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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Will commence with Judging tonight. Kind of hoping for a Master Transmogrifist somewhere along the lines.

    Before everyone bites my head off about it being a Caster, it is only a 6/10 and empowers self buff spells, where sans Shenanigans, you are limited to Sub 8th spells for the otherwise incredible capstone.

    For 'optimizing' this turns the MT to be gash, but gives us a nice otherwise high power PrC like Geomancer.

    Sure? Optimize casting and usual high power tricks, but how do you use the Class Features? Vizzini and dings for using known tricks should help here.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Will commence with Judging tonight. Kind of hoping for a Master Transmogrifist somewhere along the lines.

    Before everyone bites my head off about it being a Caster, it is only a 6/10 and empowers self buff spells, where sans Shenanigans, you are limited to Sub 8th spells for the otherwise incredible capstone.

    For 'optimizing' this turns the MT to be gash, but gives us a nice otherwise high power PrC like Geomancer.

    Sure? Optimize casting and usual high power tricks, but how do you use the Class Features? Vizzini and dings for using known tricks should help here.
    It went into vogue somewhere around MMIV or MMV to make racial casting an (Ex) special quality. Since racial casting explicitly stacks with casting from class levels, it's actually trivial to make up the lost casting or even exceed your character level for a number of classes, including Wizard, using only monsters whose racial casting is explicitly (Ex) (making the RAW here pretty rock-solid) as a Master Transmogrifist. That probably counts among the shenanigans you're talking about, but it is a thing that pretty much every build would be able to do unless we introduced the necessary house rule (which, to be fair, pretty much every table would implement should anyone actually play a Master Transmogrifist). With that house rule in place, it could make for a pretty fun round though. 6/10 castng is pretty reaonable for a SI, even though Master Transmogrifist class features are a lot better than usual (not necessarily a bad thing, as you say, Geomancer made for a good round, even if the power threshold was higher than normal).

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  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    I'm really happy with my build, but I almost wish I hadn't entered, because it would be a lot of fun to judge some of these entries. I'm quite surprised we didn't see any dragonborn mongrelfolk (hard to say no to +6 CON on a class that uses CON for its key trick), any Artificers (sure, they don't get infinite items to drain, but they get a lot more than your average Joe), or any Spellthieves (the idea of absorbing magic as spellfire, then Sneak Attacking with that spellfire to steal more spells is pretty compelling). True to form, I did briefly consider making an evil Truenamer who abused the BoVD sacrifice rules to get Dark Crafting Gold and Dark Crafting XP to make super-cheap items to drain, but I couldn't get out of the "it's very nice, but what does it do?" quicksand. (I briefly considered using Rebuild Item to cheese out how item draining works, but I just didn't think the RAW bore it out; I also thought about using Spell Rebirth to restore drained items, since they're affected "as though with Dispel Magic," but I couldn't get around the fact that Spell Rebirth is an LEM utterance, so it targets creatures, not items.) I also had an idea about using the throwaway line about how charging more than 4◊ your CON in spellfire puts you "in pain" to use yourself as a target for the Liquid Pain spell (then using the Liquid Pain to craft items to drain), but there was just no good way to make it efficient without months and months of downtime, since Liquid Pain really only gives a tiny bit of craftable XP.

    I do foresee a dispute or two. It looks like different builds approached a few key rules with some different understandings of how they work, so I hope that the judges make an equitable ruling on that front. I'll keep my mouth shut until we get some actual judgments, though. I just hope that the judges are very thoughtful about how the rules workóthis class has a real mess of rules for how its abilities work, so I hope that everything is properly taken into consideration.
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    For some reason I can't seem to get the drive to finish tables lately. I was looking at running a Tiefling Incarnate for this run
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    @Zaq: Primary issue with Artificer in combination with the SI is that SI is Forgotten realms and Artificer is Eberron

    ---

    While i'm not all-out against Master Transmorgrifist, my concern with it is that it promotes dumpster diving for abusable monsters, dishes would deliver pretty much the same semi-obscure monsters with the main difference being how knowledable each cook is in running the game as a GM, with it detracting from the idea that you're building the best character for a dish, and instead lead all the cooks on a merry chase for the best monsters, which have little effective difference on the build table since everyone would likely be able to take every monster if they just knew them.

    I'm certainly so out of touch with what monsters are good to polymorph into, as its been ages since i've actually GMed anything substansial, and have never really touched the 'Polymorph game'. While i would certainly be able to build a reasonable dish around it (in terms of which classes/feats/etc supplements nicely), i'm far at sea when it comes to selecting the actual monsters.
    Last edited by Sian; 2015-09-22 at 01:15 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    As for Ex casting, the same could be said for Natural spellcasting of monsters and polymorph. I believe that they were defined as (Ex) to prevent them from being gained by standard polymorph, without recompense to the ways in which people could gain (Ex) abilities. It has been a houserule for so long that I forget it's not an actual rule.

    Unlikely. There are hundreds, if not thousands of monsters available for selecting. As for choosing the "best obscure monsters", that's kind of debateable, considering that the most obscure ones are the ones least likely to be abused due to that reason, while the abuseable ones are hardly obscure and hence subject to Vizzini/well known optimization tricks and suffer a penalty. ASA + Chronotrynn and War Troll are well known for their Dazing Blow and Double Actions, sure. Also, having a backstory and being able to see it through seems to be pretty strong recently in scoring recently, so just choosing your typical ALL THE POWER options doesn't really lead to a favourable thing.

    As for "all monsters" known... erm you get 7 Favored Shapes.

    And as for the "polymorph game", doesn't that make you the perfect candidate for entry or judging? You can do some book diving to learn some extra tricks and cool combinations. After all, Infinite Variety is an ability which is not accessible in any other format in the game. So choosing which of the 7 favoured shapes is appropriate to your build and backstory to get some interesting combinations would be cool.

    After all, why be a MT when all you're doing is turning into a bird with Dual Actions so you can spam out Metamagic'd fireballs. That's not really doing anything with being a Master Transmogrifist, even if that MT does have a few additional attacks.

    There are a LOT of Ex abilities and senses to be picked up out there.

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I'm really happy with my build, but I almost wish I hadn't entered, because it would be a lot of fun to judge some of these entries. I'm quite surprised we didn't see any dragonborn mongrelfolk (hard to say no to +6 CON on a class that uses CON for its key trick)
    Dragonborn Mongrelfolk have penalties to Dex (used for ranged touch attacks) and Cha (determines save DC for Maelstrom of Fire) which was at least something of a deterrent. I was surprised that we didn't see any Dragonborn though. Closest we got was it's evil twin, Deformity (Obese).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    As for Ex casting, the same could be said for Natural spellcasting of monsters and polymorph. I believe that they were defined as (Ex) to prevent them from being gained by standard polymorph, without recompense to the ways in which people could gain (Ex) abilities. It has been a houserule for so long that I forget it's not an actual rule.
    It's not nearly so clear-cut with regular polymorph and unlabeled spellcasting, but fair enough.

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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Crucians are also pretty weak (or at least, don't measure up to classic high Con race options), even at ECL 2. Might just be hard to believe that anyone could saddle them with an ECL of 5.
    About the only thing they are good for is Alter Self and natural armor bonus (beating out Troglodytes).

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Wow, my full inbox really screwed things up this round. Here's a sixth entry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarotto
    Kakarotto the Saiyan Whelp

    Spriggan 5+2 / Monk 1 / Spellfire channeler 3 / legacy champion 9 (Spellfire channeler +7)

    Whenever I heard about Spellfire the first time with Shandrill Shessair, it screamed Dragon Ball anime to me - as we got the full DB then DBZ on TV in the 80s in France. So here I present Kakarotto the Saiyan Whelp ;-) Main weakness on this build is that Saiyan donít create magic items to be consumed to fuel Spellfire... In the spirit of the manga, I would say that he spend all his wealth to eat enormous meals, including magical potions in it for spice. Second weakness is that the build is not focused on martial arts, in favor for innate Saiyan powers, so here be ready to play a whelp up to level 20 !

    Spoiler: The Build
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    ECL Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Spriggan 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 Climb 4, Concentration 2, Disable Device 0, Hide 4, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 4, Move Silently 4, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 4, Spellcraft 2 Spellfire wielder +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis, low light vision, DR 5/ cold iron
    2nd Spriggan 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 Balance 1, Climb 5, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 5, Spellcraft 2 +2 Dex, sneak attack +1d6
    3rd Spriggan 3 +1 +1 +3 +3 Balance 2, Climb 5, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 3, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 5, Spellcraft 2 Weapon Finesse produce flame
    4th Spriggan 3+1 +1 +1 +3 +3 Balance 2, Climb 5, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 3, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 5, Spellcraft 2 +2 Dex, sneak attack +2d6
    5th Spriggan 4+1 +2 +1 +4 +4 Balance 4, Climb 5, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 5, Spellcraft 2 Shatter
    6th Spriggan 5+1 +2 +1 +4 +4 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 2 +2 Dex, sneak attack +3d6
    7th Spriggan 5+2 +2 +1 +4 +4 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 2, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 2 +2 Dex, scare, size change
    8th Monk 1 +2 +3 +5 +5 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 2 Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Endurance AC bonus, flurry of blows, unarmed strike
    9th Spellfire channeler 1 +2 +5 +5 +7 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 2, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 2 Drain charged item, increased storage 2
    10th Spellfire channeler 2 +3 +6 +5 +8 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 4, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 2 Improved healing
    11th Spellfire channeler 3 +3 +6 +6 +8 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 4 Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt) Weapon Focus (spellfire), increased storage 3
    12th legacy champion 1 (dragon ball) +3 +6 +6 +10 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 6 Reduced ritual cost (lesser), bond of lore
    13th legacy champion 2 (Spellfire channeler 4) +4 +6 +6 +11 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 6 Replace legacy ability (least), Rapid blast 2
    14th legacy champion 3 (Spellfire channeler 5) +5 +7 +7 +11 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 8, Spellcraft 5, Spot 6, Tumble 6 Martial Stance(island of blades) Extra legacy ability use (least), Drain permanent item, increased storage 4
    15th legacy champion 4 (Spellfire channeler 6) +6/+1 +7 +7 +12 Balance 5, Climb 8, Concentration 8, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 6, Tumble 10 Channel Legacy Flight
    16th legacy champion 5 (Spellfire channeler 7) +6/+1 +7 +7 +12 Balance 10, Climb 8, Concentration 9, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 6, Tumble 10 Replace legacy ability (lesser), Deflect Arrows with Spellfire, increased storage 5
    17th legacy champion 6 (Spellfire channeler 8) +7/+2 +8 +8 +13 Balance 10, Climb 10, Concentration 10, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 9, Tumble 10 Shadow Blade (15HD) Extra legacy ability use (lesser), Rapid blast 3
    18th legacy champion 7 +8/+3 +8 +8 +13 Balance 10, Climb 10, Concentration 10, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 10, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 10, Tumble 10 Reduced ritual cost (greater)
    19th legacy champion 8 (Spellfire channeler 9) +9/+4 +8 +8 +14 Balance 10, Climb 10, Concentration 10, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 10, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 10, Tumble 16 Quicken Legacy Crown of fire
    20th legacy champion 9 (Spellfire channeler 10) +9/+4 +9 +9 +14 Balance 10, Climb 10, Concentration 12, Disable Device 1, Hide 5, Jump 10, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (history) 5, Listen 10, Move Silently 5, Open Lock 0, Sleight of Hand 10, Spellcraft 5, Spot 10, Tumble 20 Steadfast Determination Extra legacy ability use (greater), Maelstrom of fire


    Spoiler: Level 1, a mighty toddler
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    Spriggan covers the great agility and natural martial prowess, only missing part would be the monkeyís tail. I had to create a savage progression (Savage Species style) for Spriggan though, as the 5 hit dices and +2 level adjustment are a big step. Only trouble would be the update to 3.5 : fey creatures in Fiend Folio should gain damage reduction / cold iron , so I set it up at 5 as Goku is robust at the very beginning - as he endured a big fall but survived as a toddler... Here you have a 3 years old ready for adventure - with racial adjustment +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Wis. Thereís no official rules to treat toddlers, but saiyan may be a strange bunch anyway, as all sprites. As for equipment, you can use spiked gauntlets to have him attack with his fists as he is no martial artist yet.
    Str 10, Dex 16+2, Con 16+2, Int 14, Wis 8-2, Cha 12


    Spoiler: Level 7, Book one
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    I also chose Spriggan as this is the only small race able to grow to large size - as Goku transform into a giant ape unwittingly by the end of the first book. Thereís only some spriggan levels covered and a low BAB worse than a 7th level rogue, but the full +10 Dex racial bonus by itself and spell-like abilities help - and Spellfire also. Goku is 12 years old in the first book, and his only equipment would be his magic staff.
    Small form : Str 10, Dex 17+10, Con 16+2, Int 14, Wis 8-2, Cha 12
    Enlarged Form : Str 10+8, Dex 17+6, Con 16+8


    Spoiler: Level 10, First Kamehameha
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    After some training with Kame Sennin - he can now fight barehanded or with his staff efficiently - Goku is able to unleash mighty kameha - which is a ranged attack matched with first spellfire channeler levels. He also demonstrates his great appetite by eating the tournamentís prize money all by himself (so he uses drain charged items on potions).
    Small form : Str 10, Dex 18+10, Con 16+2, Int 14, Wis 8-2, Cha 12
    Enlarged Form : Str 10+8, Dex 18+6, Con 16+8


    Spoiler: Level 15, against Piccolo Jr
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    I used Legacy champion to improve a little bit hit points, skills and BAB, as Spellfire channeler class is very much like wizard class for these. This way we remain between rogue class and monk class, but with worse BAB - he must use Spellfire to make the difference. I consider he is the champion of the 4th Dragon ball, but you can change for the staff or cloud, or even some sort of monkeyís tail. Against Piccolo Jr, Goku was able to fly for the first time - and he was close to adult size. So here it would be a younger version able to fly, like Gohan or Trunks - itís why I call him Kakarotto and not Goku, as in this build he remains young.
    Small form : Str 10, Dex 19+10, Con 16+2, Int 14, Wis 8-2, Cha 12
    Enlarged Form : Str 10+8, Dex 19+6, Con 16+8


    Spoiler: Level 20
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    At 19th level, with crown of fire, we finally have a Super Saiyan ! But I feel we can continue right through epic levels anyway for over the top powersÖ And finally checking Tome of Battle classes to add martial maneuvers with the right feeling, and have a fearsome young adult Saiyan.
    Small form : Str 10, Dex 20+10, Con 16+2, Int 14, Wis 8-2, Cha 12
    Enlarged Form : Str 10+8, Dex 20+6, Con 16+8


    Spoiler: Sources
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    Dragon Ball, Fiend Folio, Magic of FaerŻn, Playerís Handbook 2, Savage Species, Tome of Battle, Weapons of Legacy
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  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    wouldn't Duelist be a deliciously tricky dish to cook?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    No. It's a class is based around +numbers. It doesn't actually DO anything worth optimizing. The difference again between a bad prestige class and a bad ingredient.

    This is the former.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    We've already done Tactical Soldier and Blade Bravo, which cover the similar area (and were hellish). I agree with Vaz that its intense limitation and class features that just add numbers (except deflect arrows with middling benefits, and acrobatic charge which doesn't mesh with tactical fighting of duelist) don't lay much of a foundation to build off of.

    I found Sian's summon build interesting, and it made me realize that someone could have built a binder 10/SI 10 and used zceryll's summons' SLAs to charge up.

    Part of me wants to see Iron Mind, but the rest knows it would make me very sad to have to cook it.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2015-09-22 at 05:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    agree, mt would be a poor ingredient since we'd all just be showing off how well we've read the polymorph/shapechange handbook.

    same with duelist. we've had enough of that with similar ingredients.

    iron mind would be absolutely disgusting. I'd love to cook it.

    personally, bloodhound's been on my backburner for a while. it'd be a blast. the perfect mix of "okay. and?" and "I know I should be able to do *something* with this"
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Sounds to me like you're joining my rallying cry for Beast Heart Adept.
    Bleep yes. I want to see this as badly as I wanted to see Spell fire Channeler.

    Side note, you good on judges?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    The thing about Iron Mind is that it's almost entirely passive except for the manifesting. There isn't much to do other than crank up your will save, keep from losing manifester levels, and maybe fool around with armor stuff a bit, unless you can find a way to ensure that your enemies give you something like Zone of Truth so you can meaningfully weaponize Barbed Mind. Just not that interesting.

    Bloodhound strikes me as a little easy, since it mostly synergizes with itself and its expected entry, Crippling Strike is pretty easy to load up on, and even at its worst, Ready and Waiting is an extra standard action or initiative boost.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-09-22 at 07:21 PM.

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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    I just started a new job, and don't have time in the evenings to devote to judging. However, I should have time this weekend to get some builds knocked out. (I originally thought I'd be able to get them all in 1 day, but that was before #5 and 6 appeared.)
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    wouldn't Duelist be a deliciously tricky dish to cook?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    No. It's a class is based around +numbers. It doesn't actually DO anything worth optimizing. The difference again between a bad prestige class and a bad ingredient.

    This is the former.
    I agree with Vaz. Duelist has literally only two abilities that aren't just +numbers (Acrobatic Charge and Deflect Arrows), and one of them is just a normal feat! (Sure, Deflect Arrows has annoying prereqs, but they're less annoying than the prereqs to Duelist.) There's basically nothing that's actually unique about the class, so there's no real room to show off a new trick or an elegant gimmick. Gnome Giant Slayer was bad enough in that regard. A good SI isn't just a lackluster PrC, after allóit's a lackluster PrC that inspires creativity. I feel like Spellfire Channeler is one of the best ingredients we've had in a while, just because while it is a mess of rules and a tangle of not-exactly-harmonious abilities, it does actually do some weird and unique things, and it inspires us to approach the class from a variety of different directions (as evidenced by the eclectic builds that just got revealed).

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    Bleep yes. I want to see this as badly as I wanted to see Spell fire Channeler.

    Side note, you good on judges?
    We're never good on judges. More judges is always better.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Dagnabbit. I was going to enter a "gnome artificer" with broken one's sacrifice feat. Cold feet since last dish, I had a clone of the other chef...I mean I was a changeling, but ...bah...

    All of your charges could be built out of gold, cuz the RAW said charges, not specifically magical charges. and broken one's sacrifice would allow me to jump in front of spells with my readied actions...I think.

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Dagnabbit. I was going to enter a "gnome artificer" with broken one's sacrifice feat. Cold feet since last dish, I had a clone of the other chef...I mean I was a changeling, but ...bah...

    All of your charges could be built out of gold, cuz the RAW said charges, not specifically magical charges. and broken one's sacrifice would allow me to jump in front of spells with my readied actions...I think.
    Your concept was quite close to the one I had in mind, and have used before in actual play with more emphasis on the Gnome Artificer PrC.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Note Sandstorm p145 under Crucian characters LA+2 no racial hit dice.. Text Trumps Table every time.


    Judging

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    Harror total 5.5

    Originality
    -.25 Human
    +1 Ardent
    -.25 Soulknife
    Spellfire Channeler everyone took this to some degree - no deduction
    -1 to many sources

    Power
    -1 I will have to disagree that the power points for Elemental Steward should reflect a 1st level power ( IE CALL ARMOR of the same book lists 2 seperate power points)
    -1 gaining spellfire levels from the elemental stward is limited and this hurts your overall power

    Elegance
    -1 Elemental Steward all have Psi-Like Abilities (ML 2nd): 2/day having the stward toss PLA to be converted to spellfire is cheese in my opinion, but you only get 2 powers 2 times a day, but you get multiple of these and that takes a hit in the cheese department.
    -1 Mind Blade is mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls ,this is not a magical effect thus is not subject to be drained.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    -1 while alot of the SI abilites are used I feel they are not used to the fullest
    -1 the build certainly is not gaining as much out of it as one could, Then I have to look at Why take the SI it certainly would not be better than if you had just stayed in ardent.
    you did take all 10 levels of the SI
    Harror gets at least 2 spellfire levels per PP <not sure how you are gaining 2 levels for 1 power point - no deduction>
    can charge up as many as 16 levels of spellfire at once while this is certainly above average it is not excellent - no deduction



    Dinklesworth total 7.5

    Originality
    -.5 Ice Gnome - it is still a gnome ( subtype does not hold weight )
    +1 Swordsage,Warblade,Martial Rogue,Crusader,Binder
    Spellfire Channeler everyone took this to some degree - no deduction
    Devoted Defender
    Thug Fighter
    -1 to many sources

    Power
    -1 unarmed swordsage ADAPTATION: To create a monklike character with a tremendous array of fantastic moves and strikes, give the swordsage the monkís unarmed strike progression and remove his light armor proficiency - No where in this does it say Monkís Unarmed Strike ability, which includes the Improved Unarmed Strike bonus feat, you get the feat as an Unarmed Swordsage.

    -1 you fail the save and fire off a blast, hitting a random target for [Con score]d6 Spellfire damage (this random target can be you at the cost of an action) and counting on Naberius will heal the Con damage - slow at best 1 point per round thats not going to be very beneficial)

    Elegance
    -1 The Monastery of ZerthíAdílun Location: The Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo: (the Higher Order: economy breaking action cheese: & getting into and out of limbo is a stretch)

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    -1 Vitality Belt ensures that Dinklesworth never fails a DC10 Constitution check (antimagic field fail potential)


    Shmebulok total 9.5

    Originality
    -.5 Stonehunter Gnome - it is still a gnome ( subtype does not hold weight )
    +1 Incarnate,Dragon Shaman
    Spellfire Channeler everyone took this to some degree - no deduction

    Power
    -1 overall power is less than average the extra damage from items, which brings in reliance on items for various effects within the build

    Elegance
    -1 Feather fall abuse cheese

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    -1 I do not see all of the SI abilities used effectivly and the SI is entered late in the build


    Red Stag total 8.5

    Originality
    +.5 Frostblood Half-Orc
    +1 Wilder,Dragonfire Adept,Anarchic Initiate
    Spellfire Channeler everyone took this to some degree - no deduction

    Power
    -1 Flaw and thus no bonus feat < Good Karma >

    Elegance
    -2 Epic Spellfire Wielder < Player's Guide to FaerŻn, p. 135 quite clearly indicates must be level 21 to take an epic feat, the chef should know this and I am imposing a huge penalty for it, as the chef includes its use or reliance within the build

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    +1 entered SI at the earliest level possible
    -.5 for not takeing all 10 levels of the SI
    -.5 Questionable ACF chaining
    -1 Good Karma
    -1 Epic Spellfire Wielder, that means up to 200 stored spellfire levels <Fail to qualify for Epic Level Feat>


    Vander Dirklap 11

    Originality
    -.25 Human
    +1 Ardent
    -.25 Soulknife
    Spellfire Channeler everyone took this to some degree - no deduction

    Power
    nothing overly impressive here

    Elegance
    -.5 tower shield cheese

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    -1 SI take at earliest level possible but only took 7 levels

    Spellfire Adept 6 , 7 I am sure this is probable a typo and ment to be channeler - as I am not able to locate a class under this name I will handwave this with a warning to review your build entry befor submitting


    Kakarotto total score 4
    Where to start with this build, this is as close to a refuse to judge as allowed.

    Originality
    -1 Spriggan savage progression
    -1 monk dip penalty
    spellfiere channeler - everyone took this so no penalty

    Power
    -1 this build falls apart & your power takes a huge hit when you remove legacy champion from the mix.
    -1 your 5 hit dice of racial eating a total 7 ECL for that, it hurt more than it helped in this instance.

    Elegance
    savage progression : well I for one am not a huge fan of savage progression as a DM I would not allow this at my table, I am not going to give a deduction for it here as I deducted it in originality.

    in your sources you list a source Dragon Ball - I have no idea what source this is never heard of it for D&D 3.0/3.5
    you make mention of a goku in your information on level break downs, I did a fair bit of searching the sources you listed, this does not seem to exsist

    -.5 <FTQ> Channel Legacy
    Prerequisites: Least Legacy - no where in the build do you take the required feat

    -.5 <FTQ> Quicken Legacy
    Prerequisites: Least Legacy

    -1 <FTQ>legacy champion
    you do not qualify for legacy champion.
    Entry Requirements
    Skill: Knowledge (history) 5 ranks.
    Feat: Least Legacy
    Special: Must possess a legacy item, character level 10th
    Use of the SI
    -2 just 3 levels of spellfire channeler requirements, concentration 8 ranks, endurance, spellfire wielder

    I am fairly certain that the RHD would only have class skills, climb, disable device, hide, listen, move silently, open lock, slight of hand at the ranks listed and no more & Level Adjustment means you ďcount asĒ being that much higher than your actual HD. The LA gives you absolutely nothing: no HP, no base saves, no skill points, not even a boost to your maximum skill ranks, but you nonetheless are that higher level for the purposes of XP..

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Hmm, I'd strongly disagree that it's a case of text trumps table - I noted as much in my LA +1 and LA +2 races list.

    It wouldn't be unbalanced to allows, but I don't believe the stat block would count as a "table" in this case.

    Of course it would help if WotC hadn't botched so many stat blocks and failed to address so many similar errors in errata.

    Or, you know, had them proofread before printing properly in the first place - all you'd need is a team of a dozen or so 3.X enthusiasts on the books, who'd pretty much do it for free if it meant getting early access to materials.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Hmm, I'd strongly disagree that it's a case of text trumps table - I noted as much in my LA +1 and LA +2 races list.

    It wouldn't be unbalanced to allows, but I don't believe the stat block would count as a "table" in this case.
    It's only a case of text trumps table if they disagree, and they don't. The "as characters" bit doesn't mention the RHD one way or the other.

    Though, as I said, Crucians are pretty crap even at just LA+2, so whatevz.
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2015-09-25 at 04:05 AM.

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  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Thanks for judging, samduke (and so quickly)!
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Would you be interested in having another judge? This just caught my eye, and before I knew it I started scoring the entries. If so, I'll post them momentarily.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Extra judgings are generally good.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Are the two gnome entries penalized because there are two gnomes, or because gnome was expected?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    So, we have a handful of disputes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harror
    Mr. samduke, I have some issues with the judgment you gave Harror. First, I believe that you aren't giving the RAW of Harror's abilities a fair shake. First, pg. 63 of the XPH is crystal clear on how many points a power costs. Elemental Steward is a 1st level power, so it costs 1 PP. Once an elemental steward is summoned, they each have 3 different PLAs, each of which can be used 2 times per day. 3 ◊ 2 = 6, so Harror can absorb 6 spellfire levels from each summoned elemental steward (at a cost of 1 PP per steward). The Magic Mantle makes it very clear that Harror can absorb psionics as easily as magic, unlike her fellow competitors. I don't understand what you mean when you say "but you only get 2 powers 2 times a day, but you get multiple of these and that takes a hit in the cheese department." Are you saying it's cheesy to manifest the same power more than once per day? I really don't understand why you gave the markdown that you did in that sentence.

    I also do not understand the two penalties you gave Harror in UoSI. You said "-1 while alot [sic] of the SI abilites [sic] are used I feel they are not used to the fullest
    -1 the build certainly is not gaining as much out of it as one could, Then I have to look at Why take the SI it certainly would not be better than if you had just stayed in ardent." I went into detail about why every ability in the SI is useful to Harror, and I feel like I also went into detail about what good the SI gives her. Using spellfire is much more efficient for Harror than using PP to blast normally (1 PP = 1d6 when manifesting Energy Ray or Crystal Shard, but 1 PP = 6d6 when turning it into spellfire), and it's also more efficient to use spellfire for healing (1 PP = 2 HP when manifesting Touch of Health, but 1 PP = 6d4 + 6 HP when Harror uses spellfire to heal). Using Spellfire Channeler to store more than her CON in spellfire is important for having enough spellfire to last all encounter. We disagree over whether mind blades are a source of spellfire (though I still don't see how that wouldn't work), but with the build as presented, I get spellfire effectively as an encounter resource instead of as a daily resource or an external resource. Spellfire flight is also more efficient than psionic flight. I specifically chose powers that don't rely on having an especially high ML (Psionic Minor Creation lasts pretty much all day at ML 7, after all, and you don't need to augment it), so I still get lots of use out of being an Ardent even with 10 levels in the SI. Really, Ardent is supporting Spellfire Channeler, rather than Spellfire Channeler supporting Ardent. I did go on about this in great detail in my build write-up, so I'm honestly not sure where the penalty is coming from.

    Furthermore, I feel like you did not apply your judgments equitably across the board. To wit:

    • You seem to have literally copied and pasted Harror's Originality score for Vander: Vander has no levels in Ardent, and yet you gave him +1 for having Ardent levels.
    • Red Stag got a +1 for having "entered SI at the earliest level possible," but Harror entered at the exact same level and was given no bonus, despite actually finishing the SI earlier than Red Stag did.
    • You gave Harror a penalty for charging spellfire by draining mind blades (which I still maintain is totally legal; in what way is a mind blade not a psionic weapon?), but you gave Vander no such penalty, despite Vander relying on that trick far more than Harror does. (Vander has no self-reliant way of charging spellfire other than draining mind blades, which only comes online at level 10, while Harror can self-charge spellfire from as early as level 2 by using her elemental stewards.) If Vander's mind blades are a valid source of spellfire, so are Harror's.
    • You penalize Harror because "gaining spellfire levels from the elemental stward [sic] is limited and this hurts your overall power," but Red Stag is even more limited by PP than Harror is: Red Stag must manifest a Linked Synchronicity, which costs 2 PP (1 PP for the power that Synchronicity is Linked to, and 1 PP for Synchronicity), to absorb one Endure Exposure, gaining 3 spellfire levels for 2 PP. Harror expends 1 PP to gain 6 spellfire levels, yielding an efficiency 4 times greater than Red Stag. (Even if Wild Surge pays the metapsionic cost of the Linked power, which is unclear if that's possible by RAW, that's still 1 PP per 3 spellfire levels, or half as efficient as Harror.) Why does Harror get penalized for having "limited" ability to self-charge spellfire while Red Stag does not?
    • Harror received a penalty for "to [sic] many sources." Harror references six books that aren't Core or Magic of Faerun (which of course is necessary for the SI), including The Mind's Eye. Red Stag used at least ten books outside Core/Magic of Faerun (eleven if you include Unearthed Arcana for the flaw), including The Mind's Eye, and Red Stag received no similar penalty. How is it fair to penalize Harror's six sources without penalizing Red Stag's ten?


    In sum, I request that you reevaluate your ruling based on what I have said here. I do not feel like you applied your rulings equitably, and I do not feel like you considered all of the build elements that were presented in the original write-up. I appreciate you volunteering to judge, but I nevertheless request that you consider what I have said here and amend some of your rulings accordingly. Thank you for your consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinklesworth
    Quote Originally Posted by samduke View Post
    Power
    -1 unarmed swordsage ADAPTATION: To create a monklike character with a tremendous array of fantastic moves and strikes, give the swordsage the monkís unarmed strike progression and remove his light armor proficiency - No where in this does it say Monkís Unarmed Strike ability, which includes the Improved Unarmed Strike bonus feat, you get the feat as an Unarmed Swordsage.

    -1 you fail the save and fire off a blast, hitting a random target for [Con score]d6 Spellfire damage (this random target can be you at the cost of an action) and counting on Naberius will heal the Con damage - slow at best 1 point per round thats not going to be very beneficial)
    As I said in my write-up, the only reason for wanting Improved Unarmed Strike was that I thought it might be necessary to make use of Deflect Arrows, and that the standard Swordsage was better if you didn't need the feat. Since no one else even bothered to try getting Improved Unarmed Strike and they weren't marked down for failing to do so, I can only assume that you feel Improved Unarmed Strike is not necessary to use Deflect Arrows. Therefore, whether I can get it as a bonus feat this way is an entirely moot point.

    I disagree that it's possible to hit yourself with a random spellfire discharge, but I suppose I ought to have checked with the chair to be sure. If she doesn't rule against it being possible to shoot yourself in the foot that way, then that is an issue, I guess.

    The point on Naberius, however, is flat-out wrong. The Fast Ability Healing is there to heal Con damage dealt by Chosen of Evil, which deals 1 Con damage when activated, and can't be used more than once per turn. Dinklesworth never deals more than 1 Con damage to himself per turn, so as Naberius heals 1 point of ability damage per turn, the Con damage is healed as fast as Dinklesworth can inflict it on himself. 1 Con damage dealt/turn - 1 Con damage healed/turn = 0 Con damage/turn.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    -1 Vitality Belt ensures that Dinklesworth never fails a DC10 Constitution check (antimagic field fail potential)
    Spellfire is supernatural, so none of the builds can function inside an AMF anyway. Moreover, it's not clear to me that it's even possible for spellfire to backfire in an AMF, as the rules in MoF say stored spellfire levels are unavailable (if not lost) while inside one. Even if it is possible to have some spellfire backfire inside an AMF, Dinklesworth is actually still less likely to do so than anyone else, as he has higher Con than any other build (even after also losing the +2 Con from Deformity (Obese), which is supernatural) except an enlarged Kakkaroto, and Size Change is also supernatural and hence nullified in an AMF.

    Furthermore, Shmebulok also uses the Vitality Belt for the same reason (at least until items (which also fail inside an AMF) bring his Con high enough to auto-pass the check) and wasn't penalized, so it's unfair to single me out for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vander
    Vander is not an Ardent, and should not receive Originality points for being one.
    As chair, I feel the need to make some rulings myself:

    Harror: I am upholding the ruling on p63 of the XPH: Elemental Steward, as a 1st level power for Ardents, costs 1pp. This is perfectly legal and works as Harror used it.

    Dinklesworth: No, you can't accidentally shoot yourself in the foot with Spellfire.

    Red Stag: Flaws are legal in this contest, and thus it is not acceptable to judge the build as if the feat gained from the flaw was not gained. Further, the place to penalise for flaws is in Elegance, not Power. And while Epic Spellfire Wielder may not be kosher, you've already taken two points off for that under Elegance. Taking a third off in UotSI is overkill - apart from anything else, having an illegal feat doesn't make him worse at using the SI.

    Kakarotto: Why on earth would you deduct for Spriggan in Originality? Were you expecting a Spriggan? That's the most original choice of race among the entries. It may not be Elegant, but it's certainly Original. Dragon Ball is a manga and anime series, not a sourcebook, and Goku is a character from that series which the build was attempting to emulate. I'm not sure if you deducted for that, but if you did, that's not on either.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2015-09-26 at 03:32 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    I will have judgments up by Sunday.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Would you be interested in having another judge? This just caught my eye, and before I knew it I started scoring the entries. If so, I'll post them momentarily.
    Very much yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZamielVanWeber View Post
    I will have judgments up by Sunday.
    Excellent news.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXII

    Well it wasn't a few minutes like I thought, but here's my input.

    Spoiler: Judging Criteria
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    Base 3 in each.

    Originality:
    +1 for a particularly obscure combination (i.e. one I wouldn't have chosen)
    -1 for a combo found on the top 2 google links (minmaxboards/brilliantgameologists)
    +1 for a particularly clever interaction
    -1 for a telegraphed combination

    Power:
    +1 if it can fill a party role (tank, dps, bfc/debuffer, support)
    -1 if it looks like it can fill a role and is very bad at it
    +1 if it has consistent abilities/powers
    -1 for gear reliance

    Elegance:
    -0.5 if it's difficult to follow or figure out what it does
    -1 for choppy power growth so that the build is unacceptably weak for many levels; waiting for it to "come online", as the other judges put it.
    -1 for overreliance on items or other WBL-based options, such as paying NPCs for expensive spells.
    -0.5 per use: May-contain-dairy-products rule variants. LA buyoff, magical locations for feats that aren't in Faerun, and bloodlines count, but the list is not exhaustive.
    -1: dismissing/handwaving fluff
    Up to -2: Rules violations. Nitpicks that don't affect anything? -0.25. Things that negate one of your tricks or require selective rebuilding? -1. Pulling a thread that basically unravels your entire build? -2. Any build that receives -1 or worse in rules violations is eligible for a 0.
    +1: Class progression is particularly natural, such as X 5/SI 10/Y 5.
    +0.5: Does not require multiclassing penalties to be ignored.
    +1: backstory accounts for all base class/PrC choices
    Up to +1: Build seems like it would appear natural, not abominably min-maxed, to a fairly new player.

    Use of Secret Ingredient:
    +1 utilized all the SI abilities
    -1 utilized none
    +0.5 took all levels of the SI
    +0.5 took levels when first able (in part b/c this affects how early you get Flight)
    +0.5 utilized all the requirements of the SI
    -0.5 ignored the requirements after taking them



    Spoiler: Harror
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    Originality: 4.5
    I love the 2 automatic energy generation tricks (+1.5)
    A full-casting class of some type was expected, but psionic not so much. Neither was Soulknife. (0)

    Power: 3.5
    It looks like you can fill the DPS role in the early levels with energy rays. I see you deal with the problem of ardents advancing energy ray by 1d6 per level with high con and the increased storage, good. But that only lasts so long, as you canít consistently make the DC 20 Concentration check for Constitution ◊3 storage until level 13. And then you canít consistently make the DC 25 check for Constitution x4 until level 18, plus at high levels youíll be dealing Ĺ damage to most creatures due to fire resistance/immunity/saves. So then youíre actually doing worse than an equal level ardent just using energy rays.
    Poison is a good way to deal damage at low levels, but again stops being particularly effective around level 13.
    In short, it seems that at high levels you struggle to deal with encounters, and a few mid-level Ardent powers donít fix that (although Anticipatory Strike is very good). On the other hand, the spike healing allows you to shift into more of a support role and keep everyone near full hp during every encounter, if not healing conditions, so thatís good. (+/-0)
    Self-generating energy is great, at least allowing you to be a source of Fast Healing out of combat and providing you with energy pre-combat. It just doesnít do much during combat, should it happen to go long (+0.5)
    "Casters won't expect you to absorb the spells they throw at you" only matters if you can get them to throw spells at you. Anticipatory Strike + readying to absorb a spell is a neat combo, but how are you grabbing their attention without nova-ing?

    Elegance: 3.25
    Buildís usefulness sortof dies out at high levels (-0.25)
    Class progression is somewhat natural, but the soulknife levels in the middle of SW ruin it (+/-0)
    Does not require multiclassing penalties to be ignored. (+0.5)
    Backstory doesnít account for base class/PrC choices (+/-0)
    Build would seem somewhat min-maxed to a fairly new player (+/-0)

    UOSI: 3.75
    Iíd rule Abillity Focus has to be applied to something more specific than ďspellfireĒ, so it wouldnít affect both the energy rays and Maelstrom of Fire, but thatís DM-specific.
    ignored knowledge, but advanced con & spellcraft, ignored Endurance (+/-0)
    Combos:
    readying to absorb a spell + Anticipatory Strike/Crown of Fire
    Drain Charged Item + dorje (eventually)
    Drain Permanent Item + soulknife
    Increased Storage + moderately-high Con
    Improved Healing + ???
    Weapon Focus (Spellfire) + ability focus (Spellfire) + Rapid Blast (sorta) + Maelstrom of Fire (with a lenient DM)
    Flight + ???
    Deflect Arrows + ???
    So you took all levels of the SI (+0.5), and took levels when first able, but delayed flight and other abilities with more Soulknife levels (+0.25). You utilized some but not all of the abilities and prerequisites.
    Total = 15

    Spoiler: Dinklesworth
    Show
    Originality: 4.0
    A disgustingly fat gnome dedicated to suffering? Well. Also you use all the ToB classes + Fighter, which is pretty off the wall (+1).
    The interactions you get are unfortunately not great, as I discuss below (+/-0).

    Power: 2.0
    Youíre unable to generate spellfire energy on your own before level 9, so your ability to depend on that as a source of damage/healing is limited at best. After that it starts cutting into your XP growth, meaning you might well be behind in levels just to use your class abilities.
    The build is quite weak during early levels due to low BAB, and it faces the problem of tanks: why should the enemy pay attention to you? Then you go into Spellfire Channeler and lose those big hit dice you relied on during the early levels.
    Improved Storage 5 requires a will save every round, and using Moment of Perfect Mind every round requires a full-round action (assuming you chose martial study for swordsage), making it untenable once you do anything else (like combat or sleep).
    As I understand it, Chosen of Evil doesnít let you make more energy blasts than you would otherwise, since taking con damage doesnít activate the will save, so I donít understand the point of that interaction. Moreover, my understanding of the rules is that using 1 maximum strength energy blast uses up all your spellfire energy levels, so you canít do it multiple times per combat.
    In short, it looks like you start out a bad tank and go into inconsistent DPS (-1).

    Elegance: 1.5
    It's somewhat difficult to figure out what your build does after going into Spellfire Channeler. Do you want to fight on the front lines, or stay in back?
    The build is pretty weak for many levels and never really seems to come online (-1).
    Class progression is nowhere near natural, and requires ignoring multiclass penalties to work (-0.5)

    UOSI: 4.5
    Endurance doesnít do anything for heavy armor.
    Chosen of Evil applies to exactly 1 energy blast/round, so it doesnít really combo with Rapid Blast.
    Combos:
    Planar Touchstone glimpsing the future + readying spellfire/Crown of Fire
    Drain Charged Item + Craft Wand (sortof)/Craft Rod
    Increased Storage + Shape Soulmeld (Vitality Belt)
    Improved Healing + craft wand? Ehh, it beats out WoLV, so sure. Also + Ragnorraís strong sign, presumably.
    Weapon Focus (Spellfire) + Dwarven Defender
    Rapid Blast + ???
    Drain Permanent Item + Craft Rod
    Flight + ???
    Deflect Arrows + Devoted Defender
    Maelstrom of Fire + Order Forged From Chaos
    So you utilized most of the SI abilities and some requirements to some extent (+1)
    And you took all levels of the SI (+0.5)
    Total: 12

    Spoiler: Shmebulok
    Show
    Originality: 5
    Automatic energy generation from Feather Fall? Take your (+1) =P
    Incarnate/Dragon Shaman was also unexpected (+1)

    Power: 4
    Targetting yourself with feather fall? :raiseeyebrows: Not sure all DMs would allow it, but by RAW it works, so well done - you have automatic energy generation.
    Statistically, you canít hold 4x Con for more than 20 minutes. On the other hand, thatís longer than the average combat. Same with 5x Con for 20 rounds.
    Maelstrom of Fire doesnít work that way (because you can only release your Con in energy levels per use), but is still a nova.
    Altogether seems fine at ranged DPS at low levels with the 2d6 acid, and slightly less so at high levels when energy blasts are weak against fire resistant/immune creatures (+0.5)
    Self-generating energy is great, at least allowing you to be a source of Fast Healing out of combat and providing you with energy pre-combat. It just doesnít do much during combat, should it happen to go long (+0.5)

    Elegance: 3.75
    Class progression is fairly natural (+0.5)
    Requires multiclassing penalties to be ignored (-0.25)
    Backstory accounts for all base class/PrC choices, but feels a bit disjointed. He learned Incarnum for 7 levels, then switched to Dragon Shamaning because people made fun of him? Then continued that for 3 levels before he left town for the same reason? (+0.5)

    UoSI: 4
    Combos:
    Knowledge + Draconic Aura
    Spellfire + Feather Fall
    Drain Charged Item/Drain Permanent Item + Dragon Tail
    Increased Storage/Improved Healing/Maelstrom of Fire + Vitality Belt + High Con
    Weapon Focus (Spellfire)/Rapid Blast + Draconic Aura
    Flight + Feather Fall/Spellfire combo
    Deflect Arrows + ???
    Crown of Fire + ???
    So you use most of the abilities very well (+0.5)
    You took all levels of the SI (+0.5)
    And you used some requirements after taking them while ignoring others (+/-0)
    Total: 16.75

    Spoiler: Red Stag
    Show
    Originality: 3
    A full-casting class of some type was expected, but psionic not so much. Neither was DFA, though itís only a 1-level dip. (+/-0)
    Linked Synchronicity and the other psionic stuff you use are known tricks, but readying actions to draw off Spellfire seems new (+/-0)

    Power: 4
    Ok, you have automatic spellfire energy generation starting at level 1, good job. And you have the tools to deal damage/heal decently at low levels.
    1-5 ranks in Bluff with +3 Cha donít really help with social interaction, and intimidate lags behind your level, but Iíll grant it works sometimes.
    Psychofeedback lasts rounds/level, so you canít really hold 5x Con for more than 20 rounds. On the other hand, thatís longer than the average combat.
    You donít get super-good fort and reflex saves without undue reliance on items, but your will save is rockiní.
    Psychofeedback is great, but the effects are worse than Barbarianís rage, leaving you unable to do it more than 1/day if you nova it. Plus having 1 Str for a few days might have other implications. The fact that you canít heal or negate it means itís not very consistent, even if it is great. So your powers are inconsistent (+/-0), but at least you can prevent a good deal of damage with your psionic tricks, and you still get several actions per round, so Iíll grant youíre a support (+1).

    Elegance: 2.25
    Requires multiclassing penalties to be ignored. (-0.25)
    Used a flaw (-1)
    The fluff of Anarchic Initiateís Chaotic Breach fits right into your backstory. (+0.5)
    Build is rather unpalatable to a new player in terms of level composition, but isnít the worst Iíve seen. (+/-0)

    UoSI: 4.5
    Combos:
    Spellfire recharge with Linked Synchronicity + Schism seems great, recharging you even while youíre in battle (slowly, but better than nothing).
    Drain Charged Item + ???
    Increased Storage/Improved Healing/Weapon Focus (Spellfire)/Rapid Blast/Maelstrom of Fire + Psychofeedback + high Con
    Drain Permanent Item + ???
    Flight + lack of Wilder powers known, sure, it looks like synergy to me. Just donít forget to recharge ⅓ minutes or so.
    Deflect Arrows + Good Karma
    Crown of Fire + spellfire recharging (sortof). The DR really doesnít do much at level 20, so I canít count that.
    You ditched spellcraft and k: arcana, but used the Endurance feat well. And you used most of the SIís abilities, even if the legwork comes from your Wilder powers (+0.5)
    Took levels when first able (+0.5)
    Utilized all the requirements of the SI (+0.5)
    Dropping the SIís capstone in favor of another classís ability does not endear yourself to a good UoSI score, but as itís just 1 level, itís not much of a deduction either. (+/-0)
    Total: 13.75

    Spoiler: Vander Dirklap
    Show
    Originality: 5
    Soulknife 13? Drain Permanent Item with a Soulknife? Take those points (+2)
    The concept made me laugh out loud.

    Power: 2.5
    Seems fine at low levels - youíre clearly a scout, with some damage ability, though it relies on others.
    At high levels you plan to snipe with a soulknife, but donít really have the hide check to pull off the -20 penalty against anyone with ranks in Spot. On top of that, the soulknife is only doing 4d6-6d6 damage per round at most, only slightly relevant. A few points of ability damage per round donít really change that. At least itís a touch attack. (-0.5)
    Your soulknife is consistent-ish, as using all the abilities you have requires more actions than there are in a round, but the spellfire is consistent since you can eat your mind blades. (+/-0)

    Elegance: 5
    Up through level 10 youíre fairly reliant on items to charge soulfire, though after that youíre set (-0.5).
    Class progression is particularly natural (+1)
    Does not require multiclassing penalties to be ignored (+0.5)
    Build seems like it would appear natural, not abominably min-maxed, to a fairly new player. (+1)
    On a side note, the lack of backstory made me sad.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    Combos:
    Drain Charged Item + ??? (items only)
    Increased Storage + ??? (concentration only)
    Improved Healing + ??? (gear only)
    Weapon Focus (Spellfire) + ??? (used alone)
    Rapid Blast + ??? (used alone, and only 2/3)
    Drain Permanent Item + soulknife
    Flight + the above combo
    Deflect Arrows + ??? (used alone)
    Crown of Fire + -
    Maelstrom of Fire + -
    So you used most of the abilities as listed, but didnít really build on them or make them shine (+/-0)
    Took SI levels when first able (+0.5)
    You use Spellfire Weilder and concentration, but sortof ignored the other prerequisites of the SI after taking them (+/-0)
    Total: 16

    Spoiler: Kakarotto
    Show
    Originality: 2.5
    Legacy champion? Boo (-0.5). That class is used to replace every bad class with one that has a better chassis.
    I donít see any other interactions worth mentioning (+/-0)

    Power: 2.25
    I donít see you being able to fill a party role, even with the d8 and ĺ BAB from Legacy Champion. You lag behind a Wizard in BAB, so itís hard to imagine how you can hit anything at early levels. The high Dex helps a lot later, especially when you use spellfire blasts, but you canít charge those without items, and you have only mediocre Con to boot, making them inconsistent (-1) Unfortunately, at the levels when you get good at spellfire energy blasts, spellfire energy blasting gets bad because it starts to lag behind a straight psionís 1d6/level several times/day damage. (+/-0)
    Your melee damage and to-hit arenít terrible, but you only have 1 attack for most of your career, so your damage per round is quite low. At least your saves and HD are good (+0.25)

    Elegance: 2.25
    It's difficult to figure out what it does (-0.5)
    Choppy power growth, so that the build is unacceptably weak for many levels (-1)
    Mainly reliant on items for spellfire (-0.5)
    I noticed you have levels in Legacy Champion but never record the Least/Lesser/Greater Legacy feat anywhere. Theyíre given for free with the rituals, but you donít list those anywhere and I think you should at least acknowledge them in your build (-0.25)
    Does not require multiclassing penalties to be ignored. (+0.5)
    Backstory accounts for all base class/PrC choices (+1)

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.25
    You pretty much state that you arenít using spellfire energy blasts (except in Kamehameha moments, which are rare), and donít really reference the other abilities (-0.5)
    Nor did you utilize the requirements of the SI, save to get Steadfast determination. (-0.25)
    Total: 9.25

    On a side note, I should really just expect Incarnate to show up at this point. Almost every competition I've seen, someone has used Incarnate as a base for the SI, perhaps in part because it's so unexpected.
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2015-09-26 at 04:30 AM.

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