha. The major downside is that you'd then require an ally to be able to deal damage. I also think that being able to deal your Charisma mod as makes sense, as you're putting on a performance to confuse or otherwise frustrate the enemy's efforts. Making it use Dex instead of Cha would solve the 'issue' of a SAD Puppet Primary, but I feel like requiring allies to deal damage is a more than fair counterbalance.
5. I was getting hit a lot, though the monsters were rolling pretty high to my recollection. d8 Hit Die while spread out so is slightly suss. Further data collection needed.

DM's Thoughts I am Passing Along:
(Disclaimer: These are her own opinions, and I don't necessarily agree or disagree with them)
1. That giving the Ozodrin the same Proficiencies of at least the Wizard is necessary, especially when taking into consideration the Worldly Guise's lack of options to defend oneself without immediately revealing what you are.
2. That level 3 is too early for attacks to constantly count as magic, and that it should be delayed somewhat.
3. She suggested a possible alternative as "Level 3 you can, say, add a single t1 ability to your base form that hides when not in use and doesn't require an activation and comes from your primary (I.E. Tentacle with hair spikes can just suddenly run up walls with their hair. )"
4. That Constitution and Wisdom might make more sense for saves than Constitution and Charisma because Wisdom covers things like not going mad. It was more of an idle thought in this case, however, as she's aware that 5e has classes take a Common and Uncommon save.

Edit: I hadn't realized so much work had been done on the class since I last checked it.

I haven't looked over all of it, but Rumbling Domain is the coolest thing I've seen and my jaw hit the floor after I read it. Even with all its limitations, it's just such a perfect Spectacle, and exactly the sort of thing I'd fight to reach level 16 for a chance to use. Just absolutely amazing. It is not too much. It's a cool reward for making it so far in a game and just bursts with creative potential. It's also the sort of thing that really doesn't work thematically unless you're late level, so I'm not even disappointed that the player will have to wait so long to get it.

Also a huge fan of the fluff changes to Eye's attack. The reality sucking straw had me laughing.

[Magikeeper]

@babus

> Puppet Self gives +5 HP, which was intended to help with the low HD issue early Puppet has. Has that not been enough?
> I think the Con/Cha puppet is fine, its AC isn't going to be very good without dex. It also lets it work better with an Eye secondary.
> On the removal of worldly - the biggest thing was that you could and still can just unmake all of your basic alterations as an action and/or bonus action. All physical changes, aside from the level 10 ability, are either coming from basic alterations or from abilities that add new options when altering your basic alterations (e.g. Sizing Flesh). So you could always return to looking normal without using worldly. Is that currently unclear in the text?

@babus' DM
> Giving Ozodrin a few weapon profs does solve a lot of issues, so I've finally given them a weaker wizard list (quarterstaff -> club) now. If an Ozodrin wants a melee attack better than using a dagger they'll need to pick up one of the archetypes that gives such a thing. I do think there are other ways to disguise some of the alterations but that doesn't work in all cases.
> Moving Unearthly Power elsewhere means most low-level Ozodrin archetype combinations have no way to overcome non-magical immunity (can't make silver tentacles, after all). Ozodrin don't get Extra Attack, so only Eye/Puppet/Orifice would be able to deal damage with MultiAssault at level 5. Primary(Spike) Ozodrin have it the worst, a level 5 monk would have it MUCH better then them. That's not even taking into account the possibility of mages with the magic weapon spell.
>> As for what to swap it with, level 4/5/6 class abilities can't be moved, so if I moved it I'd probably swap Unearthly Power with Colluding Anatomy at level 7. Other classes.. or at least Paladins get some anti-disease/poison stuff early on and Colluding is just advantage instead of immunity so that'd be fine.
>> Granted, I could have Unearthly Power and MultiAssualt be the same level, which would create room for an entirely new class feature (reaction umaking of alterations or something?), but I had been trying to keep to 1x class feature per level. I guess in retrospect there are more classes that have 2x feature levels past lvls 1-3 than I thought.
If I did make a new level 3 it'd probably be something like

Spoiler

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Worldly Guise
Beginning at 3rd level, you can use your reaction to unform any number of your Basic alterations.

Furthermore, you may add your proficiency bonus to any ability check made disguise your alterations and their use as mere objects. For example, pretending your tentacles are whips or your ballistic spikes are some kind of exotic dart. If you would already be able to add your proficiency bonus to such a check, such as due to being proficient with the related tool or skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled. This doubling does not stack with Expertise.

I originally had it as "all" basic alterations just be clear, but some Ozodrin will be forming their clothes via the Flesh trait so let's just.. leave some discretion there.

On the saves, aside from the Major/Minor I feel the last 10 levels work well with Charisma fluff-wise. 3.5e Ozodrin did have good will saves though, yes.

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Edit: I thought more about the Neo Worldly Guise. Although I liked it, I felt the main issue is that it wouldn't fit all ozodrin. Now, some classes have "pick a feature:" going on, so I could do that, but the ability is too verbose. If I dropped the reaction unforming though, I could do this:

Spoiler: Guise

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Worldly Guise
At 3rd level, you gain one of the following features of your choice:

• Blending In. You may add your proficiency bonus to any ability check made disguise your alterations and their use as something ordinary, or at least not monstrous. For example, pretending your tentacles are whips. This ability cannot help you mimic anything specific, like a renown whip.
• Standing Out. You may add your proficiency bonus to any ability check made to look especially monstrous or otherworldly. This ability cannot help you mimic anything specific, like a legendary monster.

In either case, if you would already be able to add your proficiency bonus to such a check, such as due to being proficient with the related tool or skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled. This doubling does not stack with Expertise.

Which seems reasonable and would work for ozodrin in general.

[sandmote]

This looks really fascinating, although I'm not familiar with the 3.5e version.

Considering the number of updates you've done, I'd like to go though and try to catch things that slipped through from earlier versions or haven't been updated to fit 5e language. I'll go through the base class and Eye trait to test if this is helpful. If you'd like me to cover more of it please let me know: otherwise I'll avoid cluttering up the thread.

Trait Archetype notes
Although this is entirely a concern about futureproofing the concept, I'd specify you get four tertiary traits in some way. That way, if someone writes up a bunch of additional Trait (Tail, Chitin, and Discharge come to mind as hypotheticals) it gives an individual PC more options total but not in the middle of a single game. I realize that's a major principle of the class, but at some point I think there needs to be a limit to the number of Base alterations and backup options available to a high level PC.

Separate from the above, I think the explanation of the Archetype Form Point Restriction isn't written in the simplest to explain manner. Currently you suggest counting up the fp you've spent across a bunch of Traits, check them against a number, then add them to the fp you've spent on multiple other Traits. I would instead say that you must spend "at least half your fp on your primary trait, rounded up," and can spend "no more than one quarter your fp on advanced tertiary traits, rounded down." If I understood you correctly this has the same limits, but I think it'll be easier for someone using this class for the first time to check they've done it correctly.

Eye Trait:
Base Alteration: Ignoring disadvantage on perception checks made in dim light is a bit odd. It stacks with darkvision in 5e, but if you don't have darkvision already is actually weaker. Maybe give darkvision/increased range on existing darkvision instead, and provide devil's sight (or something mechanically identical) as an advanced alteration?

Spoiler: Tier I Advanced Alterations

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Listening Eyes: 10 minutes or a bonus action feels weird to me. Maybe write it as a passive buff and add "you can suppress or resume the effect as a bonus action," on the end?

Heightened Senses: 5e features typically list a maximum range to special forms of sight.

Splintering Glare: It should either be "(d20 + Proficiency Bonus + Charisma modifier)" or "using you Charisma modifier." Non-lethal also isn't a term in 5e, so I'd maybe specifiy "you can attempt to knock out a creature using this attack," instead. see page 198 of the PH for that rule.

Disorienting Glare: in 5e features don't stack with themselves (or another feature of the same name created by a different creature) by default.

Efficient Pathways[1]: "As a reaction," is the usual verbiage, and it should probably be "or increase your AC to 18 against a single attack," for that last bit.

Spoiler: Tier II Advanced Alterations

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Eldritch Sensitivity: I'm not clear what information this would grant a player. I'd steal the language from the Detect magic spell: "your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic," then add a similar reading for anything alive. Also copy the section about the aura's school of magic if that applies.

Consuming Glare: For simplicities' sake, I'd just say it "provides enough nourishment to sustain you for one day." Similarly, replace the comment about non-lethal damage with "and cannot be used to knock out a creature."

Framing Glare[1]: I don't see it specify the target disappears, where they go, who decided it deals damage, or that you must see the target, and the duration could be instantaneous if they're next in the initiative order. I'm just going to take a stab at rewriting it:

"An action, choose a creature you can see within 60 feet, which must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save the creature take 3d8 psychic damage and is banished to a harmless demiplane until the start of your next turn, when it reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. On a failed save, the creature takes half a much damage, and isn't banished. A willing creature can choose to fail this saving throw. When you use your Framing Glare, you can choose to reduce the damage dealt to 0."

Murmuring Glare: the verbiage is "on a failed save," and "on a success" iff a success still does anything. "Magical effect," isn't a term in 5e. Maybe specify "the effect is suppressed while in an antimagic field, and ends if Dispel Magic or Remove curse is cast on the creature."

Spoiler: Tier III Advanced Alterations

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Nous Sight: Lot a 3.5e lingo. You gain "20 feet of blindsight." The last part should just be "creatures within your Nous Sight have disadvantage on Charisma (Deception) checks to disguise their emotional state from you."

Encroaching Gaze: Descriptions of telepathy distinguishes between sending and understanding in 5e. Maybe try "The creature understands your speech only if the two of you share a language, but you can magically communicate simple ideas, emotions, and images with any creature that can understand a language."

Parallel Pathways: I don't see a "Dissolving Glare." Otherwise I'd try this:

"You can use any Eye Trait alteration or take the Search action as a bonus action. The Search action counts as an ability granted by this trait alteration for the purposes of your Ozodrin features."

Far Reaching Gaze: I don't see any Dissolving or Binding Glares listed.

Spoiler: Tier VI Advanced Alterations

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Unbound Reception: Lucky lets you reroll a die, not add a die. I also don't know of what rule explains how to interpret an "additional" die. If have disadvantage, do I have to take the lowest of the three?

Decentralized Perception: Maybe "you can see from the body part's location as if you were there," or something? Note "obscuring objects" isn't defined; in 5e you specify allowed types of special senses to explain what is lightly or heavily obscured instead, because this depends on special senses like darvision.

Delving Sight: "Otherwise" should probably be "on a failed save," and there isn't a "magical effect," defined by 5e.

Rejecting Glare: Just say "other creatures and object have resistance to all damage dealt by the target." Is this intended to let you target a creature you can't see?

[1] Limited Use Features
Variations of the following show up regularly:

"After using this ability twice, you cannot do so again until after completing a short or long rest. You may make this alteration multiple times, increasing the number of times you can use a reaction this way before needing to complete a short or long rest by one each time."

I think the 5e language is closer to the following:

"You can use this ability twice and gain one additional use for every two additional fp you spend on this alteration. You regain all uses at the end of a short or long rest."

This helps with how in 5e you only apply the strongest version of any effect with the same name.

[Magikeeper]

Oh, absolutely go ahead with that! Not being previously familiar with it is a plus. Among other things, you caught some major update failures with Far Reaching / Parallel Processing mentioning renamed/removed alterations. Err, I mean failures from recent revisions to the 5e version - the change log is now two posts long because it hit max capacity over the years. I'm also reminded that a different trait should be moved to the first spot PDF, Eye's kind of weird.

@Magical effect: A term anti-magical-effect abilities use but not a term abilities use to describe themselves. It's almost exclusive to the Eye trait, and is due to forming alterations being stated as being mundane in the Manifest Form description. I have considered dropping the magical effect stuff, as it should be obvious those effects are magical, but would likely need to tweak some wordings to better emphasis the possibility of an alteration-granted ability being magical. Which.. I probably will do, yeah. Honestly, having the forming of alterations be non-magical is much less important in 5e than it was in 3e.


Responses:
Trait Archetype: I think if anyone wants to add more traits they should do it as an alternate class feature that swaps places with a preexisting trait. I'll think about the suggested restriction rewording, that section is currently rather verbose on top of everything else.

Eye Trait:
Base Alteration: Low light vision is pretty weak, yes. 360' vision doesn't mean much mechanically but could be useful RP-wise. Darkvision.. at level 6 an Ozodrin gets access to all the base alterations so they'd auto-get darkvision and I'm not sure about that. I do think this is the weakest base trait, outside of groups that utilize the 360'.

Spoiler: Tier I Advanced Alterations

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Listening Eyes: I had this be 10 minutes for what I imagine is the reason why detect magic requires an action to see auras: So the table only has to keep this ability in mind when the player is actively using it. It's a strange effect. Unless the PC really wants it up 24/7, in which case they're liable to remember it themselves, giving it a duration prevents it staying on and burdening the DM when the player isn't even thinking about it. That said, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Heightened Senses: Although 5E usually lists maximum ranges, it does not do so for See Invisibility, which has infinite range and is where the effect is being taken from.

Splintering Glare: Hrm. I'll look more into the attack roll wordings. The other alterations just use the weapon rules, so this is an eye-specific issue. It is true that the word non-lethal isn't used anywhere in the knock-out description.. but on the other hand I'm concerned that "attempt to knock out" will confuse players (and DMs) that aren't familiar with the knockout rule. I was actually in a game two days ago where I noted we should aim to knock out a target and people were confused until I specified non-lethal. EDIT: I suppose the main issue here is that Non-lethal is no longer a game term, but it is by far the better understood English-language term IME. Referring to non-lethal and then explaining what that choice means leaves no room for confusion. I'm not sure any current D&D effect uses "attempt to knock out" or mentions the knock-out rule outside of the rule itself.

Disorienting Glare: It is true they normally don't do so and there is no need for reminder text. This is a case where I felt like a wanted to make *very* sure the player and their DM remembers that rule. EDIT: Eh, I think I'll remove it though, it's pretty obvious since it says "next".

Efficient Pathways[1]: Should be as a reaction, yeah. On the AC.. a quick search for players confused about barkskin suggests the reminder text might be worth keeping.

Spoiler: Tier II Advanced Alterations

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Eldritch Sensitivity: Hrm. Might need to go back over the wording for the first section if it's that unclear. As for the second ability, it's already using the "any visible creature.." wording from detect magic? Maybe I should remove the and/or, it's just to note that they can tell the difference between nonmagical, magical, alive, not alive, and all combinations of that. The lack of school of magic was an intentional drop, since they're not spellcasters.

Consuming Glare: There's a TI Orifice alteration that can be triggered off of food consumption, the specific wording is due to that. The current wording is.. verbose and I'm not thrilled about it but changing it would be tricky.

Framing Glare: The target doesn't go anywhere - they can do whatever they want during their turn, but at the end of it they go back to where they were when you used the ability. Like you saved their position and then forcefully reloaded the save at the end of their next turn. It triggers at the end of their turn, not the beginning. It's like a delayed teleport aimed at wherever the target currently is. I will probably use the "reduce damage to 0" wording though, that's quite a bit cleaner than the convoluted current situation where they only take damage if they try to resist even if it's flavorful. It should specify a sight requirement, yeah.

Murmuring Glare: I specify it does nothing on a success as I've gotten the impression that many tables would argue over whether or not the target creature becomes aware of the effect on a success and this ability is unreliable enough even if it succeeds that it would be safe to let it work in social situations (unlike suggestion). It does "nothing" is meant to mean it does literally nothing instead of alerting the creature as to what happened. This is another case of reminder text the ability shouldn't need but might still be useful. There are other ways this could be conveyed, granted, including ones that would be more to the point.

Spoiler: Tier III Advanced Alterations

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Nous Sight: Will tweak blindsight wording. As for the last part, it also effect wisdom (Perception) checks and was written that way mostly to explain that hiding is still possible. Whether stealth works vs blindsight is rather unclear in the rules IIRC and a passive ability that auto-negates stealth would be extremely powerful in a PCs hands. It should say Stealth instead of hide though. Granted, just noting the disadvantage on Stealth/Deception would imply it isn't automatic so that is an option. I'll think about that part.

Encroaching Gaze: Might change that, yeah. EDIT: Changed it to "If you do not share a language with the creature you can still communicate using simple concepts, emotions, and images." Which is also slightly less text as well! Being able to speak with animals and weird otherworldly creatures that don't speak anything is intentional. One of those is more on-theme than the other, but animals is definitely going to come up more often.

Parallel Pathways: Dissolving became splintering, need to fix that, thanks. I am iffy on not specifying more directly what Search action counts for & why it matters.

Far Reaching Gaze: Yeah, that's an update failure, good catch.

Spoiler: Tier VI Advanced Alterations

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Unbound Reception: Lucky rolls an additional die, it is not a reroll on any site listing it I've seen (Did it get errate'd somewhere, I'm doing another search but that doesn't seem to be the case..?). That exact question is one many ask about Lucky, which is less clear in its wording than UR. Lucky says "You choose which of the d20s", which according to Sage Advice means Lucky turns disadvantage into best of three as per RAW. I had hoped to avoid this issue (and the absurd disadvantage -> super advantage case) by noting that you can choose to use it instead of what you would "normally" use. If you have disadvantage, you would normally use the lower die of the two you rolled. So you can use the UR die or the lower die. If the wording is still unclear I'm open to suggestions but I spent a fair amount of time reading about reroll feats and Lucky specifically for this one.

Decentralized Perception: Hrm, could tweak this a bit. As long as I keep the box example whatever wording I go with should be fine, so may as well make it less wordy.

Delving Sight: I used otherwise because.. it made sense in a previous version of that ability >.>. Yeah, it should be on a failure.

Rejecting Glare: Will add sight restriction. I forget why I used the halving wording (RG's been unchanged for years), that change seems like it'd be clearer.

Limited Use Features - It varies in 5e as well, the current wording was expanded from the Action Surge wording. I'll consider it, although I prefer the multi-take wording to specifying X per Y additional FP as I think multi-taking is more quickly grasped. Also, there are some alterations that can only be taken one additional time. I think that's down to 3 cases though, I've been trying to reduce the number of X per rest abilities in general as of late.

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In other news, moved Unearthly Power to lvl 5, added the new version of Worldly Guise to lvl 3.

EDIT: I'm editing in more commentary regarding what I changed for the stuff I mentioned I'd look into later as I go over the more complicated changes that involve more than just a quick typo fixing.

[babus]

@Magikeeper

Puppet Self: It's enough so far. I'm just saying I'll need more data to really say, as it was closer than I'd like. We have another fight coming up very soon, which is where I'll get a chance to get smacked a bit again and test out the new Deadly Coordination, as my DM approved me making the switch.
SAD Puppet: Glad you like it. Looks like a fun sort of build. Good note on pairing it with Eye.
Wordly: Ah, yes, I see the issue now. I think maybe I was just missing that because of preconceptions. New Worldly Guise looks wonderful and while some people might prefer getting effective Expertise in Intimidation, there are a lot of fun tricks to be had with Blending In. I like the option of a choice, and just as much as it is a personal choice on the player, it could also be a good distinction when taking into consideration the game type. A dungeon crawl Ozodrin is probably going to want Standing Out. (Minor note of possible spelling error with 'a renown whip', rather than 'a renowned whip')

DM:
Wizard Weapon Proficiency: We both love this. It being only the basics is perfect, as it should only ever be a fallback in emergencies.
Unearthly Power: Wonderful idea to combine with MultiAssault, and +1 on it being fine for there to be more than one feature per level, as it is, as you noted, more common in 5e. My DM still complains that MultiAssault is not instead called Aberrant Assault, but that isn't really mechanical feedback.

I originally had it as "all" basic alterations just be clear, but some Ozodrin will be forming their clothes via the Flesh trait so let's just.. leave some discretion there.

Agreed. Also, this made me laugh.

Saves: Understandable, and the Level 10+ Feature thing is noted.

Edit: As a fun thing, I have gotten together a group of about 5 players to run an All Ozodrin Campaign on Tuesday mornings in Discord, so will see how that goes. Doing text for the sake of keeping good records.

Second Edit: While it hasn't come up yet, because my own character is only Tetacle secondary, the DM has agreed to let me treat Tentacle (Strength) as if it said Tentacle (Strength or Dexterity). Is this likely to break anything important?

[Magikeeper]

Renowned is the correct term, thanks.

Second Edit: While it hasn't come up yet, because my own character is only Tetacle secondary, the DM has agreed to let me treat Tentacle (Strength) as if it said Tentacle (Strength or Dexterity). Is this likely to break anything important?

Tugging Tendrils and Space Clutching Limbs are the only tentacle alterations that deal with saving throws. So, not particularly.

MultiAssault - The name is a variation of Multiattack, the common monster ability MultiAssault is pretty much the PC version of.

5 Ozodrin Campaign: Sounds great! Edit: Fin changes made Edit 2: One more early fin change (Smashing -> Whirling), also some of the Eye slight wording tweaks filtered in I would note I'm going to be reworking Tier II/III Fin trait pretty heavily soon. Well, it'll still be the same battle style but the numbers / action types / etc will be moved around as it currently has a noticeably higher DPR in most combats than other traits. Razor fin will have a Dex option, making strength even less worthwhile for Fin Ozodrin. Considering tweaking Smashing Fins so it doesn't need to involve a saving throw (at which point Fin would become Fin(None) instead of Fin(Strength)).

BIG EDIT: Hello people checking this, the most recent post I've made in this thread, every day to see if I've added new edits. I like to pretend you exist~

I'm thinking about removing Coordinated Tentacles, moving Terpsichorean Limbs to Tier I, and changing the following alterations as so:

Spoiler

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1fp - Tugging Tendrils
You may, as an action, choose a creature within the reach of your tentacles. An unwilling creature can make a Strength(Athletics) or Dexterity(Acrobatics) check opposed by your Strength(Athletics) check. If they win the contest, this effect does nothing. Otherwise, you may pull the target up to 10’ to another location that’s also within the reach of your tentacles. If the target is currently restrained this effect does nothing.

2fp – Terpsichorean Limbs
The coordination between your tentacles reaches even greater heights, their movements shifting like an intricate dance well-suited to adjusting your stance and deflecting forceful blows. This capability increases your armor class by 2 whenever you benefit from your Unarmored Defense class feature and are not wearing a shield.

Furthermore, you may, as a bonus action, use such motions for guiding attention as well. Enemy creatures that can see you have disadvantage on Wisdom(Perception) checks, and cannot make opportunity attacks, while within the reach of your tentacles. This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

Ability to fill in the hole created in tentacle Tier II:

1fp – Artful Tendrils
Your tentacles are well-poised to be tweaked and shifted on the spot to maximize their capability for fine, subtle motions. Whenever you make a Dexterity ability check while using a Tool or a Dexterity (Slight of Hand) check you may, as a bonus action, roll a d6 and add the result to the check. This capability does not lend itself well to mixing with other forms of guidance; if another ability or spell would add an additional die's result to the roll, such as the Guidance spell, use whichever additional die had the highest result.

Furthermore, you may count using the Slight of Hand skill as a Tentacle trait alteration-granted ability for the purpose of using it with MultiAssault and Focus Surge.

[sallyisgreat]

I exist~

You said you were trying to get rid of the PC ability save DCs based on Constitution for first impressions, so after awhile are you gonna change spike?

[babus]

Seeing how active you are on the class is actually super motivating for the people I've had make characters. I have not gotten anyone to take Fin Primary yet, but surprise surprise, someone is actually trying Flesh Primary. And they already have many thoughts, which I will convey once I have them in a summarized form. It's actually good stuff I think, but long conversations take time to make readable.

I wanted to ask if there are any specific playtesting encounters you'd feel interested in seeing me run the group through. Whether it be specific enemies, certain challenges, or even just hitting the party with certain spells. The current makeup is:

Spoiler: Ozo Party

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Player 1
Primary: Orifice
Secondary: Tentacle, Flesh
Player 2
Primary: Eye
Secondary: Puppet, Fin
Player 3
Primary: Tentacle
Secondary: Puppet, Fin
Player 4
Primary: Spike
Secondary: Eye, Flesh
Player 5
Primary: Flesh
Secondary: ???
Player 6
Class: Bard

If all goes well, we'll run session one this Tuesday, starting at level 1, staying there a few sessions, and then maybe having them jump to 4ish.

[Magikeeper]

@sallyisgreat: The number of saving throw alterations has fallen to the point where I can likely remove the general saving throw case - move that bit into Eye and for all the other alterations just have them note the 8 + Prof + Mod like subclasses do for Barbarian and such. That'll resolve spike's issue as I think poison should still be con-based. Edit: Aside from Eye, Orifice and Tentacle only have one ability that uses saving throws, and Puppet/Spike only have two.

@babus - Orifice can't use Ravenous Maws until level 2, which is a big change for them. The potential for mass focus surge is liable to result in some crazy first rounds. Other than that, not particularly. A variety of challenges is good. Three sessions in, the bard has changed his name to Lovecraft.

Also, I made some sizable changes to Tentacle today (well, they were mostly shown in the previous edits above). I think it improves low-level tentacle overall, especially when it comes to survivability.

Upcoming Eye stuff is just cleaning up the wording of some things, I don't think I'm planning on changing any mechanics at this time. Aside from adding sight requirements to some of the glares that are missing them.

Qwertystop is playing a Fin primary, as it were.

[Kerleth]

So, many, updates!!! I don't really have anything of value to add. I just really love this project and want to say what a great job you're doing. It is so cool to see this idea still getting love after all this time. If this thing ever makes it to the DM's guild in a pretty pdf, you'd have one buyer for sure.

[Magikeeper]

@Kerleth: Thanks!

For quite awhile now, I’ve been thinking of the alterations that can be made multiple times in exchange for additional uses. Specifically, removing the ability to do that. For the ones that only grant one extra use it’s not worth it outside of using it with Trait Overflow. Even then, it’s not worth applying the alteration more than twice outside of the specific case of preparing Magic Ripping Tentacles / Magic Consuming Flesh multiple times before fighting a spellcaster (and even then it’d only be like 3 times).

For most traits this change likely won’t be noticed. I imagine the only two it’ll be an issue for are Eye and Flesh. Well, puppet needs to do something for the charm.

I am considering having Eye use a second resource, perhaps change Efficient Pathways to enable access to it. So it would be even more mage-like. I’m not sure sure about that, however… maybe I could just increase the uses of framing/murmuring to 3..?

As for Flesh.. I don’t know. I was considering having it use the expending Hit Die mechanic more but hit dice operate on a long-rest timescale and alterations operate on a short-rest one. That’s iffy. Might just increase initial uses for Energy/Magic eating to 2x/rest.

I might also change Trait Overflow to something else as a part of these changes, depends on how many X per rest abilities remain.

[sallyisgreat]

I know that the current wording of aberrant metamorphosis is that your former creature type is replaced with aberration, but there are a few recent 5e options that deal with type, such as the UA gothic lineages, that have characters with multiple creature types. Will you keep the "replace" wording? If so you should be aware that the current ruling is that if one of your creature types would allow you to be affected by a spell or effect then it effects you even if your other type wouldn't be affected. A humanoid/construct could be affected by cure wounds, and a humanoid/undead could be affected by turn undead. If you do rewrite the trait so that the aberration creature type is added, rather than replacing another type, then you may wish to write in another benefit for the trait, since you don't gain any immunity to effects that target humanoids, and only gain additional vulnerability to effects that specifically target aberrations, which lack any positive effects that apply only to their creature type.

[Magikeeper]

Although there are few ways for PCs to be non-humanoid entirely, it isn't impossible in 5E. Dual typing would turn it into a purely negative ability and outside of that UA document it isn't common enough for me to feel like we need to do it that way. It's a level 10 ability after all. So it'll be staying replace.

[Magikeeper]

Lot of changes! In fact, let's just copy paste the change log..

Spoiler: recent changes

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2/1/2021
EYE:
> Added a sight restriction to several alterations that should have them.

2/4/2021
EYE:
> Rewrote Framing Gaze to be clearer. Among other things, I gave up the half damage on a failed save as that made the wording much simpler. Also changed uses to 3/rest and removed ability to multi-take.
> Slightly altered Murmuring Glare's wording. Effect is the same. Also changed uses to 3/rest and removed ability to multi-take.
> Change Encroaching Glare to Wisdom saves, but removed the one at a time limit.
> MAJOR CHANGE: Efficient Pathways -> Clear Reception. Murmering & Framing Glare changed to use motes of clarity, and also gained a minor passive effect. Encroaching Gaze also changed to use motes of clarity for its action-using effect.
TENTACLE:
> Magic Ripping Tendrils can no longer be taken multiple times. Magic Disarraying Tentacles now gives +1 use per rest.
> Dimension Clutching Limbs can no longer be used as a reaction, and it only lasts until the end of your turn. Although it's ability to be used in a Clutch has been greatly reduced, these changes all for removing the use restriction since you can't use it for cheap long distance flight anymore (Nor can it still be used to become basically immovable via caging yourself whenever you feel like it, which was pretty cool but also something that shouldn't be at-will). Now usable at-will, with grapple buffing ability becoming a passive benefit.
Flesh:
> Contorted Existence now limits you to openings 1/10th your size and the "not teleportation" reminder text was removed.
> Energy Consuming Flesh's resistance ability is now at-will, takes an action, and gives a max of 1x day of nourishment per activation.
> Bizarre Metabolism is now 2fp -> 1fp
> Removed the ability to take Magic Consuming Flesh and Contorted Existence multiple times, increased initial uses of MCF to 2x/rest.
> Regenerative Flesh now has to expend a hit die to convert temporary hp to healing, which means it now isn't continuous full non-combat healing when combined with Ravenous Maw. Regenerative Flesh also now lets you regain a Hit Die every short rest, making it more useful without the temporary HP connection. So basically, RF now doesn't feel like an Orifice trait that snuck into Flesh.

[2/5/2021]
MAIN CLASS
> Updated starting equipment to include some basic weaponry.

[2/6/2021]
MAIN CLASS
> Replaced Trait Overflow with Invigorating Surge. Most traits have 1-3 alterations with uses, and the remaining ones are increasingly combining multiple alterations into a single usage pool (like Windswept & Priming, or the Eye trait).
ORIFICE
> Changed Windswept Maws back to a bonus action. Removed the ability to take it multiple times.
> Priming Breath is now a 1fp extension to Windswept Maws that also gives +1 use/rest. Also removed ability to take it multiple times.
SPIKE:
> Goring Spike can now give advantage as a bonus action 1/rest.

Mostly streamlining things, and reducing the number of X per rest abilities and multi-taking in general (outside of cases like Swallow). Changing Eye to using a single pool was a big deal, please do tell me how you feel about that. Also replaced Trait Overflow with Invigorating Surge. I'm hoping Invigorating Surge is useful but not extremely so as Ozodrin main class features are intentionally not all that strong combat-wise since that's coming from the traits.

For Fin, I am thinking of replacing Supreme Charge with:

Spoiler: New Version of Chronal Diving

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2fp - Chronal Diving
You can, to a very limited extent, swim against the relentless flow of time to slightly extend critical moments. When you take the Ready action you may choose to move up to your speed AND take an action, instead of doing one or the other. Alternately, you may choose move up to twice your speed instead of taking an action. You still cannot use the Ready action with the MultiAssault feature.

Furthermore, you may add your proficiency bonus to Initiative checks.

EDIT: Realized there's a way to use the new Chronal to get 3 attacks/ability usages per turn so need to tweak it again before making any changes. :(
EDIT 2: Removed ability to use the Ready action with MultiAssault, added text specifying you still can't do so in order to avoid any confusion.

EDIT: New versions of Shredding Volley / Piercing Rain. If the wording is understandable I'm making the switch (finally almost got rid of all the AoO effects, Ozodrin does too much each turn to have abilities that require multiple saving throws worth of time IMO):

Spoiler

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2fp - Shredding Volley (Requires Ballistic Spikes)
When you use an action to attack with your ballistic spikes you may choose to form and fire a rapid flurry of spikes instead, the volley trading the possibility of an ideal strike for a better chance of hitting the target at all. If you do, you have advantage on the attack roll but any damage dealt by the attack is halved. The flurry of spikes benefits from your other alterations as normal (Rooting Spikes, Poisonous Spikes, etc).

Furthermore, as a bonus action on your turn you may ready yourself to unleash a truly staggering number of spikes upon your foes. If you do, your rapid flurries deal full damage instead of half damage until the end of your turn. Once you use a bonus action this way, you must finish a short or long rest before doing so again.

2fp - Piercing Rain (requires Shredding Volley)
When you use the ability granted by the Shredding Volley alteration, you may choose to instead aim the volley of ballistic spikes at several foes at the same time. If you do, choose a point in space within the normal range of your ballistic spikes and make a single ballistic spike attack. You may apply the result of the attack against any number of creatures within 10’ of the chosen point in space. If you score a critical hit, all chosen targets are automatically hit but do not take any additional damage from the critical. Roll damage a single time and apply half the result to any successfully hit targets. If your rapid flurries would deal full damage this turn, apply full damage (but not additional critical damage) to any successfully hit foe instead. This volley benefits from your other alterations as normal (Rooting Spikes, Poisonous Spikes, etc).

Yet another edit: Changed more things. Buffed Blitzing Fin's damage bonus for regular fins, changed Razor Fins back to only preventing OAs from damaged enemies. Made the Chronal Diving change, added the ability to act while surprised. Shuffled around the benefits for Climbing Limbs (Now Gripping Limbs), Tugging Tendrils, and Coiling Tendrils. A little stronger overall. Changed some ability names.

[babus]

My Ozodrin Group finished its first proper session, and there were lots of opinions. Would you like me to PM you the session's logs? We ended up with just four characters this time, but I made sure people rolled in the channel with the RP so it would provide good data. All OOC talk was kept separate from it.

[Qwertystop]

My Ozodrin Group finished its first proper session, and there were lots of opinions. Would you like me to PM you the session's logs? We ended up with just four characters this time, but I made sure people rolled in the channel with the RP so it would provide good data. All OOC talk was kept separate from it.

Could be interesting to just show here, honestly – as another Ozodrin player, I know I'd like to see it.

[babus]

Could be interesting to just show here, honestly – as another Ozodrin player, I know I'd like to see it.

Alright, then.

https://pastebin.com/323CY0wm These are the transcripts. Sorry if they're not in the best format, but I had to export them from Discord with a special program.


Partway through, the person playing Quinala had to leave, so another player took over their character for them, on request. It is fairly obvious when this happens.

Graci
Primary: Orifice
Secondary: Tentacle, Flesh
Zhane
Primary: Eye
Secondary: Puppet, Fin
Cherise
Primary: Tentacle
Secondary: Puppet, Fin
Amicia
Primary: Spike
Secondary: Eye, Flesh
Abernath
Primary: Flesh
Secondary: Puppet, Spike

More details upon request.

Edit: In Hindsight, I should probably include running HP totals in the logs, as well. That went down real fast for both of the more melee oriented characters. Part of it was Level 1, however, so we'll need to see. The Flesh Primary character in particular did not find it especially positive that Negating Flesh only works against one attack per round, considering its downside, but I can tell you've been working on getting it just right. He was admittedly comparing it to the Bear Barbarian's ability and suggested that using up your reaction for a full round of resistance is probably fine, even sans the Disadvantage on attacks and such.

Other things to note were the lack of healing options, but that's kind of more an issue of an all Ozo party. There was a bard, but they had to leave early as noted.

We'll see how it goes as we move forward, as the HP issues at first level are usually a concern for any class, but that was the main feedback.

Finally I should mention that one of the players felt the class might be better served being split into 3 based on its role (Tank/DPS/Support). I know you've heard things like that before, but the player asked I share it. I'll drill them for more things they enjoyed, though the Eye Primary liked having Cha to hit.

[Magikeeper]

If negating was improved much further it'd need to be 3fp to avoid multiclass power issues. Barbarians can only rage 2/day at level 1 and can't cast spells while doing so. Giving any class basically 24/7 resistance for a 1-level dip is a bit much, I'd say?

Idea for a new version:

3fp – Negating Flesh
You can modify your flesh to resist blows and better distribute force. If your armor class would be less than 16, it is 16 instead.

Furthermore, as a bonus action you can ready your flesh to continually shift, tighten, and loosen as it reconfigures itself to receive each blow. You gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage until the beginning of your next turn. Such focus, however, drains your attention; you cannot take reactions and have disadvantage on wisdom ability checks until the beginning of your next turn.

----

I'm thinking about swapping Regenerative Flesh and Contorted Existence as well, which would make Regenerative Flesh available at level 6.

EDIT:

Maybe:
"Such focus, however, drains your attention; you cannot make opportunity attacks, have disadvantage on Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma ability checks, and cannot concentrate on spells until the beginning of your next turn."

Denying reactions messes with Magic Consuming Flesh, and I don't think in a good way. Of the listed types, its Dex/Wis that matter the most - perception and initiative make it unlikely someone will just use it infinitely outside of combat. This second restriction list pretty much stops it from being better rage for spellcasters and gives reason to not have it up all the time. The OA stuff combined with using up the bonus action gives barbarians reason to be less concerned.

Edit 2: Might remove OA restriction. In addition, thinking of adding the following to the BASE Flesh trait:

"Furthermore, when you use the Focus Surge feature, if Flesh is your Primary trait, you may gain resistance to all forms of damage until the beginning of your next turn. "

Edit 3: Doing all of that leaves level 1 Flesh as particularly helpless. Like, they can either use a crossbow without Dex or throw daggers. Ozodrin do start with daggers now.. but... hrm.. maybe give Illuminating Flesh some kind of limited combat-relevant ability?

Edit 4: Maybe:

Spoiler: Second ability for Illuminating Flesh

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Furthermore, you may, as a bonus action on your turn, unleash a blindingly bright glow that sheds bright light in a 60’ radius and dim light for an additional 60’. Creatures within 5’ of you, that are not immune to being blinded, have disadvantage on attack rolls made against you while you glow in this way. This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn. You may use a bonus action this way twice. You regain all expended uses when you finish a short or long rest.