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    Default Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Martial Weapons

    Welcome to Junkyard Stadium! It is in this hallowed pile of miscellaneous parts that we will hold a competition of Practical Optimization with three components. The catch? Competitors may not use the third item in their builds!

    Goal: Create a build that showcases the selected ingredients while steering clear of the Forbidden Ingredient.


    This competition has two Necessary Components and one Forbidden Component. After a hiatus, we're back to give you a new chance to leave your mark on the optimization community. And you bet your ass that's a pun. Puns are, after all, a touchstone of these competitions. Fire up your rudisplorkers, this round's components are...

    • Necessary: From A Few Eberron Books... Dragonmark Heir Analogues! (That is, one or more PrCs whose levels count as levels in Dragonmark Heir for Dragonmark CL, or Child of Khyber)
    • Necessary: From Planar Handbook or Sandstorm... Planar Touchstone or Touchstone!
    • Forbidden: From Lot's of Places... Martial Weapons!


    Contestants:

    So you wanna give this thing a shot? Awesome! The rules are as follows:
    • Creation: 32 point-buy is the presumed creation method. If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in Elegance and/or Power. You may assume that you will have enough exp to reach ECL 20, and that the occasional bit of crafting, use of spells with exp components, or the like won't prevent you from doing so. However, LA buyoff is an alternate rule which is not in play.
    • Workshop: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. If you use web material, link it. Dragon Magazine Compendium is allowed, as are Oriental Adventures and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and fractional saves are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.
    • Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until after the reveal in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
    • Disputes: Any scoring disputes should be sent to the Chair via PM. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes will be posted in-thread for the judge to review. When disputing, please indicate the judge the dispute is intended for and provide a quote of the disputed comment or comments. Note: the Chair may edit or paraphrase any disputes in presenting them to the judges.
    • Leadership is banned: We're creating one things, not all of the things. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.
    • Presentation: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability throughout its life. Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries. Also for this reason, PLEASE do not include any material that may or may not offend any potential viewers/judges/competitors OR break forum rules. Any builds which violate forum rules WILL be withheld from posting.


    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities

    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code immediately below (spoiler)
    Spoiler
    Show
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

    Judges:

    • Scoring: Each judge is required to provide the criteria by which they are judging the builds. By "criteria," we mean a simple explanation of what the judge is looking for in each of the below categories and what kind of scoring we can expect. If a judge deems a build to be illegal, they may provide a 0 in Elegance but may not refuse to judge any build presented by the Chairman.
    • The Categories: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Components.
      • Originality: Basically put, does the build stand out from the crowd? Some judges score entries for the quality of their concept & backstory as well, though not all do. Providing at least some backstory is heavily encouraged, as it helps the judges figure out who the entry is.
      • Power: Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
      • Elegance: This category was formerly titled "Build Stability." Here, we're essentially measuring how skillfully you put your build together and how you balanced flavor with power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Some judges have penalized dipping classes in this category. Rule adherence and legality of sources is scored under this category. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. Note: for this round, the use of Level Adjustment should not receive a deduction. LA Buyoff, however, may receive deductions at each individual judge's discretion.
      • Use of Components: Was the Forbidden Component avoided? Were the Necessary Components showcased, or simply used because they were necessary?
    • Disputes: Any scoring disputes will be posted by the Chairman in-thread after reviewing them privately. Valid disputes include RAW misreadings, arithmetic errors, things missed that are present in the entry, and inconsistently applied criteria. Invalid disputes include disagreements on matters of opinion, a judge not catching something not explicitly presented in the entry, and the like. Invalid disputes will be responded to via PM by the Chair, but valid disputes should be responded to by each individual judge. Judges are obligated to respond to disputes to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake. A judge's scores will only be recognized if they have recognized all disputes. In the absence of any other judges, the entries will be judged by the chairman.


    Completion Time:
    • Contestants will have until [11:59 PM UTC on August 9th, 2015] to create their builds and PM them to the chairman, WhamBamSam.
    • Builds will then be posted simultaneously to avoid copying.
    • Judges will have until [11:59 PM UTC on August 25th, 2015] to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.
    • As the precedent has been set from Episode 2, should all prospective judges have posted their rulings in a neat, timely fashion and all disputes have been settled satisfactorily (to either judges, contestants, or the Chairperson), the judging period may end prematurely to give way to a new episode. No reason to keep working on a finished building and avoid moving onto the next one.


    So who wants to sign up as a contestant and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing! We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build that doesn't gain a medal. Contestants are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. Everyone else can vote in-thread. Ready? Steady? Get to the junkyard and start building!

    Previous Competitions:
    Episode 1: Shadowdancer + Sneak Attack - Rogue
    Episode 2: Healing Spells + Ruby Knight Vindicator - Cleric
    Episode 3: Dragon Type + Mystic Theurge - Kobold
    Episode 4: Book of Exalted Deeds + Undead Type - Completes Books
    Episode 5: Dread Witch + Reaping Mauler - Fighter
    Episode 6: Wonderworker + the Profession Skill - Factotum
    Episode 7: Metamagic Feats + Level Adjustment - Metamagic-Reducers!
    Episode 8: Pounce + Small Size - Barbarian
    Episode 9: Earth Dreamer + Ordained Champion - Cleric
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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    FAQ:
    What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while WhamBamSam is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right? No. No listed LA for creatures is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it. Templates are arguably a different matter, but expect judges to look unfavorably on your entry.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    *scratches head* ... interesting combo, oughta make something work from those ...

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    important but easily forgettable note, that i think cooks should be aware of.

    Sidebar in Players Guide to Eberron
    Quote Originally Posted by Subraces and Dragonmarks
    The dwarf, elf, gnome and halfing subraces detailed in the Monster Manual, as well as new subraces introduced in Races of Stone and Races of Destiny, are all considered members of the dragonmarked races. However, the bloodlines of the dragonmarked houses only manifest in the most common subraces. For example, only high elves who are members of the House Thuranni or House Phiarlan bloodlines display the Mark of Shadow, and only hill dwarves from House Kundarak display the Mark of Warding.
    A member of a variant subrace -- any character whose type is humanoid and whose subtype is human, dwarf, elf, gnome, or halfling -- does qualify for the Aberrant Dragonmark feat, however since aberrant dragonmarks occasionally manifest among these subraces
    tl;dr. Only races from Players handbook need apply.
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-07-27 at 05:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    i'll try to partecipate too, if real life doesn't get too much in the way.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    tl;dr. Only races from Players handbook need apply.
    Technically, the Half-Human Elf from the DMG (Pg 171) is still kosher, as the variant states "Half-human elves are half-elves raised by elves rather than by Human society". (The fact that it doesn't actually appear in the Monster Manual means that, by RAW, it still qualifies for a Dragonmark.)

    Basically, Half-Human Elves lose their Diplomacy and Gather Information Bonus and in exchange get the Elven weapon proficiency feats*. Which is, in my opinion, a really good deal. Why don't people use this more often?


    *They also get Favoured Class Wizard instead of Any. But no one uses Favoured Class rules.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2015-07-27 at 10:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    important but easily forgettable note, that i think cooks should be aware of.

    Sidebar in Players Guide to Eberron


    tl;dr. Only races from Players handbook need apply.
    I was not aware of that. That's irksome to say the least, and sort of baffling as to why they would ever introduce such a rule. That rule also doesn't seem to cover subraces from other sources, such as the Dragon Magic subraces, which have lines like this...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Magic
    Otherwise, silverbrow humans are identical to the humans described in the Player's Handbook, except as noted below.
    That would seem to indicate that they are treated as their PHB-equivalent for the purpose of determining whether a dragonmark can manifest. In a sense they aren't the "most common subraces," but in another sense they are, what with being identical to them apart from the ways they explicitly say they're not. Then there are Azurin, who come from a sourcebook not mentioned in that sidebar, and who could certainly be born from the pure bloodline of a human dragonmarked house, but who lack the verbiage of the dragonblooded subraces, and so exist in a weird grey area, where I'm not sure I can guess at RAW or RAI. The vast majority of elven subraces also come from books not mentioned, though at least the sidebar says what it means on that front, with only High Elves (and, presumably, Forestlord Elves who have the Dragon Magic "identical" verbiage) being allowed into Mark of Shadow club.

    It's also interesting because Heir of Siberys (which I can talk about without speculating, as it's incompatible with the required component) only requires that you be a member of a Dragonmarked race, which other subraces explicitly are, per that sidebar. So they can get a Siberys Mark that way, apparently.



    On a different note, I'd like to try hammering out some sort voting system to help decide on components for future rounds, per the suggestion in the last thread. Since we need judges more than anything, I'm currently thinking that they will get two votes, and that each medal will be worth one vote, or perhaps scaling up with something like 1 vote for Bronze, 2 for Silver, 3 for Gold, 3 or 4 for judging. I, as chairman, will cast the deciding vote in case of a tie.

    Everyone is allowed to make nominations though. So if you have suggestions for combinations or partial combinations, fire away.

    I'll start. Here are some things I'd like to use for components, but haven't been able to find good combinations for yet.

    The Area Attack feat (possibly with spells/powers above a certain level as the forbidden component)

    Vile Damage

    Swim Speed

    And the lists of suggestions that PONIES and Troacctid have sent in (with suggestions that have been done already snipped).

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES
    • Psionics + Magic - Metamagic
    • Gnomes + Races of Stone - Shadowcraft Mage or Blade Bravo
    • Binder + Casting - Anima Mage
    • Soulborn + Paladin - Divine Feats
    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid
    +Any Weapon Style feat
    +Exactly one level of Cleric
    -Divine or domain feats

    +Sneak Attack
    +Breath weapon
    -Dragonborn

    +Dvati
    +Exotic Weapon(s)
    -Tome of Battle

    +Stormwrack
    +Unearthed Arcana
    -Completes

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Ooh, I forgot I suggested Dvati. That could be an interesting round.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    important but easily forgettable note, that i think cooks should be aware of.

    Sidebar in Players Guide to Eberron


    tl;dr. Only races from Players handbook need apply.
    There is an online article regarding Reincarnation in Eberron. It may be worth perusing, regarding this particular note.
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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    ... that must mean that you'd have to give some kind of ruling ... does the sidebar cover all subraces, only those in books explicitly mentioned or should it be ignored?

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    ... that must mean that you'd have to give some kind of ruling ... does the sidebar cover all subraces, only those in books explicitly mentioned or should it be ignored?
    As a DM, my instinct would just be to ignore the sidebar and say a human's a human and an elf's and elf, but we're working in terms of practical community optimization, and not just playing at my table, so we have a certain obligation to attempt to follow the RAW.

    As chairman, my parsing is thus.

    The dragonblooded subraces are stated to be identical to their PHB counterparts except in the ways that Dragon Magic says they're not. As it doesn't mention dragonmarks, we can assume that they are identical to their PHB counterparts in this respect, and so can manifest true dragonmarks. The fluff in Dragon Magic also suggests that some of these subraces can be born to parents from the "normal" PHB race, with the draconic bloodline/pact/whatever being dormant or recessive or something until it manifests in the character in question, so this would seem to gel in fluff as well as crunch, whether or not it's precisely RAI. The Dragon Magic subraces are kosher.

    Other subraces from books not mentioned in the sidebar are more of a grey area. The intent of the passage seems to be to bar such subraces, and it makes its message pretty clear in the case of elves. However, some races, like the Half-Human Elves in the DMG or (to a slightly lesser extent) Azurin are implied to have identical bloodlines to their corresponding PHB race, and the rules concerning the human subtype in Races of Destiny strongly imply that the only thing stopping a given sort of Humanoid (Human) from being born with a dragonmark are explicit rules to the contrary and (possibly) in-game lineage. I've got a strong urge to just wash my hands of the issue and let the judges sort it out, but I guess I'd at least say that it's probably safer to avoid such races.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-07-27 at 10:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Which books have Dragonmark Heirs? I don't know my Eberron materials that well.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Dragonmark Heir itself is in Eberron Campaign Setting, there are a whole bunch of them in Dragonmarked, and there's Child of Khyber in this online article (which was working this morning, I do hope they haven't taken the archives down) which is a sort of Dragonmark Heir but for Aberrant Marks. I'm not sure if there are any others.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    As for Azurin, they're listed as part of "other human races" in Players Guide to Eberron p79, which is explicitly noted for "occasionally having aberrant dragonmarks", and the only reason i can see that Dragon Magic haven't been noticed is the fact that PGtE is from January 06, while Dragon Magic is from September 06. Azurin and Silverbrow Humans have identical text about qualifying as Humans, so by all accounts they should be seen as the same.

    While from a fluff standpoint i can certainly see where you're comming from, I feel it an odd non-answer which only handhold in RAW is the fact that Dragon Magic wasn't made by the time the sidebar in PGtE was writen.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    As for Azurin, they're listed as part of "other human races" in Players Guide to Eberron p79, which is explicitly noted for "occasionally having aberrant dragonmarks", and the only reason i can see that Dragon Magic haven't been noticed is the fact that PGtE is from January 06, while Dragon Magic is from September 06. Azurin and Silverbrow Humans have identical text about qualifying as Humans, so by all accounts they should be seen as the same.

    While from a fluff standpoint i can certainly see where you're comming from, I feel it an odd non-answer which only handhold in RAW is the fact that Dragon Magic wasn't made by the time the sidebar in PGtE was writen.
    No, Silverbrow Humans do have distinct rules from Azurin on this point. Azurin don't have any special rules beyond the regular old Humaniod (Human) status, which isn't enough, at least in the case of the races in Races of Destiny. Silverbrow Humans, by contrast, have a line (quoted above) saying they're identical to PHB humans except in the ways it says they're not. The other dragonblood races have the same. That is the handhold that the dragonblood subraces have in the RAW, and it seems a pretty strong one to me, what with "identical" being a pretty strong word, and "except as noted below" being pretty broadly applicable.

    I don't think they necessarily *should* have a stronger case than any other subraces, but the RAW seems to suggest that they do from where I'm sitting.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-07-28 at 01:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    still not seeing the important difference beyond the fact that they aren't explictily mentioned, for previously mentioned temporal reasons.

    Azurin have a much more fluffy reason to be born between two completely normal (boring) Humans as Silverbrow humans which is explicitly said to be a 'subtribe' having draconic ancestors way back, and any difference in ruling between the two of them seems very artificial.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Magic
    Otherwise, silverbrow humans are identical to the humans described in the Player's Handbook, except as noted below.
    The argument, in essence, is that determining whether a silverbrow human can manifest a true dragonmark is a respect in which the race is identical to a standard human, because it isn't noted otherwise below that bit of text. I'm not sure what's so hard about this. Any other race with similar language would also qualify for a true dragonmark unless some Eberron book explicitly barred them from doing so.

    I am not suggesting that this is a good rule, or makes sense fluff-wise, but it is my interpretation of the rules as they are written.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    ... and what i'm saying is that it for me appears that the sidebar is inclusive for all races outside PHB that have subtype (Human)/(Elf)/etc ... and that the races mentioned aren't an explicit list of 'These, and only these, don't know how to do it' ... supported by the fact that Azurin while not mentioned in the sidebar is mentioned otherplace in the book as (implicitly) only able to get aberrant dragonmarks.

    Otherwise also such things as alternate races from UA would be allowed.
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-07-28 at 03:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    I think this ongoing argument makes another failed Junkyard Wars round likely. Contestants aren't going to like having a potential FtQ ruling hanging over their heads, and judges won't want the hassle.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    It's worth pointing out that Half-Human Elves have the same wording as Silverbrow Humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMG, page 171
    Half-human elves have all the half-elf racial traits described on page 18 of the Player's Handbook, with the following exceptions.
    So, they ARE the PHB half-elves, except they trade in their Skill Bonuses for free Weapon Proficency feats.


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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Basically, Half-Human Elves lose their Diplomacy and Gather Information Bonus and in exchange get the Elven weapon proficiency feats*. Which is, in my opinion, a really good deal. Why don't people use this more often?
    Because it means you're still playing a half-elf?
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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    ... and what i'm saying is that it for me appears that the sidebar is inclusive for all races outside PHB that have subtype (Human)/(Elf)/etc ... and that the races mentioned aren't an explicit list of 'These, and only these, don't know how to do it' ... supported by the fact that Azurin while not mentioned in the sidebar is mentioned otherplace in the book as (implicitly) only able to get aberrant dragonmarks.

    Otherwise also such things as alternate races from UA would be allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    It's worth pointing out that Half-Human Elves have the same wording as Silverbrow Humans.



    So, they ARE the PHB half-elves, except they trade in their Skill Bonuses for free Weapon Proficency feats.


    To be honest, I say we just take Nick Fury's advice and get to cooking.
    There's a difference between the "has the same racial traits except X" used by the UA variant races, Half-Human Elves, and probably a few other subraces, and "is identical except X." Racial Traits are a relatively well-defined game term, whereas being identical is more open ended and absolute language.

    Again, I do not think this is a good rule. As far as I am concerned, a (Human) should be a Human and an (Elf) should be an Elf. Nor do I consider this to be the RAI (which would most likely be that the Half-Human Elf is considered a Half-Elf for this purpose since they're just Half-Elves with a different upbringing, but that every other non-PHB subrace including the dragonblood subraces is only capable of bearing aberrant dragonmarks). But you asked me for a ruling and I gave you one based on my reading of the rules as they were written, including the admittedly ill-advised use of the word "identical."

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    I think this ongoing argument makes another failed Junkyard Wars round likely. Contestants aren't going to like having a potential FtQ ruling hanging over their heads, and judges won't want the hassle.
    Quite possible. Someone took up a good chunk of the last thread arguing with me over a ruling as well. It is of course possible that, seeing as this keeps happening, I'm getting rulings wrong (the last one was admittedly was a bit of a sticky "ask your DM" type situation where I had to make a judgment ruling, though I'm pretty certain that I'm right on this one, and still feel I had the stronger position in the last one), but if people are going to just make up their own minds about what the rules are, should be, or were intended to be, or whatever, then I'm not sure why they bothered asking me for a ruling as chair at all.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Am I missing something? I don't get the point of this Junkyard war. The other Wars had required ingredients that begged for the forbidden ingredient; I don't see what Exotic Weapons have to do with most of the Dragonmarked Heir-like classes or most touchstones.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by marphod View Post
    Am I missing something? I don't get the point of this Junkyard war. The other Wars had required ingredients that begged for the forbidden ingredient; I don't see what Exotic Weapons have to do with most of the Dragonmarked Heir-like classes or most touchstones.
    I'll admit it was a sort of random spur of the moment decision. That said, using Catalogues of Enlightenment (War Domain) to pick up an EWP and Weapon Focus in one fell swoop is a relatively common usage of Planar Touchstone, so it's not entirely a dartboard round.

    Anyway, if you have ideas for component combinations that you feel would make more sense, please nominate some.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    I'll admit it was a sort of random spur of the moment decision. That said, using Catalogues of Enlightenment (War Domain) to pick up an EWP and Weapon Focus in one fell swoop is a relatively common usage of Planar Touchstone, so it's not entirely a dartboard round.
    Except War Domain doesn't grant Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
    Quote Originally Posted by War Domain
    Granted Power: Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with deity’s favored weapon (if necessary) and Weapon Focus with the deity’s favored weapon.
    Maybe you're confusing the Cleric's War Domain granted power with the Favored Soul's automatic proficiency with their deity's favored weapon.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    I was under the impression that certain deities specified exotic proficiency, and it's come up in posts about Planar Touchstones in the past.

    If necessary, I can change the banned component to Martial Weapons, no problem.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    I was under the impression that certain deities specified exotic proficiency, and it's come up in posts about Planar Touchstones in the past.
    Deities have favored weapons in all three melee categories (simple, martial, exotic) and all three ranged categories as well. The War Domain's granted power doesn't make allowances for exotic weapons. (It doesn't make allowances for simple weapons either, but Clerics are the main beneficiaries of domains and they're proficient with all simple weapons.)

    Excluding martial weapons would make the ingredient list more interesting.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Excluding martial weapons would make the ingredient list more interesting.
    I certainly agree with this, given that the No Exotics doesn't really have an impact on most of these builds. (Although that isn't much more of a restriction.) (Thematically, settling-based restrictions would seem to be appropriate (e.g. other than the Dragonmarked heir/equivalents, no setting-based PrCs).)

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Exotic Weapons

    Judges traditionally often look askance at cross setting material. If someone tries (say) something too specific to a non-Eberron setting (like a Faerun regional feat), I can expect it to get a slap on the wrist without my help.

    I'll switch it to martial weapons then. Why not? It's a good forbidden component (even if the only real relation to the required components is that they encourage non-casters) where I had a somewhat weak one.

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    Default Re: Junkyard Wars XII: Dragonmark Heirs + Touchstones - Martial Weapons

    Two Questions

    Touchstone (From Sandstorm) mentions that you can replace it with either a touchstone from that book or from Planar handbook ... would it by that be acceptable to use it as a replacement feat for Planar touchstone in any way?

    Secondly, how long does it take to retune yourself to a new touchstone (note that its mentioned that you get the basic ability no matter if you've been at the touchstone, only the higher-Order is dependent on such)

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