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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Mortals explode with to much positive via being healed to literal death. So should undead implode with to much negative energy exceeding there own health?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    I don't think it's written in the RAW anywhere, but I could see that being a reasonable house rule, at least for consistency's sake.

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    Crake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    If you're trying to emulate the positive energy plane for living creatures, I believe it's when they get "overhealed" equal to their HP. Otherwise, the easiest way to kill an undead would be to simply touch it with inflict minor wounds, and bam, implode. The only issue here is that negative energy does not actually grant an undead temporary HP like the positive energy plane did for living creatures, so if you wanted to use this rule, you'd need to say that overhealing done to an undead via negative energy grants it stacking temporary hp, up to it's normal HP maximum, at which point it implodes.

    Edit: It's worth noting that only the positive energy plane does that to living creatures, no amount of cure spell spamming will cause a creature to explode.
    Last edited by Crake; 2015-07-11 at 03:03 AM.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3N3xtGuy View Post
    Mortals explode with to much positive via being healed to literal death. So should undead implode with to much negative energy exceeding there own health?
    No. Animated beings are different from living beings. A Deathless(positive energy animated being) is immune to the effects of the positive energy plane -> A Undead should remain immune to "too much negative energy".

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    This makes me happier than you could ever imagine.

    Three games we used the rebuild module from PHB2 where the negative and positive planes connects (Cradle of life or something?).

    I died all three times by falling into the plane of positive energy and exploding.

    Make those undead implode!

    The fourth I tackled a vampire into the negative energy plane to make him suffer as I suffered only to find out he doesn't explode or implode or anything.

    I still killed him though, twas a mighty doom.
    Last edited by Reprimand; 2015-07-11 at 06:34 AM.

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3N3xtGuy View Post
    Mortals explode with to much positive via being healed to literal death. So should undead implode with to much negative energy exceeding there own health?
    People keep forgetting that this only applies when you are on the positive energy plane. You cannot heal someone to death anywhere else, including on the material plane.

    My personal theory is that the "background entropy" present on all other planes is what makes healing someone safe everywhere else.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    People keep forgetting that this only applies when you are on the positive energy plane. You cannot heal someone to death anywhere else, including on the material plane.

    My personal theory is that the "background entropy" present on all other planes is what makes healing someone safe everywhere else.
    The Heal spell would be a public safety concern otherwise.

    "But officer I just healed him too much! Honest!"

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Well guys/gals I meant true positive energy that will heal tell mortals explode. Not weak sauce non-godlike spells.

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3N3xtGuy View Post
    Well guys/gals I meant true positive energy that will heal tell mortals explode. Not weak sauce non-godlike spells.
    The most powerful single-target heal in the game is "weaksauce?"
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The most powerful single-target heal in the game is "weaksauce?"
    Short answer, yes!

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    People keep forgetting that this only applies when you are on the positive energy plane. You cannot heal someone to death anywhere else, including on the material plane.

    My personal theory is that the "background entropy" present on all other planes is what makes healing someone safe everywhere else.
    I always figured it was just the positive energy being forced into you from the sheer pressure of the plane. Like, you can explode a plastic bottle by attaching it to the end of a fire hose, but not by pouring water into it from a jug.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    As a homebrew effect, I might say that undead who spend too long in the NEP would implode...into a small obsidian sphere...That must never find its way to another plane or it just might hatch into [insert plot specific world killing undead horror]

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by mabriss lethe View Post
    As a homebrew effect, I might say that undead who spend too long in the NEP would implode...into a small obsidian sphere...That must never find its way to another plane or it just might hatch into [insert plot specific world killing undead horror]
    In Forgotten Realms, the abyss was grown from a "seed of evil" I guess you could use the negative plane + various mass sacrifice equals seed of evil. Turn the material plane into another abyss. Cliche though.
    Last edited by Th3N3xtGuy; 2015-07-11 at 07:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3N3xtGuy View Post
    Mortals explode with to much positive via being healed to literal death. So should undead implode with to much negative energy exceeding there own health?
    No. Because undead don't have bodily systems to overload. In fact, there is a type of undead with an unusually large amount of negative energy flowing through them. They're called Evolved Undead, and they're actually stronger and faster healing (and have an extra SLA) compared to normal undead.

    Honestly, I'd be a bit more interested in the opposite, making a positive equivalent to Voidstone (parts of Negative folded up so tightly that they act like weaker orbs of annihilation). What happens when the Positive is concentrated so tightly it becomes solid?
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    bekeleven's Avatar

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    No. Because undead don't have bodily systems to overload. In fact, there is a type of undead with an unusually large amount of negative energy flowing through them. They're called Evolved Undead, and they're actually stronger and faster healing (and have an extra SLA) compared to normal undead.

    Honestly, I'd be a bit more interested in the opposite, making a positive equivalent to Voidstone (parts of Negative folded up so tightly that they act like weaker orbs of annihilation). What happens when the Positive is concentrated so tightly it becomes solid?
    Undead are like constructs, except that instead of being held together by plain jane generic magic, they're held together by negative energy specifically. I'll start with what we know and move from there.

    • An undead is a perpetual motion machine. You don't have to feed a zombie, or let it rest, or even water it and leave it out in the sun.
    • You know how a chicken is how an egg makes more eggs? An undead is how negative energy makes more negative energy. A suitably calibrated undead, like most zombies or skeletons, will run at constant negative output. They can't underflow or tick down - they're immune to sleep, fatigue, etc, because their internal dynamos keep pumping out energy at the same rate. By the same token, they can't overclock or flame out: These undead can't charge or run, even when you cast Inflict or leave them somewhere Unhallowed.
    • The reason Undead can't spike their power is that their body can't store excess negative energy. A vampire can sleep. A vampire can charge and run. It's not calibrated like a zombie, and this is one clue how that difference works.
    • This means that an undead on the negative energy plane wouldn't be able to retain more energy than it requires to run it. Put simply, excess negative energy can seep into the area near where such an undead will spend its time.
    • This is also why undead creation is an evil act. It's basically impossible to perfectly calibrate a self-sustaining dynamo to generate the exact energy output you need, based on undead type, race, advancement and other factors. All necromancers will err on the side of leakage; if you don't give it enough seed energy it will consume more than it generates, run out of power, and "die." Therefore, every undead that still exists necessarily seeps evil into the world merely by existing.

    How'd I do? I like justifying arbitrary cosmological decisions. The vampire exceptions need some work.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Undead implode with to much Negative Nrg

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    Honestly, I'd be a bit more interested in the opposite, making a positive equivalent to Voidstone (parts of Negative folded up so tightly that they act like weaker orbs of annihilation). What happens when the Positive is concentrated so tightly it becomes solid?
    I'm not sure there could be something analogous to positive voidstone. I mean, obviously there could, because it's a made-up thing and the DM can just invent whatever they darn well please, but voidstone comes about when the 'collapsing intensity' of the negative energy plane becomes so strong that it folds in on itself and solidifies; it's the 'end result' of the sucking nature of negative energy. Positive energy doesn't suck and steal, though; the end result of high concentrations of positive energy is explosions, so the opposite to voidstone is technically the constant explosive blasts of energy that happen in the major sections of the positive energy plane.

    Or something. I dunno.

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