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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Spell like abilities and Item Creation

    Can a character use his spell like abilities to when creating an item as if he had cast the spell normally?

    For example could an Aasimar with scribe scroll create a scroll of Daylight by expending his daily SLA use of daylight each day to provide the spell for crafting?

    Could he also set the caster level lower than normal for Daylight since it is normally a 3rd level spell with a caster level minimum of 5, while an Aasimar can cast it at a caster level of 1st.

    And would he then be able to use said scroll without a UMD check if his normal spell casting class did not have Daylight on its list of spells?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Spell like abilities and Item Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    Can a character use his spell like abilities to when creating an item as if he had cast the spell normally?

    For example could an Aasimar with scribe scroll create a scroll of Daylight by expending his daily SLA use of daylight each day to provide the spell for crafting?
    Probably not, though the SRD isn't specific:

    Quote Originally Posted by The SRD
    Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the itemís creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
    I';d read that as meaning generally it's got to be a spell known by the creator, which is not a SLA. A SLA would not count as another magic item or another spellcaster - SLAs are not spells, they are explicitly spell-like abilities.

    Could he also set the caster level lower than normal for Daylight since it is normally a 3rd level spell with a caster level minimum of 5, while an Aasimar can cast it at a caster level of 1st.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by The SRD
    While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.
    While the aasimar might be able to use the ability as if it were a first level spell, the item has to be created at the minimum level to cast the spell. Not the SLA effective level, the minimum level the spell can be when cast as a spell.

    And would he then be able to use said scroll without a UMD check if his normal spell casting class did not have Daylight on its list of spells?
    See above and probably not. Per Scribe Scroll, you can only create a scroll of a spell you know, for a start. A SLA is not a known spell.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2012

    Default Re: Spell like abilities and Item Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    Can a character use his spell like abilities to when creating an item as if he had cast the spell normally?
    In general, yes. Under Spell-Like Abilities: "Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name." Given that, the rules just say that you have to provide the spell and whatever components and XP might be needed to cast it, which would be 'none' and 'zero' for an SLA. You could also provide the spell to someone else crafting the scroll per the MIC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    For example could an Aasimar with scribe scroll create a scroll of Daylight by expending his daily SLA use of daylight each day to provide the spell for crafting?
    Yes, for the same reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    Could he also set the caster level lower than normal for Daylight since it is normally a 3rd level spell with a caster level minimum of 5, while an Aasimar can cast it at a caster level of 1st.
    No, because the instructions for creating magic items point out that you can't lower your caster level so low that you can't still cast the spell. That that isn't an issue for the aasimar using his SLA, but since the scroll rules key the minimum to a class list, violates that rule, and it also would be an issue for whoever tried to use the spell... Even if it were to work, the scroll would be functionally useless because the spell would always fail when cast.

    If the Aasimar starts his scroll business at level five, he's good to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    And would he then be able to use said scroll without a UMD check if his normal spell casting class did not have Daylight on its list of spells?
    No, because one of the three conditions for casting from a scroll without using UMD is "The user must have the spell on his or her class list."
    Last edited by Bronk; 2015-08-06 at 09:13 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Sep 2012

    Default Re: Spell like abilities and Item Creation

    For the most part, I agree with Bronk. However, on these two points:
    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    Could he also set the caster level lower than normal for Daylight since it is normally a 3rd level spell with a caster level minimum of 5, while an Aasimar can cast it at a caster level of 1st.
    There is (sort of) precedence for this, through the Artificer. They have the ability to qualify as two levels higher for item creation purposes, but only for prereq's. Their actual level is still used for effect. The example given is:
    Quote Originally Posted by ECS
    Thus, a 3rd-level artificer can make a scroll of fireball, since the minimum caster level for fireball is 5th. He pays the normal cost for making such a scroll with a caster level of 5th: 5 ◊ 3 ◊ 12.5 = 187 gp and 5 sp, plus 15 XP. But the scrollís actual caster level is only 3rd, and it produces a weak fireball that deals only 3d6 points of damage.
    *claiming Fair Use, (plus the actual rules text is SRD compliant)*
    Note that this is a specific ability given to the Artificer, so by RAW and default, it would not work for the Aasimar. (A lenient DM may alow it, though...)

    Next:
    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    And would he then be able to use said scroll without a UMD check if his normal spell casting class did not have Daylight on its list of spells?
    Here, (and this would probably be closer to a house rule,) I would allow it for scrolls made with his own SLA only. This would not apply to any scrolls made with spells, or another Aasimar's SLA.
    Last edited by Rijan_Sai; 2015-08-06 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Spelling fail
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spell like abilities and Item Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rijan_Sai View Post
    For the most part, I agree with Bronk. However, on these two points:

    There is (sort of) precedence for this, through the Artificer. They have the ability to qualify as two levels higher for item creation purposes, but only for prereq's. Their actual level is still used for effect. The example given is:
    *claiming Fair Use, (plus the actual rules text is SRD compliant)*
    Note that this is a specific ability given to the Artificer, so by RAW and default, it would not work for the Aasimar. (A lenient DM may alow it, though...)

    Next:

    Here, (and this would probably be closer to a house rule,) I would allow it for scrolls made with his own SLA only. This would not apply to any scrolls made with spells, or another Aasimar's SLA.
    Interesting about the Artificer rule!

    I'd probably let the aasimar (or anyone with the same SLA) use the scroll too. Of course, I'm not sure why an aasimar in particular would need to... :)

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