[PF] The ABC's of VMC (Variant Multiclassing)

[Novawurmson]

Google Doc

Because obviously I need another optimization guide to curate, I give you a guide to Pathfinder Unchained's Variant Multiclassing!

Variant Muticlassing (VMC) is an option from Paizo’s Pathfinder Unchained that trades specific class features from a chosen class in exchange for half your normal level up feats. This effectively lets allows you to gain class features from a second class while giving up none of the progression of your main class.

VMC eats up a whopping half (five!) of your character’s feats - the ones normally gained at 3/7/11/15/19. That’s a huge portion of your character’s power and customization - it doesn’t mean that they’re never useful (otherwise this guide would be very short), just that they require careful thought before taking.

Most VMCs are a little undertuned, but then there are gems like the Magus, which grants magus arcana, like, say Prescient Attacks. Sure, it wouldn't be worth 6 levels of Magus just to pick it up, but with full sneak attack progression...alternatively, you could go Magus VMC Rogue and pick up 4d6 sneak attack at 20, just in case you had a few d6s that were getting lonely after rolling your fistful of Intensified Shocking Grasp dice.

I'm especially open to suggestions for the Top VMC combos section, if anyone has any ideas.

Hope this guide is useful to you!

[Ilorin Lorati]

It seems to be that generally VMC is best used to get into PrCs that would otherwise be pretty painful or stupid to go into.

Here's one: For a particularly damage-focused wizard build, you can get 10 Wizard / 10 Arcane Trickster (or 9 Wizard / 1 Sorcerer / 10 AT) with VMC rogue, as long as you take a level in another PRC somewhere before 10 and retrain it to AT after you get to character level 11 and 2d6 sneak. Because the prerequisites aren't otherwise tied to class level, you can retrain your previous PrC level into AT - the PrC level is taken because you can't retrain base classes into PrCs, even if the base class level wasn't what was used to get the prerequisites. Even if this retrain trick doesn't work with your DM, 10 Wizard / 1 Sorc / 9 AT is nothing to sneeze at.



Likewise, You can get 10 EK without losing out on any caster levels with a VMC Battle/Metal Oracle taking Skill at Arms. This will work especially well with a Blade Adept Arcanist, if you want to go that route.

Cavalier VMC Bard can get into Battle Herald without "wasting" caster levels, potentially making for a fairly competent front line support for people that don't want to be casters.

You already have Rogue VMC magus listed, but Spellstrike doesn't need to be wasted - you should be able to Spellstrike with wands, and may be able to convince your DM to let you use rogue SLAs to spellstrike with as well.

[grarrrg]

It's a bit more niche, but worth mentioning:
Paladin + Cavalier Order of the Stars
Cleric (or other Channeling class) + Cavalier Order of the Stars.

All levels count as 1.5 for progression of Lay on Hands and/or Channeling power.


You also need to be VERY selective with Witch Hexes due to the "as a 1st level Witch" rider.
This tanks the Saving Throws of any offensive Hexes, and minimizes the duration of any Hex with a duration.
There are still some gems, but it's by no means a free-for-all.

[Extra Anchovies]

I've already posted a bunch of comments on the doc, mostly about Wizard, Magus, and Witch; feel free to respond to them in-thread or on the doc. I'm the little black cat icon (and also currently the only source of comments on the doc).

Likewise, You can get 10 ET without losing out on any caster levels with a VMC Battle/Metal Oracle taking Skill at Arms. This will work especially well with a Blade Adept Arcanist, if you want to go that route.

What's ET? It'd be nice if you explained uncommon abbreviations (i.e. anything outside simple stuff like BAB, VMC, CRB, etc).

Cavalier VMC Bard can get into Battle Herald without "wasting" caster levels, potentially making for a fairly competent front line support for people that don't want to be casters.

Cavalier/Battle Herald [Bard] also gets an eventual +7 Inspire Courage, which I think is the highest possible without spells or items.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Sorry, Eldritch Knight. I still had Arcane Trickster in my head and typo'd. It's fixed now.

Edit:

This popped into my head after looking over the Dread Guide: Dread [Monk] would probably work very well for a Broken Dreams Style build.

[Arbane]

It occurs to me that a Cleric that VMCs Monk would FINALLY have a use for those otherwise useless spells like Ki Leech.

Oracle VMC Barbarian might be able to get into Rage Prophet without too much pain?

[Novawurmson]

Made a ton of updates based on everyone's feedback, including adding a small section on the prestige classes mentioned, re-rating most of the wizard arcane schools (especially the focused schools), and knocking down/toning down the rhetoric on a lot of ratings on the oracle and witch.

[Psyren]

@OP: A good section to add concerning VMC is retraining. Two important facts here:

1) You can retrain your VMC - whether to enter it, to go from one to another, or to alter the choices you made when taking it in the first place. It can be expensive to do so (both in terms of time and money, especially if you have to go it alone with no trainer) but you can do it. This allows you to wait to take a VMC that is terrible at low levels, e.g. Monk, and enjoy the feats. as you level instead; alternatively, you can go with a VMC that is better early on and then switch to another VMC that is better at mid-late levels, or choose a VMC option that is good at low levels and then retrain to one that is better at high levels.

2) PF retraining is retroactive - they look at your character as it currently stands rather than making you take abilities in strict sequence. This means that you can get an ability at X, and then retrain an earlier feat/class feature/etc into one that needed X as a prerequisite. For example, a VMC barbarian cannot take Extra Rage Power until they actually gain a rage power at 11 - but once you hit 11, you can retrain any or all of your level 1, 5 and 9 feats into Extra Rage Power even though those feats came before, and you will count as a Barbarian 5 when selecting those feats (half of 11.) This has a big impact on certain builds.

It occurs to me that a Cleric that VMCs Monk would FINALLY have a use for those otherwise useless spells like Ki Leech.

Ki Leech is a Qinggong power, that's it's main use as a spell. Monks can keep it on all day long and it pays for itself. It's not really for clerics.

Sacred Fist VMC Monk isn't a bad choice though - nearly doubling their ki pool and getting Evasion + Imp Evasion, plus they can use the Replenish Ki spell. The Unarmed Strike ability is wasted/redundant however.

[Ilorin Lorati]

For Alchemist:

I think it's worth noting that the Underground Chemist archetype for rogues works well with Alchemist VMC, with the archetype granting:

• 1/2 Level to Alchemy checks that stacks with the VMC Alchemy bonus - have you ever wanted to be good at Alchemy with literally no effort?
• Intelligence to Damage for Alchemical splash weapons
• Sneak attack with splash weapons, potentially including non-primary targets (though the wording is unclear)
• Compatibility with Scout, granting easy sneak attack after 8, and fairly easy sneak attack with Charging Hurler before then.

Drop Dead Studios also has a similar archetype, Chemist, that's even better if it's allowed, granting all of the above except the potential to sneak attack on non-primary targets plus:

• Its own pool of bombs with a special damage bonus that stacks with the increased number of dice from the Alchemist Bombs feature.

[grarrrg]

Oracle VMC Barbarian might be able to get into Rage Prophet without too much pain?

Correct, but Rage Prophets are still horrible, so I'm not sure why you would want to do this.

[insert Psyren reply here]

[NightbringerGGZ]

If you take Fighter (Lorewarden/Martial Master) with a Bard VMC you wind up being able to tailor your feats to each combat situation while having enough potential skill to contribute outside of battle. This combination pushes the Fighter into Tier 3 territory.

Spoiler: The Breakdown

Show

Lore Warden grants 2 skill points that must be spent on Knowledge skills and makes all Knowledge skills class skills. Getting Bardic Knowledge at level 3 allows you to split your ranks between 4 knowledge skills. With a 12 Int and your favored class bonus you can have an effective 8 skill ranks per level. At level 11 get Versatile Performance and the ability to retrain skill ranks, so now you've got 9 effective skill points per level.

Your level 7 Bard ability is specifically labeled Bardic Performance, which means you qualify for lingering performance, effectively tripling your performance rounds per day.

Lore Warden gives you Combat Expertise effectively for free, and you trade Armor Training for scaling bonuses to all CMB & CMD checks. Starting at level 5, Martial Master allows you to pick up a different Improved Maneuver feat in each combat. With the combined bonuses you'll be able to land maneuvers even at high levels.

[Molosse]

If you take Fighter (Lorewarden/Martial Master) with a Bard VMC you wind up being able to tailor your feats to each combat situation while having enough potential skill to contribute outside of battle. This combination pushes the Fighter into Tier 3 territory.

Spoiler: The Breakdown

Show

Lore Warden grants 2 skill points that must be spent on Knowledge skills and makes all Knowledge skills class skills. Getting Bardic Knowledge at level 3 allows you to split your ranks between 4 knowledge skills. With a 12 Int and your favored class bonus you can have an effective 8 skill ranks per level. At level 11 get Versatile Performance and the ability to retrain skill ranks, so now you've got 9 effective skill points per level.

Your level 7 Bard ability is specifically labeled Bardic Performance, which means you qualify for lingering performance, effectively tripling your performance rounds per day.

Lore Warden gives you Combat Expertise effectively for free, and you trade Armor Training for scaling bonuses to all CMB & CMD checks. Starting at level 5, Martial Master allows you to pick up a different Improved Maneuver feat in each combat. With the combined bonuses you'll be able to land maneuvers even at high levels.

The main issue being, of course, that the Lore Wardens Know Thy Enemy ability grants a Competence Bonus, as does Inspire Courage.

[NightbringerGGZ]

The main issue being, of course, that the Lore Wardens Know Thy Enemy ability grants a Competence Bonus, as does Inspire Courage.

Granted, but the abilities are used in somewhat different circumstances. At level 7 Inspire Courage will provide +1 to attack and damage to all allies in range. At levels 9 and 15 your Inspire Courage bonus goes up by another +1.

Know Thy Enemy gives you knowledge of abilities and a +2 bonus, but only you get the bonus and you have to pass a skill check. Since the bonus never scales, this winds up being more of a backup ability for yourself.

Also remember that you get Inspire Competence at level 7. If you pick up the Helpful (Halfling) trait and Lingering Performance (via retraining) then you can start a performance and then have two rounds to perform an Aid Another check to grant a +6 on any skill checks that will scale up to a +9.

[Molosse]

Granted, but the abilities are used in somewhat different circumstances. At level 7 Inspire Courage will provide +1 to attack and damage to all allies in range. At levels 9 and 15 your Inspire Courage bonus goes up by another +1.

Know Thy Enemy gives you knowledge of abilities and a +2 bonus, but only you get the bonus and you have to pass a skill check. Since the bonus never scales, this winds up being more of a backup ability for yourself.

Also remember that you get Inspire Competence at level 7. If you pick up the Helpful (Halfling) trait and Lingering Performance (via retraining) then you can start a performance and then have two rounds to perform an Aid Another check to grant a +6 on any skill checks that will scale up to a +9.

No doubt, In any case it's a damn good build.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Is VMC listed anywhere on d20pfsrd or the PRD? I see Unchained Classes on d20pfsrd, but no VMC. I really just want to see a simple breakdown by each level of the VMC goodies you get, repeated for each class. No need for wordy explanations, just the meat of what you're getting when.

Sorcerer bloodlines: IME with the Eldritch Heritage feat line, other than a familiar the initial EH feat was fairly underwhelming and it was the Imp. EH that gave the really potent options, so Sorcerer VMC locking that out for an extra 4 levels sounds pretty painful.
EDIT: For example, the 9th level power Water's Fury remains one of my absolute favorite bloodline powers to yoink, and would be an example of one you'd have a 4-level delay in obtaining. Kind of shocked the unlimited use aspect of it wasn't nerfed yet, honestly. Yes it's for a caster, but w/ the feat any martial could take it, and paizo's usually pretty swift about nerfing goodies for martials.

Spoiler

Show

Water’s Fury (Su): At 9th level, you gain the ability to summon a rushing jet of water from the elemental plane of water and direct it against your foes. As a standard action, you can create a jet of water in a 60-foot line that deals 1d6 points of damage per two sorcerer levels you possess, and blinds the target that was struck for 1d6 rounds. A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma bonus) reduces the damage by half and negates the blinding effect.

Magus sounds by far the most intriguing. Wizard with Magus VMC that goes into Eldritch Knight sounds fun, but I guess you'd be forced to multiclass 1 level for the proficiencies.

You are still allowed to multiclass normally if you choose VMC, and rack up VMC features based on *character* level, right?
And can you do actual multiclassing into your VMC, or is that locked out? If you can...would there be any situations where actually dipping into your VMC would be helpful? VMC does seem to skip quite a few major class features...

[Molosse]

Is VMC listed anywhere on d20pfsrd or the PRD? I see Unchained Classes on d20pfsrd, but no VMC. I really just want to see a simple breakdown by each level of the VMC goodies you get, repeated for each class. No need for wordy explanations, just the meat of what you're getting when.

Sorcerer bloodlines: IME with the Eldritch Heritage feat line, other than a familiar the initial EH feat was fairly underwhelming and it was the Imp. EH that gave the really potent options, so Sorcerer VMC locking that out for an extra 4 levels sounds pretty painful.

Magus sounds by far the most intriguing. Wizard with Magus VMC that goes into Eldritch Knight sounds fun, but I guess you'd be forced to multiclass 1 level for the proficiencies.

You are still allowed to multiclass normally if you choose VMC, and rack up VMC features based on *character* level, right?
And can you do actual multiclassing into your VMC, or is that locked out? If you can...would there be any situations where actually dipping into your VMC would be helpful? VMC does seem to skip quite a few major class features...

There we go mate: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement

The descriptions for each VMC are pretty damn concise, usually referencing the class features by name rather than detailing what each one does.

Yes you can still multiclass after grabbing a VMC at level 1, though you can't multiclass into your VMC class. Finally yes, all the VMC features are based on character level, not class level.
Oh, as an aside a VMC Oracle (Battle/Metal) gives you the proficiencies you need as a Wizard to jump into E.Knight.

Also, so as not to cause confusion later on, it's important to remember that you don't gain the VMC class as an actual class, instead you simply gain Class Features. For example a Level 4 Slayer (VMC Fighter) would still not clarify for Weapon Specialization, nor would a Cavalier (VMC Bard) gain the Bard related benefits of a Banner of Ancient Kings.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Cool, thanks.

And my idea was to combine the spellstrike of Magus VMC (plus all the other amazing goodies it grants) with an arcane spell list, since those tend to have most of the touch spells I'd want to be spellstriking with. Wizard is just the best natural fit since it's Int-based (some Magus abilities are int-based, not just their spells) and has such a big spell list.
Taking Oracle as a VMC to get martial proficiencies and then locking me out of Magus VMC I wanted to combo w/ Eldritch Knight is self-defeating.

Did paizo ever fix that crazy Inner Sea World option that let a wizard ignore a few levels of CL loss (it wasn't even a feat or archetype, just a background choice; and i think it gave you back ALL of the benefits of higher CL, not just for numerical parameters)? If you can erase the two lost CL from fighter dip 1 and eldritch knight 1, I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Molosse]

Cool, thanks.

And my idea was to combine the spellstrike of Magus VMC (plus all the other amazing goodies it grants) with an arcane spell list, since those tend to have most of the touch spells I'd want to be spellstriking with. Wizard is just the best natural fit since it's Int-based (some Magus abilities are int-based, not just their spells) and has such a big spell list.
Taking Oracle as a VMC to get martial proficiencies and then locking me out of Magus VMC I wanted to combo w/ Eldritch Knight is self-defeating.

Did paizo ever fix that crazy Inner Sea World option that let a wizard ignore a few levels of CL loss (it wasn't even a feat or archetype, just a background choice; and i think it gave you back ALL of the benefits of higher CL, not just for numerical parameters)? If you can erase the two lost CL from fighter dip 1 and eldritch knight 1, I guess it doesn't really matter.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic.../magical-knack ?

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, it's better than that. Looks like you join a "guild" and get benefits. The ones i was thinking of were Eclectic Training and Esoteric Training.

I don't think the full text is available online, other than maybe quoted in some paizo forum post.

[Alasdair89]

One quick thought on VMC wizard - for the arcane discovery you can pick True Name and it seems to me like you can get access to summoning a planetar (picked as a 15th level character you can summon up to an 18 HD outsider) That seems pretty awesome to me, summoning a 16th CL outsider that also functions as a melee tank.

[Serafina]

No, it's better than that. Looks like you join a "guild" and get benefits. The ones i was thinking of were Eclectic Training and Esoteric Training.

I don't think the full text is available online, other than maybe quoted in some paizo forum post.

Well, it's something that is obviously setting- and campaign-locked.
But yes, Membership-Benefits offer some pretty insane advantages.

Basically, that part of factions works like this:
You get to make a skill check (DC 15+your current ranks in the skill). The guideline is that you get to make about 4-6 of these per level. So assuming you pick something where you have a decent Attribute-bonus or other sources of a skill-bonus, you can easily succeed at three checks or so per level. Each check increases your "Fame" by one.
You can also increase Fame by fulfilling specific tasks.

The first benefit you mentioned unlocks at 5 Fame, and does increase your "effective caster level" (it explicitly mentions spells per day and spells known) by one. So you can easily have a one-level dip at level 3 or so without losing any spells, only class features.
At 35 fame, that increases to 3. Enjoy your three levels in any class you want without losing any spellcasting. You should be able to get that around Level 10 or so.

And that's not even the full benefit. The various guilds have other benefits. Heck, one of the academies (which give different fame-rewards by default, but hey, in theory you could join both) just flat-out gives you Druid-spells on your Arcane list, albeit at two spell levels higher. Still pretty insane.


The whole thing is clearly something for the GM to structure campaigns around, and not something that's assumed default. Really, you shouldn't allow it in most campaigns - the power level is just wildly divergent. It ranges from "make a skill a class skill or gain a minor diplomacy bonus" to, well "flat-out advance your spellcasting".

[Extra Anchovies]

Cool, thanks.

And my idea was to combine the spellstrike of Magus VMC (plus all the other amazing goodies it grants) with an arcane spell list, since those tend to have most of the touch spells I'd want to be spellstriking with. Wizard is just the best natural fit since it's Int-based (some Magus abilities are int-based, not just their spells) and has such a big spell list.
Taking Oracle as a VMC to get martial proficiencies and then locking me out of Magus VMC I wanted to combo w/ Eldritch Knight is self-defeating.

Blade Adept Arcanists can get Spellstrike too, but how it's worded you might still need to pick up Broad Study to spellstrike with Arcanist spells that aren't also on the Magus list. Blade Adept Arcanist 7 VMC Oracle allows for single-classed EK entry with spellstrike (and a Black Blade, too).

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, I had a thought "Arcanist is like Wizard or Sorc on steroids, so maybe they'd make a better base for this idea." Then I saw Blade Adept and that Arcanist outshines my whole build idea all on its own.

I stopped paying attention to PF right around when the hybrid classes came out, I forgot that Arcanist had an archetype to obsolete nearly any other class.

[Rainshine]

I find it interesting that Oracle is the only VMC that seems to gives very specific limits on what you can do with it. While it doesn't specify mysteries, it does specify available revelations, so if you don't take the right mysteries, you don't get anything? Given that one of the revelations I'd have been interested in VMCing for (Awesome Display) isn't on the list of approved revelations, I'm going with the explanation it's only a example list of revelations available.
VMC into Hunger or Wolf-Scarred Oracle gives you a permanent bite attack that actually increases in damage, so that might be mildly useful for some Natural Weapons builds?

[Keledrath]

I'm pretty sure the listed revelations are very much not examples. There are some very pointed omissions (both Cha to AC revelations, for example)

[grarrrg]

I'm pretty sure the listed revelations are very much not examples. There are some very pointed omissions (both Cha to AC revelations, for example)

^ This ^
They are not examples, there are the only allowed options.
You'll note that even if a Revelation is shared between Mysteries, one VMC-Mystery may allow it, while another does not.

Such as Combat Healer. If you take Battle Mystery it is an option. But if you take Life Mystery it is NOT an option.

[Rainshine]

Fair enough. Then why don't they say the Mysteries are limited? So you could select Metal or Wood Mystery, but be unable to take any revelations?

[Arbane]

I'm pretty sure the listed revelations are very much not examples. There are some very pointed omissions (both Cha to AC revelations, for example)

Sp if you had a Ring of Revelation containing a revelation for your mystery that wasn't on the VMC-approved list, could you use it?

[Psyren]

Sp if you had a Ring of Revelation containing a revelation for your mystery that wasn't on the VMC-approved list, could you use itn

As written, you don't just need the right Mystery to use a Ring of Revelation, you need to also be an Oracle. Not only does VMC not make you an Oracle, going with VMC Oracle means you can't be an Oracle because you can't normal multiclass and variant multiclass into the same class on that character. So to use a Ring of Revelation without being an Oracle, you will need to UMD whether you VMC or not.

[Serafina]

RAW?
It's is admittedly a bit muddy - but let's go by "VMC gives you exactly what it says it does, and not anything it doesn't explicitly say it does."

Then you never actually gain a level in your secondary class, since it never says that you do. It does say you "choose a secondary class", and are thus a member of that class, but it's never defined what that means.

That's a pretty important question for a number of feats that have class levels as prerequisites. RAW, you never fulfill them since you don't have any "class levels", at most you have "effective class levels" - those are defined already. Characters with animal companions typically have an "effective druid level" for those, but not for anything else, and you wouldn't argue that they're druids.

But!
We already know of a way a character can use a magic item that is for another class!
Use Magic Device - Emulate a Class.
That does explicitly treat you as a member of that class, with class levels and all.
Now, normally the ring wouldn't do anything if you did that, since you'd be lacking a Mystery for the ring to work with. But you do explicitly have the Mystery class feature - you just have a smaller list and don't qualify for a feat, but it's still explicitly a class feature. And the ring doesn't say anything about giving a revelation from a list.
So it goes like this:
- Do you have Oracle levels for the ring to activate? UMD says yes.
- Do you have the Mystery the ring is associated with? VMC says yes.
- Do you meet the oracle level requirement? VMC says yes
- You thus get Revelation X from Mystery Y. The ring doesn't care about limited lists, since it never says so.
So yes, it should give you that revelation. Congratulations, you can grab Charisma instead of Dex to AC for 10k gold and UMD-investment.

Of course, it'd be easy to say you shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops. Or to call shenanigans and to say that you could only gain a revelation from your list. Or to point at the extremely silly "Unofficial FYI" that somehow says that "this ring does not work for non-oracles" prevents the ring from working - even if you emulate oracle-levels via UMD.