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2007-05-10, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
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- UK
What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Full plate offers 9 (8 from the armour itself, 1 from Dex), and without going outside core that can be increased to 11 by using mithral to increase the Dex bonus. Is there any equivalent material or process that can be applied to the high-Dex armours?
Also, are there any bits of miscellaneous armour other than dastana and chahar-aina?
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2007-05-10, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- Johnson City, TN
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Races of Stone has Mountain Plate (+10 armor, +0 max dex) and Extreme shields (+3) (if you don't want to use a tower).
Of course, making the armor adamantine would give you DR 3/- It's not AC, but still non-magical protection. Mithril would also help you with your dex bonus there too.
I think that's about the best I've got...
~PSLast edited by Penguinsushi; 2007-05-10 at 06:43 PM.
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2007-05-10, 07:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Somwere I shouldn't be...
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
use a shield to get to 10 and they normialy hand out free rings of protection on your first adventrue (at least in 1st and 2nd ed.) so theres 11 right there.
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2007-05-10, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
You can apply mithral to a breastplate or a chain shirt as well, for the same basic effect.
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2007-05-10, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Mithral mechanicus gear and a tower shield is about the best you can do. Mechanicus gear is from the Planar Handbook, and provides +10AC with a max dex bonus of 0 (plus it slows you down more than normal heavy armour, unless of course you're a dwarf).
JaronK
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2007-05-10, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
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2007-05-10, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
They are the nice DM's
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2007-05-10, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Johnson City, TN
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
I'm not sure what the context for Sutremaine's request is, but I don't think it's a low-level/money issue - any character that could afford mithril, mountain plate or any of the other suggestions could easily buy a ring of prot. I think the point is to do the best without magic at all...
...and what Jayabalard (above) said.
~PS"One Penguin To Rule Them All..."
Spoiler"I'm invisible...I'm invisible...I'm baby mice-ing invisible!" ~ Diva De
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2007-05-10, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- UK
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
There are lots of things to increase the max Dex bonuses on the heavier armours, but nothing much that boosts the max potential AC of lighter, non-metal armour. Full plate and padded armour both start at 9 AC, but it's far easier to raise the full plate's potential AC than the padded armour's potential AC. I accept that sooner or later the Dex-monster is going to have to strap on some metal if he really needs the AC, but the later the better.
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2007-05-10, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Well, when playing a rogue with Dex 30, I found I couldn't wear armour or I'd lose AC. I had to settle for bracers of armour!
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2007-05-10, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
dex of 30, who needs a girlfriend if your THAT flexible
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2007-05-10, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- UK
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
O_*
Thank you for that brief but searing mental image. Not that I have a problem with that particular activity, it's just that the question of what to wear is attached to a specific (though theoretic) character.
I'll probably have to get an animated shield to cover the enhancement bonus that's lost if you skip the armour. They're kind of cheesy, but they're so useful and they don't have to fly around like the world's biggest Ioun Stone.
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2007-05-10, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
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- Johnson City, TN
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Oh - I forgot to mention the feat 'Heavy Armor Optimization' from the same book, which raises the armor bonus by 1, and reduced the check penalty by 1. There is also a 'Greater' version of this feat with a higher prereq.
So, a character of sufficient level wearing mithral mountain plate with an extreme shield and greater heavy armor optimization, and the right exotic armor and exotic shield prof's can get +12 armor, +2 dex, +3 shield for AC 27 with no magic. (a tower shield would give you 28 and you could keep a feat, but you have an attack penalty with that one)
~PSLast edited by Penguinsushi; 2007-05-10 at 09:35 PM.
"One Penguin To Rule Them All..."
Spoiler"I'm invisible...I'm invisible...I'm baby mice-ing invisible!" ~ Diva De
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2007-05-10, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Mountain Plate is pretty much strictly worse than Mechanicus Gear.
JaronK
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2007-05-11, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
In my book, "hand[ing] out free [insert magic item here] on your first adventure" is closer to monty haul than it is to nice...
and rings of protection doesn't really help answer the highest AC from non-magic armor question.... I dunno, that seems to hint that this may be for a low magic campaign, at least to me.Last edited by Jayabalard; 2007-05-11 at 11:22 AM.
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2007-05-11, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Johnson City, TN
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
*shrugs* - I wouldn't know, I don't have the Planar Handbook. Gotta work with the sources I have, you know?
Yeah, since they've started putting out a book or two a month, I've had to be more picky about which ones I try to pick up.
Yeah. Even in a high magic campaign, there should be more 'earning' the loot in there than implied by the 'handing out free...' statement. ...But then, I've been told I can be stingy with the treasure...
~PSLast edited by Penguinsushi; 2007-05-11 at 11:27 AM.
"One Penguin To Rule Them All..."
Spoiler"I'm invisible...I'm invisible...I'm baby mice-ing invisible!" ~ Diva De
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2007-05-11, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Well lets see...
Start with 10
level 5 fighter
gnome, small creature +1 size bonus
Dexterity 12, +1 dexterity bonus
Full Plate +8 Armour Bonus
Tower Shield +4 Shield bonus
Gnome vs. Giant +4 dodge bonus
Combat Expertise w/ +5 BAB, = +5 dodge bonus (note that this could be unlimited with Improved Combat Expertise)
Dodge feat +1 dodge bonus vs 1 opponent
That's 34 AC vs a specific giant, while taking -7 to your attack (-5 from combat expertise, -2 from the shield). You may also want to spike your armour just in case someone decides grappling is better.
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2007-05-11, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
There was another thread around somewhere, some of the posters were able to fiddle it so a level 20 duellist gnome could get 60+ AC from a variety of actions. The build involved a Monk's Belt, Defending weapons and included dangling off of his riding dog's saddle if I'm remembering correctly. And all of it was Core.
Last edited by Telonius; 2007-05-11 at 12:08 PM.
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2007-05-11, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
I can get a Knight up to above AC 60 with core magic items only.
10 base
+13 full plate +5
+1 dex
+1 dodge
+10 Large Shield +5 (with the Knight's bonus to shield use at lvl 20)
+5 Amulet of Natural Armour
+5 Ring of Protection
+20 Improved Combat Expertise
... I guess I could make him small for an extra +1.
That's an AC of 66. I'm sure I was able to bump it up to 67, can't remember what it was though.
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2007-05-11, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Fairfield, CA
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
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2007-05-11, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Yorkton, SK, Canada
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
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2007-05-11, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Fight Defensively for another +2 (+3 if you put cross-class ranks into tumble until you had 5 ranks), total defense for +4 (+6 if you put cross-class ranks into tumble until you had 5 ranks).
Total AC vs giants: 38/39 AC while 'defensively' fighting (depending on tumble) -11 to your attack, 40/41 AC during a total defense.
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2007-05-11, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
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- Wandering in Harrekh
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Gnome Monk 10/Duellist 10
Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense.
Assume Dex, Int, and Wis 16.
5 ranks in Tumble
Monk wields 2 kamas.
Base AC 10
+1 Size
+2AC (Monk)
Wis +3AC
Canny Defense: Int +3AC
Dex +3AC
Dodge +1
Combat Expertise +5 AC
Fight Defensively +5AC (+2AC +1AC Tumble +2 Two-weapon defense)
Elaborate Parry +10AC
vs Giant +4AC
Total: 47AC, no armor and no magic items at all. 43AC versus non-giants.Last edited by Telonius; 2007-05-11 at 04:02 PM.
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2007-05-11, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Brazil
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Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Mountain Plate from Races of Stone is bad, because it reduces your speed to 15 feet if your base speed is 30, and to 10 if your base speed is 20! Plus, you can't run or charge. It's only good if you are an expert in ranged attacks.
Ah, you can add Shield Specialization (PHB2), for a +1 to your shield. With that, you can get feats like Shield Ward(also PHB2), to add your shield bonus against touch attacks.
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2007-05-11, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
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- California
- Gender
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2007-05-11, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
- Location
- Orlando, FL
- Gender
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2007-05-11, 01:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Johnson City, TN
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
"One Penguin To Rule Them All..."
Spoiler"I'm invisible...I'm invisible...I'm baby mice-ing invisible!" ~ Diva De
The Boot. Fear it.
Thanks to Trog for OotK icon
Also, thanks to El J, Kubb Ambassador
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2007-05-11, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- West Coast
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
To those posting Tumbling bonuses to a character in Full Plate. Beware of the exhausted DM that finally says enough. I would rule that if the armor has a signifigant Check penalty, no matter how high your tumble skill is it impedes.
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2007-05-11, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- New Zealand
- Gender
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
Synergy bonuses don't count bonuses or penalties to your skill, only your ranks in the skill. So the Armor check penalty of -4 to -6 (depending on your Full Plate being normal, MW or Mithral) doesn't affect the Tumble bonus for fighting defensively/total defense.
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2007-05-11, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- UK
Re: What's the highest AC you can get from non-magical armour?
I would give up and play a full caster. Everyone's too busy chiding the non-casters to notice what wizards do to the rules of reality.
Anyway, armour works as well in a high-magic campaign as a low-magic one. Magical enhancements don't make your mundane protections go away.