A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    I currently have three builds. If there are some almost done, I'll extend the deadline by a few hours more. Come on, people!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Think that there is 3 issues with the SI which all contribute to the low attendence rate.

    1. Its Eberron Specific ... Can't say i've done any real counting, but my hunch is that setting specific PrCs have a lower rate of attendence than non-setting specific

    2. Its Dwarven Specific, even more it ties you up in terms of available fluff due to the fact that its only a small subset of Dwarves that are able to enter it (Members of House Kundarak). This again follows the same hunch, in this case that race specific PrCs have a lower rate of attendence, as there is much less to differentiate the builds

    3. Its utterly unable to act within a 'normal' combat heavy game, and only barely within a intrigue based one. It brings absolutely nothing to the table in terms of combat, and works very poorly outside of solo encounters in which the rest of the party is demoted to cheering squad for someone disarming the traps they encounter. Not helped by the fact that traps are usually met so rarely that most (if not all) DM's would have to rework their encounter setup to help the Silver Key not to become a dead weight. And when he's not dead weight chances are very high that the rest of the party would be.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    I had a build Stub, but tbh, it had so little to do with Silver Keys, the class itself or have any real progression that it is particularly poor. Same thing as the Shining Blade class, in that in optimization terms, the class itself penalizes you by reducing the options. The same applies here. A good SI has something which can be built off; such as things like Stone Lord, Talon of Tiamat or Slime Lord.

    When a class is built around an NPC which is based around certain passive/fire and forget/spare spell slot spells and the Open Lock skill (a 20th level silver key optimizing open lock is as capable as a 1st level orc barbarian with an adamantine shuriken), in a setting where 10th level characters are epic heroes in their own right, in a challenge that's focused around a 20 level build for the most part, it's going to come unstuck. This is why I see it not just as a bad class, but a bad SI.

    Just some criticisms regarding the class. For that reason, I may judge, but I'm not competing.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    I currently have three builds. If there are some almost done, I'll extend the deadline by a few hours more. Come on, people!
    Truly you are merciful. Almost done.

    EDIT: and submitted. Ready for the reveal whenever you are, chair. thanks for the extension, this was a blast to cook.
    Last edited by Venger; 2015-08-23 at 12:31 PM.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    While Silver Key is difficult, and I personally wasn't inspired, it's no worse in terms of its restrictive nothingness than things like Nightsong Infiltrator and Thunder Guide, and we worked pretty well with that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    While Silver Key is difficult, and I personally wasn't inspired, it's no worse in terms of its restrictive nothingness than things like Nightsong Infiltrator and Thunder Guide, and we worked pretty well with that one.
    I agree completely.

    I think the reason people are discouraged has less to do with the mechanical class features (which admittedly are trash) and more to do with the fluff, which locks down a lot of the more straightforward paths for a character of this rough archetype.

    Personally, I was super excited for this class, real life just conspired against me. but my dish is in now. there is nothing left but to await the reveal.

    Also it's dwarves. And nobody likes dwarves.

    I'd put this class above thunder guide in usefulness but actually below nightsong infiltrator. and that's pretty embarrassing.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    While Silver Key is difficult, and I personally wasn't inspired, it's no worse in terms of its restrictive nothingness than things like Nightsong Infiltrator and Thunder Guide, and we worked pretty well with that one.
    While it have certain similarities with Thunder Guide, both of those are way more premissive than Silver Key, Thunder guide allows you to pick from any race, and Nightsong infiltrator only asks for Evasion, mild feat tax, and skillpoints, while at the very least it actively buffs your friends in a similar (although inferior) way as DFI Bard, with its teamwork sneak attack.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    While it have certain similarities with Thunder Guide, both of those are way more premissive than Silver Key, Thunder guide allows you to pick from any race, and Nightsong infiltrator only asks for Evasion, mild feat tax, and skillpoints, while at the very least it actively buffs your friends in a similar (although inferior) way as DFI Bard, with its teamwork sneak attack.
    Very true. It's nowhere near as easy to pick up trap sense. That was my chief stumbling block with this class as well.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    ... Aaand I completely forgot. Mea culpa. I've had two more entries in, but I really need to go to bed now. I'll post them in the morning, promise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    ... Aaand I completely forgot. Mea culpa. I've had two more entries in, but I really need to go to bed now. I'll post them in the morning, promise.
    sounds great. can't wait to see them. all... four of them.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Incoming reveals! Sorry about the additional delay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aludra Giantbane
    Aludra Giantbane

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    Aludra Giantbane of House Kundarak
    Aludra was a member of the house by blood, her family holding various positions within the house, a family of dwarven wardens living in the Razortooth Mountains. Aludra always wanted to be an adventurer but her parents forced her into the Warding Guild. Once on an expedition with her brother Alaxander they accidentaly broke into The Crypt of Sinu the Red. The entire expedition was slaughtered except for Aludra and she only survived mostly due to the training of the warding guild. it was when she returned that she was offered a position within the silver keys that she accepted her place within the guild.


    Atributes
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    Fireblood Dwarf (dragon magic pg.7)
    humanoid (dwarf, dragonblood)
    medium 20 ft.
    +2 Con -2 Cha

    32 point buy
    Str 12 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 10
    level 4 Wis +1
    level 8 Dex +1
    level 12 Wis +1
    level 16 Dex +1
    level 20 Str +1

    Ranger ACF'S
    Champion of the Wild (CC, p 50): Lose spellcasting for bonus feats
    Trap Expert (DS, p 12): Lose tracking. Gain trapfinding, and disable device as a class skill.



    Classes
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    Classes

    Level Class/Prc Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Ranger 1 1 2 2 0 Climb 4, Handle Animal 4, Heal 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Knowledge (A&E) 4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 4, Open Lock 4, Survival 4 Education 1st favored enemy (Giant), Trapfinding, wild empathy
    2nd Ranger 2 2 3 3 0 Climb 5, Handle Animal 5, Heal 5, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (A&E) 5, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5, Open Lock 5, Survival 5 Rapid Shot Combat style (Rapid Shot)
    3rd Ranger 3 3 3 3 1 Disable Device 1, Handle Animal 6, Heal 6, Hide 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (A&E) 6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 6, Open Lock 6, Survival 6 Endurance, Skill Focus (Handle Animal) Endurance
    4th Ranger 4 4 4 4 1 Disable Device 2, Handle Animal 7, Heal 7, Hide 7, Jump 7, Knowledge (A&E) 7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 7, Open Lock 7, Survival 7 Point Blank Shot Animal companion, Bonus feat (Point Blank Shot)
    5th Ranger 5 5 4 4 1 Disable Device 3, Handle Animal 8, Heal 8, Hide 8, Jump 8, Knowledge (A&E) 8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 8, Open Lock 8, Survival 8 - 2nd favored enemy (Giant)
    6th Beastmaster 1 6 6 6 1 Disable Device 4cc, Handle Animal 9, Hide 9, Knowledge (A&E) 9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 9, Open Lock 9, Survival 9 Precise Shot Animal companion, wild empathy
    7th Beastmaster 2 7 7 7 1 Disable Device 5cc, Handle Animal 10, Hide 10, Knowledge (A&E) 10, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 10, Open Lock 10, Survival 10 Alertness Alertness
    8th Deepwarden 1 8 9 7 3 Disable Device 8cc, Handle Animal 11, Hide 11, Knowledge (A&E) 11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 11, Open Lock 11cc, Survival 11 Track Track, trap sense +1
    9th Deepwarden 2 9 10 7 4 Disable Device 11cc, Handle Animal 12, Hide 12, Knowledge (A&E) 12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 12, Open Lock 12cc, Survival 12 Midnight Dodge Stone warden
    10th Deepwarden 3 10 10 8 4 Climb 6, Disable Device 13cc, Handle Animal 13, Hide 13, Knowledge (A&E) 13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 13, Open Lock 13cc, Survival 13 - Animal messenger
    11th Silver Key 1 10 10 10 6 Climb 8, Disable Device 14, Handle Animal 14cc, Hide 14, Knowledge (A&E) 14, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 14, Open Lock 14, Survival 14cc - Armored abjuration, heir’s mark, trap master +1, warder’s keys, wardsense
    12th Silver Key 2 11 10 11 7 Climb 10, Disable Device 15, Handle Animal 15cc, Hide 15, Knowledge (A&E) 15, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 15, Open Lock 15, Survival 15cc Least Dragonmark (Mark of Warding) Crafty hands
    13th Silver Key 3 12 11 11 7 Heal 10cc, Disable Device 16, Handle Animal 16cc, Hide 16, Knowledge (A&E) 16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 16, Open Lock 16, Survival 16cc - Invisibility
    14th Silver Key 4 13 11 12 8 Jump 10cc, Disable Device 17, Handle Animal 17cc, Hide 17, Knowledge (A&E) 17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 17, Open Lock 17, Survival 17cc - Trap master +2
    15th Silver Key 5 13 11 12 8 Disable Device 18, Handle Animal 18cc, Hide 18, Knowledge (A&E) 18, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 18, Open Lock 18, Survival 18cc, Tumble 2 Lesser Dragonmark (Mark of Warding) Sly soul
    16th Silver Key 6 14 12 13 9 Disable Device 19, Handle Animal 19cc, Hide 19, Knowledge (A&E) 19, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 19, Open Lock 19, Survival 19cc, Tumble 4 - Cunning body
    17th Silver Key 7 15 12 13 9 Disable Device 20, Handle Animal 20cc, Hide 20, Knowledge (A&E) 20, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 20, Open Lock 20, Survival 20cc, Tumble 6 - Trap master +3
    18th Silver Key 8 16 12 14 10 Disable Device 21, Handle Animal 21cc, Hide 21, Knowledge (A&E) 21, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 21, Open Lock 21, Survival 21cc, Tumble 8 Greater Dragonmark (Mark of Warding) Slippery mind
    19th Silver Key 9 16 13 14 10 Disable Device 22, Handle Animal 22cc, Hide 22, Knowledge (A&E) 22, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 22, Open Lock 22, Survival 22cc, Tumble 10 - Veiled spirit
    20th Silver Key 10 17 13 15 11 Disable Device 23, Handle Animal 23cc, Hide 23, Knowledge (A&E) 23, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 23, Open Lock 23, Survival 23cc, Tumble 12 - Master of doors, trap master +4

    Write-up
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    Why this chef decided to use what was used and how it theoretically functions
    with the spellless/trapfinding ACF's this sets the ranger more inline with the SI as the SI is geared towards trapfinding, defense and dealing with locked things
    next we are useing the mark of warding to cover alot of the Si's class features that gain extra uses if you have it.

    Why beastmaster first partially to add to the dish for flavor as it is built the couple of levels here would allow for the build to take something along the lines of a direwolf which would be helpfull in many situations as the build is setup primarily as ranged combat, but if tinkering with a lock or the like it certainly can go melee.
    because each judge might use the inclusion of an animal companion or not, to sway how they feel the build goes , this chef did not include a stat block for an animal companion thus allowing the judges to use what ever animal companion they think works best in their opinion.
    any deductions here for lack of animal companion will see a dispute.

    Why deepwarden this chef felt the deepwarden adds flavor to the dish, as the deep warden directly aids the SI with track, trap sense, also aiding the previous class levels with animal messenger

    the SI yes it is not taken as soon as it is possible but this was to allow more flavor into the build, helping make the abilities of the SI shine.

    it is this chefs opinion that the sweetspot would fall around levels 14-16.

    how each portion of the SI is used, in this cheefs opinion it should be fairly obvious.
    Armored abjuration, heir’s mark, trap master +1, warder’s keys, wardsense
    the greater mark of warding will slightly benefit from the heirs mark, trap master & ward sense both are aided from trapfinding and trapsense,
    warders keys & Crafty hands, are used with open locks ect.
    Invisibility: certainly helps to be able to use this 2/day
    Sly Soul: SR 25 cant hurt
    Cunning Body: auto recovery from a few interesting effects
    Slippery Mind: 3 potential saves vs mind effects very nice
    Veiled Spirit: bonus to hide, and resist divination effects makes this trapmaster even better
    Master of Doors: make use of any magic door or portal this character comes across as though it had the specific ability to do so cant go wrong.

    levels 1-5 general ranger warden
    levels 6-10 beastmaster , Deepwarden
    levels 11-20 see the SI yes it is not taken as soon as it is possible but this is to allow more flavor into the build, helping make the abilities of the SI shine.
    it is this chefs opinion that the sweetspot would fall around levels 14-16.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Get Jinxed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx
    Jinx: Dark Changeling rogue5/trapsmith 5/silverkey 10

    Spoiler: A chance meeting
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    Week two of this plumb gig. With six hobgoblins and some fantastic gear from our last big score, we camp about 10 miles from the gold mine. Our shaman set a magical alarm near the trail while Garkbar lashes the horses to some trees a few hundred feat from the camp in case there were bears. We eat, stow our rations in bags and hang them from trees to keep large predators from smelling food in our tents. We go to sleep after some tentative planning on how to rob the gold caravan. That was when we were jinxed. Hadriel was the first to notice that something was wrong, his spell component pouch was missing. My wand was gone. We convened in the center of camp near the fire and then the magical alarm went off. We heard footsteps running away from us on the main path. “Hurzog! Garkbar! Get the horses!” We scramble to get our weapons together and follow the intruder and kill them. Where the hell are our crossbows? We hear shrieks of hobgoblin pain coming from the part of camp near the horses. We chase down the trail sans horses. The shaman disappearing from sight as a snare whipped him into the air. A log crashes down on Gerald. I’m shot by three crossbow bolts. Kerry is set aflame. Hadriel walked into a trap that speared him, right at face level. “Face us!” I yell. The silence doesn’t respond.
    Hurzog returns with a single horse, exasperated and annoyed as well as the remains of his halberd, which had a cracked haft near the tip. “Someone killed half of the horses and released the rest. They set traps and I think Garkbar is dead. A rock smashed his head. I almost saw him, he attacked me with a short sword and ran this way. I took a good swing at him but my weapon just broke when it hit him. He ran this way” That is when I noticed my wand hanging out of Garkbar’s backpack. I am ashamed to say that a fight broke out between us outlaws. The only saving grace was that, one by one, as each of us hit each other with our weapons, our weapons broke. Swords fell out of their pommel (someone removed some screws) bowstrings snapped, spiked chains had important links pried apart so that half of the weapon flew apart, hitting nearby allies. Even Bradley, who slept in his armor, had his scale male just fall off after Hurzog punched him in the chest. After Hurzog was pummeled to near death for a theft that would have been a more useful tool in my hands during this assault, we strolled back to camp, getting hit by another set of traps that ultimately killed Hadriel. Poor bastard had a tanglefoot bag and flask of alchemist fire hit him simultaneously. A band of 8 reduced to a band of five. What monster was harrying us? No one slept. No one had breakfast because our rations were stolen. We had a 65 mile walk to the nearest town that was friendly or we could try to go to the mining town and convince them that we are different hobgoblin outcasts from who robbed them last time. We were going to die.
    This trip was jinxed from the get go.


    Spoiler: Jinx
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    LN Dark (ToM) Changeling Martial Wilderness Rogue 5/Trapsmith 5/Silver key 10 (although not in that order...and with way more ACFS)


    Spoiler: Stats & Build Notes
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    STR: 10
    DEX: 16
    CON: 10
    INT:18
    WIS 10
    CHA:8

    All Stat Increases Go to Intelligence

    Changeling Stats:
    +2 racial bonus on saving throws against sleep and charm effects
    +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks
    Changelings add Speak Language to their list of class skills for any class they adopt.
    Minor Shapechange (Su): When using this ability to create a disguise, a changeling receives a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.

    Dark Template:
    Speed: +10 feet to all modes of movement.
    Darkvision 60'
    Superior Low light Vision
    Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar effect).
    Resistance to cold 10
    Hide +8 and Move Silently +6

    This build uses a bunch of books. It is also entirely predicated on the idea that the racial emulation feat allows for the taking of both feats and prestige classes with racial pre-requisites. Further, it supposes that features of a prestige class are not lost if pre-requisites are lost, although that shouldn’t be too big of a deal. With all of those inelegant decisions in mind, this character is built for heists and ambushes and is built towards those goals. This character is not good at combat and runs away from it whenever possible. If this character cant avoid big combat through escape, they feign death. This character sets up dominoes and watches as they fall.


    Spoiler: Abbreviations (only 12 books + Core!
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    Core: PHB, MM1, DMG: no abbreviation included
    Dungeonscape: Du
    Unearthed Arcana: UA
    Races of Eberron: RoE
    Exemplars of Evil: EoE
    Players Handbook 2: PHB2
    Tome of Battle: TOB
    Tome of Magic: TOM
    City of Stormreach: CofSR
    Dragonmarked: dmarked
    Races of the Dragon: RotD
    Complete Arcane: CA
    Complete Champion: CC


    Spoiler: Backstory
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    Jinx was born a changeling. Jinx’s mother had a tryst with a dwarf from House Kundarak during a mission to collect information to rob them. The pregnancy went fine, but Jinx’s mother wound up giving birth to the boy on the plane of shadow, where she had jaunted with a magic device check for the safety of her child, as House Kundarak sent a “manhunt” to find all folks associated with the heist. The essence of the plain infiltrated the young changeling, changing them. Eventually, they left, and Jinx’s mother trained Jinx as a spy working for another dragonmarked house and the young changeling picked up the skills readily. Soon, Jinx was 14 years old and employed as a spy as well. The intrigue part of impersonating real people was not as satisfying to the young changeling as spending time in nature, flitting between the shadows of trees. And so, Jinx left that place of employment by feigning his death (he held too many secrets to ever be let go willingly) and taking security and troubleshooting jobs for the dwarves of House Kundarak. Strangely, whenever Jinx took dwarves shape, he would manifest the outlines of a dragonmark. When that dragon mark finally develops, Jinx will have a reckoning to contend with.


    Spoiler: Table
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Martial (UA p58) Wilderness (UA p56) Rogue: Changeling Substitution level (RoE) +0 +0 +2 +0 Bluff 4, Craft (trapmaking) 4, Disable Device 4, Disguise 2, Handle Animal 4, Hide 4, Knowledge (arch/engineering) 4, Move Silently 4, Open Locks 4, Ride 4, Search 4, Sleight of Hand 4, Survival 4, Spot 2, Tumble 4 Dodge (bonus), Racial Emulation (RoE p.110) Fighter Bonus feat, Social Intuition, 2 extra skill points, bonus knowledge skill (RoE p122)
    2nd Martial Wilderness Feign death (EoE p21) Rogue +1 +0 +3 +0 Bluff 5, Craft (trapmaking) 5, Disable Device 5, Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Open Locks 5, Search 5, Sleight of Hand 5, Use Magic Device 4 Mobility (bonus) Feign death, Bonus feat
    3rd Martial Wilderness Quick fingers Rogue(Du p12) +2 +1 +3 +1 Craft (trapmaking) 6, Disable Device 6, Handle Animal 5, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, ride 5, Search 6, Sleight of Hand 6, Survival 5, Spot 3, Use Magic Device 6 Mark of Warding Quick Fingers
    4th Martial Wilderness Rogue +3 +1 +4 +1 Craft (trapmaking) 7, Disable Device 7, Disguise 4, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Search 7, Sleight of Hand 7, Spot 5, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 7 Bonus: tumbling feint (PHB2) Uncanny Dodge, Bonus feat
    5th Swordsage (ToB) +3 +1 +6 +3 Craft (trapmaking) 8, disable device 8, Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Search 8, Sleight of Hand 8, Tumble 6 Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (ShadowHand)
    6th Trapsmith (Du p53) +3 +1 +8 +3 Craft (trapmaking) 9, Disable Device 9, Hide 9, Knowledge (arch/engineering) 5, move silently 9, Search 9, Sleight of Hand 9, spot 8 Master Pickpocket (CofSR p95) Booby Traps, Master Disarmer, Trap sense +1
    7th Silver Key (dmarked p120) +3 +1 +10 +5 Craft (trapmaking) 10, Disable device 10, Hide 10, move silently 10, search 10, sleight of hand 10, spellcraft 2, tumble 7, UMD 8 Armored abjuration, heir's mark, trap master +1, warder's keys, wardsense
    8th Silver Key +4 +1 +11 +6 Craft (trapmaking) 11, Disable Device 11, Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Sleight of hand 11, spellcraft 4, tumble 8, UMD 10 Crafty Hands
    9th Silver Key +5 +2 +11 +6 Bluff 7, Craft (trapmaking) 12, Disable Device 12, Hide 12, Move Silently 12, Sleight of Hand 12, Tumble 9, UMD 12 Practiced Spellcaster (CA p82) Invisibility
    10th Trapsmith +6 +2 +12 +6 Craft (trapmaking) 13, Disable Device 13, Hide 13, Move silently 13, Search 12, Sleight of Hand 13, Spot 11 Arrow proof, quick fingers
    11th Trapsmith +7 +3 +12 +7 Craft (trapmaking) 14, Disable Device 14, Hide 14, Move silently 14, Search 14, Sleight of Hand 14, Spot 14 Booby traps (advanced), unweave, trap sense +2
    12th Trapsmith +8 +3 +13 +7 Craft (alchemy) 3, Craft (trapmaking) 15, Disable Device 15, Hide 15, Move silently 15, Search 15, Sleight of Hand 15, Spot 15 Extraordinary Trapsmith (RotD p100) Dance through danger, spell proof
    13th Trapsmith +8 +3 +13 +7 Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (trapmaking) 16, Disable Device 16, Hide 16, Move silently 16, Profession (lumberjack) 1, Search 16, Sleight of Hand 16, Spot 16 Avoid disaster, trap sense +3
    14th Silver Key +9 +3 +14 +8 Craft (trapmaking) 17, Disable Device 17, Disguise 5, Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Sleight of Hand 17, Tumble 10, UMD 14 Trapmaster +2
    15th Silver Key +9 +3 +14 +8 Craft (trapmaking) 18, Disable Device 18, Disguise 6, Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Sleight of Hand 18, Tumble 11, UMD 16 Craft Wand Sly Soul
    16th Silver Key +10 +4 +15 +9 Craft (trapmaking) 19, Disable Device 19, Disguise 7, Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Sleight of Hand 19, Tumble 12, UMD 18 Cunning Body
    17th Silver Key +11 +4 +15 +9 Craft (trapmaking) 20, Disable Device 20, Disguise 8, Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Sleight of Hand 20, Tumble 12, UMD 18 Trapmaster +3
    18th Silver Key +12 +4 +16 +10 Craft (trapmaking) 21, Disable Device 21, Disguise 9, Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Sleight of Hand 21, Tumble 13, UMD 20 Trickery Devotion (CC) Slippery Mind
    19th Silver Key +12 +5 +17 +11 Craft (trapmaking) 22, Disable Device 22, Disguise 10, Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Sleight of Hand 22, Tumble 14, UMD 22 Veiled Spirit
    20th Silver Key +13 +5 +17 +11 Bluff 9, Craft (trapmaking) 23, Disable Device 23, Hide 23, Move Silently 23, Sleight of Hand 23, Tumble 15, UMD 23 Master of Doors, Trapmaster +4


    Maneuvers
    Child of shadow stance
    1 Shadow jaunt
    2 Cloak of Deception
    3 Counter Charge
    4 Sudden leap
    5 fire repost
    6 mighty throw

    Trapsmith Spells
    1st: Haste, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, gaseous form, knock
    2nd: Stoneshape, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Arcane Eye
    3rd: Fabricate, wall of stone




    Spoiler: Level 5
    Show

    At Level 5, Jinx is simply a very motley assembled rogue 4/swordsage 1 who can hide in plain site in the darkness. This rogue has no sneak attack, which has been traded away for fighter feats via Unearthed Arcana’s Martial Rogue ACF. In addition, this rogue is less of a city dweller and more at home in the nature. This is represented by the wilderness rogue ACF from Unearthed arcana. Wilderness rogue removes Appraise, Diplomacy, Decipher Script, Forgery, and Gather Information from the rogue class skill list and replaces them with Handle Animal, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Ride, and Survival. Further, at level 1, the changeling rogue substitution level from Races of Eberron has been chosen. This grants an additional knowledge skill, (architecture and engineering), two extra skill points, and some other abilities, most notably the ability to take 10 on bluffs and sense motive checks. These features replace trapfinding.
    At Level 2, Jinx trades evasion for the feign death ACF in Exemplars of Evil.
    Spoiler: Feign Death Features
    Show

    As an immediate action, you can enter a catatonic state in which you appear to be dead. While feigning death, you cannot see or feel anything, but you retain the ability to smell, hear, and otherwise follow what is going on around you.

    While under the effect of this ability, you are immune to all mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, ability drain, negative levels, and death effects. Attempts to resuscitate you, such as raise dead or reincarnation, automatically fail, though resurrection and true resurrection immediately end your feign death ability.
    Spells and other effects that assess your current condition, such as status and deathwatch, indicate that you are dead. However, a character who succeeds on a Heal check (DC 15 + 1/2 your level + your Con modifier) can discern that you are actually alive.
    You can remain in the catatonic state indefinitely, though you still require food, water, and air. Emerging from feigned death is a standard action.

    At Level 3, Jinx trades trap sense for the quick fingers ACF from Dungeonscape. This allows for faster disable device checks than what is presented in the PHB.
    Spoiler: Quick Fingers Synopsis
    Show

    Simple Devices @ DC 10 = 1 move action
    Tricky Devices @ DC 15 = 1 standard action
    Difficult Devices @ DC 20 = 1 Full round action
    Wicked Devices @ DC 25+ = 1d4 rounds

    Jinx has also taken a dragonmark feat at level 3. See the Backstory above.
    At level 5, Jinx multiclasses into Swordsage, at initiator level 3, granting second level maneuvers. Jinx can hide and move silently like a boss. Jinx spends most of their time pickpocketing, tracking, and robbing criminals. Jinx never dives into battle and rarely engages groups that are much stronger than can be handled. Jinx is a decent scout. Jynx has concealment when he moves due to his child of night stance, and so long as he is near some sort of additional cover other than shadows, can hide in plain site. He usually just spies on a group for a bit, perhaps burgles them here and there and reports to his beat sticks at this point. He can create a firetrap 1 day via his dragonmark, and between dodge, mobility, and the withdraw combat action tries to stay away from combat. Tumbling feint is there as a last resort to be paired with a mighty throw maneuver or more running away.


    Spoiler: Level 10
    Show

    Jinx has grown considerably in effectiveness since level 5. Jinx has picked up 2 levels of trap smith and 3 levels of silver key. Jinx is now their namesake. Jinx’s modus operandi is to scout out enemy encampments and ruin their mobility and supplies. First he secretly approaches any mounts and releases half of them if he feels that they will make too much commotion when killed. Then, using crafty hands ability from silver key level 2, he sabotages enemy weapons and armor while hiding 60 feet away. The DC table for weapon sabotage is located in the City of Storm Reach book on page 140. So long as the weapons and armor aren’t being handled, (making weapons fall apart on a hit is DC 20 (DC15 if a simple weapon)) Making Armor fragile (falling apart on a miss) is a DC of 25. The Quick fingers ACF helps reduce the time of these checks. Any carts or wagons have their wheels and axles disabled to fall apart after 10 minutes of use.
    Then, Jinx starts setting traps along the major goat paths stomped out by the enemies. As many as there are supplies for. Jinx tries to set at least 1 trap per opponent.
    Then Jinx turns invisible, casts haste on himself, and runs through the camp, making sleight of hand checks at a -10 modifier to make pickpocketing a free action, stealing anything of tactical value (especially wands, rods, and rings) as well as spears, rope, and crossbows.
    Then Jinx uses the spears ropes and crossbows to make a few more traps.
    Then Jinx takes 10 to climb a tree, sets an alarm on the encampment, and watches the enemies run around getting hurt. If all enemies leave the camp, he charges into the camp and sets a few more traps if possible. As Per DMG2, you can make a DC 20 Survival check to collect the supplies for boobytraps. An option that Jinx can use to macgyver themselves into a winning position.
    Depending on your DM, you may be allowed to craft automatically resetting traps based on your spell list. Consider bartering: instead of making an automatic haste trap for your party, maybe you can research a few spells that will make for fun trap making (move earth comes immediately to mind). Otherwise, just make an automatically resetting trap of wall of stone to build a tower 300’ foot high so your party barbarian can put cracks in the base on one side so that it will fall under its own weight onto entire cities. Until you’re allowed to make a trap of something more fun.



    Spoiler: Level 12 APEX of Build
    Show

    Here it is! The absolute high point of the build. Invisibility up to 2 times a day, crafty hands to destroy all of your opponents non-held equipment through disable device checks made at 15+ 4+ability modifier. Sleight of hand checks made at +15 +2 (bluff synergy) + ability modifier. Hide in plain site. Shadow Jaunt, when necessary. Haste, Fabricate (mechanical traps perchance???) wall of stone for giant boulders to rig up in order to fall on opponents heads. You cast spells as a 9th level trapsmith. You can destroy peoples stuff from afar. When you do see combat, you rob the opponent blind and shadow jaunt away. Extraordinary trap smith is there to cut your boobytrapping time in half.



    Spoiler: Level 15
    Show
    The rest of the silver key’s abilities don’t really jive with this build until level 10 where you get master of doors. The spell resistance is a nice ability. Actually, at level 15, you should retrain your fighter bonus feat (tumbling feint or mobility) into martial study (iron heart maneuver (doesn’t matter which). Then pick up Martial study at level 15 for iron heart surge. Unless you are working with your DM for some additional traps or spells, you are falling down on the power curve now. You don’t have the damage output of a caster, your skill set is very precise, but magic now appears in troves to spoil your mechanations. Your fort save is terrible. At level 15, Jinx just can’t keep up with direct confrontation heroes. That is…until he gets to level 20.


    Spoiler: Level 20
    Show
    The ability to enter a magnificent mansion or ropetrick, rob the characters blind (they typically won’t take any precautions other than casting these spells) makes Jinx one of the scarier opponents that adventurers will never face. Other than direct theft, and some creative trapping set within the magnificent mansion, Jinx is over the hill until he can take epic feats, extra slot, extra spell, etc. At Level 18, you have trickery devotion which can be used to also set traps and pickpockets. But mostly, When Jinx meets combat at level 20, he gets hit once and plays dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina
    Ina the Neutral Evil Dark Changling Rogue 4 / Swordsage 1 / Spymaster 1 / Silver Key 10 / Trapsmith 3

    Spoiler: Background
    Show

    It was such a thrill, to be infiltrading so deeply, Ina thought while she sitting in the apartment she had lived in for the last decade, with a unsuspecting Dwarven male lesser markless heir of Kundarak, masquerading as the charismatic Dwarven maid Delbra Mroranon, charismatic and lively bastard child of a minor heir of Clan Mroranon, with a knack for trapmaking, which he had fallen in love with and married, and her slowly infiltrading House Kundarak, appearing as a competent Trapmaker, which after the marriage had been intruduced to their Warding Guild, making a name for herself as a highly competent trapsmith, and just as competent to test them.

    What noone knew was that while at day she worked at strengthing their traps, at night she snuck into wealthy homes and even, every now and again, into the Kundarak vaults or Sivis Libaries to steal small valuable objects or copying infomation off secret documents which she used a irvhir kobold shape to meet with a goblin fence was welling to pay through his nose for. Not that the money really mattered all that much, but the thrill, oh the thrill was delicious.

    If someone linked her dwarven personage to her clandestine hobby, which she always did in the shape of another race anyhows, she could always hire someone to quietly dispose her unsuspecting husband, stealing his position and playing the shocked, slightly naive, but innocent man, whom had been hoodwinked for so long without learning the fact. At least he worked in the Warding Guild as well, so she should be able to pull it off, and managing to Infiltrade even deeper as instead of being someone married into the house, then believed to be part of the house. Ina got the shivers of excitement of the idea, the thrill of trying to pull that off. Maybe I should consider pulling that off even without someone connecting the dots.


    Spoiler: Ability Score
    Show

    Ability Score
    Strength 8
    Dexterity 16
    Constitution 8
    Intelligence 18
    Wisdom 8
    Charisma 14

    All stat increases is going into Intelligence


    Spoiler: Table
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Martial Changling Rogue 1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Appraise 4, Bluff 4, Craft (Trapmaking) 4, Diplomacy 4, Disable Device 4, Disguise 4, Forgery 4, Gather Infomation 4, Hide 4, Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 2(cc), Move Silently 4, Open Lock 4, Search 4, Sense Motive 4 Expeditious DodgeB Racial Emulation Fighter Bonus Feat, Social Intuition
    2nd Martial Rogue 2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Appraise 5, Bluff 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 5, Diplomacy 5, Disable Device 5, Disguise 5, Forgery 5, Hide 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 5, Search 5, Sense Motive 5 Improved DiversionB Fighter Bonus Feat, Evasion
    3rd Martial Rogue 3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Appraise 6, Bluff 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 6, Diplomacy 6, Disable Device 6, Disguise 6, Hide 6, Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 2,5(cc), Move Silently 6, Open Lock 6, Search 6, Sense Motive 6 Skill Focus (Bluff) Trap Sense +1
    4th Martial Rogue 4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Appraise 7, Bluff 7, Craft (Trapmaking) 7, Diplomacy 7, Disable Device 7, Disguise 7, Hide 7, Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 3(cc), Move Silently 7, Open Lock 7, Search 7, Sense Motive 7 Improved InitiativeB Fighter Bonus Feat, Uncanny Dodge
    5th Swordsage 1 +3 +1 +6 +3 Bluff 8(cc), Craft (Trapmaking) 8, Disguise 8(cc), Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 4(cc), Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Sense Motive 8 Quick To Act +1, Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand)
    6th Spymaster 1 +3 +1 +8 +3 Appraise 9, Bluff 9, Disable Device 9, Disguise 9, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Open Lock 9, Search 9 Persona Immersion Cover Identity (Delbra Mroranon), Undetectable Alignment
    7th Silver Key 1 +3 +1 +10 +5 Bluff 10, Craft (Trapmaking) 10, Disable Device 10, Disguise 10, Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Open Lock 10, Search 10, Spellcraft 3 Armored Abjuration, Heir's Mark, Trap Master +1, Warder's Keys, Wardsense
    8th Silver Key 2 +4 +1 +11 +6 Bluff 11, Craft (Trapmaking) 11, Disable Device 11, Disguise 11, Hide 11, Move Silently 11, Open Lock 11, Search 11, Spellcraft 8 Crafty Hands
    9th Trapsmith 1 +4 +1 +13 +6 Appraise 12, Craft (Trapmaking) 12, Disable Device 12, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2(cc), Open Lock 12, Search 12 Darkstalker Booby Traps (Simple), Master Disarmer, Trap Sense +2
    10th Trapsmith 2 +5 +1 +14 +6 Appraise 13, Craft (trapmaking) 13, Disable Device 13, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4(cc), Listen 1, Open Lock 13, Search 13, Spot 1 Arrow Proof, Quick Fingers
    11th Trapsmith 3 +6 +2 +14 +7 Appraise 14, Craft (trapmaking) 14, Disable Device 14, Listen 4, Open Lock 14, Search 14, Spot 4 Booby Traps (Advanced), Unweave, Trap Sense +3
    12th Silver Key 3 +7 +3 +14 +7 Bluff 15, Craft (Trapmaking) 15, Disable Device 15, Disguise 15, Hide 12, Open Lock 15, Search 15 Trap Sensitivity Invisibility
    13th Silver Key 4 +8 +3 +15 +8 Bluff 16, Craft (Trapmaking) 16, Disable Device 16, Disguise 16, Hide 16, Move Silently 14, Open Lock 16, Search 16 Trap Master +2
    14th Silver Key 5 +8 +3 +15 +8 Bluff 17, Craft (Trapmaking) 17, Disable Device 17, Disguise 17, Hide 17, Move Silently 17, Open Lock 17, Search 17 Spellcraft 11 Sly Soul
    15th Silver Key 6 +9 +4 +16 +9 Bluff 18, Craft (Trapmaking) 18, Disable Device 18, Disguise 18, Hide 18, Move Silently 18, Open lock 18, Search 18, Spellcraft 16 Practiced Spellcaster (Trapsmith) Cunning Body
    16th Silver Key 7 +10 +4 +16 +9 Bluff 19, Craft (Trapmaking) 19, Disable Device 19, Disguise 19, Hide 19, Move Silently 19, Open Lock 19, Search 19, Sense Motive 10, Spellcraft 19 Trap Master +3
    17th Silver Key 8 +11 +4 +17 +10 Bluff 20, Craft (Trapmaking) 20, Disable Device 20, Disguise 20, Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Open Lock 20, Search 20, Sense Motive 14, Spellcraft 20 Slippery Mind
    18th Silver Key 9 +11 +5 +17 +10 Bluff 21, Craft (Trapmaking) 21, Disable Device 21, Disguise 21, Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Open Lock 21, Search 21, Sense Motive 19, Spellcraft 21 Trap Engineer Veiled Spirit
    19th Silver Key 10 +12 +5 +18 +11 Bluff 22, Craft (Trapmaking) 22, Disable Device 22, Disguise 22, Hide 22, Listen 5, Move Silently 22, Open Lock 22, Search 22, Sense Motive 22, Spellcraft 22, Spot 5 Master of Doors, Trap Master +4

    Skills at Level 19:
    Appraise 14, Bluff 22, Craft (Trapmaking) 22, Diplomacy 7, Disable Device 22, Disguise 22, Forgery 5, Gather Infomation 4, Hide 22, Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Listen 5, Move Silently 22, Open Lock 22, Search 22, Sense Motive 22, Spellcraft 22, Spot 5


    Spoiler: Maneuvers & Spells
    Show

    Maneuvers:

    Level Initiator Level Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known
    5th 3rd 6 4 1

    Maneuvers Known: Shadow Jaunt, Cloak of Deception, Mountain Hammer, Wind Stride, Counter Charge, Baffling Defense
    Stances Known: Child of Shadow

    Spells:

    Per Day:
    Level 1st 2nd
    9th 1 -
    10th 2 -
    11th 2 1

    Spells known:
    1st: Arcane Sight, Gaseous Form, Haste
    2nd: Dimension Door, Stone Shape


    Spoiler: Breakdown
    Show

    ECL 5 (lvl 4):
    At This point Ina have managed to get a lot of good feats out of the way, getting the most out of the Fighter Bonus feats as possible for a non-combatant, just as for the rest of the career, Ina's main response to combat is do use Improved Diversion together with her Hide in Plain Sight and her high Bluff/Hide to disengage. An Encounter that has to be fought instead of thought is an encounter Ina can't contribute to, getting past them non-lethally, by steath is the preferred choice.

    ECL 10 (lvl 9):
    Starting to become very strong against non-combat encounters, with a number of utility maneuvers from Swordsage, a strong cover identity as Delbra the Grey (supported by Persona Immersion, leaving low-level divination to be fooled), and the ability to work with the most difficult traps around, from a distance, when bypassing completely (via Shadow Jaunt or Gaseous Form) aren't possible. Lastly Ina's stealth ability have been strengthened as well via Darkstalker. Trap Master and Master Disarmer works nicely together at making Trap disarming a breeze, being respectively insight and untyped bonuses, together with Circumstance + Competence bonuses from Warder's Keys, the bonus from both having trapfinding and Wardsense have been traded (ahead of time) for Social Intuition (mainly for take 10 on Bluff checks and to a lesser degree Diplomacy) and another 8 skill points at first level. Armored Abjuration and Heir's Mark through aren't used for anything as my few spells are cast as if a Bard, hence Light armor already being allowed, and that i'm not able to get Dragonmarks

    ECL 15 (lvl 14):
    Grabbing another two levels of Trapsmith, gaining a small DR bonus against mechanical traps and the ability to disable traps much faster, either due to simply being faster on Disable device checks, or by having Dispel magic 3/day against magical traps, including some quite handy spells to bypass them (Dim.Door and Stone Shape). Meanwhile i get Invisibility once a day at CL = ChrLvl, which supplements the effectively 'at-will' Cloak of Deception, which only works on my own turn, even more skill bonus on magical traps, and Sly Soul giving my a reasonable spell resistence. On the feat side of things I get 'auto-search' on mechanical traps within 5ft.

    ECL 20 (lvl 19):
    Rest of the Silver Key levels to be collected here, earning me Cunning Body, which helps if certain traps manages to surprise me, Slippery Mind, which make me reroll failed saves against Mind-effecting and Veiled Spirit which boosts by allready strong Hide checks and Will saves against Divination attempts, lastly i get the ultimative vault infiltration skill in Master of Doors which makes all magically defended doors 'believe' that i have explicit rights to enter.


    Spoiler: Notes
    Show

    Inspirational Credit is due, to Chronos' Kole Naerrin for Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide, in similar (if not quite as spectacular) fashion to Thunder Guide, Silver Key have next to nothing on the shelves when it come to combat ability, so i decided to follow the aforementioned Characters tracks in making the best non-combatant as I could.

    Automatic Languages is Common, Bonus Languages from high beginning Intelligence is Dwarven, Elven, Gnome and Halfing.

    Q: How do you qualify for Silver Key?

    A: There is two tricky parts of entering Silver Key which my character initially doesn't appear to do. Firstly you must be Dwarf, and secondly you must be a member of House Kundarak.

    Through Racial Emulation I'm for all intends and purposes counting as a Dwarf whenever i'm in such a form, and you can marry into a house becomming a member in that way, even if you wasn't born as such. In theory you could also be adopted into the house but Kundarak is noted for only doing so very rarely.


    Spoiler: Sources
    Show

    Source Material Used
    Tome of Magic Dark Template
    Races of Eberron Changling Rogue Racial substitution levels, Racial Emulation, Persona Immersion
    Tome of Battle Swordsage
    Races of the Wild Expeditious Dodge
    Complete Adventurer Spymaster, Improved Diversion
    Dungeonscape Trapsmith, Trap Engineer, Trap Sensitivity
    Unearthed Arcana Martial Rogue alternate class
    Lords of Madness Darkstalker
    Complete Arcane Practiced Spellcaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    I don't see any ranks in Perform (Limerick) in that build...

    Quote Originally Posted by Barton d'Kundarak

    Barton d’Kundarak


    Spoiler: story
    Show

    The thing about all silver keys
    Is the urge to pick up what he sees
    But this is forbidden
    His skills all unbidden
    So you see them all beg on their knees.

    A petulant Key named d’Kundarak
    Picked everyone’s pocket with quite a knack
    For getting in where he shouldn’t
    His house, abide this? They couldn’t
    So this d’Kundarak they had to sack.

    Now he was stuck on the street
    He needed to make his ends meet
    In so many places
    There were hid-away spaces
    And there his way in he would cheat

    Once someone stepped out of thin air
    And went down the street without care
    d’Kundarak stepped in
    His face a broad grin
    Once inside he ascended the stair

    He found himself in a large mansion
    At such splendor his face was a’blanchin’
    The table was set with food so delightful
    He was sure his excitement would seem quite frightful
    So he sat down and began his stomach’s expansion.

    The servants around were unseen
    And asked him not where he’d been
    They filled up his cup
    And from it he did sup
    On this lifestyle he’d say he was keen.


    Spoiler: abilities and lvl breakdown
    Show

    NE dwarf rogue 3/incarnate 2/silver key 10/incarnate 7

    str 8
    dex 14
    con 14
    int 18
    wis 12
    cha 8

    after adjusters:

    str 8
    dex 14 (16th lvl ability boost here)
    con 16
    int 18 (other increases here)
    wis 12
    cha 6


    Spoiler: build
    Show

    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Rogue 1 +0 +0 +2 +0 bluff 4, diplomacy 4, dd 4, forgery 4, hide 4, k(architecture and engineering) 4, listen 4, ms 4, open lock 4, spot 4, tumble 4, umd 4 midnight dodge Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
    2nd Rogue 2 +1 +0 +3 +0 bluff 1 (5), tumble 5, umd 1 (5) evasion
    3rd Rogue 3 +2 +1 +3 +1 bluff 1 (6) jump 5, tumble 1 (6), umd 1 (6) least dragonmark (mark of warding) Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
    4th Incarnate 1 +2 +3 +3 +3 k(planes), 4, k(religion) 1 Aura, detect opposition
    5th Incarnate 2 +3 +4 +3 +4 k(planes)1 (5), k(religion) 4 (5) Chakra bind (crown)
    6th Silver Key 1 +3 +4 +5 +6 balance 5, umd 3 (9), tumble 2 (8) lesser dragonmark (mark of warding) Armored abjuration, heir's mark, trap master +1, warder's keys, wardsense
    7th Silver Key 2 +4 +4 +6 +7 dd 5 (10), listen 1 (5), spot 1 (5), tumble 2 (10), umd 1 (10) Crafty hands
    8th Silver Key 3 +5 +5 +6 +7 dd 1 (11), hide 3 (7), listen 1 (6), ms 2 (6), spot 2 (7), tumble 1 (11), umd 1 (11) Invisibility
    9th Silver Key 4 +6/+1 +5 +7 +8 dd 1 (12), hide 3 (10), listen 3 (9), ms 2 (8), tumble 1 (12), umd 1 (12) shape soulmeld (kruthik claws) Trap master +2
    10th Silver Key 5 +6/+1 +5 +7 +8 dd 1 (13), hide 3 (13), listen 3 (12), ms 2 (10), tumble 1 (13), umd 1 (13) Sly soul
    11th Silver Key 6 +7/+2 +6 +8 +9 dd 1 (14), hide 1 (14), listen 2 (14), ms 2 (12), sleight of hand 4, umd 1 (14) Cunning body
    12th Silver Key 7 +8/+3 +6 +8 +9 dd 1 (15), hide 1 (15), listen 1 (15), ms 2 (14), search 1, sleight of hand 5 (9) open lesser chakra (shoulder) Trap master +3
    13th Silver Key 8 +9/+4 +6 +9 +10 dd 1 (16), hide 1 (16), listen 1 (16), ms 2 (14), search 1 (2), sleight of hand 5 (14) Slippery mind
    14th Silver Key 9 +9/+4 +7 +10 +11 dd 1 (17), hide 1 (17), listen 1 (17), ms 2 (16), search 2 (4), sleight of hand 3 (17) Veiled spirit
    15th Silver Key 10 +10/+5 +7 +10 +11 dd 1 (18), hide 1 (18), listen 1 (18), ms 2 (18), search 5 (9), sleight of hand 1 (18) darkstalker Master of doors, trap master +4
    16th Incarnate 3 +10/+5 +7 +11 +11 k(arcana) 7 Expanded soulmeld capacity +1, incarnum radiance 1/day
    17th Incarnate 4 +11/+6/+1 +8 +11 +12 k(arcana) 3 (11), k(religion) 3 (8), k (planes) 1 (6) Chakra binds (feet, hands)
    18th Incarnate 5 +11/+6/+1 +8 +11 +12 k(arcana) 2 (13), k(religion) 3 (11), k (planes) 2 (8) Master pickpocket Rapid meldshaping 1/day
    19th Incarnate 6 +12/+7/+2 +9 +12 +13 k (arcana) 2 (15), k (religion) 3 (14), k (planes) 2 (10)
    20th Incarnate 7 +12/+7/+2 +9 +12 +13 k (arcana) 2 (17), k (religion) 2 (16), k (planes) 2 (12) Share incarnum radiance


    Spoiler: playtips
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    Spoiler: lvl 5
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    play as a relatively straightforward skulk with your melds giving you quite the leg up. they give helpful bonuses to a huge number of skills, including your bread and butter as a hopeful silver key through the theft gloves. 2+2essentia to dd, open lock, and sleight of hand is awfully nice. plus since you actually have trapfinding from rogue, you can save yourself a hand bind later on and use it on something else if you feel so inclined.

    the airstep sandals let you fly right out of the gate, so enjoy them as much as you can, they’re never going away.

    skulk around and poke people with sneak attack and make use of your melds to greatest effect. dissolving spittle is great at low levels (since you add SA dice onto it transforming it into energy damage) and necrocarnum circlet is invaluable in turning the tide in a battle, providing utility, tanking, and pretty much anything else your DM throws at you monster-wise.


    Spoiler: lvl 10
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    congratulations, you’re in the secret ingredient!
    silver key begins pulling its weight immediately with a variety of cool abilities.

    You no longer have to be up close and personal to the things you’re trying to mess with, so can linger safely around the corner while still imparting all your bonuses. great.

    invisibility is up and running, helping you out with stealth as well.

    speaking of stealth, you nab kruthik claws from the totemist list at this level as well. you can have them chill out on either your hands or (more likely) your shoulders to give a 4+2essentia bonus to hide and ms. very nice. plus this leaves your hands free to shape the theft gloves.

    you’ve got lesser dragonmark to help fuel your cunning body next level, so everything’s falling into place. you’ve kept your sneaking skills up to par alongside detection, so nothing should be able to get the drop on you.


    Spoiler: lvl 15
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    goodbye silver key, parting is such sweet sorrow.

    you’re done already, as soon as you were in. slippery mind’s up protecting you from nasty effects (supplement it by binding the enigma helm to your crown chakra, negating all (charm) effects) and your spell resistance is up to protect you as well.

    your shoulder chakra’s open now, allowing you to bind your melds there should you feel so inclined.

    your capstone activates, which is my all time favorite thing about this (or quite possibly any) class.

    gatecrash a magnificent mansion and eat all the cucumber sandwiches. waltz into held portals, bypass land wombs, slip through rope tricks, whatever you want. the sky’s the limit. keep an eye out for extradimensional spaces if you ever need a quick escape and cool your heels as long as you want. non-silver keys will find it, at best, problematic to follow you.


    Spoiler: lvl 20
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    you round out with more incarnate, giving you more melds and binds. it boosts your utility and your esentia cap is raised by virtue of your third level, so all your melds hit harder and you can invest more essentia into them.

    master pickpocket’s up now. you can take anything someone adjacent has on their person as a standard without provoking an aoo (as long as it’s not in their hand)
    +4 if you’re grappling. plus if you try to do it as a free, the penalty’s only -10 instead of -20.

    your mod alone is high, but with theft gloves active (and necrocarnum touch if you can spare a meld, its bonus type is profane, so stacks with theft gloves’ insight) you should be able to pull this off essentially whenever you feel like. take a bunch of free actions and strip your opponent of everything you need. your imagination’s the limit.



    Spoiler: sources
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    srd: rogue
    magic of incarnum: midnight dodge, incarnate, shape soulmeld, open chakra
    eberron campaign setting: least dragonmark, lesser dragonmark
    city of stormreach: master pickpocket
    lords of madness: darkstalker
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2015-08-24 at 03:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Only four entries! Well, at least judging should be easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    seems like Vizzini wasn't quite as strong as i'd have believed, with 2 Dark Changlings with largely similar classes

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    This what i had cooked up before i just ran out of gas.

    Spoiler: Stoneblessed Goblin Rogue Heir of Siberys
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    Goldpaw
    Goblin, CN, Rogue 4/ Stoneblessed 3/ Heir of Siberys 3/ Silver Key 10

    Abilities:
    Spoiler
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    Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Reason
    10 17 9 16 12 6 32-point buy
    10 18 9 16 12 6 4th
    10 18 11 16 12 6 Stoneblessed
    10 19 11 16 12 6 8th
    10 20 11 16 12 6 12th
    10 21 11 16 12 6 16th
    10 22 11 16 12 6 20th


    Build:
    Spoiler
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    Level Class BAB Fort Ref Will Skills Feats Features
    1 Rogue +0 + 2 + 2 + 2 Appraise 2
    Balance 4
    Craft(Stoneworking) 4
    Disable Device 4
    Hide 4
    Jump 4
    Move Silently 4
    Open Lock 4
    Sense Motive 4
    Sleight of Hand 2
    Speak Language 4
    Tumble 4
    Two-Weapon Fighting Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding
    2 Rogue +1 + 3 + 3 + 3 - - Evasion
    3 Stoneblessed +1 + 1 + 1 + 3 - Weapon Finesse Stonebond
    4 Rogue +2 + 1 + 1 + 4 - - Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1
    5 Stoneblessed +3 + 1 + 1 + 4 - - Racial battle technique
    6 Rogue +4 + 2 + 2 + 5 - Dodge Uncanny Dodge
    7 Stoneblessed +5 + 4 + 2 + 6 - - Stoneborn
    8 Silver Key +6/+1 + 5 + 2 + 7 - - Armored abjuration, heir's mark, trap master +1, warder's keys, wardsense
    9 Silver Key +6/+1 + 5 + 3 + 7 - Two-Weapon Defense Crafty hands
    10 Silver Key +6/+1 + 5 + 4 + 7 - - Invisibility
    11 Silver Key +7/+2 + 5 + 5 + 7 - - Trap master +2
    12 Silver Key +8/+3 + 6 + 5 + 8 - Heroic Spirit Sly soul
    13 Heir of Siberys +9/+4 + 6 + 5 + 8 - Favored in House Additional action points, bonus feat
    14 Heir of Siberys +10/+5 + 6 + 7 + 8 - Combat Reflexes Siberys mark
    15 Heir of Siberys +10/+5 + 6 + 7 + 8 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Defense Improved Siberys mark
    16 Silver Key +11/+6/+1 + 7 + 8 + 9 - - Cunning body
    17 Silver Key +12/+7/+2 + 7 + 8 + 9 - - Trap master +3
    18 Silver Key +12/+7/+2 + 7 + 8 + 9 - Greater Two-Weapon Defense Slippery mind
    19 Silver Key +13/+8/+3 + 8 + 8 + 10 - - Veiled spirit
    20 Silver Key +14/+9/+4 + 8 + 9 + 10 - - Master of doors, trap master +4




    Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter

    Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    You're going to judge then?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    I'll get started on judging then. Hopefully this won't take too long.

    For the curious, my build stub was Martial Rogue 3/Silver Key 10/Trapsmith 5/Exemplar 2.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    I'll get started on judging then. Hopefully this won't take too long.

    For the curious, my build stub was Martial Rogue 3/Silver Key 10/Trapsmith 5/Exemplar 2.
    Lucky you didn't cook then
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    And I was considering entering as well with core+dragonmarked material only:
    Spoiler
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    Rogue X/Assassin 1/Silver Key 10/Assassin 10-X, for assassinating people in private extra-dimensional spaces


    But I couldn't figure out how skill points work well enough to qualify for the prestige classes in a timely fashion.
    Last edited by Bucky; 2015-08-24 at 10:44 AM.
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    d20 Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Oh, well. Should have tried that Merchant Prince dragonmark-using information-trader idea. Or that other Feat Rogue / Martial Wizard / Jaunter wanderer idea.
    Thought them too obvious. Silly me.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Frankly, I'm almost surprised that Barton wasn't a Racial Emulation Changeling too, what with the Tiefling Incarnate sub-levels being so good, and him going right up to the one that would have given him Telepathy.

    I'll get started on judging Wednesday night or Thursday.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    And I was considering entering as well with core+dragonmarked material only:
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    Rogue X/Assassin 1/Silver Key 10/Assassin 10-X, for assassinating people in private extra-dimensional spaces


    But I couldn't figure out how skill points work well enough to qualify for the prestige classes in a timely fashion.
    Skills aren't too bad. Your class gives a certain number per level. For example rogue gives eight. You buy class skills for the cost of one point. Class Skills are the ones on your list.

    You can have up to your level plus three in a class skill and half of that in a cross class skill. These are ones not in your list. Each point costs two points. Half ranks are allowed but don't change your mod. They do count for allowing skills to be used if they are trained only such as spell craft

    If a skill was ever a class skill For any of your classes then you keep the higher cap even if you lose it later

    To determine skills at each level add what your class gives you Your intelligence modifier and one extra if you're human

    You get quadruple at level one.

    That's all there is to it. Better luck next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by d20familiar View Post
    Oh, well. Should have tried that Merchant Prince dragonmark-using information-trader idea. Or that other Feat Rogue / Martial Wizard / Jaunter wanderer idea.
    Thought them too obvious. Silly me.
    I love jaunter. I vizzinnied myself Out of it this round since I too thought it was toi obvious
    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Frankly, I'm almost surprised that Barton wasn't a Racial Emulation Changeling too, what with the Tiefling Incarnate sub-levels being so good, and him going right up to the one that would have given him Telepathy.

    I'll get started on judging Wednesday night or Thursday.
    Racial emulation only lets you grab humanoid subtypes. The substitution level is only for tiefling and not lesser do I don't think that would have worked
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Racial emulation only lets you grab humanoid subtypes. The substitution level is only for tiefling and not lesser do I don't think that would have worked
    Lesser Tieflings are Tieflings. In fact, the actual rule for Lesser Planetouched is that you replace one with the other (ie, the 'Lesser' Tiefling is the version of the Tiefling that your game uses under this variant rule, and the two do not exist in the same campaign world). Thankfully, I don't think anyone actually enforces the "one or the other, but not both" thing, but yeah, a Lesser Tiefling is a Tiefling, and if you count as one for all purposes, then you count as a Tiefling for the racial requirement of Tiefling Incarnate. Iron Chef is generally pretty permissive with regard to Lesser Planetouched, so I can't see why it wouldn't fly.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Racial emulation only lets you grab humanoid subtypes. The substitution level is only for tiefling and not lesser do I don't think that would have worked
    Well ... i see no reason why Lesser Tiefling wouldn't be able to take it, but pay mind that Lesser Planetouched is Forgotten Realms specific so thats a negative for cross setting mixing

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Lesser Tieflings are Tieflings. In fact, the actual rule for Lesser Planetouched is that you replace one with the other (ie, the 'Lesser' Tiefling is the version of the Tiefling that your game uses under this variant rule, and the two do not exist in the same campaign world). Thankfully, I don't think anyone actually enforces the "one or the other, but not both" thing, but yeah, a Lesser Tiefling is a Tiefling, and if you count as one for all purposes, then you count as a Tiefling for the racial requirement of Tiefling Incarnate. Iron Chef is generally pretty permissive with regard to Lesser Planetouched, so I can't see why it wouldn't fly.
    Huh. Well how about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Well ... i see no reason why Lesser Tiefling wouldn't be able to take it, but pay mind that Lesser Planetouched is Forgotten Realms specific so thats a negative for cross setting mixing
    There is that. Given how common racial substitution was this round it probably would have been a wash at best
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    There is that. Given how common racial substitution was this round it probably would have been a wash at best
    True. It also would have been hard for him to squeeze in the required two feats for Racial Emulation and Mindsight to really make use of the sub-levels, and it would have meant delaying at least a few Silver Key levels. It wouldn't necessarily have been a good idea, to change the build that way, it's just a thing I could've seen happen.

    EDIT: It would make for a funny little adventure to find out that all the Silver Keys are actually changelings independently spying on one another and on House Kundurak.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-08-24 at 11:41 AM.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    True. It also would have been hard for him to squeeze in the required two feats for Racial Emulation and Mindsight to really make use of the sub-levels, and it would have meant delaying at least a few Silver Key levels. It wouldn't necessarily have been a good idea, to change the build that way, it's just a thing I could've seen happen.

    EDIT: It would make for a funny little adventure to find out that all the Silver Keys are actually changelings independently spying on one another and on House Kundurak.
    Yeah that's true as well.

    I'd play that. Sounds hilarious
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXI

    Even better if Kundarak is completely aware of the fact and use it as a 'fake front' for spies to find, so they don't go looking even deeper in the house where they would find the 'vautkeepers'

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