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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXIX. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a full 20-level build for your entry. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played from 1-20 in a real game. Traditionally contestants give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20, as well as a "sweet spot" of their choosing that represents what they believe to be the high point of the build. The purpose of these snapshots is not just to showcase your use of the SI, it is to demonstrate that your character is playable at every level. For this reason, it's still worth giving a snapshot before you have entered the SI.

    Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was 60 threads ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
    NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, July 19th, 2015 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, August 2nd, 2015 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities

    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code immediately below (spoiler)
    Spoiler
    Show
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This month we have a legendarily bad class for you. So bad and so famous that I can't believe it hasn't been used yet. Your challenge for this contest [email protected]
    Complete Warrior's Order of the Bow Initiate!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honourable mention. The honourable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honourable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

    Allez, optimiser!

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Spoiler: The First Fifty
    Show
    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
    Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
    Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus
    Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger

    Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
    Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight
    Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite
    Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer
    Iron Chef LV: Mountebank
    Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender
    Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner
    Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword
    Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna
    Iron Chef LX: Lasher
    Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego
    Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord
    Iron Cheff LXIII: WItchborn Binder
    Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord
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    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    FAQ:
    Q: What's this even about?
    A: I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
    A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    Q: What about 3.0 materials?
    A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
    A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    Q: What about online sources in general?
    A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
    A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
    A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
    A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

    Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
    A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armour, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favourably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Jeez! You weren't kidding. I'm not so sure about this one.

    EDIT: Are you kidding me?! A dead level? In a class like this? That's just cruel.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2015-07-03 at 06:01 PM.
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    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I will finish my dish this round!
    Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Ew. Ah well, I didn't do anything last round, so I'm in to either judge or cook.

    It's a crying shame what they did to the old 3.0 OotBI. That was actually sort of a cool class. The 3.5 one is an abomination.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Hmmm. On the vast and subjective Qualitative Spectrum of Bad Prestige Classes, this one seems pretty far removed from the "has-confusing-abilities-are-hard-to-use-properly" end of things, and leans much more heavily toward "only-provides-small-numerical-bonuses-that-suck-no-matter-what." I immediately have an idea, but I'm worried everybody else has the same idea.

    I will likely either compete or judge this round. We'll see which.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Ranks in Knowledge Religion for a mundane class? Qualifying for this is some sort of bizarre trial.
    This class requires rapid shot.

    For a class that doesn't use full attacks.

    I'm ok. I can deal with this.

    Last edited by The Viscount; 2015-07-03 at 07:03 PM.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    Hmmm. On the vast and subjective Qualitative Spectrum of Bad Prestige Classes, this one seems pretty far removed from the "has-confusing-abilities-are-hard-to-use-properly" end of things, and leans much more heavily toward "only-provides-small-numerical-bonuses-that-suck-no-matter-what." I immediately have an idea, but I'm worried everybody else has the same idea.

    I will likely either compete or judge this round. We'll see which.
    I wish it provided bonuses. It requires rapid shot, and then forbids you from using the full attack action.

    when it comes to archers, you're probably right. there's precious little support for them, so we'll likely see a lot of overlap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    In all likelihood, I'm in this round as a contestant (no doubt replicating A_S's idea).
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I have a crazy idea for this. I just hope it works out.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadasadoor View Post
    I have a crazy idea for this. I just hope it works out.
    good luck with whatever it is.

    can we... can we talk about the writeup for this class for a minute?

    Quote Originally Posted by order of the bow initiate
    When asked, “What is Truth?,” an initiate of the Order of the
    Bow picks up his bow, fires an arrow and, without saying a word, lets his mastery of the weapon serve as the gauge of the archer’s progress along the way.
    This is hilarious. Can you imagine someone actually acting this way? Is this part of your training? Is it some kind of rule like vampires picking up mustard seeds? Can you disable an OOTBI by asking him this to make him fire at an inopportune time? In a company of OOTBIs, does their commander stand behind them saying "what is truth?" like a coxswain in order to have them launch volleys in time with one another?

    so many questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I love this terrible PrC. I will judge and post criteria by July 12th.
    Last edited by ZamielVanWeber; 2015-07-03 at 11:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Ranks in Knowledge Religion for a mundane class? Qualifying for this is some sort of bizarre trial.
    Perhaps they need to contemplate what sort of god would allow this class to exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    This is hilarious. Can you imagine someone actually acting this way? Is this part of your training? Is it some kind of rule like vampires picking up mustard seeds? Can you disable an OOTBI by asking him this to make him fire at an inopportune time? In a company of OOTBIs, does their commander stand behind them saying "what is truth?" like a coxswain in order to have them launch volleys in time with one another?
    I imagine at some point you start getting magic mouths involved.

    Well, I think I've got a stub, but holy hell. I knew this class sucked, but with every little detail it finds a new and exciting way to suck more. It is utterly devoid of redeeming qualities.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I'd like a definition of "ranged Weapon" ... is it only explictly weapons or does it include other kinds of ranged attacks (such as weaponlike spells or ranged natural attacks)?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    I'd like a definition of "ranged Weapon" ... is it only explictly weapons or does it include other kinds of ranged attacks (such as weaponlike spells or ranged natural attacks)?
    Any spell that requires an attack roll and deals damage functions as a weapon in certain respects.
    As a standard action, an initiate may make a single precisely aimed attack with a ranged weapon, dealing an extra 1d8 points of damage if the attack hits.
    It seems to me that "with a ranged weapon" and "functions as a weapon in certain respects" isn't a very close match. Let's take an example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid Shot
    Benefit: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon.
    Should you be able to cast extra weaponlike spells for having a high BAB, and should taking Rapid Shot also let you cast an extra weaponlike spell?

    I think the clear answer is "no".

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    i think you're warping the question to fit your preconcived notions...

    obiously your example doesn't work as Casting a spell aren't able to be rapid shot, If you were able to attack more than once with the same cast spell i'd lean towards yes, but if you have to cast the spell each time you attack then no. But you can use Weapon Focus/Weapon Finesse which are defined as getting a bonus to a certain weapon (or kind of weapon), and use this bonus for Weaponlike spells just fine

    Ranged Precision is like Point Blank Shot and Precise shot (both of which explicitly works with weaponlike spells, as per Complete Arcane), not like Rapid Shot
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-07-04 at 03:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    I'd like a definition of "ranged Weapon" ... is it only explictly weapons or does it include other kinds of ranged attacks (such as weaponlike spells or ranged natural attacks)?
    when we ask for a ruling, we're asking the chair, that's part of her role.

    so you mean something like scorching ray, which gives multiple rays for one standard action? that's a good question. might get us some variety in this round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    when we ask for a ruling, we're asking the chair, that's part of her role.

    so you mean something like scorching ray, which gives multiple rays for one standard action? that's a good question. might get us some variety in this round.
    Scorching Ray wouldn't work, because it's competing for your standard action with Ranged Precision, which makes an attack as a standard action, rather than applying to attacks made as standard actions. It'd have to be some sort of spell that gave you a ray attack or similar that you could then just use as a weapon.

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    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Scorching Ray wouldn't work, because it's competing for your standard action with Ranged Precision, which makes an attack as a standard action, rather than applying to attacks made as standard actions. It'd have to be some sort of spell that gave you a ray attack or similar that you could then just use as a weapon.
    This. I'm ruling that Ranged Precision would work with weaponlike spells (assuming it works with all ranged weapons - I thought it was just bows, but I'm AFB), but that the standard action it requires is incompatible with the standard action needed to cast the spell. If you can find a spell that grants you a ranged attack that's usable as a normal attack, it's usable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    This class hurts me.

    Precision shot is a worse version of skirmish (which is already terrible outside of a dedicated Swift Hunter build), Close Combat lets you potentially dodge an attack that would only come up if you were using a ranged weapon in melee (which mitigates the biggest advantage ranged has over melee), has a whole +2 to attack with a specific ranged weapon, has another +2 to attack from Sharp-Shooting (but only against targets that have cover, and there's tons of better ways to get around that), and Extended Precision is a worse version of two separate spells from Complete Adventurer (one of them first level and on several different lists). Combine all that with the dead level, the two separate pre-reqs that make no sense, terrible skill points, and no casting whatsoever, this is all-around terrible. And all of that wouldn't be so bad if we were just dipping into it, or even just taking all 10 levels and then ignoring everything it gave us. But no, this is Iron Chef: we have to take every level, stay true to the fluff, and use the class' abilities to their fullest potential, or our score gets docked.

    This class hurts me.

    ...

    Oh yeah, I guess I might end up judging this. I've set the bar low enough to trip over, so I probably won't be that hard to please. Yippee.


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    an archer SI .. interesting

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I'm going to admit that, by the metrics judges typically apply to IC builds, I don't see how a 5 in Originality is possible with this PrC, given its combined BAB and Feat prerequisites and the general tendency for both 'expected entry methods' and 'delayed entry' to receive deductions.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'm going to admit that, by the metrics judges typically apply to IC builds, I don't see how a 5 in Originality is possible with this PrC, given its combined BAB and Feat prerequisites and the general tendency for both 'expected entry methods' and 'delayed entry' to receive deductions.
    This is a good point. Normally I judge Zinc Saucier where giving a 4+ in originality is easy. I will have to consider this in my criteria, thank you.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    I... have an idea that I think might get a good score in Originality, if nothing else.
    Illumian Dread Necromancer Lich avatar by Tinymushroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...

    Blood~

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    got a number of interesting ways to do this ... don't think any of them survive the fluff all that well, but theres the proverb about omelette and eggs...

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    This. I'm ruling that Ranged Precision would work with weaponlike spells (assuming it works with all ranged weapons - I thought it was just bows, but I'm AFB), but that the standard action it requires is incompatible with the standard action needed to cast the spell. If you can find a spell that grants you a ranged attack that's usable as a normal attack, it's usable.
    thank you for the ruling. so you mean something like produce flame would work, but scorching ray for example would not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'm going to admit that, by the metrics judges typically apply to IC builds, I don't see how a 5 in Originality is possible with this PrC, given its combined BAB and Feat prerequisites and the general tendency for both 'expected entry methods' and 'delayed entry' to receive deductions.
    I agree 100% with this. Maybe a "no deductions for using the same classes as others" addendum this round only, or similar?
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    This. I'm ruling that Ranged Precision would work with weaponlike spells (assuming it works with all ranged weapons - I thought it was just bows, but I'm AFB), but that the standard action it requires is incompatible with the standard action needed to cast the spell. If you can find a spell that grants you a ranged attack that's usable as a normal attack, it's usable.
    It does indeed work with any ranged weapon, but only if you have the Weapon Focus feat for the weapon in question. So you can use it with a non-bow if you're willing to take Weapon Focus twice.

    Ranged Precision really is just about as bad as it gets for a signature class ability this side of Risen Martyr.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    This class hurts me.

    Precision shot is a worse version of skirmish (which is already terrible outside of a dedicated Swift Hunter build), Close Combat lets you potentially dodge an attack that would only come up if you were using a ranged weapon in melee (which mitigates the biggest advantage ranged has over melee), has a whole +2 to attack with a specific ranged weapon, has another +2 to attack from Sharp-Shooting (but only against targets that have cover, and there's tons of better ways to get around that), and Extended Precision is a worse version of two separate spells from Complete Adventurer (one of them first level and on several different lists). Combine all that with the dead level, the two separate pre-reqs that make no sense, terrible skill points, and no casting whatsoever, this is all-around terrible. And all of that wouldn't be so bad if we were just dipping into it, or even just taking all 10 levels and then ignoring everything it gave us. But no, this is Iron Chef: we have to take every level, stay true to the fluff, and use the class' abilities to their fullest potential, or our score gets docked.

    This class hurts me.

    ...

    Oh yeah, I guess I might end up judging this. I've set the bar low enough to trip over, so I probably won't be that hard to please. Yippee.
    Even as a dip class, OotBI is really, really bad because of the feat tax it makes you pay. I've spent a good bit of time on these forums extolling the many and various ways in which you could be getting Arrow Mind and other useful things besides for the same number of levels or less in threads where someone thought that going OotBI for Close Combat Shot was a good idea.

    One day, in such a thread, the OP pointed me toward the old 3.0 version of OotBI, which their DM was letting them use. It's not a great class, but it's not a terribly bad one either, and it has some unique/interesting abilities. Entry into the class is restrictive due to the Weapon Specialization requirement (though not nearly as bad as some we've had), but it would have otherwise made a great SI.

    It's not just the skill points that are bad. The skill list is also terrible. Everything about this class hates you.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-07-04 at 01:45 PM.

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  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    This class hurts me.

    Precision shot is a worse version of skirmish (which is already terrible outside of a dedicated Swift Hunter build), Close Combat lets you potentially dodge an attack that would only come up if you were using a ranged weapon in melee (which mitigates the biggest advantage ranged has over melee), has a whole +2 to attack with a specific ranged weapon, has another +2 to attack from Sharp-Shooting (but only against targets that have cover, and there's tons of better ways to get around that), and Extended Precision is a worse version of two separate spells from Complete Adventurer (one of them first level and on several different lists). Combine all that with the dead level, the two separate pre-reqs that make no sense, terrible skill points, and no casting whatsoever, this is all-around terrible. And all of that wouldn't be so bad if we were just dipping into it, or even just taking all 10 levels and then ignoring everything it gave us. But no, this is Iron Chef: we have to take every level, stay true to the fluff, and use the class' abilities to their fullest potential, or our score gets docked.

    This class hurts me.

    ...

    Oh yeah, I guess I might end up judging this. I've set the bar low enough to trip over, so I probably won't be that hard to please. Yippee.
    and swift hunter is hardly viable here due to at least 10 levels that won't progres anything.

    I especially love full BA and then preventing you from full attacking. and can we talk about how you need rapid shot but can't use it?


    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    It does indeed work with any ranged weapon, but only if you have the Weapon Focus feat for the weapon in question. So you can use it with a non-bow if you're willing to take Weapon Focus twice.

    Ranged Precision really is just about as bad as it gets for a signature class ability this side of Risen Martyr.

    Even as a dip class, OotBI is really, really bad because of the feat tax it makes you pay. I've spent a good bit of time on these forums extolling the many and various ways in which you could be getting Arrow Mind and other useful things besides for the same number of levels or less in threads where someone thought that going OotBI for Close Combat Shot was a good idea.

    One day, in such a thread, the OP pointed me toward the old 3.0 version of OotBI, which their DM was letting them use. It's not a great class, but it's not a terribly bad one either, and it has some unique/interesting abilities. Entry into the class is restrictive due to the Weapon Specialization requirement (though not nearly as bad as some we've had), but it would have otherwise made a great SI.

    It's not just the skill points that are bad. The skill list is also terrible. Everything about this class hates you.
    weapon focus again on top of 4 prereq feats?

    yeah I feel like we might need to make some concessions with originality this round.

    yeah it does hate you. I really like 'religion as contemplating what kind of god allowed this class to exist."
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  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    My first IC Comp. was Dwarven Defender. It's a terrible PrC, but it's at least really, really good at something. It's not something any PC would want to be good at, but at least the DD is actually good at that thing. This claims to be good at something terrible, and it actually makes you worse at it. This class makes mundane archery worse. That's a ****ing accomplishment.


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXX

    My rule of thumb on what spells and abilities you can use with Ranged Precision, by the way, is "can you make iterative attacks with it? "
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