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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    My DM requested I make this, after we both agreed that Corvo from Dishonored is a Warlock in terms of abilities. But when we sat down to figure out what kind of warlock he is, we both agreed right away that he is a bladelock, but we weren't satisfied with any of the existing patrons. So here it is, The Outsider. :)
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2016-06-30 at 10:41 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Princess's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    First impressions:

    1 - "Outsider" is an entire category of vastly different things in the Monster Manual. Without flavor text to help explain what you mean, this is very confusing.

    2 - Lethal Blow is way too strong. By level 14, most warlocks will have 20 charisma, which means they'd get to add 10d10 force damage (Which is resisted by pretty much nothing) ... per *short* rest. This puts every other Warlock damage ability to shame.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess View Post
    First impressions:

    1 - "Outsider" is an entire category of vastly different things in the Monster Manual. Without flavor text to help explain what you mean, this is very confusing.
    Added the flavor text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess View Post
    2 - Lethal Blow is way too strong. By level 14, most warlocks will have 20 charisma, which means they'd get to add 10d10 force damage (Which is resisted by pretty much nothing) ... per *short* rest. This puts every other Warlock damage ability to shame.
    It is now once per short rest. I was tired enough when I was making this that I didn't realize that in giving them Lethal Blow I was making a better Rogue than the Rogue :P

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Blink is way too powerful. Permanent disadvantage for anything that tries to attack you ever? Absolutely not a 1st level ability, especially with that 3rd level rider that none of the other warlock subclasses have. The additional Arcarnums also represent a substantial boost over the other archetypes.

    Supernatural movement is available vastly too early. The earliest any of the at will spell invocations for spells above 1st level are available is 9th level, for at will Speak with Dead. Misty Step is useful enough that I'd put it at 15th level with the Alter Self, Arcane Eye and limited Hold Monster invocations.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Blink is way too powerful. Permanent disadvantage for anything that tries to attack you ever? Absolutely not a 1st level ability
    I fixed that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    especially with that 3rd level rider that none of the other warlock subclasses have.
    My DM and I realize that none of the other warlocks have a similar rider ability, but I also had to convince him that teleporting at level one was too OP, even though he was trying to make Corvo. Getting him to not allow it to start until level 3 was more difficult than it should have been. We're going to playtest this ability as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Supernatural movement is available vastly too early. The earliest any of the at will spell invocations for spells above 1st level are available is 9th level, for at will Speak with Dead. Misty Step is useful enough that I'd put it at 15th level with the Alter Self, Arcane Eye and limited Hold Monster invocations.
    We balanced the usefulness of at will teleport against the Shadow Monk. This is 30 ft. vs 60 ft.; also as a bonus action; and unlike the Shadow Monk's Shadow Step ability, this IS affected by Antimagic Fields, so we felt that 5th level was appropriate, especially since you are giving up other invocations to get this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    The additional Arcarnums also represent a substantial boost over the other archetypes.
    Oops. I forgot to clarify that we were adding those to all of the Warlocks :P
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2015-08-08 at 03:16 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Updated the link in the OP.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Most recent changes: Lethal Blow now does Necrotic damage, and is usable only once per short or long rest.

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    Most recent changes: Lethal Blow now does Necrotic damage, and is usable only once per short or long rest.
    This might be me reading it wrong, but "once per short or long rest" means you can use it again after every short rest. Depending on how strong your adventurer's union is, that means you could use it as many as 15 times per day (ok, no DM is ever going to allow that, but still).

    Also: "when you take the attack action... the target takes and extra 10d10 necrotic damage." Does that mean you don't even need to hit?! You just try to attack and they take damage with no way of avoiding it?
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    Also: "when you take the attack action... the target takes and extra 10d10 necrotic damage." Does that mean you don't even need to hit?! You just try to attack and they take damage with no way of avoiding it?
    Oops. It's supposed to be on a hit :P

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Fixed it, and edited the link in the OP :P

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    An idea that I've been toying with for warlock subclasses is having abilities that have a recharge like a dragons breath weapon. If your DM is chill with it and you feel a 'nerf' is needed then change the at-will misty step into a recharge 5-6 or recharge 6. That way its nowhere near the Anti-mage level of blinking, but it'll be there when you need it and maybe once again in the same combat. It could give that blink-in happy murder time and blink-out that Corvo can do.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gr7mm Bobb View Post
    An idea that I've been toying with for warlock subclasses is having abilities that have a recharge like a dragons breath weapon. If your DM is chill with it and you feel a 'nerf' is needed then change the at-will misty step into a recharge 5-6 or recharge 6. That way its nowhere near the Anti-mage level of blinking, but it'll be there when you need it and maybe once again in the same combat. It could give that blink-in happy murder time and blink-out that Corvo can do.
    I playtested it yesterday in a 10th level five-player oneshot. I had one of each of the published warlocks (ChainFey, BladeFiend, TomeGOO), this homebrew, and a Shadow Monk (to compare the at will teleports.)

    VERDICT: It's a lot less powerful than the monk's Shadow Step. My assumptions were correct: (while they are both as a bonus action, at will) it's half the distance, and it does not grant advantage like Shadow Step does, so Rogue multiclassing isn't nearly as broken, which I feel warrants giving it to the warlock as a level 5 Invocation. This also forces them to choose between getting this at level 5, or waiting to grab it until level 6, so they can get Thirsting Blade at level 5. This Warlock will be relying heavily on EB, even more so than the other subclasses. There were a couple of tricky situations caused by the warlock's at will misty step, and there was one combat where all he was using spell slots for was Endurance Unnatural, because the monsters they were facing were more difficult. The 30 foot teleport is really good, but it's a lot less powerful than it could be. My ruling is that it's fine as is; it will not be nearly as prone to shenanigans as the Shadow Step from the Monk.
    Last edited by DracoKnight; 2015-08-10 at 08:05 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    I've updated the link in the OP, with modifications made after more extensive playtesting.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    As a big Dishonored fan, I appreciate this.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by GandalfTheWhite View Post
    As a big Dishonored fan, I appreciate this.
    I'm glad you like it

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Should Blinding Movement be a reaction?
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Outsider Patron (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Hyena View Post
    Should Blinding Movement be a reaction?
    Ah, yes, it is. I somehow missed that in my transcription of the old write-up into the Homebrewery.

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