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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

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    Default 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    (Proper 5e tag will be added once I get home) Coming back to the whole "making classes more in-line with their counterparts" thing I have going here (started with the sorcerer and ranger), I'ma take a quick look at the fighter, and some of the problems it presently has.

    Now before I get into this, do note; I will be modeling this critique based off of the flavor of the 1e/ 2e fighter, who were absolute mundane badasses simply because they were better at hitting, surviving, passively resisting harmful effects and kicking ass than any other class in the game. Bringing this back requires only a few tweaks.

    Now first things first, let's look at things the 5e fighter is currently good at:
    -Damage: Yup, a hella lot of DPR here. Action surge and up to 4 attacks/ action (though 2-3 attacks will be more standard) gives them quite the explosive kit. Add in a magical buff, superiority dice or increased crit range, and this single-target DPR is quite frankly silly.
    -Armor class: Hitting AC 18 is easy for even the all-out-offense fighter, and some magical full plate or a shield can easily get the more defense-oriented fighters up to AC 20-26. Pretty good on this front throughout the entire game.
    -Base hit points: With a base D10, only the paladin or ranger has an equal base, and only the barbarian has more.
    -If battlemaster: Pretty good control and teamwork abilities via superiority dice.

    What are they meh or equal at?
    -Damage on each hit in particular: While a fighter can hit hard if all of their attacks land, and they can spread it around, attacks made with non-magic weapons aren't all too powerful blow-by-blow.
    -HP sustainability: While second wind is helpful, it is rather small compared to the damage that is likely to be coming in, and it is in no way rage. A second use of this at level 13 wouldn't be too unbalanced, and would make our front line beatstick feel a bit better at front line duty.
    -Actually hitting things: Everyone is equally competent at this task, whether they are a twiggy nerd throwing around scorching rays or a big stompy barbarian, but this is what the fighter was the absolute best at in 1e and 2e, and was the largest reason to play fighter over something with other goodies (like, say, paladin) in those systems. Now this one isn't the most important to address, but in 5e the method to making fighters just that good at their job does give us an interesting option here. Since everything is tied to proficiency bonus so nicely, giving the fighter some way to increase their proficiency bonus at, say, levels 11 and 20 could lead to interesting results. I'll be the first to admit that it's probably unnecessary, but something to consider to bring back the fighter of yore's flavor.

    Finally, what are fighters bad at?
    -Any saving throw but constitution/ strength saves: Currently Indomitable doesn't help with this... But it can be modified to do so in one or two ways (see below)
    -Skills: While they can be okay at one or two, for the most part fighters just aren't all that good at skills. Increasing proficiency might be nice here, and the champion in particular can get the slightest change to their Remarkable Athlete ability... But for the most part, just getting another skill proficiency over all would help at least a little bit.
    -Mobility: Fighters really aren't all that mobile... Though to be fair, they don't have a reputation for being mobile, and they don't really need said mobility. They are at the high damage+defense end of the scale (the unyielding glacier) vs a monk or rogue's damage+mobility (glass cannon). Just a weakness to bring up, really, and no need to address it given a fighter can increase their mobility via a feat called mobility if they find it to be a problem.

    So then, onto the actual changes:

    Skill proficiencies: You may select three skills from the list.

    Second wind: (add at the end) You gain a second use of this ability at the end of every short or long rest at level 13.

    Indomitable: Option 1; (Change entirely to) At level 9 you select one non-proficient saving throw to gain proficiency in. You may reroll any failed saving throw once as long as you have proficiency in the saving throw. You must complete a long rest before you can reroll a saving throw again.
    At levels 13 and 17 you gain proficiency in another saving throw and may make one more reroll each long rest.

    (Or)

    Option 2; (Replace entirely) Starting at level 9 when you fail a saving throw, you may choose to succeed instead. You must complete a long rest before you can use this ability again.
    At levels 13 and 17 you gain an additional use of indomitable each long rest.

    ((Personally, I like option 1 a bit more))

    And then there was the completely optional buff

    Battle hardened
    Starting at level 11, your experience on the battlefield has made your mastery of your skills and feats of heroism superior to any other warrior's. You increase your proficiency bonus by +1.
    At level 20 you increase your proficiency bonus by a further +1

    ((I would definitely recommend keeping this at level 20, given how meh a fourth attack is, this would be a rather welcome capstone buff. However, the level 11 boost is just to make fighters feel better, and will probably be a bit strong.
    Not that I think it matters if you give fighters said boost, seeing as wizards can cast things like clone or magic jar, your paladin is blinding or banishing people with smites, and barbarians have been laughing at death since level 3. It gives the fighter its special niche of super proficiency/ accuracy on its flurry of steel and death.))

    Battlemaster
    Honestly, Battlemaster is in a good place. Really, only one thing could be fixed.

    Relentless: Procs whenever you begin your turn and have no superiority dice.

    Champion
    Again, only one feature really needs fixing, and it's a simple one at that.

    Remarkable athlete: (Change to) You may add half of your proficiency bonus to all Strength, Dexterity and Constitution checks. If you are proficient in the check already, add half of your proficiency bonus to the check again.

    ((Note, this version of remarkable athlete with battle hardened is... Really rather good. Basically expertise in proficient checks once you hit level 20))

    Eldritch knight
    And here is our problem child. Which again just needs one quick change to really "work".

    Spellcasting: (change under spells known to) You may choose any two wizard magic schools to learn your spells from. Once made, your choice may not be changed. (The 4 "any school" spells still exist, but you are not locked into abjuration & evocation for everything else).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    I like it! Nice little boosts to a few things without increasing the overall power level too too much. I'd probably go for option 2 for indomitable just to make things simpler. And because it (functionally) gives a player Legendary Saves, which is pretty cool-sounding.

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    I feel like the Profiency bonus makes Fighters better generalists while Rogues (with Expertise) are better specialists.

    Now, there is a slight issue-this makes a level 11 Fighter/Rogue X or Bard X the best at skills. Not neccessarily bad... But just seems a bit odd.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    Love it 100%.

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGolem View Post
    I like it! Nice little boosts to a few things without increasing the overall power level too too much. I'd probably go for option 2 for indomitable just to make things simpler. And because it (functionally) gives a player Legendary Saves, which is pretty cool-sounding.
    I like number 1 better myself beccause it gives the fighter a little bit more consistency spiked with moments of awesome (which to me fits the flavor of fighter in this edition a bit better), but yeah, I can definitely see the appeal of slowly becoming a psuedo-legendary critter, which is why I thought I would bring up the option.

    Quote Originally Posted by JNAProductions View Post
    I feel like the Profiency bonus makes Fighters better generalists while Rogues (with Expertise) are better specialists.

    Now, there is a slight issue-this makes a level 11 Fighter/Rogue X or Bard X the best at skills. Not neccessarily bad... But just seems a bit odd.
    Fighters to me are supposed to be the best at general consistency, so glad to know I nailed that bit at least!

    As for a fusion with a rogue or bard... yeah, I can see the appeal of such a multiclass with Battle Hardened in play. It is a rather hefty investment for a rogue or bard, however, and if a fighter splashes a level of either they pay for it by not getting their 4th attack or the other +1 general prof bonus at the very least. So it's a trade between end-game offense and saves vs end-game expertise skills. I sort of like that dynamic. *Shrugs*

    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunkette View Post
    Love it 100%.
    Thank yah much!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    Totally on board with these tweaks.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    Thank you very much too!

    Now then, before I declare this all well and good, anyone have any other comments/ concerns that they feel I missed above?

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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    I like option 1 of indomitable. Option 2 is pretty much legendary resistance, which I think should stay with boss like monsters
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    I feel that the extra skill isn't the best idea for a fighter. At the moment, there are 3 official classes that get 3 or more skills, and they are ones that are actually relatively focused on skill use. The fighter is not a "skiller" character, so this doesn't fit for them

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    Default Re: 5e fighter tweaks, because errybody seems to be doing them

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius Victis View Post
    I feel that the extra skill isn't the best idea for a fighter. At the moment, there are 3 official classes that get 3 or more skills, and they are ones that are actually relatively focused on skill use. The fighter is not a "skiller" character, so this doesn't fit for them
    Oh hey, a comment that I missed because it never popped up in my subscription feed! Yaaaaaay... but I suppose I will address this.

    To me, there isn't really a narrative reason why a fighter should not have 3 skills. True, they are probably from a military background or something simpler that a rogue, ranger or bard... but while they may not be exceptionally skilled at something, the fighter should have ample time on their hands to devote to a study or a hobby. They aren't really that much more skilled than a barbarian or a ranger at combat, and since that is literally all that the fighter class is based around it makes sense for them to have access to 3 skills over-all.

    Mechanically, it just lets fighters do more in the narrative aspect of the game. It doesn't make them as skilled as the ranger, rogue or bard (who get expertise and more skills, or favored enemies/ terrain to just make them better at those skills), but it does make them a bit better at exploration than an untrained, commonly undisciplined Barbarian (who doesn't choose a totem that helps them in that field). Which, since barbarians are actually tougher and better in combat, makes sense from a balance perspective.

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