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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Someone may have pointed this out already, but it just occurred to me that Odin's line before his vote is especially apt.

    In this strip we see the worlds within worlds: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html

    And here we have yarn winding yarn, with Odin on the scene:
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html
    Assistant costume designer of the Thog Fan Club.

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    This post made me think, actually. Odin said he saw yarn winding yarn. Obviously, the fabric of creation is yarn, but so is the snarl. And now there's a world imprisoned within the world, where the snarl was imprisoned. I may be stating the obvious here, and I may also be completely wrong, but it looks to me like the new world was made (wound) by the snarl itself.

    This was an odd realization to register and de-lurk for.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonsul View Post
    This post made me think, actually. Odin said he saw yarn winding yarn. Obviously, the fabric of creation is yarn, but so is the snarl. And now there's a world imprisoned within the world, where the snarl was imprisoned. I may be stating the obvious here, and I may also be completely wrong, but it looks to me like the new world was made (wound) by the snarl itself.

    This was an odd realization to register and de-lurk for.
    I've been thinking about this too. "The Fabric of the World" is what strip #273 calls it. Worlds which ARE made of yarn. And so maybe the Snarl made the world. Or the creation of the Snarl also made that world. Or that world IS the Snarl. Or something.

    I've also been thinking about how that same strip pretty much says that it's the fault of the gods, collectively, that the Snarl even exists. They created it by fighting over the yarn. Sure, when creation is at stake, who cares whose fault it is? But if even Roy is having doubts that the quest is what we thought it was, then it's worth taking a look at how we got here.
    Last edited by goodyarn; 2015-08-25 at 01:24 PM.
    Assistant costume designer of the Thog Fan Club.

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Beyond the references to earlier strips (and possibly a reference to the Norns in Norse mythology), I've wondered about Odin's phrase in more concrete terms.

    A practical problem for prison escapes by tunneling is where does one put the dirt? Guards tend to notice huge mounds of dirt showing up in prison barracks...

    So, here's the Snarl -- imprisoned within the threads of reality that make up the prime material plane -- picking away, scraping at them, trying to escape. Say, the Snarl starts loosening a thread here, a thread there. Where does the Snarl put those threads? Does he "wind" them up into a ball, inadvertently ordering them, slowly creating a "world within a world"? In so doing, does this slowly change the Snarl's nature, from a creature of pure destructiveness into one capable of creation?

    Does the Snarl now want to create more, perhaps, life to populate this empty world, but does not know how? When psionically contacted by another intelligent living being, does the Snarl react by rushing towards her, eager for contact and instruction, while still capable of destruction?

    Are many of the gods "fighting the last war", instead of realizing that the Snarl has been changed by its experiences in prison? Is Odin's foresight seeing other possibilities?
    Last edited by Tom Lehmann; 2015-08-25 at 08:40 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Bad Wolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lehmann View Post
    Beyond the references to earlier strips (and possibly a reference to the Norns in Norse mythology), I've wondered about Odin's phrase in more concrete terms.

    A practical problem for prison escapes by tunneling is where does one put the dirt? Guards tend to notice huge mounds of dirt showing up in prison barracks...

    So, here's the Snarl -- imprisoned within the threads of reality that make up the prime material plane -- picking away, scraping at them, trying to escape. Say, the Snarl starts loosening a thread here, a thread there. Where does the Snarl put those threads? Does he "wind" them up into a ball, inadvertently ordering them, slowly creating a "world within a world"? In so doing, does this slowly change the Snarl's nature, from a creature of pure destructiveness into one capable of creation?

    Does the Snarl now want to create more, perhaps, life to populate this empty world, but does not know how? When psionically contacted by another intelligent living being, does the Snarl react by rushing towards her, eager for contact and instruction, while still capable of destruction?

    Are many of the gods "fighting the last war", instead of realizing that the Snarl has been changed by its experiences in prison? Is Odin's foresight seeing other possibilities?
    Well the Snarl was born out of conflict and anger, so its very unlikely that it would change its nature. But its always possible. I always viewed the WwtW (world within the world) as being populated by all the souls of the people that the Snarl 'destroyed'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Sorcerers are also based on Charisma. If a Wizard studies the cheat codes to reality, the Sorcerer literally just glares or winks at the universe. And the universe listens.
    Quote Originally Posted by foobar1969 View Post
    Flexibility is awesome, but I'd sacrifice that spellbook in a heartbeat to be a 24-7 flying hentai apocalypse demon.


    First Eternal foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    Well the Snarl was born out of conflict and anger, so its very unlikely that it would change its nature. But its always possible. I always viewed the WwtW (world within the world) as being populated by all the souls of the people that the Snarl 'destroyed'.
    Remember that Laurin didn't find any signs of life on the planet...not sure if that would fit well with that description.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Bad Wolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by theasl View Post
    Remember that Laurin didn't find any signs of life on the planet...not sure if that would fit well with that description.
    She didn't find any signs of life in the middle of the ocean. I looked through the SRD, and she may have been using either Touchsight or Read Thoughts, both of which have a 60 ft range. Though Touchsight is augmentable, but it seemed like she didn't have much power points left. Not sure about the abundance of sea life in square feet, but its possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Sorcerers are also based on Charisma. If a Wizard studies the cheat codes to reality, the Sorcerer literally just glares or winks at the universe. And the universe listens.
    Quote Originally Posted by foobar1969 View Post
    Flexibility is awesome, but I'd sacrifice that spellbook in a heartbeat to be a 24-7 flying hentai apocalypse demon.


    First Eternal foe of the Draconic Lord, battling him across the multiverse in whatever shapes and forms he may take.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by theasl View Post
    Remember that Laurin didn't find any signs of life on the planet...not sure if that would fit well with that description.
    Not just no signs of life.

    No signs of life in an area that should be TEEMING with life. We're not talking about a desert here. Any ocean has an absolutely absurd amount of life in any cross section of it. For there to be nothing there at all is a very bad sign.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2015-08-26 at 01:50 AM.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post
    Well the Snarl was born out of conflict and anger...
    We don't know that. That's what the Order has been told, but even Roy has openly questioned how reliable, or complete, the Snarl story is. After all, it's all ultimately hearsay.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Not just no signs of life.

    No signs of life in an area that should be TEEMING with life. We're not talking about a desert here. Any ocean has an absolutely absurd amount of life in any cross section of it. For there to be nothing there at all is a very bad sign.
    Eh, considering how often the scanner-thingys Star Trek gave the Information "no lifesigns" when pointed at a worldspanning rainforest it could just be a sign that Laurin's ability doesn't work right. I mean we know from the fact that the continents of the rift-world appeared green that there should be at least plantlife.
    And depending how she scans the rift it could be possible that the local life just doesn't show up on Laurin's "radar".

    Not that I think that is likely, the possibility that the Snarl, should it be the one who shaped this world, just hasn't created (non-plant) life (yet).
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    My mind immediately jumped to 'wheels within wheels' and decided that Redcloak would make a decent Harkonnen...

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Eh, considering how often the scanner-thingys Star Trek gave the Information "no lifesigns" when pointed at a worldspanning rainforest it could just be a sign that Laurin's ability doesn't work right. I mean we know from the fact that the continents of the rift-world appeared green that there should be at least plantlife.
    And depending how she scans the rift it could be possible that the local life just doesn't show up on Laurin's "radar".

    Not that I think that is likely, the possibility that the Snarl, should it be the one who shaped this world, just hasn't created (non-plant) life (yet).
    Laurin explicitly said that she didn't sense any fish, so she WAS looking for them specifically.

    The Star Trek comparison is nonsensical - this is a D&D based world.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    Laurin explicitly said that she didn't sense any fish, so she WAS looking for them specifically.

    The Star Trek comparison is nonsensical - this is a D&D based world.
    All Laurin sensing no fish tells us is that there are no fish in range. It is unlikely but not impossible that there are no fish in this area because the Snarl is.

    And I know my comparison wasn't exactly the most fitting one. It was just the first one that came to my mind regarding unreliable scanning abilities.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by goodyarn View Post
    And here we have yarn winding yarn, with Odin on the scene:
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html
    Another meaning of "yarn" is "tale"... so "yarn winding yarn" may reference stories or narratives built out of other stories or narratives. For example, out of the story of Drawmij's Instant Summons' origins, came the spell of the same name used in published rules by untold AD&D players, including one Rich Burlew, and atop some of those stories was spun a yarn about another meaning of Drawmij''s Instant Summons in Order of the Stick.

    So, what specific meaning of yarn was Odin referencing?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Bulldog Psion's Avatar

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    The combination of "world within worlds" with "yarn winding yarn" really makes me think that the "yarn" part refers to the Snarl using the threads of reality for creation, rather than just being destructive.

    It's a lot more satisfying, IMO, than "yarn" being used to mean stories.

    Which is a better interpretation: "I see worlds within worlds, and the Snarl weaving the threads of reality"

    or...

    "I see worlds within worlds, and a story winding a story."

    The first is almost poetic, in a slightly amusing way; the second is pretty dull. Also, the first is topical, while the second is so generic as to be almost pointless. Which is why I greatly prefer #1 until proven otherwise.
    Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2015-08-27 at 09:56 PM.
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    The first is almost poetic, in a slightly amusing way; the second is pretty dull. Also, the first is topical, while the second is so generic as to be almost pointless. Which is why I greatly prefer #1 until proven otherwise.
    And if the specific denotation of yarn is "lie" as in "spinning a yarn" as in lies built on lies, and Maybe we haven't been told everything about the rifts?

    I find that approach to be terrifically satisfying. I don't quite know what Rich is angling at with "yarn winding yarn," but I do know Rich is good with surprising twists of meaning.
    Last edited by Lexible; 2015-08-28 at 06:27 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    The Snarl is a complicated mish-mash of the various Gods attempting to out-create each other.

    Perhaps the Snarl is a sort of Frankenstein's Monster attempting to create stories, worlds, people and life out of frustration, confusion, depression or necessity. "Yarn winding yarn" might refer to how the Snarl first appeared: as a sort of stringy colored being like a spaghetti monster with a face; but also what it's doing. It was born from the various gods trying to create, and it may have eventually set out to just that.


    Perhaps the Snarl shares the temperaments of the Gods at any point in time. When they were fighting for control, the Snarl soon after was fighting them too. But they've been ruling, guiding, and leading the people for awhile now, so maybe the Snarl is trying to do that too.

    It's an epic-level Mimic made out of divine string.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    I was discussing this out the day the comic releasing, here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-of-the-Snarl for more fodder for discussion.

    Not nagging you, thanks for bringing it up again and having more to say, I am just confused as to why barely anyone responded when I posted...

    So yeah, I agree that this is huge information and practically confirmation of the previously poorly founded theory that the Snarl was creating the world inside the rifts. (I would recommend reading the topic that I linked to, there is a lot of good information in those couple posts. Maybe a mod could merge the two?)
    Last edited by FallenFallcrest; 2015-08-29 at 11:02 AM.
    In DnD you find a lot about people. I found out that my friends are willing to let someone die in order to salvage and sell the arrow piercing his chest.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn..."

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenFallcrest View Post
    I was discussing this out the day the comic releasing, here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-of-the-Snarl for more fodder for discussion.

    Not nagging you, thanks for bringing it up again and having more to say, I am just confused as to why barely anyone responded when I posted...
    Cool thread. Slightly fewer replies but slightly more views, no? Anyway, I don't mind merging the two threads; I think they go together.

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenFallcrest View Post
    So yeah, I agree that this is huge information and practically confirmation of the previously poorly founded theory that the Snarl was creating the world inside the rifts.
    Here's a slightly different interpretation: "Yarn winding yarn" also is how you make a ball of yarn from a single long strand, which would imply that the yarn winding and the yarn being wound are not two different things, but continuations of the same thing. The world is not a distinct creation of the Snarl. It is part of the Snarl. And we could keep going and say that the Snarl is made from the same yarn as our world.
    Last edited by goodyarn; 2015-08-29 at 12:37 PM.
    Assistant costume designer of the Thog Fan Club.

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