What would this guy's alignment be?

[Koga]

Ok, The Koga is in a heavy magic campaign, and sense there's a fair number of alignment based spells. This could pose as a problem. And really the GM doesn't care what The Koga puts, just puts an alignment. But The Koga never really cared about alignment, only rping. So anything is fine. What would you think this guy would constitute as?

#1: He as well as all the other PCs are in the military. Unlike them however, this guy LIKES being in the military. And thinks it's civillians who are wrong and backward. He's misanthropic and sees civillians as brain-dead monkies who work simply to get ahold of some money so they can engage in more self indulgence. No desire to help thier community, just self-serving parasites.


#2: The belief seems to be the military is there to serve and protect. However, this character realizes that is a self-contradictory dogma. Those that serve do not protect, and those that protect do not serve. Sense we seem to be alot better at protecting, it is the non-state offical's responsibility to do thier part and serve. That includes being cooperative and not giving backtalk.

#3: He's not the most clever guy, when he was trying to get information on illegal weapons he whisperd to some people "hey, you wouldn't happen to know where I could get some illegal weapons would you? I'd be willing to pay alot of money!"

#4: Despite there being magic and guns, he uses poison. Because he's curious about how the chemichals will react in the human body. Death isn't his intention, neither is pain, but both are intreaguing aspects and suprises to the result of being poisoned. He wants to learn the full extent of how dangerous these weapons can be. As well as the weapons we are after by the terrorists. But once in the hands of the military he'll be able to findout won't he?

#5: Because of the general (albeit not unwarranted) distrust of the state, this guy has gone out of his way to sabatoge some people. Choosing just random people and poisoning thier drinks, to establish a red herring of "the terrorists are eveywhere!" so out of fear and ignorance, they'll cooperate and stop looking down on the state. Not to meation he gets to see upclose the effects of biological weapons: his specialty.

#6: Despite being very objective in views, he doesn't look at things in a good and evil perspective, more of a useful and useless perspective. Everyone has a duty, everyone is expected to follow that duty, failure to do so is punishable by summary execution.

#7: Despite how he'd like nothing more then to flipout and kill everyone in the room (theoreticaly then he'd kill the enemy), doing so would be counter-productive. Alot of workers would be needlessly slaughterd, not to meation the grovveling he'd have to hear from his supiriors afterward. He doesn't have cheese for that whine.

#8: Even though he's kindof smug and canniving, he's never particularly malice. It's just not in his character, and even if it were, he understands he's a weakling. He may be a poison-expert, but he has horrible physichal stats. Making him a walkng target for somebody, anybody's wrath.

#9: He doesn't get along with his comrades too well, but he does see them as useful to the cause, and as such gives them the respect of life and liberty. Most of his beef with them is thier lack of total submission to his will;

"We can't just go around asking questions and pointing guns to thier face, they're scared enough as it is seeing several highly trained soldiers in the same place."

"What do they have to be scared of? We're here for thier own good! I suppose they'd be less scared if we took away thier plumbing? Thier electrcity? Thier homless shelters? We go out of our way to give them life and hope and this is how they repay us, don't tell me how to do my job PRIVATE..."

#10: That's another thing. He always empahsizes on his team-mates lowrank, despite him being a private himself. Albeit he's a special ops private, and thinks this makes him supirior to others. It's not what the goverment thinks that validates his supirority, but the fact that they are almost as dense-headed as the civvilians!

#11: His ultimate goal is to create marshal law. If only out of fear and ignorance, everyone will do thier part for their community. We will be a utopia, one way or another...

#12: Just to prove a point, he once threw a gold coin, knowing that atleast one of the people who saw it would go and grab for it. Even though he openly said they would. Because it's in the simple-minded's nature to be self-serving. And that's what money is all about. Distanting yourself from family and friends in favor of establishing your own selfish rule. It turns you into a scavenging jackal, crawling in the mud, and this was perfect symbolism of that digging your fingers into the dirt trying to get that gold coin.

All in all he seems very distant from normal human emotions, doesn't understand social concepts too well, and has a supiority complex. And as you can tell from his distaste for opinionated or otherwise self-serving thoughts, and a distrust for consumerism as a whole.. He's an oldschool communist.

[Khoran]

On the Ethical Scale, this guy is Lawful. Painfully so. As for Moral Alignment: He seems to be on the border between Neutral and Evil, or Evil with Neutral tendancies. His outlook is very grim, and from how you describe him, it sounds like he has no moral qualms about oppressing people to see that order is maintained. However, he also dosn't seem overly cruel at the same time.2q

[KIDS]

I think that Lawful Neutral or True Neutral describes him best.
And oh, nice concept there. It was a good read.

[Grey Watcher]

I'm going to second Khoran.

He's definitely Lawful, even his occaisional misuse and abuse of poisons and such is somewhat reckless and outside the bounds of Lawful behavior, his overall personality, outlook, motives, and views scream Lawful at the top of their lungs.

Good vs. Evil: Well, he's definitely not Good. Frightening, harming, and even killing innocents to prove a point is definitely non-Good behavior. I really can't call him on being Neutral or Evil, he dances along the border pretty neatly (he's cruelty isn't for cruelty's sake, even if it is somewhat self-serving in the end (aggrandizing the military, of which he's a part)).

I'd be inclined to call him Lawful Evil, but if I were the DM I could be talked into calling him Neutral, with the caveat that he's starting out dangerously close to slipping into full-blown Evil.

[Ulzgoroth]

Er, evil with evil tendencies seems more like it. He considers sentient life completely expendable beyond the usefulness of having it around, yes? What exactly do you have to do to be evil if that isn't it?

Seems very Lawful Evil. He's got a big picture, and he's more than willing to trample whoever he needs to for it.

[Koga]

lol, the GM's already talking to The Koga privately about it. XD

"I don't know what to call you, but please put something in your alignment, just not-good, cause that's deffinitely not it.

I want to say chaotic neutral, what with your gnack for stirring up panick and chaos... but I know that's your intention, so much as it is a motivation get people to do what you want them to do..."

[Cocktail Umbrellas]

I'd say Lawful Neutral.

Lawful for sure in any case. With this description, I don't see how anyone could see him as chaotic, too much emphasis on duty

Everyone has a duty, everyone is expected to follow that duty, failure to do so is punishable by summary execution

and perhaps moreso:

His ultimate goal is to create marshal law

^_^

Neutral just because he seems to have some respect for life at this point (that bit about "respect of life and liberty") though he has more than a few evil tendencies. Lawful Neutral tinged with evil. Seems the kinda guy that would fit in with the folks of Acheron, so long as his tendencies to not fit in with a group aren't too ridiculous hehe ^_^ Aaaanyway that was off topic.

Neato character, good luck!

[ArmorArmadillo]

He's Neutral Evil;
He's on the border of Lawful because he's dedicated to martial law and the military, but his behavior shows that he isn't dedicated to order so much as power. Also, his dedication is secondary to his feelings of superiority.

He's as Evil as can be however, he's a total sociopath. He lives in an emotional vacuum and considers all other life inferior, he has a god complex and randomly poisons people to express his mastery over life.

Evil. Evil. Evil.

[Lemur]

Lawful Evil, definitely. For most of the description, I could see the argument towards a more neutral alignment, but poisoning people to sow fear and indulge his curiosities? That's not the kind of thing you can do and avoid being evil.

[Darkxarth]

He's Neutral Evil;
He's on the border of Lawful because he's dedicated to martial law and the military, but his behavior shows that he isn't dedicated to order so much as power. Also, his dedication is secondary to his feelings of superiority.

He's as Evil as can be however, he's a total sociopath. He lives in an emotional vacuum and considers all other life inferior, he has a god complex and randomly poisons people to express his mastery over life.

Evil. Evil. Evil.

I second this. He's Neutral Evil. Because although he's into duty and order, he has a chaotic side that balances it out.

he'd like nothing more then to flipout and kill everyone in the room

Choosing just random people and poisoning thier drinks

Those are Chaotic Evil acts, even if it is to "throw red herrings and suspicion" among the troops about terrorists.

And yes, I thought he was Neutral at first, but the more I read the more I realized that he was pure evil. Interesting character though.

[Koga]

He's Neutral Evil;
He's on the border of Lawful because he's dedicated to martial law and the military, but his behavior shows that he isn't dedicated to order so much as power. Also, his dedication is secondary to his feelings of superiority.

He's as Evil as can be however, he's a total sociopath. He lives in an emotional vacuum and considers all other life inferior, he has a god complex and randomly poisons people to express his mastery over life.

Evil. Evil. Evil.

One of the players is saying that now too do to The Koga directly disregarding orders of a supirior officer. He doesn't know if he meant his orders (because he was under the impression we were all equal rank) or the letter we got.

If the latter, then that is subjective commandment. As long as we get the job done it shouldn't matter what we do..

If the former, then that was completely out of character lack of knowledge of the atmosphere. More then likely The Koga still would not have listend, but had tried harder to smooth-talk the commanding officer.

[Koga]

Crap, he just realized The Koga is the only one who can't cast spells in this group...

You know maybe pissing everybody off wasn't such a good idea...


AH WELL! They wouldn't dare harm The Koga! Less they wanna become evil too. Mwahahah!

Don't know why this guy keeps friggin lecturing The Koga, his alignment is true neutral. TRUE NEUTRAL!

He should picking his nose, eating a burritto, and stepping off The Koga's grill!

[PaladinBoy]

Lawful Evil.

The martial law bit and the everyone has a duty bit make me see him as Lawful.

The random poisonings? Evil. Through and through.

[The_Werebear]

Very Lawful, with a few slips towards chaos. However, that is justifiable to law since his goals are lawful.

Evil out of convenience. He isn't evil for evil's sake, but evil because it is convenient and easy.

[headwarpage]

Evil, without a doubt, for the reasons others have stated.

I'm going to say LE, but you could make a case for NE, depending on how you interpret the Law-Chaos axis. I would say that although he has some Chaotic urges (killing everybody in the room), the fact that he doesn't act on them because it wouldn't be practical makes him Lawful. He's just too calculating to be anything else, in my mind.

Alternately, you could say TN, based on the argument that he's a psychopath, and incapable of actually making ethical distinctions. As far as I can tell, it's roughly the same argument WotC uses to make animals Neutral.(Psychopath may not be the exact term I want, but my psych knowledge is limited, and you get the idea.) Not that you should actually do that, but I'm amused by the idea of a loophole like that in the cosmic balance of the alignment system.

[SKarious]

I'd say Lawful Evil as well.
He believes in an ordered society, and puts great emphasis on rank = Lawful.
He considers others "expendable" and inferior, and doesn't hesitate to threaten or use them = Evil.
Even his "random" poisonings are done for a greater cause - increasing the power of the military.

definitely LE.

[thorgrim29]

Well, he's a darksider for sure, the very exemple of more or less noble ideal twisted into evil, so neutral or or lawfull evil seem appropriate.

[Jasdoif]

I would definitely say Lawful Evil. Here's the key points to my decision:

#1: He as well as all the other PCs are in the military. Unlike them however, this guy LIKES being in the military. And thinks it's civillians who are wrong and backward. He's misanthropic and sees civillians as brain-dead monkies who work simply to get ahold of some money so they can engage in more self indulgence. No desire to help thier community, just self-serving parasites.

Suggests Lawful, as the military is generally disciplined, and the self-indulgence he loathes is not.

#5: Because of the general (albeit not unwarranted) distrust of the state, this guy has gone out of his way to sabatoge some people. Choosing just random people and poisoning thier drinks, to establish a red herring of "the terrorists are eveywhere!" so out of fear and ignorance, they'll cooperate and stop looking down on the state. Not to meation he gets to see upclose the effects of biological weapons: his specialty.

Killing random people is Evil.

#6: Despite being very objective in views, he doesn't look at things in a good and evil perspective, more of a useful and useless perspective. Everyone has a duty, everyone is expected to follow that duty, failure to do so is punishable by summary execution.

"Everyone has a duty and must do it" is a Lawful view.

#7: Despite how he'd like nothing more then to flipout and kill everyone in the room (theoreticaly then he'd kill the enemy), doing so would be counter-productive. Alot of workers would be needlessly slaughterd, not to meation the grovveling he'd have to hear from his supiriors afterward. He doesn't have cheese for that whine.

Lawful, his belief that workers are needed overriding his impulse to kill everyone.

#11: His ultimate goal is to create marshal law. If only out of fear and ignorance, everyone will do thier part for their community. We will be a utopia, one way or another...

Lawful (since it establishes order) and Evil (since "out of fear and ignorance" indicates he doesn't care whether the people approve or benefit, quite the opposite of altruism).

[Saph]

Lawful Evil, definitely. Just look at these two:

#5: Because of the general (albeit not unwarranted) distrust of the state, this guy has gone out of his way to sabatoge some people. Choosing just random people and poisoning thier drinks, to establish a red herring of "the terrorists are eveywhere!" so out of fear and ignorance, they'll cooperate and stop looking down on the state. Not to meation he gets to see upclose the effects of biological weapons: his specialty.

#6: Despite being very objective in views, he doesn't look at things in a good and evil perspective, more of a useful and useless perspective. Everyone has a duty, everyone is expected to follow that duty, failure to do so is punishable by summary execution.

He strikes me as almost a picture-perfect Lawful Evil character. I can see why some people might say Neutral Evil, but he's way too comfortable with authority and law to be merely neutral on the Law-Chaos axis.

- Saph

[lsfreak]

This is one of those cases where the alignment system doesn't do a character justice :P Too many people seem to assume he's after power, I certainly don't see that as all.

I think that's probably biggest question: is he after power, or whether he's trying to better life as a whole (utopia at any cost). If it's the former I'd definitely argue evil; however, if it's to forward a goal of "utopia," I'd argue lawful neutral or even true neutral. I supposed it also depends on what martial law means - is martial law being put in place for the purpose, however covertly, to take advantage of the people, or protect and better them?

If only out of fear and ignorance, everyone will do thier part for their community.

Does this mean he would prefer out of feeling of duty, but ignorance would work just as well? I wouldn't immediately label this as evil, especially if it's that he'd prefer a sense of duty, and would label such a neutral.

Even though he's kindof smug and canniving, he's never particularly malice. It's just not in his character

I think this points to the neutral side of things as well. With the whole useful-useless view on morality, this definitely ties in.

I'm not sure the poison experimentation can be claimed as evil, though poisoning random people certainly can be.

Number 7 doesn't seem to fit in with the his other traits very well... maybe it's just me.

The big reason the D&D system doesn't cover this is that it fails to take into intention. If he's truly after bettering society, I'd say he's Lawful Neutral, or even True neutral if he's lost himself completely to the cause. Based purely on actions, he's undoubtedly Lawful Evil, but I definitely feel there's more to this character than can be described by D&D alignment.

Of course, maybe I'm off base and he really is after power :P

[Koga]

The Koga is also unsastisfied with the effects of cyanide in the d20 srd.

The Koga knows a fair amount about chemistry. This is how cynaide should look.

Cyanide
Fortitude DC: 18
Innitial damage: 1d2 con damage and 1d2 wisdom damage.
Secondary damage: Deafness.

This is how it is.

Cynaide
Fortitude DC: 15
Innitial damage: 1d6 con damage.
Secondary damage: 2d6 con damage.

Cyanide really isn't all that threatning. It just messes up your metabolism and ability to throughly use your body.

[LordRahl]

In my opinion this guy really can't get more evil. I define evil as treating other sentient beings as if they aren't an end in themselves, as if they have no will of their own, as if their only purpose is to serve your wants or needs. This guy obviously doesn't give a fig for anyone else's wants or needs, just as long as it's useful to him. Evil. On the law spectrum I'm not sure. He seems to think along lawful guidelines, but when it comes to acting he doesn't care about the law. In my opinion he's NE or CE and just deluding himself into thinking it's all for the greater good. When it comes down to it it's what you do that makes you good or evil/lawful or chaotic, not what you say or think.

[Saph]

I'm not sure the poison experimentation can be claimed as evil, though poisoning random people certainly can be.

No, really? It can be claimed as evil? Ya think? :P

Honestly, if poisoning random innocent people DOESN'T put a person into the Evil camp, I'd hate to know what does. It's almost like Koga went out of his way to be over-the-top evil with that one.

- Saph

[Koga]

Bleh, a sacrifice had to be made to get the people to submit to us officers. Someone had to die to make them scared and huddle together like sheep.


Unfourtanately... ehhh.... that didn't go as planned LOL...

Now everyone is acting like "nothing bad happend till the military showedup!"

And The Koga's thinking "crap! Why doesn't The Koga's plans ever work?! ; _ ;"

so now he's trying to use crappy psychological treatment.
"If you don't help us more people will die, do you want that to happen?! What if that was your son eh?! We carry the burden of these lives so you don't have too! All we ask is your cooperation!"

Yeah, The Koga can lay it on thick like butter. The players don't even know The Koga poisoned the guy, they just think he's taking advantage of the oppurtunity.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Evil doesn't always have to be intentional;
If someone is so megomaniacal that they believe that everyone is inferior to them and may be sacrificed casually to serve some idea of Utopia that he invented: that is horribly evil. This is the thinking behind genocide.

Also, adding an article before your name ("The" Koga) is pretty evil.

[Koga]

Well it's pretty much given The Koga is evil. Really now it's just a matter of law vs chaos. XP

[EvilElitest]

The big reason the D&D system doesn't cover this is that it fails to take into intention. If he's truly after bettering society, I'd say he's Lawful Neutral, or even True neutral if he's lost himself completely to the cause. Based purely on actions, he's undoubtedly Lawful Evil, but I definitely feel there's more to this character than can be described by D&D alignment.

Of course, maybe I'm off base and he really is after power :

Intent is meanenless for making somebody good or neutral, only evil people are judge by intent, and that is only to make them evil, not visa versa. he is evil because of actions

Now he is Not
LG, Duh
NG, Duh
CG, no, you think?
LN, close but he uses evil methods and his view of humans is very evil
N, Nope, to focused on Law
CN, to law inclined
LE, Most likely, he is very lawful and belives in matail law, but he is by nature evil. Like the mummy guy from the Kenshin series
NE, possible, he borders those two aligments, but to much law to make him so, but he could easily become so
CE, nope
And being insane does not make you excused from aligments, BOVD makes that clear, you are only excused from aligments if you have an int of 3 or lower
from,
EE

[Koga]

On the plus-side, the lawful neutral is being somewhat helpful. Unlike the rest of those ungrateful bastards!

[Khoran]

you are only excused from aligments if you have an int of 3 or lower
from,
EE

I thought it was anything below a 3, since a 3 is considered intelligent, where as a 1 and 2 are animal intelligence.

[Tor the Fallen]

Lawful: Military service, likes structure, stability, heirarchy and the State. Simplistic utilitarian world view.

Evil: Terrorism for the state. Doesn't care about others.