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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Spoiler: Regarding the fluff of this class.
    Show

    As it stands right now, the fluff of this class is centered around lawful characters. By no means feel that you can't work this class into other rolls. For example, you could change the honor points into devotion points, merely having the knight be a soldier devoted to any cause.

    On one final note, I did make this class very similar to the monk for a reason. In your campaign, you might wind up having both monks and knights, and have at least one character who has learned a bit from both schools. If you want, you might have honor and ki points ultimately be the same energy, just utilized in different ways. The choice is up to you as a DM or player.


    Knight:


    Yes, I am aware of the irony of making a picture of Jaime Lannister be the cover art for a class about devotion to law.

    His knees collapse under him as he falls to the ground, having just defeated the last of his enemies. He begins a prayer to his goddess, begging and pleading her to make this trial end, but knowing that he will continue to fight for her until his last breath if that was required of him, because he swore a vow to do so.

    Charging down the hill on the back of a direwolf, the knight plunges her greatsword into foe after foe. The rest of the battlefield is a blur to her, as she charges straight for the general of the advancing army. She knows that if she is successful in defeating her enemy, that her only reward might be a bloody death at the hands of her foes. She keeps on charging forward, because she swore a vow to do so.

    The king walks by, and the knight follows. He hated this king, and nearly every thing he stands for, being one of the countless of corrupt and opulent nobles of his poor kingdom. The king beckons him to come with him, and he does so. It was his job to guard the king, in spite of what he might feel, he would continue to protect him, because he swore a vow to do so.

    The soldier is battered and bloody, and the enemy standing above her, mocking her, is vulnerable now. With the last of her strength, she picks up her maul, and swings it up towards the enemy's head with all of her strength. The enemy falls to the ground after she hears the sickening crunch off his skull. She would never yield to her enemies, because she swore a vow to do so.

    The general finishes giving a speech to his men, and turns to face the enemy. With one final, resounding cry he rushes towards his foes, hearing the sounds of thousands of loyal soldiers running behind him. He knew that any of his men would die for him, just as he would likely die today defending his country. He did not hesistate in his charge, because he swore a vow to do so.

    Whatever their origins, knights are soldiers devoted to law, and use that devotion to enable feats beyond the capability of even the most trained fighters. To a knight, honor is everything.

    Level Proficiency Bonus Features Honor Points Superiority Dice Size
    1st +2 Fighting Style, Knightly Oath - -
    2nd +2 Honor Points 2 d4
    3rd +2 Knightly Tradition 3 d4
    4th +2 Ability Score Improvement, Test of Endurance 4 d4
    5th +3 Extra Attack, Precise Strike 5 d4
    6th +3 Knightly Tradition Feature 6 d6
    7th +3 Mettle, Daunting Challenge 7 d6
    8th +3 Ability Score Improvement 8 d6
    9th +4 Improved Knight's Challenge 9 d6
    10th +4 Fully Committed 10 d6
    11th +4 Knightly Tradition Feature 11 d8
    12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 12 d8
    13th +5 Linguistic Knowledge 13 d8
    14th +5 Unyielding Devotion 14 d8
    15th +5 Courtly Knowledge 15 d8
    16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 16 d10
    17th +6 Knightly Tradition Feature 17 d10
    18th +6 No Higher Honor 18 d10
    19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 19 d10
    20th +6 Loyal Beyond Death 20 d10

    Hit Points:
    Hit Dice:1d12 per knight level
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 12+ your constitution modifier.
    Hit Points at Higher Level:1d12(or 7) + your Constitution modifier per knight level after 1st.

    Proficiencies:
    Armor: All armors and shields.
    Weapons: All martial melee weapons, but not ranged weapons or simple weapons. The training s knight goes through involves formal weapons of war, and the use of simple weapons is considered shameful.
    Tools: Vehicles (Land)
    Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
    Skills: Choose two from Animal Handling, Athletics, Intimidation, History Medicine, Persuasion, and Religion.

    Equipment:
    You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background.
    • A martial melee weapon of your choice
    • (a) A shield (b) another martial weapon of your choice
    • (a) an explorer's Pack, or (b) a dungeoneer's pack
    • Chain mail Armor


    Fighting Style: At level 1, you select a fighting style from the list below.
    Spoiler: Fighting Styles
    Show

    • Crushing Force: You add an additional 1d4 bludgeoning damage on all damage rolls when you deal damage with a bludgeoning weapon.
    • Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
    • Defense: While you are fighting, you get a +1 bonus to AC.
    • Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
    • Hacking Assault: You add an additional 1d4 slashing damage on all damage rolls when you deal damage with a slashing weapon.
    • Penetrating Strike: You add an additional 1d4 piercing damage on all damage rolls when you deal damage with a piercing weapon.
    • Protection:When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.
    • Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.




    Knightly Oath:

    Starting at first level, you swear an oath based on your character's ideals and values. The oath a knight swears is the fundamental part of what separates them from the common soldier. The selection made here will effect some of the class features you get later in your progression. For now, they are merely a code of conduct that you, as a knight, have sworn to uphold and follow.

    Spoiler: Knightly Oaths
    Show
    Oath of Protection: As a knight, you posses physical strength and abilities that set you above the common folk. Upon taking this oath, you are tasked with protecting those who are weaker than you are, with your life if necessary. This oath is usually taken by knights who value the benevolence of good in addition to the stability of law. The wording of your oath may vary due to local custom or traditions, but the basic tenants of the oath are as follows:

    • Protect the Innocent: You are sworn to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
    • The Highest Law: While you may be sworn in the service of a lord or king, follow the laws of the land, and to respect just authority, you serve a higher law. If you are given a direct conflict between doing what is lawful and what is good, choose to do what is good. However, you are also obligated to make sure these exceptions occur as infrequently as possible, preferably by changing legal systems as opposed to overturning them entirely.
    • Fight the Wicked: Those who desire nothing but there self improvement at the expense of others are more than likely to run afoul of the law at some point or another. When they do, be their and ensure they are held accountable for their wickedness and brought to justice.
    • The Good Word: You swear a vow to never let any falsehood pass through your lips, unless telling the truth would cause some evil to occur. For example, you would not be obliged to tell the truth to a brutal slave master looking for escaped slaves that you are hiding.


    Oath of Loyalty: You swear an oath to another being, be it a lowly earl of a single keep, a emperor of vast lands, or a deity. You are then expected to serve them faithfully in whatever manner they see fit. This oath is most commonly taken by knights who are ambivalent about the concepts of good and evil, and only care for the value that law brings to society. The wording of your oath may vary due to local custom or traditions, but the basic tenants of the oath are as follows:

    • Unwavering Loyalty: You pledge to serve another being fully and completely until you are released from your oath (usually through death).
    • In Both Letter and Spirit: You follow the laws both as your liege states them and how they are intended to be followed. Any loopholes in the law that you discover are to be reported to your liege so they may be remedied.
    • Bonding Word: Your word is your bond. If you make a commitment to perform an act, you must follow through with it.


    Oath of Might: You openly admit the opinion that many knights keep to themselves ought of either a misguided sense of morality or for the sake of public reputation: you're better and more valuable than the common masses. You trained for years and have the skills and/or blood that set you above the vast majority of others. This oath is often taken by knights who are evil and out for their own benefit, but still have respect for authority (especially when they are the authority) and can work with others. The wording of your oath may vary due to local custom or traditions, but the basic tenants of the oath are as follows:
    • Might Makes Right: You are superior to others. Other people exist to help serve your ends.
    • Rule of the Strong: You are expected to serve those who have the power and strength to rule over you, and to fight against those who would fight against the rule of those in power (unless you feel that they are more worthy and capable of dominating others than the current ruler).
    • Oathbender: While you are forbidden from telling direct falsehoods, you are allowed to find loopholes or obscure legal references and twist them to your benefit.


    Honor Points:
    Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to draw upon your honor to enable various abilities. Your access to this personal strength is represented by a number of honor points. Your knight level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Honor Points column of the Knight table. You can spend these points to fuel various features. You start knowing three basic abilities: Knights' Challenge, an ability specific to the knightly oath you swore at level 1, and two martial maneuvers. You gain more abilities as you progress in the knight class.

    When you spend a honor point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest. At the end of a short rest, you regain an amount of honor points equal to your charisma modifier (minimum of one). You regain all of your expended honor points after a long rest. You must spend at least 30 minutes of a rest reflecting on your values and beliefs as a knight, and how you have lived up to those values.

    Furthermore, by acting in a shameful and dishonorable way, you can lose honor points. Performing any of the following acts is considered dishonorable, and will result in the loss of an honor point. If you have no honor points remaining, and you commit one of the following acts, you have disadvantage on all attack rolls until you regain your honor points.
    Spoiler: Dishonorable Acts
    Show
    • Oathbreaking: breaking any one of the tenants that you swore to uphold when you took your knightly oath.
    • Dishonorable Combat: Attacking any enemy that is helpless, baring an execution that you are expected or ordered to carry out. An enemy you trip and knock prone in combat wouldn't be considered helpless, nor would a mage who does not hold a weapon but is capable of casting spells. However, a sleeping or unconscious enemy would be considered helpless, as would a peasant who has no training in warfare.
    • Lawbreaking: Breaking any law that is part of the land you reside in is considered dishonorable, provided that following the law would not cause you to break your knightly oath.


    Some abilities that use honor points require saving throws. You calculate the saving throws for honor abilities usng the following formula:

    8+ Your Charisma Modifier + Your Proficiency Modifier

    Knight's Challenge: As a bonus action, you can attempt to compel a creature into a duel with you by spending one honor point. One creature that you can see within range must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is drawn to you, compelled by your sense of honor and a sense of obligation to answer your challenge. For the duration, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against creatures other than you, and it must attempt to engage you in combat. The target of this challenge does not recklessly attack you, but rather fights you in a way suited to it's fighting style. A mage can still cast AOE spells, but you must be one of the targets of the effect.

    This effect ends if you attack any other creature besides the creature you challenged with this ability, and lasts until either you or your target have been killed or knocked unconscious. You cannot have two enemies targeted by this ability at the same time, but you may target a new enemy with this ability after defeating your initial target of the knight's challenge.


    Knightly Oath Feature: You gain a defensive feature related to the oath you swore when you took your first knight level
    Spoiler: Knightly Oath Feature:
    Show


    Oath of Protection Feature: Sworn Shield: As a reaction, you can spend one honor point to defend an ally of yours within ten feet of you or yourself. If you use this ability on yourself, until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack. If you use this ability to defend an ally, you move towards them so that you are within 5 feet of them, provided you are not already within 5 feet of them. That ally then has a +5 bonus to their AC until the start of your next turn, as long as they stay within 5 feet of you for that period of time.

    Oath of Loyalty Feature: Unyielding Conviction: As a reaction, you can spend one honor point to grant yourself advantage on a Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma saving throw.

    Oath of Might Feature: Indomitable Prowess: As a reaction, you can spend one honor point to grant yourself advantage on a Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution saving throw.



    Martial Maneuvers: Starting at level 2, you gain access to one of the martial maneuvers listed on page 71 of the players handbook. You learn additional maneuvers at levels 7, 12, and 17. The size of the superiority dice you use is listed in the Knight class table. Every time use a martial maneuver, you use one honor point. For maneuvers that require a saving throw, you use the same saving throw you use for all other features that use honor points.

    Knightly Tradition: While your training as a knight has granted you knowledge of a wide variety of fighting systems your knightly tradition defines what part of knighthood you were given the most training in. Your tradition grants you features at 3rd level and again at 6th, 11th, and 17th level.

    Ability Score Improvement:When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

    Test of Endurance: Starting at level 4, you issue a call out to your enemies, attempting to force them to attack you. Using this ability expends one of your honor points. This works identically to your Knight's Challenge ability, but you force all of your enemies within 50 feet of you to make a saving throw or be subject to it's effect. The effect ends when you have either been killed or knocked unconscious, or all of the individuals under the effect have been reduced to zero hit points.

    Extra Attack: Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

    Precise Strike: Your training as a fine warrior allows you to make accurate stikes even under the most strenuous of circumstances. You can spend one honor point to make a normal attack role when you would otherwise have to make an attack role with disadvantage.

    Mettle: Starting at level seven, if you are subjected to an effect which requires a constitution saving throw that allows you to make a save to take half damage (such as from the spell cone of cold), you take no damage instead.

    Daunting Challenge: Starting at level seven, you can spend one honor point to issue a terrifying threat to your enemies within 30 feet of you. If your enemies fail a charisma saving throw, they become frightened of you.

    Improved Knight's Challenge Starting at level 9, you fight at a greater capacity when you issue a knight's challenge, knowing that your reputation as a skilled fighter is on the line. You add half your proficiency bonus (rounded down) to your attack and damage rolls against a target who is affected by your knight's challenge.

    Fully Committed: Starting at level 10, you have purged yourself of all doubts regarding your choice to serve the side of law in it's eternal fight against chaos. You become immune to the charmed condition.

    Linguistic Knowledge: Starting at level 13, you can learn another language of your choice. Prior to obtaining this rank, your character could be in the process of learning bits and pieces of the language over time, and might carry around a book or scroll with instructions on how to learn the language for the sake of roleplaying purposes.

    Unyielding Devotion: Your loyalty to order allows you to resist harmful effects imposed on you by magic. Starting at level 4, whenever you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 1 honor point to reroll it and take the second result.

    Courtly Knowledge: Starting at level 15, you can gain proficiency in additional knight class skill.

    No Higher Honor: Starting at level 18, you regain all of your honor points after a short or long rest.

    Loyal beyond Death: Your commitment to fulfilling your code of honor is strong enough to keep your soul bound to your body even when you have received mortal wounds. At level 20, if you are reduced to zero hit points, you may expend an honor point to remain conscious. You must spend an additional honor point every round if you wish to remain conscious and fighting. If you choose to stop spending honor points or have no honor points left to spend at the start of your turn, you immediately die unless you have been healed to a positive hit point total.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-30 at 12:42 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Michael7123's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Spoiler: About the Templar and Balance:
    Show

    In core fifth edition, the way of the four elements tradition was an attempt by WOC to allow a monk to have access to a sort of pseudo spellcasting. The problem with this is that it burns through your Ki at an absurdly high rate.

    I find it interesting that even though the developers had a perfectly balanced mechanic that gave spellcasting to the fighter and rouge, they choose to build a completely knew system for the monk. The Templar subclass is what the way of the four elements subclass should have looked like, in my opinion.


    Templar:



    Spellcasting:
    When you reach 3rd level, you augment your martial prowess with the ability to cast divine spells, having sworn yourself into the service of a deity. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the paldin spell list.

    Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the cleric spell list. You learn an additional cleric cantrip of your choice at 10th level.

    Spell Slots. The Templar Spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell cure wounds and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast cure wounds using either slot.

    Spell Selection at 1st and higher Level You choose the cantrips you know from the cleric spell list. After you select your cantrips, either pick a paladin oath based on your knightly oath (oath of devotion for the knight's oath of protection, oath of vengeance for the knight's oath of loyalty, and the oathbreaker paladin option for the knight's oath of might), or choose a cleric domain associated with the deity you worship. The first two spells of every spell level you learn must be taken from the oath or domain choice respectively. All other spells you learn must be taken from the paladin spell list.

    For when you first enter the Templar archetype at third level, you know three spells. If you took the knightly oath of protection at your first level, you would know the spells protection from evil and good and sanctuary, and know one more 1st level paladin spell of your choice. Furthermore, when you first gain access to second level spells when you reach knight level seven, you only learn one additional spell. You would only be able to learn a spell from either the domain or paladin oath you have access too. Once you learn all the spells of any given level from either a domain or oath spell list, the rest of your spells you learn are paladin spells.
    Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the non domain spells you know with another spell of your choice from the paladin spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

    Spellcasting Ability. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your spells, since you learn your spells through divine inspiration and utilize them through your force of will. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a charisma spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
    Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus +
    your Charisma modifier
    Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus +
    your Charisma modifier

    Spoiler: Templar Spellcasting Table
    Show

    Level Cantrips
    Known
    Spells
    Known
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th
    3rd 2 3 2 — — —
    4th 2 4 3 — — —
    5th 2 4 3 — — —
    6th 2 4 3 — — —
    7th 2 5 4 2 — —
    8th 2 6 4 2 — —
    9th 2 6 4 2 — —
    10th 3 7 4 3 — —
    11th 3 8 4 3 — —
    12th 3 8 4 3 — —
    13th 3 9 4 3 2 —
    14th 3 10 4 3 2 —
    15th 3 10 4 3 2 —
    16th 3 11 4 3 3 —
    17th 3 11 4 3 3 —
    18th 3 11 4 3 3 —
    19th 3 12 4 3 3 1
    20th 3 13 4 3 3 1


    Axiomatic Smite: Starting at 6th level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend honor points to deal additional damage to the target. You deal 2d8 for expending 1 honor point plus 1d8 for each additional honor point you spend, to a maximum of 5d8. The type of damage you deal depends on the oath you swore at first level. If you swore the oath of protection, you deal radiant damage. If you took the oath of loyalty, you deal force damage. If you swore the oath of might, you deal necrotic damage.

    High Magic: Starting at level 11, you can spend honor points to regain spell slots that you have already used. Regaining a 1st level spell slot costs 3 honor points. Regaining a 2nd level spell slot costs 5 honor points. Regaining a 3rd level spell slot costs 7 honor points. Regaining a 4th level spell slot costs 9 honor points.

    Religious Focus Starting at level 17, you can add twice your proficiency modifier to concentration checks you make on Templar spells.

    Cavalier:

    Special Mount: Starting at level 3, you gain access to a special mount.
    Choose a beast that is no larger than Large and that has a challenge rating of 1/3rd your character level or lower (rounding up). Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. The beast has a number of hit dice equal to it's normal hit dice, or an amount of dice equal to half of your character level, whichever is higher.

    In addition to it's other abilities, the mount moves at a far faster rate than other animals of it's kind. Take your knight level, and look at the monk class in the player's handbook. Your mount's speed increases by an amount equal to the monk's unarmored movement speed at an equivalent level, or by half that amount if you mount is wearing any sort of armor.

    The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative, though it's actions never take your action. On your turn, if you are riding the beast, it will move where you direct it to. Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make a single attack roll with your beast once per round while you attack. If the beast dies, you can obtain another one.

    In addition, you may spend honor points to execute a number of abilities while riding your mount. The abilities are listed below:

    Full Attack: By spending an honor point, your mount may attack as if it was taking the attack action on it's own.

    Charge: By spending two honor points, you direct your mount to move up to a maximum of twice it's speed in a straight line. At the end of the charge, you may make an attack at advantage against one target. If the attack is successful, add twice your proficiency modifier to the damage it deals.

    Demount: If you make an attack against an enemy who is also mounted, you may spend one honor point on a sucessful attack against them to have them make a strength saving throw against your honor point save DC. If they fail the saving throw, they are knocked of their mount and are prone.

    Pounce: After spending 2 honor points, have your mount make a Melee attack roll against a creature of it's size or smaller. The attack deals 1d6+ Strength modifier + your proficiency modifier amount of bludgeoning damage if your mount is Medium or smaller, and 1d8+ Strength modifier + your proficiency modifier amount of bludgeoning damage if your mount is Large. If the attack roll is successful, make a strength check with your mount opposed to a strength check made by the target of the pounce. If the target is smaller than your mount, it has disadvantage on this strength check. If your mount gets a higher strength check, the target becomes prone and is considered to be grappled by your beast. Your beast may make a full attack against the creature it has prone in subsequent rounds , even if you attack a separate creature. After you make the pounce, your mount can't move any further for that round.

    Trample: By spending 1 honor point, you may overrun an enemy. Have your mount an opposed strength check against the target you wish to trample. You have advantage on this check if the target is smaller than your mount, and cannot trample enemies who are larger than your mount. If this attack is successful, the target is nocked prone and takes 2d6 bludgeoning damage if your mount is medium, and 3d6 bludgeoning damage if your mount is large. You may spend honor points to run over enemies during a charge.

    Ride By Attack: Starting at level 6, if your mount's movement never provokes attacks of opportunity. Furthermore, if your mount moves past an enemy creature as part of it's movement, you may spend one honor point to make an attack against that creature. You may combine this feature with a charge, attacking several enemies when you move through a straight line.

    Noble Steed: Starting at level 11, your mount gains resistance to all non magical weapon damage.

    Devastating Charge: Starting at level 17, you can spend 5 honor points instead of 2 when you charge. If the attack is successful, you deal double damage on the attack.

    Sentinel:


    Eternal Vigilance: You are always ready and prepared for a fight, even when you don't have your armor donned. Danger doesn't always come from a field of battle, so you have trained in a variety of defensive techniques. You can spend an honor point at the start of an encounter to increase your AC by one. For each additional tradition feature you gain (at levels 6, 11, and 17), you can spend an additional honor point to increase your AC by another point, up to a maximum of a +4 bonus to AC costing 4 honor points at level 17.

    Perfect Guardian: Starting at level 6, you can use any of the defensive abilities granted by any knightly oath at level two. While these abilities are geared to benefiting the desires and values of an individual oath, none of them are inherently good, evil, or nuetral, so you can learn them without fear of violating your oath or alignment.

    Improved Mettle: Starting at level 11, if you fail a constitution save that normally allows you to take half damage on a successful save, you only take half damage from failing the saving throw. You still take no damage when you succeed on the saving throw.

    Sublime Defense: Every other attack against you is made at disadvantage, unless other circumstances would give that attack advantage. In that case, the attack becomes a regular attack.

    Vanguard:


    Honed In Battle: Starting at level 3, every time you reduce an enemy to zero hitpoints in an honorable method (without loosing any honor points by committing a dishonorable act) , you regain an honor point.

    Whirlwind Strike: Starting at level 6, you may spend 3 honor points to execute a single strike that manages to target all enemies within 5 feet of you.

    Cleave: Starting at level 11, when you drop an enemy to zero hitpoints. You may automatically take the attack action on an additional enemy. Additionally, you now land critical hits on both 19's and 20's

    Vorpal Blow: Starting at level 17, when you roll a natural 20 on an attack roll you may spend 5 honor points to make that enemy has to make a constitution saving throw against your honor point save DC. If the enemy fails the saving throw and has a challenge rating equal to or less than half of your character level, it immediately dies. If it either passes the saving throw or has a challenge rating higher than half your character level, you deal triple damage on the attack.

    Marshal:


    Martial Inspiration:
    In the heat of battle can inspire others through your actions in combat. To do so, you use a bonus action on your turn while in combat to choose one creature other than yourself within 60 feet of you who can see you. That creature gains one Martial Inspiration die. The size of the dice is identical to the size of the superiority dice you use when executing martial maneuvers.

    Once within the next 10 minutes, the creature can roll the die and add the number rolled to an attack roll or saving throw it makes. The creature can wait until after it rolls the d20 before deciding to use the Martial Inspiration die, but must decide hefore the DM says whether the roll succeeds ar fails. Once the Martial Inspiration die is rolled. it is lost. A creature can have only one Martial Inspiration die at a time.

    Granting another creature a Martial Inspiration die costs 1 honor point. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once). You regain any expended uses when you finish a long rest.

    Inspiring Leader: Starting at level 6, you gain the inspiring leader feat, but you must spend an honor point for every two members of the party you want to gain the temporary hit points.

    Peerless Commander Starting at level 11 your leadership can help your troops overcome the most daunting challenges. By spending 1 honor point, you candels any ally within 60 feet by removing any disadvantage imposed on an attack roll or saving throw.

    Additionally, you gain proficency on and charisma checks when dealing with soldiers under your command (but not to officers who outrank you). On any charisma check you are already proficient in, you can add your proficency modifer again to that skill when dealing with soldiers who are below you in the chain of command.

    Direct Orders Starting at level 17, you're mere presence induces unyielding commitment from your soldiers. By spending 3 honor points, you may grant any ally within 60 feet who can see or hear you advantage on a saving throw or attack roll.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-30 at 08:28 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Knight: The Power of Honor (WIP) [PEACH]

    The inspiration for this class was twofold.

    1. My desire to convert the knight class from the second player's handbook from 3.5 into 5th edition.

    2. My Desire to re flavor the concept of the monk to be a, well, knight. Both have thematically similar elements, being lawful characters who rely on a force that isn't magic (at least, magic of the variety used by full casting classes).

    If you're trying to judge how balanced this class is, I would recommend comparing it to the monk, as it's chassis is mechanically very similar. Some abilities are stronger than their monk level equivalent, others are weaker. In the end, I think it balances out fairly well.

    At this point, I feel like the class might be slightly weaker than the monk, but I intend for the archtypes to be somewhat stronger than the monk archetypes, so I feel like everything balances out overall.

    Specific list of things I need help on at the moment.
    • I need a level 9 feature. I'm looking for it to be something of a ribbon.
    • Any spelling or grammatical errors I made.
    • Comments on overall balance of the main class.
    • Any archtype ideas you may have. I have ideas of my own, but I might do one that's suggested if it seems good enough.
    • The templar archtype is finished, but I'm not sure if I should nerf it a bit. Thoughts?
    • I need more abilities for the Cavalier level 3 ability.
    • Should the cost of deadly charge be reduced to 4 honor points?
    • The capstone for the cavalier seems underwhelming to me. Any ideas on how to improve it?
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-28 at 06:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Knight: The Power of Honor (Very much a WIP) [PEACH]

    I know it's early days yet, but any particular reason they don't have animal handling as a skill option? It seems like a pretty critical skill for a knight.
    My homebrew: A list of 5e homebrew magitech augments found here, a homebrew race of devil-toads here, and the Professional, an all mundane support class. Criticism is much appreciated!

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    Default Re: Knight: Paladins of Law (Very much a WIP) [PEACH]

    Forgot to add that one. Will do so shortly.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-27 at 08:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Knight: Paladins of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Alright, the main class is basically done at this point. Feedback is needed though, so any suggestions you have are more than welcome.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-27 at 09:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Knight: Paragons of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Mostly you did a good job in recreating the 3.5 version but there a couple of slip of the mechanics that need to be addressed. There is also a couple of blatantly overpowered abilities.
    1. You shouldn't have a feature that really can't be used until a later level.
    2. Your table is missing the Knightly Challenge.
    3. Linguistic and Courtly Knowledge really could be one ability. Given that in history knights of even particular low combat ability gain abilities such as these more than common people or others this really could be your 9th level ribbon. After all only about half of the skills here actually make sense with the title of Courtly Knowledge.
    4. Unyielding Devotion and Fully Committed are strictly worse than other abilities. Either change or add to level.
    5. Force of Law and Loyal Beyond Death are really broken especially the latter. While it is 18th level being able to always make critical hits and have resistance to all damage for 2 battles per short rest is going to out perform any other martial character in the numbers. I understand that you are merely just transporting the capstone but that is what makes it precisely so broken. In 5e there are no negative hit points, you are reduced to 0 hit points in which you must make 3 death saving throws before you fail 3 and/or you get damaged 3 times in which you are stable. However getting stable is rather easy making it very easy for you just to pop back up.
    6. Spreading out the abilities would solve some dead levels.

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    Default Re: Knight: Paragons of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Mostly you did a good job in recreating the 3.5 version but there a couple of slip of the mechanics that need to be addressed. There is also a couple of blatantly overpowered abilities.
    1. You shouldn't have a feature that really can't be used until a later level.
    2. Your table is missing the Knightly Challenge.
    3. Linguistic and Courtly Knowledge really could be one ability. Given that in history knights of even particular low combat ability gain abilities such as these more than common people or others this really could be your 9th level ribbon. After all only about half of the skills here actually make sense with the title of Courtly Knowledge.
    4. Unyielding Devotion and Fully Committed are strictly worse than other abilities. Either change or add to level.
    5. Force of Law and Loyal Beyond Death are really broken especially the latter. While it is 18th level being able to always make critical hits and have resistance to all damage for 2 battles per short rest is going to out perform any other martial character in the numbers. I understand that you are merely just transporting the capstone but that is what makes it precisely so broken. In 5e there are no negative hit points, you are reduced to 0 hit points in which you must make 3 death saving throws before you fail 3 and/or you get damaged 3 times in which you are stable. However getting stable is rather easy making it very easy for you just to pop back up.
    6. Spreading out the abilities would solve some dead levels.
    1. I assume you are talking about the abilities that are tied to your oath that you get at level 1 that cost 2 AP? I'm considering lowering the cost of those abilities to 1AP. Would you think that's too much?

    2. Knightly challenge is acquired at the same time as honor points. Like the various ki abilities a monk gets at level 2, they are covered by "honor points" in the chart.

    3. Those two abilities were meant to replace the monk ability that makes you immortal and the ability that makes you proficient in all languages. Both are ribbons at their perspective levels.

    4. Those abilities are meant to be weaker, in an effort to balance out the fact that I plan to make the archetypes stronger.

    5. I'll probably get rid of force of law and replace it with the ability to regain all honor points after short rests. I'll figure something out for Loyal beyond death.

    6. True, but I'm trying to make sure most monk abilities have a counterpart.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    I have to say it: When I hear the word knight, I imagine a guy wearing plate-mail with a longsword and kiteshield. Not a guy in leather. This seems a bit more like some honourable duelist turned warrior of justice than a knight.
    Not a bad idea at all though. Just doesn't seem like a trained knight, more the guy who picks up the mantle of one without really knowing what they're getting into.
    Apologies for any poor wording, my brain is always broken
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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaDarwin View Post
    I have to say it: When I hear the word knight, I imagine a guy wearing plate-mail with a longsword and kiteshield. Not a guy in leather. This seems a bit more like some honourable duelist turned warrior of justice than a knight.
    Not a bad idea at all though. Just doesn't seem like a trained knight, more the guy who picks up the mantle of one without really knowing what they're getting into.
    I'm confused. While you certainly could play a character like this with this class, I don't know where you got the image of a guy in leather. And you are certainly meant to wield either a sword and shield or a two handed weapon.

    EDIT: Wait, what in the nine hells was I thinking when I put down the armor as light and only gave one martial weapon? Will fix that now.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-29 at 12:04 AM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Almost got that little bit fixed~
    Weapons: All martial melee weapons, but not ranged weapons or ranged weapons. The training s knight goes through involves formal weapons of war, and the use of simple weapons is considered shameful.
    I think what you did was accidentally yoink proficencies from the Dread Necromancer? Now, this is a knight. Good work. Hopefully better than previous renditions.
    Apologies for any poor wording, my brain is always broken
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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by SodaDarwin View Post
    Almost got that little bit fixed~


    I think what you did was accidentally yoink proficencies from the Dread Necromancer? Now, this is a knight. Good work. Hopefully better than previous renditions.
    That's probably what I did. Thanks for pointing out this and the previous mistake. I've edited the class so you don't have proficiency in simple weapons.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    I'll PEACH your Knight if you PEACH my Janissary.

    I like this class. In my opinion, it's what the paladin should have looked like. I might even reflavor it and steal it for my campaign.

    My only concerns are the balance with some of the subclass features, such as templar's super smite. I'm also not sure it really needs the martial maneuvers, although that's not really over powered. I think a good playtesting will iron out the issues and get everything sorted.

    Edit: It also seems strange to me that it references so many other classes. For example, your templar spellcasting ability tells you where to reference the wizard spell list, but tells you to take spells from the cleric and paladin spell list. I think it would be simpler just to create a custom spell list for each oath.

    The Cavalier references the Monk table for its increased mount speed. Could we just copy that into the class for easier reference?

    Sublime Defence seems too powerful. How about this: Whenever you spend Honor Points, you gain 1d4 temporary hit points per point spent. These temporary hit points are cumulative with themselves up to a maximum of your charisma score.
    Last edited by bloodshed343; 2015-08-29 at 10:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Knight: Paragons of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    1. I assume you are talking about the abilities that are tied to your oath that you get at level 1 that cost 2 AP? I'm considering lowering the cost of those abilities to 1AP. Would you think that's too much?

    3. Those two abilities were meant to replace the monk ability that makes you immortal and the ability that makes you proficient in all languages. Both are ribbons at their perspective levels.

    4. Those abilities are meant to be weaker, in an effort to balance out the fact that I plan to make the archetypes stronger.

    6. True, but I'm trying to make sure most monk abilities have a counterpart.
    1. It definitely is strong but it is a reaction. If anything Protection is the one to worry about since it gives a beefed up Shield spell which is already a very strong spell.
    2. But those ribbons are far better than these and they are conceptually exclusive.
    3. But now your Archetypes are too strong, detail later.
    4. The Monk though is a character that incentivises sub-optimal weapon and gear combos with choices of action economy that is often exclusion to one another. As such it shouldn't be a point of balance on something that doesn't have such restrictions, better crowd control, superiority die, and a more resilient base.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2015-08-29 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodshed343 View Post
    I'll PEACH your Knight if you PEACH my Janissary.

    I like this class. In my opinion, it's what the paladin should have looked like. I might even reflavor it and steal it for my campaign.

    My only concerns are the balance with some of the subclass features, such as templar's super smite. I'm also not sure it really needs the martial maneuvers, although that's not really over powered. I think a good playtesting will iron out the issues and get everything sorted.

    Edit: It also seems strange to me that it references so many other classes. For example, your templar spellcasting ability tells you where to reference the wizard spell list, but tells you to take spells from the cleric and paladin spell list. I think it would be simpler just to create a custom spell list for each oath.

    The Cavalier references the Monk table for its increased mount speed. Could we just copy that into the class for easier reference?

    Sublime Defence seems too powerful. How about this: Whenever you spend Honor Points, you gain 1d4 temporary hit points per point spent. These temporary hit points are cumulative with themselves up to a maximum of your charisma score.
    In order:

    Sure, I'll PEACH your class.

    If you use this in your campaign, please tell me how it went.

    The monk gets the unarmed strike and flurry of blows, the knight gets maneuvers. I figured it works out, and gives the player something else to do.

    If the Templar spellcasting ability has any references to wizards, it's because I missed them when I was editing the class. I copy pasted the spellcasting ability form the Eldtrich knight initially. I might create custom spell lists, I haven't decided yet.

    I'll probably post the monk chart soon. I just didn't want to deal with a chart at the moment I made the class.

    That kinda seems under powered for a capstone. I'm not entirely happy with how the ability is now either, but I don't think that's the answer.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    1. To put it simply the Templar is a better caster, tank, and striker than a Paladin. Smite as it is quite controversial but here you give it d12's and than you give it the best spell recovery system in the game.
    2. Rule #1, never make homebrew with the intention of making it more powerful in every way than another unless it is a fix of that option. This is a huge misconception of the Beastmaster being lackluster and just because it may be in some eyes doesn't give you the liberty to make something to beat it in every way possible. The Beastmaster suffers from an effective dead level at its 1st ability being only able to make a tactical choice of choosing between 2 pieces when it should have probably at least had a proficiency or couple rituals with it. At its later levels though it deals very serious damage, arguably more so than the Hunter in typical encounter set ups and expands tactical choice. Yes, it could do better but the Hunter could as well and still doesn't give you the liberty to make a better Beast Master with a Whirlwind Attack on your mount and an unerring Death Strike.
    3. The Sentinel is probably the weakest being that it is so focused on saving itself creating the issue of the Statue complex. However the capstone is very strong and you aren't making a distinction in the text as disadvantage and advantage cancel anyways. While the class itself can solve some of the issues by comparison it is at best annoying while the other two are devastating.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2015-08-29 at 10:59 AM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    In order:

    That kinda seems under powered for a capstone. I'm not entirely happy with how the ability is now either, but I don't think that's the answer.
    What about making it 1d4 + cha per point spent, to a maximum of twice your charisma score?

    Sentinel needs at least one offensive feature.

    Templar and Cavalier need small nerfs, but no real conceptual changes. Another problem with cavalier is the unfeasibility of using mounts in small corridors. For this reason I would shift the power out of the archetypes and into the base class, so the Cavalier doesn't lose so much when it has to dismount. Having the templar choose from the paladin spell list also steps on the paladin's toes, unless you meant this class to replace the paladin. If this class is going to coexist with the paladin, I would give the templar ritual casting as a cleric in place of spellcasting and trade the spell recovery feature for some sort of healing ability, maybe not exactly like lay on hands, but close. Maybe: You may spend honor points as an bonus action to heal a creature within 15' for 1d4 hit points per points spent. You may only spend a number of honor points this way equal to your charisma modifier + 2 before you must finish a long rest.



    I'll add it to my playtest to see how it works.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. To put it simply the Templar is a better caster, tank, and striker than a Paladin. Smite as it is quite controversial but here you give it d12's and than you give it the best spell recovery system in the game.
    2. Rule #1, never make homebrew with the intention of making it more powerful in every way than another unless it is a fix of that option. This is a huge misconception of the Beastmaster being lackluster and just because it may be in some eyes doesn't give you the liberty to make something to beat it in every way possible. The Beastmaster suffers from an effective dead level at its 1st ability being only able to make a tactical choice of choosing between 2 pieces when it should have probably at least had a proficiency or couple rituals with it. At its later levels though it deals very serious damage, arguably more so than the Hunter in typical encounter set ups and expands tactical choice. Yes, it could do better but the Hunter could as well and still doesn't give you the liberty to make a better Beast Master with a Whirlwind Attack on your mount and an unerring Death Strike.
    3. The Sentinel is probably the weakest being that it is so focused on saving itself creating the issue of the Statue complex. However the capstone is very strong and you aren't making a distinction in the text as disadvantage and advantage cancel anyways. While the class itself can solve some of the issues by comparison it is at best annoying while the other two are devastating.
    While I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna nerf axiomatic smite to d8's, I really disagree about the Templar having the best spell recovery in the game. I would agree with you if the knight regained all of it's points at a short rest like a monk, but he doesn't. You only regain an amount of points equal to your charisma modifier until level 18.

    Furthermore, the cost to make spell slots with the knight is much more costly than the sorcerer's method of regaining spells, not only does the sorcerer have to spend fewer points to regain spells, the only other option he has for those points is meta magic. The knight has to divide his points between many different class features, making a 9 point expense to regain a level 4 spell slot a risky move.

    2. Very well then. At a minimum, I think beast master is really underpowered, to the point of being broken. Why should I limit myself to following what I believe is a broken class feature when I'm designing new content? It just seems like I would be setting myself up for failure. Still, I do need to nerf the subclass a bit.

    3. I'll work on making sentinel on par with the other classes then, but I thought having a total of +4 to ac most encounters at level 17 was a pretty powerful feature.
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-29 at 02:02 PM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    While I'm pretty sure that I'm gonna nerf axiomatic smite to d8's, I really disagree about the Templar having the best spell recovery in the game. I would agree with you if the knight regained all of it's points at a short rest like a monk, but he doesn't. You only regain an amount of points equal to your charisma modifier until level 18.

    Furthermore, the cost to make spell slots with the knight is much more costly than the sorcerer's method of regaining spells, not only does the sorcerer have to spend fewer points to regain spells, the only other option he has for those points is meta magic. The knight has to divide his points between many different class features, making a 9 point expense to regain a level 4 spell slot a risky move.

    2. Very well then. At a minimum, I think beast master is really underpowered, to the point of being broken. Why should I limit myself to following what I believe is a broken class feature when I'm designing new content? It just seems like I would be setting myself up for failure. Still, I do need to nerf the subclass a bit.

    3. I'll work on making sentinel on par with the other classes then, but I thought having a total of +4 to ac most encounters at level 17 was a pretty powerful feature.
    1. But of course it eventually does but lets just keep the basic recovery for argument's sake. At every short rest you are probably recovering a 2nd level slot even if you don't have max charisma because of carry over. By the value of slots it is better than Arcane Recovery and if you keep to 1st level slots this is better than the Sorcerer's because unless he is a really lucky Wild Magic Sorcerer the only kind of recovery of points doesn't happen until level 20 for them which is still less than a max Charisma.
    2. In comparison to what? A Beastmaster can get 5 decent attacks off rather consistently and still has the versatility/skill of the Ranger. I am not saying it couldn't be better but there is a difference in making something that is more competitive and/or easier to play right in the general potential of the party as well as the tiers and making something that utter blatantly steps on someone else. The latter is what the Cavalier does as not only does it double the effective actions outside of attack but you can summon new ones with either no action cost to you or one of your attacks. The options in which can easily amount to a double move with a 2d12+56 damage for one of your attacks.
    3. It isn't a matter that it is underpowered by the numbers just that given you have these high numbers and options it can cancel some of your effective options to incentivize enemies to pay attention to you. After all if your AC equals that of the highest in the game your disadvantage effective cancels disadvantage against others since engaging doesn't necessarily mean attack.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Firstly, I've changed axiomatic smite to only grant d8's of damage. Now on to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. But of course it eventually does but lets just keep the basic recovery for argument's sake. At every short rest you are probably recovering a 2nd level slot even if you don't have max charisma because of carry over. By the value of slots it is better than Arcane Recovery and if you keep to 1st level slots this is better than the Sorcerer's because unless he is a really lucky Wild Magic Sorcerer the only kind of recovery of points doesn't happen until level 20 for them which is still less than a max Charisma.
    2. In comparison to what? A Beastmaster can get 5 decent attacks off rather consistently and still has the versatility/skill of the Ranger. I am not saying it couldn't be better but there is a difference in making something that is more competitive and/or easier to play right in the general potential of the party as well as the tiers and making something that utter blatantly steps on someone else. The latter is what the Cavalier does as not only does it double the effective actions outside of attack but you can summon new ones with either no action cost to you or one of your attacks. The options in which can easily amount to a double move with a 2d12+56 damage for one of your attacks.
    3. It isn't a matter that it is underpowered by the numbers just that given you have these high numbers and options it can cancel some of your effective options to incentivize enemies to pay attention to you. After all if your AC equals that of the highest in the game your disadvantage effective cancels disadvantage against others since engaging doesn't necessarily mean attack.
    1. You are correct, but after you replenish that 2nd level slot for 5 honor points, that would be the only perk you would get from that short rest: 1 second level spell slot. Furthermore, assuming you were drained of honor points before this point, you now have no honor points to spend on all your other class features. The option is available when you really need the spell slot, but it shouldn't be used for anything besides an emergency situation where you need a specific second level spell.

    Even still, maybe I'll make a role that says you can only replenish one spell slot of each level per day.

    2. Okay, I'm curious now. How'd you get the 2d12+56 damage? That type of damage should be limited to once or twice per encounter, and even then should be practically limited to once per encounter, being the equivalent of a high level spell's worth of damage.

    3. That's a good point. Still, I'm not sure what I should have the capstone be. A health buff (like suggested by others here) might be good, but it'd have to be a really large one, considering you are playing the ultimate enemy magnet with the Sentinel.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    1. You are correct, but after you replenish that 2nd level slot for 5 honor points, that would be the only perk you would get from that short rest: 1 second level spell slot. Furthermore, assuming you were drained of honor points before this point, you now have no honor points to spend on all your other class features. The option is available when you really need the spell slot, but it shouldn't be used for anything besides an emergency situation where you need a specific second level spell.

    Even still, maybe I'll make a role that says you can only replenish one spell slot of each level per day.

    2. Okay, I'm curious now. How'd you get the 2d12+56 damage? That type of damage should be limited to once or twice per encounter, and even then should be practically limited to once per encounter, being the equivalent of a high level spell's worth of damage.

    3. That's a good point. Still, I'm not sure what I should have the capstone be. A health buff (like suggested by others here) might be good, but it'd have to be a really large one, considering you are playing the ultimate enemy magnet with the Sentinel.
    1. And the Sorcerer gets none, even the level 20 Sorcerer gets less.
    2. 2(devastating charge)[1d12+6(strength, +1 weapon)+12(double prof. bonus from charge)+10(GWM)]. Notice I didn't add any superiority die.
    3. Well the problem is that isn't due to the Sentinel, but the class itself meaning all those heavy hitters are more of a threat.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2015-08-29 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. And the Sorcerer gets none, even the level 20 Sorcerer gets less.
    2. 2(devastating charge)[1d12+6(strength, +1 weapon)+12(double prof. bonus from charge)+10(GWM)]. Notice I didn't add any superiority die.
    3. Well the problem is that isn't due to the Sentinel, but the class itself meaning all those heavy hitters are more of a threat.
    1. As mentioned in my last post, I'm considering limiting the amount of spell slots you may replenish each day to 1 spell slot per spell spell level.

    2. I'll probably remove the part about double your proficiency bonus and make it only your proficiency bonus. That, and move devastating charge to level 17 and noble stead to 11. This puts it more on par with quivering palm.

    EDIT: You know what, I'm keeping the double proficiency bonus, but upping the cost to charge. Devistating charge isn't even as good as quivering Palm, because it doesn't even have a save or die option.

    3. If the class itself is an issue, can you give me some suggestions on how to nerf it a bit?
    Last edited by Michael7123; 2015-08-29 at 11:38 PM.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Alright, finished ( the first draft) of every archetype. Farewell, WIP tag.

    I kinda want to see a all knight party or villain group, each with a different archetype.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Alright, I've seen a lot of talk about my first three archetypes, but nothing about the last two I've made. I need some feedback on the vanguard and marshal.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law (WIP) [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    2. I'll probably remove the part about double your proficiency bonus and make it only your proficiency bonus. That, and move devastating charge to level 17 and noble stead to 11. This puts it more on par with quivering palm.

    EDIT: You know what, I'm keeping the double proficiency bonus, but upping the cost to charge. Devistating charge isn't even as good as quivering Palm, because it doesn't even have a save or die option.

    3. If the class itself is an issue, can you give me some suggestions on how to nerf it a bit?
    Sorry, I didn't get back right away as I am juggling jobs.
    1. Well lets be honest about Quivering Palm. Is it good, yes it really is, but is what you have really comparable? Quivering Palm takes two turns as first you have to hit them with an unarmed attack and then you take your action to use it. Though because it isn't an Attack action you can't use Martial Arts meaning it has a cool down of sorts. Your charge though as it is can be used on any attack during your turn not hindering your action economy in any meaningful way. If anything it can increase it and possibly allow for ridiculous amounts of move speed using it multiple times. It may not be the intention but the text only describes attacks unless the ability says otherwise.
    2. Okay you changed a couple of things, but what I was getting at more is that the Sentinel is so focused on self-defense that the others are more of a threat simply because they have more things to do to other creatures. As such in relation to others it is a bit of Statue. Even a little debuffing would go a long way in giving it a more defined role in the party than a +4 AC

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    I had a whole post written up about how overpowered this class was in almost all ways compared to a Monk and a Fighter. Then I noticed that Honor Points don't all come back until 18th level. You've made this class really difficult to balance and evaluate by giving it so many powerful passive and active abilities, better than stuff a Monk or Fighter gets, but then making its "Ki" and "Superiority Dice" work differently than both the Monk and Fighter's respectively.

    I'd say, in many ways, it is still meaningfully more powerful than a Monk or Fighter, but only getting Charisma mod in Honor points back per short rest is truly limiting. I have to say, I don't like the design decisions made there.
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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Sorry, I didn't get back right away as I am juggling jobs.
    1. Well lets be honest about Quivering Palm. Is it good, yes it really is, but is what you have really comparable? Quivering Palm takes two turns as first you have to hit them with an unarmed attack and then you take your action to use it. Though because it isn't an Attack action you can't use Martial Arts meaning it has a cool down of sorts. Your charge though as it is can be used on any attack during your turn not hindering your action economy in any meaningful way. If anything it can increase it and possibly allow for ridiculous amounts of move speed using it multiple times. It may not be the intention but the text only describes attacks unless the ability says otherwise.

    2. Okay you changed a couple of things, but what I was getting at more is that the Sentinel is so focused on self-defense that the others are more of a threat simply because they have more things to do to other creatures. As such in relation to others it is a bit of Statue. Even a little debuffing would go a long way in giving it a more defined role in the party than a +4 AC
    1. Valid points. I might make it so that the charge has to be set up in a way, having a minimum distance requirement in which the player can only move in a straight line.

    2.While I didn't want to give the sentinel anything remotely considered offensive, debuffing might be fitting. I'll think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I had a whole post written up about how overpowered this class was in almost all ways compared to a Monk and a Fighter. Then I noticed that Honor Points don't all come back until 18th level. You've made this class really difficult to balance and evaluate by giving it so many powerful passive and active abilities, better than stuff a Monk or Fighter gets, but then making its "Ki" and "Superiority Dice" work differently than both the Monk and Fighter's respectively.

    I'd say, in many ways, it is still meaningfully more powerful than a Monk or Fighter, but only getting Charisma mod in Honor points back per short rest is truly limiting. I have to say, I don't like the design decisions made there.
    Alright. Say I were to make honor points be fully regenerated at every short rest (something I am considering). I would have to significantly lower the power of the class, and I'm not sure how I'd go about doing that. Do you have suggestions?

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    Alright. Say I were to make honor points be fully regenerated at every short rest (something I am considering). I would have to significantly lower the power of the class[...]
    Right.

    Do you have suggestions?
    Unfortunately, I really don't. I tried working out my own take on a "Knight" class with full weapon/armor proficiencies and a "Ki Points" like resource with a design that was functionally similar to the Monk, but I ran into similar problems. Balancing the middle and high levels seems to be straightfoward enough, but those low levels are really a pain... I could never work out a satisfactory way to execute the concept without making the low levels just too powerful compared to monks or fighters.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2015-09-02 at 11:50 PM.
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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Right.

    Unfortunately, I really don't. I tried working out my own take on a "Knight" class with full weapon/armor proficiencies and a "Ki Points" like resource with a design that was functionally similar to the Monk, but I ran into similar problems. Balancing the middle and high levels seems to be straightfoward enough, but those low levels are really a pain... I could never work out a satisfactory way to execute the concept without making the low levels just too powerful compared to monks or fighters.
    I'd like to see what you came up with, maybe in a PM you could send me. Maybe I could get some inspiration from what you managed to come up with. It couldn't hurt, anyways.

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    Default Re: The Knight: A Paragon of Law [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael7123 View Post
    I'd like to see what you came up with, maybe in a PM you could send me. Maybe I could get some inspiration from what you managed to come up with. It couldn't hurt, anyways.
    In this thread everyone misunderstood what I was trying to do and I got shouted down pretty hard, but this is the core concept I started working with and was ultimately unsatisfied with.

    EDIT: Re-reading, I guess I didn't get shouted down at all, and was oversensitive, but yeah, I still got nothing but negative responses.

    EDITPARTDEUX: Here's actually a different, really good example of a "Ki Knight" class, in the form of a Samurai. A lot of good design choices there.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2015-09-03 at 12:43 AM.
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