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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    The problem with Flesh seems to be that it's trying to make up for the inherent issues with Ozodrin's survivability, which means you're spending a lot of creative energy and mechanical potency on making it work more as a tank, and a lot less on the cool features that make Ozodrin unique. In general, I'd say the Core of the class might need adjustment there so that you don't need to account for it as much. With any of the options the class has to offer.

    I personally feel that if you strengthened the base class, you could focus a lot more on the interesting, weird stuff, across all the traits. It would also cut down on the cascade effect that comes from changing one thing creating potential complications with all the rest.

    A few suggestions:

    - Change from D8 to D10. We're far too melee at base, and even the ranger has a d10 along with the fighter. Monk has its own quirks to help, but the Ozodrin does not (without taking into account certain options from traits). Without getting into subclass options, Warlock has its own tricks, as well and the Rogue has about four things. I understand that the idea is to account for those things with the traits, but it puts a rather large design burden on you to get everything exactly right for every variation. Of which there are many.

    -Either provide armor proficiencies, or...

    Level 1
    -Unarmored Defense - make it Dex + your Primary's stat. It's worse than monk and barbarian in most ways as it is.

    Spoiler: Reasoning for Defense:
    Show

    Monk is encouraged to use Dex from its main level one ability - Martial Arts. It keys of Dex, and lets you do Dex to damage and adjusts various things.
    Then you get your unarmored defense which uses Dex and your secondary monk ability, which keys into your saves. Boom. Only need two stats to be exceptionally high. Con comes next.

    Barbarian isn't encouraged to use either at base, it's encouraged to shove everything into Strength because its defenses are taken care of. Rage only works with Strength melee, to start with, and it also helps with Strength stuff that you're likely to do.

    Meanwhile it gives you access to Half Plate and Shields to further help you survive. 19 AC with only 14 Dex and 10 Con. You have time to build it up.

    Meanwhile Ozodrin has none of that. At its base, its a Strength based class, but isn't encouraged to use Strength, is only half encouraged to use Dex, and that depends on what you're going for, and you still will not use Dex for your saves, you'll either be using Strength, Con, or Charisma - potentially all three. So you'll need not one, not two, not three, but four stats to be pretty high.


    Edit: Apologies for bumping this thread to the next page when you probably still want to get direct feedback on your post.
    Last edited by babus; 2021-02-17 at 10:13 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Pages depend on people's settings, as it were.

    Hit Die: I've considered changing the hit die to d10, yes. The main issue would probably be Fin in that regard, which is very monk-ish. I've also considered armor proficiency - it's not like Ozodrin are blocking attacks with martial arts.

    Primary stats: I've been planning to move the big saves-based-on-stat-X thing into just Eye and move away from the primary stat concept. Aside from Eye, all the other traits have very few save-using abilities.

    Spoiler: primary stat talk cont.
    Show
    Tentacle: Should always go Dex/Con. Yes, it has a couple grapple-based abilities, and that takes STR. But unless you're in an only-fighting-giants campaign most monsters are pretty bad at resisting grapples. Once you've removed the monster's size-based immunity a STR 10 Ozodrin would have, like, a 40-50% success rate with bonus action coiling vs most things. With the current tugging they don't even need the Athletics skill. Thus, I feel having the (Strength) is misleading and view removing this as one of the reasons for making the saving throw change. Having STR would be nice but it is not essential to get value from the grapple stuff.

    Spike: Should always go Dex/Con. It's one saving throw is con-based, even. Spike primaries can dump STR entirely if they want, they can even create most of the usual mundane adventuring gear on the fly so they likely won't even miss the carrying capacity.

    Fin: Dex/Con. Changing Smashing->Whirling and letting Razor use acrobatics removed the only reasons to ever go STR with fin primary.

    Eye: Cha/Con, but it's all ranged abilities so lower AC is not the end of the world. Dex is useful for some secondary trait usage.

    Puppet: Either Dex/Con or Cha/Con, Cha/Con puppets can have issues.

    Flesh: Str/Con, has issues. Flesh secondaries aren't going to need STR to get good use out of it, however.

    Orifice: Str/Con, has issues vs large groups although it does have a STR-based ranged option. Only ability with a saving throw is STR based.


    Aside from Parasite Puppet stuff, very few offensive Ozodrin abilities use saving throws. You could gain some benefit from 4 good stats but having 2 good stats will generally suffice. It is hard for most traits to use Ravanous Maws w/Orifice Secondary, true, but changing Unarmored Defense wouldn't change that.

    EDIT: After looking more into melee rogues/monks/warlocks/etc, I'm leaning towards changing the HD to a D10 and giving armor proficiency.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2021-02-18 at 11:31 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    I definitely understand the move away from the Primary Trait system for the reasons you mentioned. When you originally stated that Dex for Tentacle saves was probably fine as very little keyed off it, my eyebrow was admittedly raised. I think it would be good to keep some of the "You can use x or y" language since that allows for certain fun variations (ie Puppet's Charisma to damage on its little support attacks), mind.

    Glad to hear about the AC and HP consideration. My Flesh Primary player actually wrote up an alternate progression for the trait, some of which might be obsoleted with the adjustments you mentioned, but it might have some ideas you like, regardless.

    Spoiler: Flesh Suggestion
    Show
    So I've been working on these off and on for a bit, and this is what I've come up with for what I think flesh (and the form point system) should look like:

    Negating Flesh: Instead of 15ac, grant 2hp/level.
    Tier 1: As reflexive action, reduce crit to normal hit.
    Alternative: Bonus action to grant enemies disadvantage to hit for a round.
    Tier 2: Resistance to all physical. Always On.
    Tier 3: Resistance to all damage. Always On.
    Tier 4: Fast healing 5. Bonus action to activate, works for minutes/level.

    Tempered Body: Bonus action to grant d10 slam attack (bludgeoning, Heavy)
    Tier 1: Bonus action, Grant weapon property (ie reach, trip, grab)
    Tier 2: +1 Weapon
    Tier 3: +2 Weapon
    Tier 4: +3 Weapon

    Illuminating Flesh: Your flesh glows or soaks up light in a small area around yourself.
    Tier 1: Bonus action to increase or decrease light level.
    Tier 2: Create Darkness or Daylight as the spell Con Mod/per day.
    Tier 3: Cast Blind as the spell Con mod/per day
    Tier 4: Cast Sunbeam 1/day as the spell.

    Energy Consuming Flesh: Treat as acclimated for environment.
    Tier 1: Absorb Elements reflexive con mod/day as the spell
    Tier 2: As a bonus action, wreathe yourself in the type of energy of your choice. Your natural attacks now deal 1d6 of this energy type in addition to normal damage.
    Tier 3: If you are taking continuous damage at the beginning of your turn, you may make a save to end this effect at the beginning and end of your turn.
    Tier 4: Energy generating flesh becomes 2d4, and allows you to choose Radiant, Necrotic, or Force for all of the previous tiers.

    Base powers to each piece, which cost 0 form points, and a tier 1-4 that cost 1-4 form point each.


    While he's focusing more on what might be a reasonable progression of practical effects for a more tanky Ozo, I did particularly like his idea for Illuminating Flesh. As I said, a lot of the problems he's trying to address here would be less present with a d10 hit die and armor, but yeah.
    Last edited by babus; 2021-02-19 at 02:40 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Hi, I'm the guy who is working on testing flesh with Babus.

    Obviously we've had limiting testing time, and mine is unfortunately getting more limited as time goes on right now. While I'm aware some of my suggestions are 'boring', or include other features from higher tiers in the base suggestion, I think it's worth note I focused on mechanically balanced options for the most part. Negating Flesh could also have it's tier 2/3 mechancis moved to level+1 times per day, with a duration of con-mod rounds or something along those lines.

    These are also not balanced against other features that are not Flesh related, and I'd suggest also having 2 new power choices at each tier after 1st so there's a little more selection capability for that mix and match feel. I'll be looking at Spike next most likely, and if you'd like I can organize it along the same line, or just look at balancing aspects.

    Truth is, I'd probably split this class into three frames- one for a dps, one for a caster, and a tank, but that's probably not the feedback your looking for, so I'll refrain from pressing down that avenue, and if you don't like the tier system I won't push for that organization again.
    Last edited by NinjaZergling; 2021-02-19 at 02:36 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    You may have noticed I’ve already made the d8 -> d10 hp change and added the armor profs. I also changed starting gear / wealth to make selling stuff to buy decent armor actually an option (wealth is more comparable to barbarian than monk now). Gave fin some no-armor restrictions. Change log over the past two weeks also included some tweaks for the tentacle grapple abilities and such so do check those if you haven’t already~

    Primary Saves: I meant just removing the general concept of “Specific Stat for the saves of each Trait”. The few alterations with saving throws would just note what modifier is used to calculate the DC, like how it works for some barbarian paths. Most traits only have 0-2 alterations with saving throws, outside of Eye having it be a whole system is unneeded.

    ----

    Comments on Flesh suggestion:
    Spoiler: Architecture Talk
    Show
    First, on more base effects - having more 0 point benefits means a level 6 Ozodrin would have at least 18 always-on abilities at level 6. Even if that were somehow balanced, its very complicated. Tertiary stuff would be right out – having 42 always active abilities at level 11 would just be.. no. One-level multiclass dips would also be an issue. The intent may be to add an additional system where you select a number of available alterations and then add points to that that group to make them stronger. Similar to the Meldshaping system from 3.5, but with an additional layer of the 7 trait split. That would resolve power issues, but would be additional complication.

    Stepping back a bit, what does changing the architecture like this add to the class? It might fix Flesh, but that has more to do with Flesh having power/design issues. If Flesh had a series of abilities like “Defiant Flesh (Requires Negating Flesh)” at each tier that gave similar abilities instead of stuff like Sizing Flesh it’d be about the same effect-wise. Unless the intent was to have every trait be modular based on the form points spent on it, with higher-tier traits still existing, but in that case we’re back to “massive complexity increase”. The new organization of abilities would make it easier to have a smaller set of abilities that increase in power appropriately over the course of the class.


    Spoiler: Chasis talk
    Show
    One of the limitations of the Primary/Secondary/Tertiaty system is that all of the traits need to operate on the same timescale (“short rests”, currently) and need to have similar action usage. The main reason why even Eye falls short of being a caster, mage-like as it is, is because MultiAssault limits how much out of game time it can takes to calculate the effects of its alterations. A wide-area AOE, for example, takes too long to adjudicate when that’s not your only offensive action in a round.

    Would it be possible to have main class abilities, like MulitAssault, vary based on Archetype choice? You could.. but again the class would get a lot more complicated and the Secondary/Tertairy system would likely need to be dropped. Otherwise you’d end up with Eye secondaries with MultiAssault and such.

    Changing HP/Armor Proficiency could more easily be done… an ability that gives extra HP/profs based on primary would work for that. Have every base trait have an additional “If X is your primary trait, >Benefit<”, for example.

    That said, aside from possibly Fin I’m not sure d10 for all is really an issue. That makes Eye unusually tanky for a mage-type, but it’s secondaries will be more combat-centric / overall its more like a partial caster martial anyway. The d8 was a hold-over from 3.5, when every Ozodrin had eat-healing.. I kept it as some traits felt more rogue/monk-esq but melee rogues generally need specific builds to function while most Ozodrin traits are very melee-centric.


    Spoiler: Blather on the Woes of Flesh
    Show
    For a long time Flesh was like a closet passive abilities other traits wanted, either for mechanical or just for fluff reasons, would be stuffed into. More recent rewrites made it feel more like something someone might take ever - as is evident by someone actually playtesting a Flesh primary for what.. might be the first time... but it still suffers from not being very good at its role IMO. It also has some of the most niche effects in the class (like Filtering Flesh), and was dealing with a chasis that was very bad for tanking.

    I’ve tried to avoid silver buillet effects with the alterations, and focus on swapping alterations being more of a style choice rather than a make-X-for-Y-situation-and-no-other-time, but there’s still quite a few of those in Flesh. Filtering Flesh, Acclimating Flesh, etc. The likelyhood of needing to stand in a wall of fire or something is.. extremely small, you’d need to be planning to stand in an allies’ AOE effect to reliably make use of it. Acclimating is a cool concept but surviving inside a pool of lava and such is unlikely to come up in a game (or there will be some other way for the party to survive provided even if it does come up). As a side note, the fluff reasons Acclimating exists for - adapting to extremely hostile environments - needs to use prevention wording over ending as lava pools and such don't end. TI flesh doesn’t even have combat style options, really. Tweaking Illuminating Flesh might help fix that, I hadn't thought about expanding on the light idea.


    On swapping in general: Changing alteration swapping to require completing a * Long Rest * instead of a short rest is a possibility, and that would open up design space for stronger abilities. I’m not sure how often short-rest swapping is currently used, tbh. Below level 6 hardly at all IME, but at 7+ the ozodrin has their core combat style set up and can keep a few FP more variable. Anyway, without changing that alterations can’t have long-rest based abilities.

    -----

    Anyway, I’ve been blathering in all directions here, but the solution for Flesh is probably to overhaul most of its stuff.

    I'm likely to be tied up until sometime next week though.

    I did think of a new version of Negating Flesh, though, now that Ozodrin having armor proficiencies is a thing:

    Spoiler
    Show
    2fp – Negating Flesh
    You can form any non-magical light, medium, or heavy armor, such as half-plate, whenever you modify your flesh using the Base alteration of the Flesh trait. This armor need not look normal, but it can be clearly identified as armor. Regardless of how it looks, this armor is still an organic part of your body, and you are proficient with the armor you form this way. You must meet the Strength requirement for any armor you form this way. You cannot benefit from the Unarmored Defense feature while using this armor.

    Furthermore, whenever a creature scores a hit against you, you may use a reaction to shift your flesh to more capably withstand the blow. Any bludgeoning, piercing, and/or slashing damage dealt by the attack is halved. Warping your flesh so suddenly has a price; your movement speed is halved until the end of your next turn.


    Once it stops mimicking Barkskin there's no longer a direct comparison when it basically gives access to fullplate at level 1. D10 + Fullplate + 1/round halving is pretty good early on. I also changed the negate drawback to something that'll hurt other traits and classes more than flesh (movement reduction). I'm also thinking of folding the slam attack into the base alteration of the Flesh trait, among other things, so they don't need to use an alteration just to have a melee attack.

    ---

    Edit: Energy Producing Flesh is 1d4 so the slam lines up damage-wise with Spike, as Flesh would otherwise have the highest weapon damage at levels 6-10. Also because EPF and Sizing both stack with most trait alterations, making such things as 2d6+2d4 tentacles possible at level 11. It's assumed most Flesh ozodrin will stop relying on the slam attack at high levels unless they're using the GWM feat (although 1d10+2d4 isn't bad). Granted, that second issue could be resolved by having Slams deal more energy damage than other alteration weapons.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2021-02-19 at 05:56 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Honestly, I sort of feel like the bump to d10 is unwarranted? My experience has been... mostly not getting hit, occasionally taking a big hit or two, but so far being fine without much in the way of healing other than short rests between some (not all) fights.

    EDIT: Though on further thought this is perhaps the DM making things slightly underthreatening.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2021-02-19 at 06:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Honestly, I sort of feel like the bump to d10 is unwarranted? My experience has been... mostly not getting hit, occasionally taking a big hit or two, but so far being fine without much in the way of healing other than short rests between some (not all) fights.

    EDIT: Though on further thought this is perhaps the DM making things slightly underthreatening.
    Aren't you playing a Fin Primary as well? Fin trait was my main concern with the hit die buff, as IME with much harder fights fin still doesn't need the extra HP. It's similar to a monk, only with less BOOM and more WOOSH. Which means it's even harder to land a hit on than a monk in most combats. Edit: Although with the Fin rework a few ?months? ago its ability to run away from the battlefield in-bewteen its turns has been reduced.

    So the question is.. is Fin overpowered with a d10 hit die? If so, I may need to go back to d8 and have +1hp/level be specific to Flesh, Orifice, Puppet, and.. maybe Tentacle primary Ozodrin.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2021-02-19 at 06:57 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Aren't you playing a Fin Primary as well? Fin trait was my main concern with the hit die buff, as IME with much harder fights fin still doesn't need the extra HP. It's similar to a monk, only with less BOOM and more WOOSH. Which means it's even harder to land a hit on than a monk in most combats. Edit: Although with the Fin rework a few ?months? ago its ability to run away from the battlefield in-bewteen its turns has been reduced.

    So the question is.. is Fin overpowered with a d10 hit die? If so, I may need to go back to d8 and have +1hp/level be specific to Flesh, Orifice, Puppet, and.. maybe Tentacle primary Ozodrin.
    Fin primary, yes, but never did the "run away between turns" thing. 16 AC currently. Honestly the whole party has been reliably pretty safe, this may just be an issue of encounter understrength.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Fin primary, yes, but never did the "run away between turns" thing. 16 AC currently. Honestly the whole party has been reliably pretty safe, this may just be an issue of encounter understrength.
    Ah, yeah that sounds like it. I thought more about Fin in general - it's maneuverability has generally been balanced with reduced DPR. At no point has it been depending on low HP to be balanced - like a crossbow fighter having a d10 HD may be needlessly high but it generally isn't an issue. On the contrary, having a d10 may support Fin relying less on hit-and-run tactics in more dangerous fights. Or at least having more of an option to not do that.

    Edit: Made the armor change to Negating Flesh / created a new reaction-using ability for Illuminating Flesh and some small changes to Adaptive Flesh (only doesn't stack with spells now) and Tempered Body (Second ability lasts until beginning of next turn and extended use is only as tiring as jogging, e.g. you can use it for longer activities now.) Edit 2: Tempered Body lets Shove count as an alteration-granted ability now. Other changes later this week.


    Edit 3: I'm wondering if Orifice is getting too much temp HP at Tier II now that Ozodrin armor wearing is a thing. Thoughts? 10thp/turn is doable at level 6.

    Edit 4: Idea for a new Acclimating Flesh:
    Spoiler: Acclimating
    Show
    2 1fp – Acclimating Flesh (Requires Energy Consuming Flesh)
    Choose one of the following damage types: Fire, Cold, Lightning, Acid, Psychic, Thunder, Psychic, Radiant, Necrotic, Force. You gain resistance to damage of the chosen type. Furthermore, your body can adapt to sources of the chosen damage type over time – effects that would continue to deal continuous damage of the chosen type to you instead deal no further damage of that type. For example, if you chose “Fire” and jumped into a pool of lava you would take half the initial damage but would take no further damage unless you exited and re-entered the pool. You would still take damage from a Scorching ray that hit you while you’re swimming in lava, since that would be a different source of fire damage.

    You may change the chosen damage type as a bonus action on your turn.


    Edit 5: In general, thinking of reworking Regenerating Flesh, moving it to tier II, moving magic consuming flesh to tier III, and replacing Contorted Existence with a Tier II ability that has both offensive and non-combat use.

    Edit 6: Possible replacement:
    Spoiler: Phantasmagoric Flesh
    Show
    2fp - Phantasmagoric Flesh (Requires Illuminated Flesh)
    You may, as an action, manipulate the light shed by your body to create illusionary objects, creatures, and other visual phenomena. This illusions are purely visual in nature, and cannot extend farther than 20’ from you nor past total cover. You can freely change and/or alter the movements of the created illusions, such as by making an illusionary creature walk or turning it into a cloud. These illusions last until the end of your next turn, until they have total cover from you, or until you are more than 20’ away from them. Creatures that physically interact with the illusion(s), and creatures that use an action to study the illusion, may make an Intelligence(Investigation) check (DC 8 + Proficiency Modifier + Your Charisma Modifier) to recognize its false nature. If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the creature can see through the illusion and any other illusion created by this ability for 10 minutes. You may automatically see through any illusions you make this way.

    Furthermore, your flesh can perform photosynthesis; every 12 hours you spend in sunlight counts as consuming a pound of food for the purposes of avoiding starvation.


    Edit 7: Possible change to Biostraining Cannonade:
    Spoiler: Biorupture
    Show
    1fp 2fp – Biorupture Cannonade (Requires Ballistic Spikes)
    You may, as a bonus action on your turn, secrete a propulsive mixture and/or otherwise contort your musculature to greatly increase the range of your Ballistic spikes. If you do, the range of your Ballistic Spikes increases to (180’/540’) until the end of your turn. When you use this ability, you may choose to sacrifice 10 hit points. If you do, your ballistic spikes instead have a range of (240’/ 720’) and deal an additional 1d6 damage until the end of your turn. Either way, the resulting recoil has a price; You have disadvantage on all Strength and Dexterity ability checks until the beginning of your next turn.


    Might have it change places with Shredding Volley (TII <-> TIII) as well.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2021-02-22 at 02:53 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Architecture: That's a pretty fair assessment, and one that I hadn't considered (haven't made it that far in playtesting). Probably just push the base and tier 1 effects from my setup together then. You actually hit the nail on the head with my goal of modularity. Flesh primary would have to choose (#) traits per long rest, but be able to spend their points each short rest to enhance those abilities. Definitely does increase the complexity, so I see why you'd go against that model. The goal for tiering up each base form was to keep it in a similar streamline to existing classes capabilities that would keep these abilities useful at any given level. Granted, I'm not a 5e mechanics expert- I haven't actually played it aside from this play test in about a year.

    Chassis: I'm definitely noticing that. This delves into why I'd separate it into three distinct classes (tank, dps, support). Significant time and work would be involved, of course, and if you ever feel the interest, I'd be happy to help you break that down. Probably use monk/rogue, fighter/barbarian, and cleric/bard as the source comparisons for each, and work from there.

    Woes of Flesh: That was why I worked out Energy Consuming flesh the way I did in my adaptation. Reflexive Absorb Elements is really good for a tanky character, buffs your damage. Again, haven't made it far, so this is all just initial feedback work. I'd honestly move things like filtering flesh out completely, as cool and niche as they are. In a PF2 style system they'd make great feats, but in 5e you really have to make every level count.

    I love your new negating and illuminating flesh by the way.
    Last edited by NinjaZergling; 2021-02-23 at 11:29 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Hello again. Session two has finished, but they're mid-battle, so I'm waiting for that to finish before posting the next set of logs. Armor and Hit Dice bumps seem to be making a difference, though if you see HP dropping a bit quick in the numbers, it's more because the squid I have them fighting keeps rolling really crazy well.

    Spike Player had some thoughts and suggestions. It's... a lot, but I'm honesty thrilled to hear my Players so excited about the class that they really dig into the mechanics. Ozodrin really does inspire people.

    Spoiler: Player's Structuring Thoughts
    Show
    The Tiers should be reworked as well, for general feel.
    T1 should be the workhorse, trait defining abilities.
    T2 should introduce new, often esoteric abilities that aren't just direct upgrades to t1. Expand on your capabilities
    T3 should upgrade your "main" defining abilities, and provide you with new ways to utilize them, or otherwise alter them in some way to be better
    T4 should introduce new, way crazier stuff. These are your capstones - they should feel like it. This is an Artillerist's Fortified Position, a Grave Cleric's Keeper of Souls, a Drunken Master's Intoxicated Frenzy.


    Spoiler: Reasoning
    Show
    The problem is that it doesn't really seem to be a niche it precisely fills at Tier 1.

    Math:
    Assuming a damage mod of +3, you have a 1d8+3. Average 8 damage.
    Flesh has an average of 9 damage
    Fin has an average 9 damage
    Tentacle has an average 11 damage
    Orifice has an average 11 damage

    With nothing more than the base alterations (or Flesh's damage alteration) vs Spike's 1fp alteration(s). It equals to Eye, and Puppet doesn't have an attack. TWF is notably the only thing keeping Fin, Tentacle, and Orifice ahead.

    A lot of my thought process comes down to "is this as useful/more useful than a first level cleric casting guiding bolt? If not, make it so.". Or Bless or any of the Wizard spells with understanding that I mean "for the daily limited abilities".

    Comparing, say, Fighter to it at level 5 with both classes having +4 damage mod and both using one handed 1d8 weapons
    Fighter gets two attacks at 1d8+6
    Spike gets two attacks at 1d8+4
    And that's their basic 'workhorse'.
    They both have the short rest use of their level 2 ability to double that, which only makes this worse.
    Then you have the Fighter's limited abilities that let you either
    -do unique fighter stuff (battlemaster) with additional damage
    -get advantage until the end of your turn on all attacks as well as temporary hp 3 times per long rest
    -do magic and be the tankiest fellow in the game
    -whatever other else your main shtick is from your subclass
    -and you have the rest of your core features
    Meanwhile spike still doesn't have its secondary features, and what t1 features exist are mostly not great about actually making you militant.

    It basically just gives you a bow, a longsword, some limited use rope, a smokebomb, and Versatile Fighter.


    Spoiler: Restructure
    Show
    Spoiler: Tier 1 Spike Advanced Alterations
    Show
    1fp - Ballistic Spikes
    [[You can form spikes that can be fired with muscular action, allowing you to use these ballistic spikes as ranged weapons (1d8 piercing damage, range 80/200'). You can choose to use your strength modifier for your ballistic spike's attack and damage rolls instead of your dexterity modifier. You are proficient with these spikes. Fired/Hurled spikes quickly regrow.]]

    In addition, as a bonus action you may prepare yourself to make piercing strikes. Until the end of your turn, your ranged spike attacks pierce cover and resistances within your first range increment, ignoring AC bonuses from cover, though total cover applies disadvantage. In addition, each attack against a target ignores resistances and multiple attacks are treated as one for the purposes of reactions. E.G. you hurl or fire two spikes at a Venom Troll/Monk, and its Poison Splash/Catch Arrows would only be applied once.

    This ability cannot pierce particularly durable materials such as adamantine and mithril and walls of force, but it can pierce up to 2 feet of stone, or half a foot of metal.

    You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.

    1fp - Goring Spikes
    [[You can form spikes that are more suitable for melee combat, allowing you to use these goring spikes as melee weapons (1d8 piercing damage, finesse). You are proficient with these spikes.]]

    In addition, as a bonus action you may cause your next successful melee spike attack to cause bleeding before the end of your turn, dealing an additional amount of damage equal to (Half Ozo level? Constitution Modifier? Proficiency bonus?). This is not weapon damage. At the start of the creatures turn, it takes this bleed damage again. This effect lasts for 1 minute, or until it receives healing. Healing is reduced by an amount equal to the damage it would have taken and must exceed the bleed amount to remove it. E.G. a creature heals 8 and you bleed it for 5, it only receives 3 and the bleed is removed.

    This bleed cannot be applied to the same target more than once.

    You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.

    1fp - (Vorpal) Spike
    You can form a single large spike designed purely to cause as much damage as possible, granting you a melee weapon (2d6 piercing damage, heavy). You are proficient with this spike.

    In addition, as a bonus action you can ready yourself to deliver a devastating blow. Until the end of your turn, you can use an Action to target a creature within your melee reach no bigger than 1 size category larger than yourself to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a success, the target takes your spike damage. On a failure, the target takes your spike damage and is Impaled.
    An Impaled target becomes Restrained while impaled and automatically takes your weapon damage at the beginning of its turn. An impaled target may use an action, or have someone else their action, to remove the target from your spike. You may not use the impaling spike to make additional attacks, and it must remain attached to you and you may only have one target impaled at a time.

    You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.

    1fp - Flurry Spikes
    You can form spikes more suited to rapid melee and medium distance combat, granting you a melee weapon (1d6 piercing damage, light, finesse, thrown 30/90). You are proficient with these spikes. Fired/Hurled spikes quickly regrow.

    In addition, as a bonus action you can ready yourself to blossom into a barrage of spikes. Until the end of your turn you may take an action to attack twice, targeting anything within 30 feet. These attacks cannot benefit from advantage, but apply effects as normal.

    You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest.

    1fp - Carved Spikes
    [[No change]]

    1fp - Tether (Requires Ballistic Spikes, Carved Spikes, or Flurry Spikes)
    [[No Change]]

    2fp - Smoke Spikes
    [[No change]]

    Spoiler: Tier 2 Spike Alterations Alterations
    Show
    2fp - Deadly Spikes (Requires Ballistic Spikes, Goring Spikes, Flurry Spikes, or Vorpal Spike)
    [[No change.]]

    2fp - Poisonous Spikes
    [[As a bonus action on your turn you can will your spikes to generate poison for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution modifier. Any creature damaged by one or more of your spikes takes 2 poison damage and must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is poisoned until the end of your next turn. A creature hit by multiple spikes in the same round only takes the poison damage once / makes a single saving throw.

    After using this ability twice, you may not do so again until you complete a short or long rest.]]

    1fp - Twisting Spikes (Requires Ballistic Spikes, Goring Spikes, Flurry Spikes, or Vorpal Spike)
    [[No change.]]

    2fp - Rooting Spikes
    [[You can form spikes that embed themselves in any creatures they damage, taking root/expanding/unfolding/etc to push themselves deeper into your foes. Creatures with one or more spikes embedded in them take your Constitution modifier piercing damage at the beginning of each of their turns.

    An afflicted opponent can use an action to remove all spikes embedded in themselves, dealing 1d6 slashing damage to themselves in the process.

    If the spike was directly attached to your body (Goring Spike, Vorpal Spike, Deadly Quills) it detaches from you when embedding itself into a target. This ability can be used with the tether alteration, it stays connected to the 'rope'.]]

    2fp - Deadly Quills
    [[You gain the ability to instantly extend and retract especially thin and long spikes designed to break into sharp fragments when struck. As a reaction you may cover yourself in these quills until the start of your next turn, causing creatures that successfully make a melee attack against you with a part of their body or a non-reach weapon take 2 piercing damage from your spikes.]]

    1fp – Quivering Tether (Requires Tether)
    [[No change]]
    (Why was Deadly Quills rated so high for two piercing damage? Not even a rolled thing, either)


    Spoiler: Tier 3 Spike Advanced Alterations
    Show
    ??fp - Ballistic Cannonade (Requires Ballistic Spikes)
    You further alter your spikes to absolute perfection and altering your musculature to better serve its new purpose. You may now use Ballistic Spike's piercing ability regardless of range increment, may pierce walls of force, and Total Cover no longer provides disadvantage on your attack.

    In addition, when using its piercing ability, successful ranged attacks shred the target's resistances, nullifying any resistances not overcome by magic until the beginning of your next turn.

    ??fp - Sever (Requires Goring Spikes)
    You further alter your spikes to absolute perfection and altering your musculature to better serve its new purpose. Whenever you would use Goring Spike's bleed ability, you can instead target an appendage (such as a wing, arm, leg, or other limb not a head) on a successful attack. This provokes a Constitution Saving Throw. On a failure, you sever the targeted appendage.

    -Arm (and other applicable appendages). Any special abilities tied to the appendage are removed (Such as a Manticore's tail spikes). if no special abilities are tied to the limb, it loses one attack on a Multiattack action.
    -Leg (or other applicable appendage such as a wing). The creature halves its movement speed and if it moves more than 10 feet (or 5 feet if it only has a 10 foot speed), it must succeed a Dexterity saving throw or fall prone immediately, losing any further movement.
    -Eyes. The target gains the Blinded condition permanently.

    ??fp - Terrifying Pierce (Requires Vorpal Spikes)
    You further alter your spikes to absolute perfection and altering your musculature to better serve its new purpose. You may now form up to two Vorpal Spikes. In addition, whenever you have a creature impaled you may use them as living shields. Creatures of your size provide half cover, while creatures one size larger provide three-fourths cover.

    You may have two creatures impaled, but may only use one for cover.

    ??fp - Virulent Smog (Requires Poisonous Spikes and Smoke Spikes)
    Your biochemistry alters to become a more perfect expression of toxicology. Your Smoke Spikes radius increases to 20 feet, and you gain the ability to see through smoke you generate. Your Poisonous Spikes damage adds an additional 1d4, and you may affect creatures normally immune to poison provided they are not also immune to the damage type that delivered it.

    In addition, you may spend an action to deliver a specially prepared spike anywhere within 120 feet of you. On impact, the spike explodes into a 20-foot radius sphere of poisonous smog that spreads around corners. It lasts for up to five minutes, or until Strong Wind disperses it. Its area is heavily obscured.

    When a creature enters the smog's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, that creature must make a Constitution saving throw. The creature takes 3d8 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. Creatures are affected even if they hold their breath or don't need to breathe.

    The fog moves 10 feet away from you at the start of each of your turns, rolling along the surface of the ground. The vapors, being heavier than air, sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down openings.

    The smog treats immunity and resistance as if they were one step lower (E.g. Immunity becomes resistance, and Resistance is removed. This does not stack with itself.)

    You may use this ability two times per long rest.

    ??fp - Walking Fire (Requires Flurry Spike)
    You further alter your spikes to absolute perfection and altering your musculature to better serve its new purpose. Your Flurry from the prerequisite now can benefit from advantage, and its range increases to 60 feet.

    In addition, when you use a MultiAssault with this flurry, you may focus all your attacks and effects on one target in a suppressive rush, imparting disadvantage on attack rolls and perception checks for one round.

    Spoiler: Tier 4 Spike Advanced Alterations
    Show
    2fp – Deleterious Vapor (Virulent Smog)
    (Fluff Goes Here). You may expel a 30 foot radius cloud centered on yourself. The cloud spreads around corners. It lasts for one minute or until Strong Wind disperses it. The type and action needed is dependent on the type of traits you have formed.

    Poisonous (Requires Poisonous Spikes) - You expel a compressed chlorine gas as an action. All creatures within its radius must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failure, they take 5d8 poison damage and are Poisoned for one minute and have disadvantage on Strength and Dexterity saving throws while Poisoned. On a success they are not poisoned and take half damage. The area is lightly obscured.

    Smoke (Requires Poisonous Spikes) - You expel an obscuring cloud of debilitating smoke as a bonus action. All creatures within its radius must succeed a Constitution saving throw. On a failure, they are beset by a fit of coughing and burning, finding it difficult to focus on one task and receive disadvantage on Attack Rolls and Skill Checks for one minute. In addition, while within the cloud, no creature can make attacks as a Reaction. The area is heavily obscured for everyone but you.

    You may use this ability twice per long rest.

    2fp - Death Blossom (Requires Ballistic Cannonade or Walking Fire)
    (Fluff goes here). As an action, you may produce any of the following abilities if you meet its prerequisite.

    Piercing Shot (Requires Ballistic Cannonade) - You fire a large, piercing spike in a 60 foot line that pierces all enemies hit, and passes through all cover you are capable of breaching with Ballistic Cannonade. Each enemy suffers 7d8 piercing damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw, or half as much on a success. In addition, you may instead choose to pierce one enemy to a wall or sturdy surface in its path within range, rather than pierce through it. If you do so, that creature must make a Strength saving throw. On a failure, they suffer 7d8 Piercing damage and are forced to move adjacent to the wall and are Restrained. On a success, they take half damage, are not restrained, and make no movement. Each creature hit with Piercing Shot has their resistances shredded as though hit by Ballistic Cannonade.

    Cone of Death (Requires Walking Fire) - You explode an unrelenting volley of spikes in a 30 foot cone, damaging creatures and unattended objects. Creatures within the cone must make a Dexterity saving throw or take 7d8 piercing damage. On a success, the damage is halved. Each creature within the cone additionally suffer disadvantage on attack rolls and perception checks for one round, and causes the area to become difficult terrain for one minute.
    Caladbolg (Requires Walking Fire and Ballistic Cannonade) - You may fire a spike at a point within 120 feet of you, passing through any barriers you could pierce with Ballistic Cannonade. The spike detonates into a 20ft radius sphere dealing 7d8 piercing damage to all creatures and unattended objects ignoring resistance on a failed Dexterity saving throw. On a success, the damage is halved. All creatures affected suffer disadvantage on perception checks for one round, and the area becomes difficult terrain for one minute.

    You may apply alterations as normal to these attacks as normal, but may not apply Tether to Cone of Death or Caladbolg.

    You may use this ability twice per long rest.

    2fp - Queen's Wrath (Requires Terrifying Pierce or Sever)
    (Fluff goes here). As an action, you may produce any of the following abilities if you meet its prerequisite:

    Groundspike Graveyard (Requires Terrifying Pierce) - Slamming your hands into the ground you cause spikes to erupt from the ground in a 15ft radius around you. Each creature within reach must succeed a dexterity saving throw or suffer 7d8 piercing damage and become impaled as though struck by Vorpal Spike's ability. On a success, the creature takes half damage and does not become impaled. While impaled, the recurring damage is 3d6, and may remove themselves as normal. This spikes last for one minute before crumbling.

    Critical Pain (Requires Sever) - Lashing out at a creature within 30 feet, you cause them to suffer 7d10 piercing damage on a failed Dexterity saving throw. On a success, they suffer half damage. In addition, the affected creature must succeed a Constitution saving throw or suffer two Sever effects at random. On a success, they suffer only one. If the target has Evasion and succeeds the initial dexterity saving throw, they are not subject to the following Constitution saving throw.

    Judgment (Requires Terrifying Pierce and Sever) - Target a creature up to two size categories larger than yourself within 40 feet of you. You lash out with devastating efficiency, moving immediately to become adjacent with the creature without provoking attacks of opportunity including from abilities such as Sentinel. The chosen creature suffers 7d10 piercing damage on a failed dexterity saving throw and becomes Impaled. On a success, the creature suffers half damage and negates the impalement. In addition, all adjacent enemies and the target suffer piercing damage equal to your Ozodrin level as spikes tear their way out from within.

    You may apply alterations to these attacks as normal, but may not apply Tether to Groundspike Graveyard.

    You may use this ability twice per long rest.

    2fp – Flickering Spikes (requires Ballistic Spikes, Goring Spikes, Flurry Spikes, or Vorpal Spikes)
    [[As a bonus action on your turn, you can will your spikes to fade in an out of existence, taking on a phantasmal appearance for one minute. While flickering, your attacks may strike targets in the ethereal plane and bypass constructs created through magical force. Furthermore, any melee attacks made with your spikes have advantage.

    After using this ability twice, you must finish a short or long rest before using it again.

    Bonus Thought: "Goring Spike" and "Vorpal Spike" should perhaps have their name swapped?


    On a personal note, I love pretty much everything about Puppet so far besides its Base Alteration. I realize its meant to be the starting point from which one leaps, but an extra 5 feet of reach for the purposes of lifting one pound or less feels like it's significantly less impressive than the others. There really seems to be more wordcount devoted to what it can't do than what it can. Disadvantage with Perception Checks originating from within 5 feet of you also feels a bit silly, as it means you aren't going to even have much luck peeking around corners. Like, even Mage Hand gives us 10 Pounds of lift and that has a range of 30 feet.

    To be honest, I think it would be perfectly balanced to say that Puppets aren't coordinated enough to attack, but can lift as much as you can. Maybe have going beyond 5 feet with Shifting Strings make that impossible, or don't, as carrying stuff isn't really that mechanically potent, and they can still be attacked. I also feel like the 5 foot limitation might make Shifting Strings a bit too inherently important, but that's an issue that will likely disappear as I level up.

    Despite that, most of my Players took Puppet as a secondary for how cool it is, it should be noted.
    Last edited by babus; 2021-02-27 at 04:17 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Ozodrin (5E Conversion, PEACH)

    Busy week. Might be another week before more changes are done, tbh. I haven’t forgotten about Flesh >.>

    Puppet’s base trait would really need to have part of Shifting Strings folded into it to be useful for carrying things and such, and it’s already a large text block that every Ozodrin has access to at all times level 6+. It’s true that it is the least useful base trait by itself, outside of some RP opportunities. That’s partially so any Ozodrin not focusing on puppets can ignore it and its text pile, granted. I’ll think about making it useful.

    __________________

    Spike Commentary:
    I see more per-long-rest suggestions, I feel short-rest swapping matters more 6+ than 1-5 though so I’m iffy on changing that based on this feedback. The class can’t have both – if an ability can be swapped out it needs to base its limitations on short rests unless it burns hit die or some other long-rest resource that’s not an alteration.

    One of the things they’re suggesting is to restructure the # of abilities per level. Have more Tier 1 abilities, basically. Low level Ozodrin don’t have many FP, however, so there’s limits to what could be done with that. It’d also increase the sheer number of choices they get at level 6 by quite a bit (assuming all features were changed instead of just spike).

    The general idea, though, seems to be that low-level spike is not particularly interesting in combat. When I playtested spike a long time ago it had Ballistic/Extra Range/Goring(no second ability)/Carved/Poison. In-combat was okay, mostly overshadowed by sharpshooter, out of combat contribution from the class was Flesh Trait secondary and a lot of Carved Spike use.. which was all right but I felt that would be very game/table dependent. Thus, more OoC stuff ended up at T1 spike during the various revisions. At the end of this post I have some ideas for making T1 spike more interesting in combat as well. It also sounds like higher-level spike isn't particularly exciting, which I'll get to later.

    Comments on some of the suggested abilities:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Walking Fire: I like the general idea of this. Not sure about the exact mechanics though.

    Flurry: 4x spike attacks at level 6 suffers from the existence of the Sharpshooter feat more than anything. Sharpshooter is the only reason Orifice’s spit attacks can’t be used with TWF, for example. Range builds usually end up with hand crossbows + the master feat because each extra attack is that big of a deal, pretty much because of Sharpshooter.

    Body part targeting: Some of the suggested spike stuff calls into question how other classes’ abilities work. Called shots are just something the game doesn’t deal with, outside of legacy vorpal stuff, and it doesn’t offer a general used-by-every-group reason for *why * you can’t aim for the eyes with a regular arrow. It’s something 5E goes out of its way to keep abstract in most situations.

    AoEs: A lot of the spike suggestions involve AoE save effects. Having more than one of those going off in a turn would bog down combat. This is an issue specific to Ozodrin, who often use 2-3 abilities per round. This means their abilities need to be fairly quick to resolve. I have considered making smoke spikes become a toxic cloud before, the time it’d take to run the ability is the main reason I haven’t done so. When I go over the T2+ spike stuff I might think of a way to do so without bogging down combat, though.

    Bleeding: Same idea as rooting, only earlier and harder to remove. The reduction effect as described is complexity without much pay-off, past early levels at least. An enemy healing themselves almost never comes up and if it does it’s going to be more than enough. Could be an ability though, yes. Would also need to include a fluff reason why this bleeding is different from the bleeding that could result from any other weapon attack (which is easy enough given spike’s themes). Such a fluff reason also support a more powerful anti-healing effect.

    Impaling: The old version of rooting did impaling-type things, and the 3E ozodrin had harpooning mechanics. It was converted to rooting to be less convoluted, although having them be auto-restrained would resolve most of the movement issues. That wording would still need to handle how it effects your own movement (or not) while the creature is impaled and a way to release them yourself. The using enemies as shields effect would be fun though.

    Ballistic Range: At 60’/180’ they’re already the longest ranged STR-capable PC weapon in the game. That said, I’ve considered possibly bumping them up to 80’, which would make them 80’/240’ following the x3 long range convention for thrown weapons.

    Rooting Spike: Nerfing it to be based on constitution.. it makes fluff sense but damage-wise being 5 at level 11 is fine? 5+Con might be a little much. 3+Con is more feasible but not all damage abilities are stat-based so I question if this needs to be changed. That might have been done as part of adding all of those other abilities, granted.

    Early Piercing Effects: Wall-piercing is a cool ability, but also rather niche. It gains more use when facing enemies that can make walls in the middle of combat, which is unlikely to happen at low levels. It's also useful for assassinations and making the DM cry, but that's not the best way to get homebrew accepted into a game. Many DMS are not going to know how thick random wall X is, so that's also an issue. I feel the effect is better off at high levels where it avoids almost all of these issues. Bypassing cover is more useful, however. I had a different idea for Ballistic but doing anti-cover stuff earlier is a consideration. Unearthly Power covers nearly all piercing resistance in the game at level 5 though, and Carved Spikes handles most of the rest.

    Flickering: Outside of specific campaigns, more of a nerf overall since this version wouldn’t be able to shoot through regular walls. Although that’s surely due to the suggested Ballistic taking the wall bypassing effect. The suggested Flickering aside, current Flickering might not have enough uses though, and could likely be reworked entirely... I generally don’t have Ozodrin bonus actions give effects that last for more than one round in favor of having them possess a sizable number of bonus action abilities fighting for the slot that are fairly potent.

    Quivering is currently 60’ movement as a bonus action (or bonus action + action). That would be rather strong at Tier II. Not as strong as before it got nerfed, granted, so possibly workable.

    Deadly Quills used to benefit from poison/smoke instead of just rooting. Otherwise.. not much reason to be Tier III but not much reason to move it to Tier II either. For some reason I thought I had them dealing damage on a miss, which would be a lot stronger. Having them be more temporary is an interesting idea.. hrm.. what fluff reason to go with for that..

    “Vorpal” has a long D&D history of being connected with beheading effects, the one exception to the general no-called-shots rule.


    I did think of a more interesting Ballistic Spikes, however, a related change to Tether, and a Goring Spikes change:

    Spoiler: Hunting Spikes, Neo-Tether, Clashing Spikes
    Show

    1fp – Hunting Spikes
    You gain the ability to form and utilize the following kinds of spikes:
    • Ballistic Spikes. Ballistic spikes that can be fired with muscular action, allowing you to use these them as ranged weapons (1d8 piercing damage, range 60'/180'). You can choose to use your strength modifier for your ballistic spike's attack and damage rolls instead of your dexterity modifier. You are proficient with these spikes. Fired/Hurled spikes quickly regrow.
    • Caltrop Spikes. You may, as an action, form and fire a fragile container spike that breaks apart to unleash large numbers of tiny caltrop spikes at any location within 30’ of you. These caltrop spikes fill a 5ft by 5ft area. Any creature that attempts to move into, out of, or through this area must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failure, they stop moving and take 1 piercing damage. You may add half your proficiency modifier to the damage dealt, rounded up. Until at least one point of this damage is healed, their speed is reduced by 10ft. The slowing effect does not stack. A creature moving through the area at half speed doesn't need to make the saving throw.


    1fp – Tether (Requires Hunting Spikes or Carved Spikes)
    As a bonus action on your turn you may choose to have one of your detached spikes remain connected to you by some kind of secretion – spider silk, goo, etc - that hardens when your spike hits something or when you will it to do so (willing the material to harden before the spike hits something causes the attack to miss). This secretion has the durability of silk rope. This tether cannot be longer than 120'; if a spike is fired beyond that range the tether can still be formed but it will not be connected to you. Any “rope” created this way dissolves in an hour. You can detach the end of any number of “ropes” that are connected to you as a bonus action on your turn. Using this ability with the Carved Spikes alteration effectively allows you to use your spikes like grappling hooks, along with anything else you might use ropes with carved endpieces for.

    Caltrop Spikes, if you can form them, cannot remain attached to you. However, when you use an action to use your caltrop spikes you may use your bonus action to have one set of them be connected to each other. If you do, their container spike breaks in mid-air to unleash a spiked net instead of its normal effect. Unlike a regular net, this fragile spiked net has a range of (10’/30’), a break DC and AC of 5, takes 1 damage to destroy, and does not limit your actions (e.g. If you have the MultiAssault feature you may attack with a spiked net and also make a regular attack). In addition, unlike a normal net the spiked net can be broken by any damage type except Psychic and Poison. Finally, any creature that attempts to free itself by making a strength check or attacking your spiked net takes 2d4 piercing damage.

    1fp – Clashing Spikes
    You gain the ability to form and utilize the following kinds of spikes:
    • Goring Spikes. You can form spikes that are more suitable for melee combat, allowing you to use these goring spikes as melee weapons (2d4 piercing damage, finesse). You are proficient with these spikes.
    • Deadly Quills. You gain the ability extend especially thin and long spikes designed to break into sharp fragments when struck. As a bonus action on your turn you may cover yourself in these quills, causing creatures that come into physical contact with you and/or successfully hit you with a non-reach melee attack to take 1 piercing damage. You may add half your proficiency modifier to the damage dealt, rounded up. These quills last until you use your movement, at which point they break apart and must be re-formed.


    ^The Caltrop spikes involve saving throws but using it multiple times in a round doesn’t drag out your turn and it’s only a 5ft square per action. You’d think the enemy should possibly take damage or something the turn it’s used.. but I don’t think it’s worth the descriptive text much less the game time to add that. As for the spiked nets, even if they’re much easier to break nets are really strong when you remove the bookeeping aspect. I’m concerned that it might be OP at 10’/30’ range, tbh. Making Tether take a bonus action.. quivering will need to be tweaked to work with that. Caltrop spikes also helps sets the stage for possibly having some more dramatic higher level spike stuff.

    Maybe tweak Goring spikes further.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2021-02-28 at 05:43 PM.

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