Making an orc horde seem fresh again

[hellspawnfish]

So I recently acquired the dreaded 5th edition books and they rekindled in me the desire for something old-fashioned and cute. Like an orc horde.

The problem is my players are a bit on the genre-savvy side and they've seen quite a lot of orc hordes in their adventuring careers. I really want to make the storyline interesting in itself and not the 'oh great another orc plot to tide us over until we level up enough fight the REAL antagonists of the campaign'.

So I need advice. What I came up so far:

- Change the scenery. I'm torn at the moment between the great planes/steppe/maybe even desert setting and a swing in the other direction with an arctic setting.
- Change up their abilities. Have orcs from one clan use different weapons/fighting styles/even classes. Make the clan differences actually matter in the context of gameplay (I see this scout has blue ink tattoos on his forehead and is carrying a light spear, which identify him as clan X. I now know some useful things about the tactics I'm about to face with this particular scout/his friends, when he brings friends).
- Change up their magic. Give them some cool elemental-related abilities, or tech-related abilities (demonic cyber-implants anyone?), or blood-related abilities. I remember there was something in one of the Faerun numerous supplements in 3.5 about mages that work by etching the spells into their skins.
- Change up the religion. Because frankly, Gruumsh is boring. He was always boring, he will never be not boring.
- Refluff. The hordes as they're described in MM at the moment are good for what they're used for - low-level local-scope adventures meant to transition into something only tangentially orc-related. To make them work as the major campaign baddies and not the warm-up act they'd need to be a bit less one-dimensional. Maybe the race itself is a result of an ancient magic experiment and that's where they got their elemental powers. Maybe because of their savagery they can bind with the spirits of the land and now the land is turning against the humans. Maybe they're the only race hardy enough to survive in the Ye Olde Magical Wasteland (tm) and supply the rare and expensive phlebonitum the mages of the nearby citystates need to work the most potent magics. I frankly want to do all three of those refluffs now, omg >_<
- Some ambiguity? Maybe not all the orc clans turn on the humans? Not sure about that. At what point do orcs stop being orcs?

Sooo, any other advice for injecting some new life into orcs/orc-related campaign? Any orc war stories and interesting twists you came up with?

[Grinner]

It sounds like you're on the right track; you've pretty much laid out the needed changes.

For the Gruumsh issue, you might try switching to some mixture of animism and ancestor worship, tailored to each clan's specific history.

[BootStrapTommy]

Instead of generic Horde of Orc barbarians, wildly swinging axes and falchions willynilly in a blind rage, try a complex high steppes, nomadic equestrian society.

Instead of "Viking monster horde" go "Mongol monster horde". Horses (or equivalent), light/medium armors, lances, bows, and scimitars.

If you wanna desert instead of steppes, maybe make the garbs Middle Eastern flaired, for a Bedouin feel instead (orcs and hobbs are Bedouin inspired in my own campaign setting).

A fun thing to look up would be the Sha'ahoul from Siege of Avalon (obsure old Diablo clone). The Ahoul are orcs and the Shaman are human and together they have a complex equestrian society with Orc warriors, human casters (druidy spellcasters), and half-orc craftsman.

Oh, and they believe that farming, mining and "civilization" in general are an affront to their nature goddess, thus agrarian societies must be violently purged for their heresy (it's why they're the bad guys in Siege)! Nomad or die!

Basically you get the horde feel, but slightly novel with a solution to the Gruumsh issue. Specially given the improbability that any of them actually played Siege.

[noob]

Orcs needs to kill the adventurers else they are going to stay boring for ever.
Making them a threat and putting the players at an edge where they have losses is really great.
Also for you orc hordes maybe try having some signs of distinction like you said but then put orcs having signs entirely independent of their true work for confusing the players and showing the orcs are not machines and can try to surprise.
Then the final thing is bow and arrows.
Give to all your orcs one bow and arrows(that they will draw when appropriate) and they instantly because truly scary because the players can not stand one instant in the line of sight of a group of orcs without risking of dying because of the numerous arrows flying toward them in fact in armies tactics in dnd 5 using a bow until your opponents charge in melee is a really good idea since changing weapons is super fast(even a free action if you let your bow fall and draw a weapon also since orcs are strong the carry limit is not going to be a problem unless they also use an armor).
Regrouping: the orcs should not be spread in their fortress they should be in one huge room most of the time with bows at the right places and some guards who counts who enters and exits for knowing if there is orcs that the players stealthy kills and then in this case all stay in the main room with their bows and arrows and then be one group roaming in the fortress with very very large corridors so that the players have no possibility to fight them once they did killed some orcs.

[VoxRationis]

Instead of generic Horde of Orc barbarians, wildly swinging axes and falchions willynilly in a blind rage, try a complex high steppes, nomadic equestrian society.

Instead of "Viking monster horde" go "Mongol monster horde". Horses (or equivalent), light/medium armors, lances, bows, and scimitars. Maybe make the garbs Middle Eastern flaired, for a Bedouin feel instead (orcs and hobbs are Bedouin inspired in my own campaign setting).

A fun thing to look up would be the Sha'ahoul from Siege of Avalon (obsure old dungeon crawler RPG). The Ahoul are orcs and the Shaman are human and together they have a complex equestrian society with Orc warriors, human casters (druidy spellcasters), and half-orc craftsman.

Oh, and they believe that farming, mining and "civilization" in general are an affront to their nature goddess, thus agrarian societies must be violently purged for their heresy (its why they're the bad guys in Siege)! Nomad or die!

Basically you get the horde feel, but slightly novel with a solution to the Gruumsh issue. Specially given the improbability that any of them actually played Siege.

Eh, this approach gets into the "when do orcs stop being orcs" problem. "Noble savage with proud and ancient traditions" is what you have human barbarians for. Orcs are there for being monsters.
I myself would go into making the orc hordes seem unstoppable. Make them just a little better at tactics—so they don't blindly rush into ambushes or against fortifications 100% of the time—and emphasize their prodigious rate of reproduction. Have generals remark about how the human (or elven or dwarven) forces have suffered significant attrition, but the orcs seem to have replaced almost all of their losses just fine. Start bringing in moral questions like "would targeting the orcish women to lower their reinforcement rate be an acceptable strategy?" Meanwhile, the orcs press up against all the safe refuges the players used in the early parts of the campaign. The wizard finds he no longer has a good place to scribe scrolls or copy spells, because they can't be assured of safety in a civilized place for more than a day or so. The party has to try to coordinate a resistance, leading armies in action after action, trying to avoid getting pinned down or losing too many defenders.

[BootStrapTommy]

Eh, this approach gets into the "when do orcs stop being orcs" problem. "Noble savage with proud and ancient traditions" is what you have human barbarians for. Orcs are there for being monsters.

There's nothing noble about the Sha'ahoul. The whole "religiously wish to destroy everything your entire civilization is built on and slaughter your people for the sin that they dared be different and attempt to create the novel and unnatural while eking out more than a minimal existence from the natural order" pretty solidly puts the Sha'ahoul in the realm of "traditional monsters". "Threats to society" usually are. And genocidal maniacs have a tendency to lean that way. Even the human ones. Having something more than a primitive society does not rob them of the quality of being definitively Evil from the PCs' perspective.

Interestingly enough, the backstory of Siege of Avalon reads an awful lot like the very scenerio you suggested. A quickly advancing, seemingly unstoppable threat advancing to where nowhere seems safe and all attempts at defense feel ultimately futile.

Until, of course, they get to Avalon, the Fortress of Kings. And Taberland's boy King wins his civil war and marches with relief forces on Avalon (classic "holdout until dawn" scenario).

[Flickerdart]

Orcs are boring because they're mooks in pretty much every work that includes them. They tend to be weak both individually (with poor equipment, and low levels) and as a society (with no industry, little in the way of meaningful strongholds or organized armies). In order to avoid the "not-orc orcs" issue, I would only change one side of the equation.

Option 1: Orcs are just as weak as any other race's typical member - but also just as organized, perhaps even more so. Orc society is much more militarized than others, due to any number of reasons, not just in terms of a large standing army for their population but also high-quality weapons, powerful magic, and so forth. I'm liking the steppe nomad parallels - make the orcs the Huns or Mongols. They care nothing for capturing nobles and holding them for ransom, or seizing castles for their petty lords. The orcs ride for blood and glory, and leave behind only hoofprints in ashes.

Option 2: Orc society is loosely organized and on the fringes of the important, civilized world. But they reject civilization intentionally, because living on the fringes has made them powerful. In your typical "ruins of an ancient civilization scattered in the savage wilds" scenario, the orcs are pretty much the only race crazy and skilled enough to explore. As a result, the overwhelming majority of adventurers are orcs or half-orcs. When they attack, it's not a sea of faceless soldiers, but squad after squad of special forces teams that takes out key leaders, sabotages gates, releases demons inside cities, and so on.

[Eisenheim]

consider making the orc horde more like the 'barbarian' hordes that eventually broke the roman empire: an entire society on the move, willing to incorporate most of the people they roll over, looking for a rich and fertile land to settle in. Less mindless destruction, more forcing their way into the heartland of the more civilized races because it's nicer than where the orcs live.

[Balmas]

Eh, this approach gets into the "when do orcs stop being orcs" problem. "Noble savage with proud and ancient traditions" is what you have human barbarians for. Orcs are there for being monsters.

If you'll forgive me saying, I despise this thinking.

"Orcs are there for being monsters." Says who? Yeah, the monster manual says, but we don't have to follow that. The source materials are tools to help our game, not rules that we have to rigidly follow. Why can't orcs be deeply religious, or wandering nomads, or expert pioneers? Hell, maybe the orcs are highly developed and industrialized; they roam far afield, have powerful items, and get weaker if you disrupt their supply lines. Yes, it's a very different idea of Orcs, but that's pretty much exactly what OP is asking for.

Refluff your orcs. I like the idea of them coming as a religious force to wipe out the polluting, unnatural races. But there are other ideas to play with. Maybe they're fleeing their homeland, an inhospitable Fantasy Australia where everything wants to kill you, eat you, make you swell up with poison, tear you apart, not necessarily in that order. Maybe they're highly religious; give them a powerful figure, an avatar of the stars, to direct them in their holy war. Their clergy is massive, and every battle group has at least one cleric to drop a few buffs before they enter battle.

Touching on that, give your orcs tactics. They don't have to be "WAAAAAAAGH" Run into battle against Conan mooks. Maybe there are different squads trained to use different weapons.
-One group is mounted cavalry, or worse, mounted archers.
-There are skirmishers with ranged weapons, who weaken up the party until they start moving in, at which point they withdraw, let the melee beatsticks do their thing, and continue firing into melee.
-Clerics/Adepts buff groups before they go into battle, and the group moves to protect the cleric when the PCs start targeting him. If the cleric falls, the orcs suffer a huge blow to their morale, and maybe they run away.
-Battlemages fly over the battlefield, coordinating the attack, relaying instructions and reports to and from the central leader. Occasionally, they'll fire down a fireball, or stone shape a wall around the PCs, etc.
-Or maybe there isn't a central leader; each squad of orcs is a self-contained unit, guerilla warbands that strike and vanish as needed.
-The Orcs have tamed some kind of beast, and are using it in battle. Think Lord of the Ring Oliphaunts: a massive beast, carrying a big capsule full of archers.

Make each battle feel unique, while also allowing your PCs to learn some common tactics among the group.

[Vercingex]

I am of the opinion that it is important to distinguish the various monstrous humanoids from each other culturally and characteristically. Goblins are cowardly, hobgoblins regimented, gnolls organize in packs, kobolds are trap making nightmares, etc. The traditional Orc is characteristically aggressive, with a penchant for immediate action over planning- they're less stupid and more impatient. I feel it's important to maintain that character, regardless of what other tweaks are made.

I have been thinking of the Orc horde problem, and have a few ideas to share. First, Orcs are cunning, but not great planners. They shouldn't walk into obvious traps, but their strategies should be simplistic- a basic flanking maneuver is probably as much of a plan as their lack of organization allows. Secondly, I would think about whether individual orcs would rather test their strength against a strong foe, or just go for the easy slaughter. I can easily imagining most of the orcs bee lining past the fighter to slay the wizard. That should keep the PCs on their toes. This principle can also apply to large groups of orcs, as they bypass fortifications and blocking positions to slaughter helpless civilians. This can even work in the orcs favour, as it forces the army opposing the horde to extend itself to protect civilians, putting it at risk of defeat by the horde.

Another approach is to think of horde logistics. Considering how fast orcs grow and breed, and how active they are, the food needs of a horde are enormous. The orcs should constantly be looking for sources of food. They probably supplement their looting and foraging by keeping some livestock. Thinking about the orcs basic needs helps informs their actions.

Finally, a fun twist on Orc women might be to base them on the women of Germanic tribes as described in several accounts from the Roman republic. These women would gather behind their men on a battlefield, screaming encouragement. Reportedly, they would sometimes murder any man who fled from the battlefield with whatever was at hand. I can easily imagine Orc women doing this. Orcs are patriarchal, and obsessed with strength. The Orc women buy into this system, partly because they have little choice, and partly because they too believe in strength as a virtue. Any male Orc showing weakness in front of his female(s) better watch out.

[LudicSavant]

Change up the religion. Because frankly, Gruumsh is boring. He was always boring

I did this in a pretty big way in one of my games, where I completely overhauled the "classic" pantheon to be something completely different.

In it, Corellon Larethian, Moradin, and Gruumsh were the three kings of the gods (Sort of like the big three brothers in Greek mythology: Hades, Zeus, and Poseidon). Each represented a major force of nature as well as one of the major aspects of civilization. Each was a master of war and worshiped by many races (e.g. Moradin isn't just a dwarf god, Corellon isn't just an elf god, etc).

They looked like this:

Spoiler: Moradin

Show

Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP9I8ZUwKpc

Spoiler: Corellon

Show

Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_otf-mQyL0

Spoiler: Gruumsh

Show

Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuZmGQWAOu4
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWXazVhlyxQ

Moradin forged the earth, Corellon sowed it with seeds and blood, and Gruumsh wrapped it in sky.

Moradin represents labor and the skilled middle class. Corellon represents nobility, "high culture," and an empowered upper class. Gruumsh represents the underclass as well as non-stratified societies.

Their natural aspects tied in with this as well. The earth only gives up its bounties with hard physical labor. Life gives up its services with the application of social acumen and leverage. The sky provides a roof of stars over every head, the wind blows where it will, and the rain blesses the land of its own accord.

Originally, they all got along and worked together to create the world. Eventually, their relationships soured. Gruumsh came to believe that the social stratification of "civilized" cultures were a corruption of true society, and that the regimes of Corellon and Moradin were unnecessary (and, indeed, an impediment) for mortal society to truly flourish. He rebelled (with the help of Lolth, who respected his sense of honor), and as a result their followers were defeated and banished to awful badlands where nobody else wanted to live. Places where they had to struggle in harsh conditions to survive.

Spoiler

Show

Corellon Larethian looks a lot less foppish when he takes the gloves off.

Gruumsh never sleeps. He is He Who Never Sleeps because he is filled with a fury borne of a cause which will not permit him rest. A dream which many believe is truly just even as many others believe it is mad or vile: The complete downfall of stratified societies and the rise of a new kind of culture, a dream of a non-stratified society that can be maintained even for very large, unified nations. A world beyond artificial scarcity or cronyism. That's the heaven a savage war-priest of Gruumsh fights for.

This actually contributes even more to the demonization and ostracization of Gruumsh-worshipping orcs from many other races and cultures, because of the fear that that sort of rhetoric could incite peasant revolts and the like.

- Change up their abilities. Have orcs from one clan use different weapons/fighting styles/even classes. Make the clan differences actually matter in the context of gameplay (I see this scout has blue ink tattoos on his forehead and is carrying a light spear, which identify him as clan X. I now know some useful things about the tactics I'm about to face with this particular scout/his friends, when he brings friends).

A major point worth emphasizing even more: Don't make your orcs monolithic! Every tribe should have its own cultural spin, its own specializations, its own flair, its own roles. As soon as you establish (by showing, not telling) that players can't use a general vague stereotype to judge what they're dealing with, things become a good deal more interesting... and encourages players to actually investigate your world instead of just assuming things about it.

Also, giving your monsters clever and genuinely threatening tactics will immediately make them interesting to your players as well. Thus, adding some details besides "they cry WAAAGH and charge" is definitely a good idea.

[NRSASD]

Love the idea of different tribes meaning having different stats. There's a lot of potential there, especially when you start deploying the small fringe tribes that the rank and file orcs have campfire horror stories about but the PCs have never seen before. Personally, I'd rather stay away from the cybernetic implants, but blood magic, lycanthropic beserkers, sorcerers, assassins, and psionicists are all fair game.

In my setting, the orcs (and goblinoids in general) are effectively the stereotypical neanderthals. They share a common ancestor with humans, and evolved alongside one another. The humans got organized faster, and with the help of the Elves, pushed the goblinoids into the barren moors. They destroyed the Orcs' young and rising nation and formed several kingdoms of their own over the ruins of the old. While this is ancient history for the humans, the goblinoids neither forgot nor forgave them; keeping the fires of hatred burning bright with an extensive oral tradition of the glories and fall of Orthalos. Thus the orcs aren't any more savage than the humans, just less advanced and driven by the need to repay the humans for obliterating their nation and forcing them into the wastes.

Recently, the goblinoids have been quiet along the border while the humans fight a civil war because they're mustering the largest horde on record surreptitiously. This horde isn't out to sack and raid, but to conquer and exterminate those who purged them from their homelands long ago. Blood calls for blood as they say, and the orcs intend to wash away their debt with a veritable ocean.

[NNescio]

A tribe of Orc Magi among the hordes.

[It Sat Rap]

Give the orcs a reason to attack the humans instead of just "We kill because we are Orcs, huuuurrrr!"

Maybe the tribal chief is possesed by a demon, maybe they got expelled from their homeland by another thread, maybe a drought forced them to leave their homeland and they look for new place to stay. Don't make them stupid evil, make their actions understandable. By this way the players have more options to solve the problem. For example: They could offer their help to the orcs to conquer their homeland back, if the orcs in return won't attack the humans or other races any longer. The players still have the option to fight the orcs, of course.

[JellyPooga]

Don't forget that in 5ed, Orcs are fast. That extra 30ft a turn from Aggressive means they'll be on you before you know it. That makes rallying a defence against Orc raiders a tricky thing; hard to get people organised when there's Orcs all over your position.

Perhaps including this into their culture could be a thing. At a dead sprint, they can't quite keep pace with a horse (90ft vs. 120ft using the Dash action), but with a little assistance (e.g. from Longstrider or the Mobile Feat), they can bump that up (with both, they can sprint 150ft/round...that's approaching Olympic 100m-Sprint fast, except they can do it in armour). Maybe have cavalry seen as somewhat "unmanly" or "dishonourable"; if you fall behind, stay behind, sort of thing.

Being that fast would, I think, encourage guerrilla tactics; lightning raids, hit-and-run. Small, fast-moving bands rather than massed hordes. Have the "Horde" actually be a series of independent cells spread over a huge area; an infestation that you can't eradicate in one fell swoop. Every time you take out a cell, another one pops up a week later.

Have it be something of a mystery to the PC's where all these Orcs keep coming from;
-- Is there a secret underground city of Orcs that reinforces the surface raiders?
-- Are they coming in from another Plane?
--Is there some Orc Shaman with a magical resurrection/healing device (See the Tuatha DeDanaan myths for one such example).
-- Do Orcs just procreate at an extraordinary rate?

Just some thoughts.

[Nifft]

IMHO to make Orcs something interesting, they need an interesting origin and ecology.

If they're monsters, then NOT just normal humanoid breeding with biology and genetics. Being biological is fine if you're going to treat them AS PEOPLE, but if they're primarily monsters, then they ought to have some kind of monstrous origin.

For example:

Khullkhanska, the Rage Dragon, still cuts a burning swath across the plains of the North. Wherever her rage takes her, some newly spawned (and thus weak-minded) nature spirits are caught up in her overwhelming passion, and transform into purely physical beings which manifest the echos of her hate. Sometimes even immature humans are caught up in her rage as they sleep, and partially transformed (into half-orcs).

Those former-spirits who drink deeply of mortal blood, and grow mighty in battle, may grow physically and become ogres or ogre-magi.


There. Now you've got some guilt-free orc stabbing, no orc babies or women to cause moral issues later, and you've got a high-level goal ("stop the orcs at their origin by dealing with the Rage Dragon").

[Cikomyr]

Give them Bards with every unit for attack and damage bonuses. Also have Orc Druids helping them out (theres a reason an Orc Horde can survive in bad environment), and quite a number of Rangers.

You can turn them into a genuine threat if you make them a real culture instead of generic Warrior bullseyes.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to have a number of Orc Warlocks as well.

[noob]

The thread creator said he wanted the orcs to be the main plot and not say "there is a powerful creature behind" he wants the orc society to be the problem.
he wants the orc empire as the final opponent not a magical kitten completely unrelated to orcs except that he magically spawn some of them.
Also like I said giving bows and arrows to all the orcs helps since there is no action cost to drop your bow and draw out your contact weapon.

[LudicSavant]

Eh, this approach gets into the "when do orcs stop being orcs" problem. "Noble savage with proud and ancient traditions" is what you have human barbarians for. Orcs are there for being monsters.

The Warcraft video game franchise seems to have built its entire core plot around disagreeing with this premise. It seems to have done more than just alright for itself. In fact, its orcs may well be more iconic in popular culture than Tolkien's now.

So, you know, there's that.

Actually...

- Terry Pratchett (orcs are victims of the propaganda of the victors, Nutt is a pretty nice guy)
- Blake (orcs are a positive figure, the embodiment of rebellion)
- Nichols (orcs are the main characters, the story is told through their perspective)
- Warcraft (Orcs are complex characters, definitely not just monsters)
- The Elder Scrolls (Same thing)
- Earthdawn (Same thing)
- Shadowrun (Same thing)
- Might and Magic (Orcs are created by wizards as weapons to use against demons and later enslaved. They eventually declare themselves free and rebel against their masters)
- Mythology (A kind of dwarf in Alpine folklore that does stuff like warn the noble game of hunters)

Annnd...

- Tolkien (According to TvTropes, "Tolkien's Orcs are of debatable morality; however, while not 'peaceful', they are mostly driven by their fear of Sauron or Morgoth.")

It seems to me like an awful lot of popular fiction disagrees that orcs stop being orcs if they aren't just there for being monsters.

[Tvtyrant]

My solution to this problem was to give the Orcs transformative cults. The Orcs tend to admire strength in any form, and are very prone to fragment and divide into smaller lodges and tribes based on disagreements over leadership and doctrine.

The result of this is the Orcs of the wilds tend to accept being led by and changed into monsters very frequently. Werewolf Orcs, vampire Orcs, Wight Orcs, mineral Orcs, etc.

So a tribe of Orcs might have a vampire leading it and several of the strongest members made into vampires while the rest of the tribe remains Orcs and serves them. One day the cost of keeping the vampires fed becomes too great for some of the Orcs, and they splinter off and join a band of werebears who will protect them from their former leader in return for them raising sheep. The strongest Orcs now become werebears and perpetuate the tribe until the leader of the vampires defeats the leader of the werebears, and instead of killing her demands that she assist on an attack into human lands. The werebear leader accepts and the warriors are organized for an invasion.

[Hawkstar]

You could always make them silly!

First off - prohibit or highly restrict the Orcish language - there should be no direct communication at all. Any attempt at indirect communication should be interpretted or depicted as hostile.

Start with simple orcs in an appropriately threatening but not darkly overwhelming horde, but have a few encounters be with small bands of orcs working alongside the archer-orc Roc-eye, assassin orc Black Widorc, and shield-using Captain Orcmerica* (But don't give away their names). Those three should be leading covorct/special orcperations missions deep within The Threatened Kingdom, and should have engaging, unique mechanics. Roc-eye, for example, uses his bow to try to stay out of range, and has trick arrows to control the battlefield. Black Widorc is a lurker who uses the chaos her allies provide to slip in and out of the fight, forcing the players to balance their attention between keeping track of her and handling the other orcs in the encounter. Captain Orcmerica, in contrast to those, does his best to keep the party's attention, gets 3 reactions per round, has the benefits of the Sentinel Feat, and his hits (Even from his thrown ricochet shield) impose disadvantage on the first attack anyone makes against anyone that's not him (But he loses significant AC any round he throws his shield)

The Incredible Horc (an Orc that grows in size and strength the angrier or more challenged he is, to a maximum Strength of 32 at Colossal size. That's right - his Strength Modifier goes to 11), and the storm-slinging bruiser, the Mighty Thorc also need to be introduced as interesting antagonists and leaders of the Orc horde. If you're good, you can almost hide what you're doing here from the players.

Eventually, though, you turn on the silly. Have Tony Storck and a bunch of Pro Skatorcs attack the party in a city, riding their Skateswords (Greatswords that work like Skateboards, and give dynamic and unique mechanics to the fight). It should be a two-part battle - first mostly targeting the party in a large, busy plaza, then after they've lost a quarter or half their number, they should take off down the streets in a bloody high-speed chase targetting civilians and guards (The party needs to take a cart or two to keep up). Make sure Tony Storck dies to a wound to the heart, so he can later come back as the Green+Red-armored, flying, laser-shooting Invincible Orichalcum Orc.

After the Pro Skatorc encounter, you can introduce Helorcopter infantry - Orcs that use double-axes, and fly by spinning them over their heads. The spinning, flying axe technology is from the newly-formed Orc Enterprises, giving Orcs a technorclogical edge over The Kingdom, run by the revived Tony Storck. Then, introduce Helorcopters... foreshadowing the Final Battle with ALL the Orcvengers aboard the Orcvenger's Helorcarrier.

*When Captain Orcmerica throws his his mighty shield all who oppose his shield must yield! When the time is right and the battle's alight The red, green and white will carry the fight When Captain Orcmerica throws his his mighty shield!

[noob]

My solution to this problem was to give the Orcs transformative cults. The Orcs tend to admire strength in any form, and are very prone to fragment and divide into smaller lodges and tribes based on disagreements over leadership and doctrine.

The result of this is the Orcs of the wilds tend to accept being led by and changed into monsters very frequently. Werewolf Orcs, vampire Orcs, Wight Orcs, mineral Orcs, etc.

So a tribe of Orcs might have a vampire leading it and several of the strongest members made into vampires while the rest of the tribe remains Orcs and serves them. One day the cost of keeping the vampires fed becomes too great for some of the Orcs, and they splinter off and join a band of werebears who will protect them from their former leader in return for them raising sheep. The strongest Orcs now become werebears and perpetuate the tribe until the leader of the vampires defeats the leader of the werebears, and instead of killing her demands that she assist on an attack into human lands. The werebear leader accepts and the warriors are organized for an invasion.

This prevents the orcs from being the ultimate villains they are instead under the orders of another kind of being.
the person who first posted does not wants the orcs to be manipulated by other beings(in addition it is not even sightly original as it happens very often)

"The problem is my players are a bit on the genre-savvy side and they've seen quite a lot of orc hordes in their adventuring careers. I really want to make the storyline interesting in itself and not the 'oh great another orc plot to tide us over until we level up enough fight the REAL antagonists of the campaign'. "

So he does not wants the orcs to be entities who are under the control of bigger antagonists he wants them to be the true antagonists.

[Cikomyr]

You could always go to the inevitable conclusion of Lord of the Ring's industrialized orcs:

They have guns. They have engines. They are more advanced than the players.

The orcs are no longer a savage horde, but a Colonialist Expedition. They come to plunder, conquer and convert you savages.

[AceOfFools]

One way you could make a campaign against an orcish horde interesting (and this works on top of all other suggestions) is to treat them as a catalyst for other adventure.

For example, with the bulk of a nations army on the front, there is room for whoever left behind at home to spring up as a petty tyrant, maybe unofficially leave the kingdom. Bandits and other monsters beaten back by regular patrols start preying on the un-or under protected homestead.

Half the adventure is fighting back the horde, half getting or keeping the non-orc nations from killing each other.

This can form a strong narrative if paired with the diverse clans method mentioned above.

Maybe the horde is simply to big or to well organized or to strong for the human armies to ever defeat by force of arms alone. The only way to defeat them is to cause them to turn on themselves. The adventure becomes a shell game of convincing clan X that clan Y stole a supply train heading for them, when really it was offered as a bride clan Z to lure their rivals among clan S into a trap.

The main thing, though, is going to be putting a lot of work in to make the orcs your own. Building (slightly perhaps) different stat blocks for different tribes or even troop types, officers and commanders. Without making a lot of new stat blocks you are much limited in how interesting a horde could be.

[Tvtyrant]

This prevents the orcs from being the ultimate villains they are instead under the orders of another kind of being.
the person who first posted does not wants the orcs to be manipulated by other beings(in addition it is not even sightly original as it happens very often)
So he does not wants the orcs to be entities who are under the control of bigger antagonists he wants them to be the true antagonists.

I think you misunderstand me. If an Orc vampire running an Orc tribe is an outsider, or an Orc werebear, or an Orc half-fiend, then basically almost all human villains are actually inhuman. Orcs live in a world where humanoids are naturally too weak to live, having them modify themselves to be stronger easily is a natural explanation of how they survive. If for some reason they need to be just Orcs with no subgroups or special abilities then they need to basically be bigger Kobolds and have hindreds of kids a year to survive.

[Hawkstar]

I think you misunderstand me. If an Orc vampire running an Orc tribe is an outsider, or an Orc werebear, or an Orc half-fiend, then basically almost all human villains are actually inhuman. Orcs live in a world where humanoids are naturally too weak to live, having them modify themselves to be stronger easily is a natural explanation of how they survive. If for some reason they need to be just Orcs with no subgroups or special abilities then they need to basically be bigger Kobolds and have hindreds of kids a year to survive.

I am not aware that my God-killing level 35 Paladin is actually some sort of non-human.

Nonseriously - those 'power-boosting' templates are not worth the ECL adjustments they carry. Those Orcvengers I suggested are almost 100% Orc. Except for the Incredible Horc. He's got some sort of superpower or something.

Another option is to double-down on Gruumsh, and how Orcs carry an existential debt to him. Possibly kill the big guy, and have The Kingdom be responsible for the assassination (Possibly out of the misguided notion that it would free the orcs of his will) of said god, and turning the surviving orcs to an implacable thirst for vengeance against the entire kingdom - Had Gruumsh been slain in battle, well... it's a fair cop. Had he been assassinated by a lone agent, the vengeance would have stopped at his death. But instead, it may have been carried out by a 'hero'... but under the orders and backing of the then-ruler of the kingdom. But the only power that king had, as head of the state, was that given to him from the consent of the millions of governed. The hero was the hand that struck the blow... but it was the king who was the head that guided it... and all the 'innocent civilians' are the blood that powered and fed that head, and the whole body must die for the Orcs to feel avenged (all orcs - even those that had turned from him to explore life differently, are called to avenge his death). The orcs that refuse to avenge their fallen creator (Or seek to revive him) find the privilege he gave them spontaneously revoked. So now you have a conflict that, through divine power, can only end with the entire extermination of one side or the other.

[Nifft]

Nonseriously - those 'power-boosting' templates are not worth the ECL adjustments they carry. Those Orcvengers I suggested are almost 100% Orc. Except for the Incredible Horc. He's got some sort of superpower or something.

He merely has superior orc powers.

Suporc powers, one might even say.

[Hawkstar]

Suporc powers, one might even say.

Dammit... how did I fail to think of that one first?

[Nifft]

Dammit... how did I fail to think of that one first?

Is it because you're a bird-brain?

- - -

Anyway, one last thought: steal the idea behind the Reavers from Firefly / Serenity.

Orcs are former humans who did ... something. They transformed, or were transformed. That means you'll get orcs of all backgrounds and levels, and the thing you need to fix is not the "orc menace", but rather the socio-economic realities which are causing people to choose the Orc lifestyle.



thog not choose ork lyfe, ork lyfe choose thog.

[BootStrapTommy]

Mechanical suggestions:

Simple early game Orc strategies: Use the Eye of Gruumsh and Orog as your base stated Orcs, instead of the basic Orc. Always include an Orc chieftain in a group. Vary their weapons, especially adding ranged and reach weapons. Add shields to chieftains wielding one handed weapons. Make the orcs less reckless, more tactical (flank, use terrain, etc.).

Simple late game: stat out appropriate leveled generic half-orc characters, then add the "Aggressive" trait that every Orc in the MM seems to have. Include healing clerics and druids. A Beast Master ignoring the size limit on animal companions makes a great cavalry archer. Continue varying weapons and tactics. Vary martial classes within any one group of Orcs.