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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Question Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Hello, folks. I've got a new scheme I'm tooling around, and I could use some feedback.

    First, a bit of background. In 1994, an animated movie came out, titled Fatal Fury: The Motion Picture, based on the Fatal Fury fighting game franchise. One of the plot devices was the Armor of Mars, a legendary suit of armor broken into pieces which embedded themselves in the wearer granting great power. The trope hardly originated in this movie, but it was reasonably well-executed.

    So, now the concept. I'm working on creating a series of Warforged embedded components designed in the same vein. They're going to be sort of artifact-level but not necessarily artifact-power (at least, not unless the wearer has all of them). Sort of a "regalia" style setup, each piece granting certain bonuses, which increase when other pieces are worn.

    Point is, I could use some input on the idea. I want the end result to be powerful, but not too powerful.

    Here's what I have so far:
    • Gauntlets: You may add your slam damage to your unarmed strike damage. These gauntlets may be enhanced as any weapon, and you may use the better of their enhancement bonus or your wielded weapon's, if any, when attacking. You further increase your melee damage by +1 for every 5 character levels you possess (to a maximum of +4 at level 20) for every piece of this regalia you wear, including this one. (So, for example, if you had two pieces, you would add +8 damage at level 20). You gain the following additional benefits when more pieces of the regalia are worn:
      • If you wear at least one other piece, you may, as a standard action, perform a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet at your highest BAB, dealing your unarmed strike damage.
      • For every additional piece you wear, you may make an additional ranged touch attack, up to the maximum allowed by your BAB.
    • Legplates: You gain a +10 foot bonus to your movement speed for every piece of the regalia you wear, including this one. You gain a +1 bonus to Jump checks for every 5 character levels you possess (to a maximum of +4 at level 20) for every piece of this regalia you wear, including this one. (So, for example, if you had two pieces, you would add +8 to Jump checks at level 20). These bonuses stack with other bonuses. You gain the following additional benefits when more pieces of the regalia are worn:
      • If you wear at least one other piece, you can glide. This means that, unless you are helpless, you take no damage from falling, and may travel forward 20 feet for every 5 feet of descent. You glide with a 30 foot movement speed and average maneuverability.
      • If you wear at least two other pieces, and have at least 5 character levels, you may fly with average maneuverability and a speed equal to your base land speed.
      • If you wear at least three other pieces, your flight maneuverability increases to good.
      • If you wear four other pieces, your flight maneuverability increases to perfect.
    • Armor: You gain a +1 bonus to AC. You gain an additional +1 to AC, and DR 1/--, for every 5 character levels you possess (to a maximum of +4 and DR 4/-- at level 20). These bonuses stack with all other sources of AC and DR, even of the same type. You gain the following additional benefits when more pieces of the regalia are worn:
      • If you wear at least one other piece, treat this bonus as a dodge bonus.
      • If you wear at least two other pieces, treat this bonus as a deflection bonus (which stacks with other deflection bonuses).
    • Helmet: You gain low-light vision. You gain the following additional benefits when more pieces of the regalia are worn:
      • If you wear at least one other piece, you gain Darkvision to 30 feet.
      • If you wear at least two other pieces, you may automatically attempt to disbelieve any illusion within 30 feet. Alternatively, you may roll a second save against any instantaneous illusion effect used against you. Your Darkvision increases to 60 feet.
      • If you wear at least three other pieces, you gain Blindsight to 30 feet, and your Darkvision increases to 90 feet.
      • If you wear four other pieces, you gain Mindsight, as per the feat, to 30 feet, your Blindsight increases to 60 feet, and your Darkvision increases to 120 feet.
      • If you already have any of these abilities from other sources, these increases stack.
    • Cape and Spaulders: Add your single highest ability score modifier as a bonus to all saves. This stacks with any other bonus to saves. You gain the following additional benefits when more pieces of the regalia are worn:
      • If you wear at least one additional piece, you and all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 morale bonus to all saves for each piece worn.
      • If you wear at least two additional pieces, you and all allies within 30 feet gain +1 to attack rolls, damage rolls, and AC for each piece worn.
      • If you wear at least three additional pieces, you gain a 10% miss chance for each piece worn, to a maximum of 40%.
      • If you wear four other pieces, you gain Heavy Fortification, and are immune to precision damage and critical hits.

    So, thoughts? Suggestions? Generic expressions of disappointment or "It's been done, chief?"
    Last edited by Red Fel; 2015-09-08 at 06:39 PM.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    this is an interesting set-up, and you're right, it's hard to think of thematic bonuses to tie to leg-plates that aren't already covered by either Boots or Armor.

    My first thought is to just just go with a different piece of equipment, such as an armored Choker or Insignia Broach.

    A choker could grant bonuses to diplomacy and/or intimidate, an immunity to magical Silence effects, and possibly immunity to Vorpal effects if enough pieces are worn.

    A Broach could also grant bonuses to diplomacy, but the scaling effects would be themed more after command effects, perhaps an Inspire Courage type of ability. A possible capstone could be of "as a full-round action you can direct a single willing ally to perform a single move or standard action, this action is performed immediately on your turn and does not count against that ally's normal actions for the round."

    :EDIT: now that I think about it, a choker that rendered you immune to vorpal effects and let you detach/reattach your head freely would be a pretty interesting magical item. I'll have to get back to that one.
    Last edited by SkipSandwich; 2015-09-05 at 03:40 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipSandwich View Post
    this is an interesting set-up, and you're right, it's hard to think of thematic bonuses to tie to leg-plates that aren't already covered by either Boots or Armor.

    My first thought is to just just go with a different piece of equipment, such as an armored Choker or Insignia Broach.

    A choker could grant bonuses to diplomacy and/or intimidate, an immunity to magical Silence effects, and possibly immunity to Vorpal effects if enough pieces are worn.

    A Broach could also grant bonuses to diplomacy, but the scaling effects would be themed more after command effects, perhaps an Inspire Courage type of ability. A possible capstone could be of "as a full-round action you can direct a single willing ally to perform a single move or standard action, this action is performed immediately on your turn and does not count against that ally's normal actions for the round."

    :EDIT: now that I think about it, a choker that rendered you immune to vorpal effects and let you detach/reattach your head freely would be a pretty interesting magical item. I'll have to get back to that one.
    Yeah, I've been giving it some thought, and I think that leg armor is probably a better option than boots. (Also, flying legplates just create a humorous image in my brain.) So I could swap that out easily enough.

    As to what I can use as a replacement, though, I've been going over body slots again. Rings are no good, nor is the face slot (since helmet is taken, that feels redundant). Armguards feel redundant with gauntlets just like legplates did with boots.

    As you mentioned, the throat slot is one option, but while that decapitation trick sounds amusing, I'll probably pass on it. Belt and shoulders are also good options, although an embedded belt feels kind of silly. It feels even sillier if you picture it more like an embedded relic codpiece, and we are not exploring too many possibilities there.

    I think a good option here is something "core", involving resistances. Perhaps if I went for a cloak, for example, it could offer miss chance. Maybe if I went for a brooch, it could double as a holy symbol (for those who use TU).

    I'm trying to look at the essentials, and the ability to scale bonuses. I've got movement speed and flight, unarmed combat (plus ranged), AC and DR, and useful vision upgrades, now I just need to shore up other weaknesses like saves and certain status ailments.

    Speaking of vision upgrades, I'm starting to wonder if my choices there were a bit redundant. I mean, low-light vision, good. Darkvision, good. Mindsight is always fun. But Blindsense and Blindsight? Is that a bit too much overlap? Would I be better off giving something like Scent, or a limited True Seeing or something? Or is that too artifact?
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    If you don't like true seeing, you could always use the whole "the first time you see an illusion, you may make a save to disbelieve as though you had interacted with it." That's a little more in line with a super-low-tier artifact.

    The thought of an embedded sidearm that's perfectly hidden comes to mind. You're always proficient with it, but it's got no enhancement bonus, so it'll never be your first choice. Does boosted damage against poorly-armored foes. Perfect for both self-defense and assassination. Would be located in an inconspicuous place, normally either the thigh, behind the hip, or above a shoulder blade.

    Also, typo. Legplates refers to a damage bonus when context dictates that it refers to a Jump bonus.

    On the whole, actually glad to see someone monkeying around with Warforged Components. I think they're cool, and your cloak idea actually sounds more interesting than the stuff you already have. Capes are normally meant to be impressive, so maybe you could merge some of those necklace ideas in, like the bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate, or the anti-silence? Cloaks are floaty and free-flowing as well, so maybe it gives bonuses to Escape Artist checks? Regardless, it should probably grant scaling resistance bonuses as well, so as to not appear like it's competing with the Cloak of Resistance. (Would you be able to wear a normal cloak over a component cloak?) Even if you aim low and only do a couple of the fluffy bits, it'll still be really cool.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooPaladin View Post
    If you don't like true seeing, you could always use the whole "the first time you see an illusion, you may make a save to disbelieve as though you had interacted with it." That's a little more in line with a super-low-tier artifact.
    Hmm... Possibly. I could still add more, there, perhaps.

    The thought of an embedded sidearm that's perfectly hidden comes to mind. You're always proficient with it, but it's got no enhancement bonus, so it'll never be your first choice. Does boosted damage against poorly-armored foes. Perfect for both self-defense and assassination. Would be located in an inconspicuous place, normally either the thigh, behind the hip, or above a shoulder blade.
    Tempting, but I've already got one weapon-based component. I'm a bit reluctant to turn this gear into an entire armory.

    Also, typo. Legplates refers to a damage bonus when context dictates that it refers to a Jump bonus.
    Fixed, thanks for the catch!

    On the whole, actually glad to see someone monkeying around with Warforged Components. I think they're cool, and your cloak idea actually sounds more interesting than the stuff you already have. Capes are normally meant to be impressive, so maybe you could merge some of those necklace ideas in, like the bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate, or the anti-silence? Cloaks are floaty and free-flowing as well, so maybe it gives bonuses to Escape Artist checks? Regardless, it should probably grant scaling resistance bonuses as well, so as to not appear like it's competing with the Cloak of Resistance. (Would you be able to wear a normal cloak over a component cloak?) Even if you aim low and only do a couple of the fluffy bits, it'll still be really cool.
    I decided to go with this, sort of. I made it a cape and spaulders, because you can't embed a piece of cloth, but you can embed the shoulder-bits, and capes are super classy. I went with a sort of a morale-boosting idea, adding a version of Divine Grace (but with whichever ability modifier is higher, because not everyone relies on Charisma). I then threw on shareable morale bonuses to saves, attack, damage and AC, because this dude is a walking banner. I added miss chance, because it's awesome, and fortification, because few things are more inspiring than watching your glorious leader shrug off an injury that should have been lethal.

    Pretty sure the Cloak and Spaulders might actually be the most powerful item on the list, come to think of it.

    I'm not averse to the idea of adding more items to the set, but at this point it kind of looks like a complete suit of armor. Breastplate, spaulders and cape, helmet, gauntlets, legplates. Anything else would be almost ornamental.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Hmm... Possibly. I could still add more, there, perhaps.
    Was referring to your open ponder about what to do with the overlap between blindsense and blindsight. Looked it up, the difference between them is that the former lets you skip the Spot/Listen check to notice creatures within range, while the latter does that and lets you ignore the assorted penalties for interacting with invisible things or while blinded. So really, it goes from a blurry radar to a very precise bat-vision.

    The current progression is okay, if a bit complicated. Thus I was wondering how the following sounds: remove blindsense, move everything past it down one stage, and stick the ability to disprove illusions with a glance up at the top. It doesn't sound as clever as when I thought of it, but it was meant as a potential solution to the overlap thing.

    And as for the cape and spaulders... YES! I like it, way to go. Just a few rules kludges, like making sure the bonus to saves is a resistance bonus. Not that I care about saving throw bonus stacking, but because one should not be tempted to sully the grandeur of the cape with the adornment of another, lesser example of cape-dom. And... does Heavy Fortification actually stack with immunity to precision damage and critical hits? Isn't fortification a % chance to negate precision damage and critical hits?

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooPaladin View Post
    Was referring to your open ponder about what to do with the overlap between blindsense and blindsight. Looked it up, the difference between them is that the former lets you skip the Spot/Listen check to notice creatures within range, while the latter does that and lets you ignore the assorted penalties for interacting with invisible things or while blinded. So really, it goes from a blurry radar to a very precise bat-vision.

    The current progression is okay, if a bit complicated. Thus I was wondering how the following sounds: remove blindsense, move everything past it down one stage, and stick the ability to disprove illusions with a glance up at the top. It doesn't sound as clever as when I thought of it, but it was meant as a potential solution to the overlap thing.
    Hmm... See, the problem with the illusion thing is that it overlaps with the spaulder bonus to saves... Then again, the spaulder/cape sort of overlaps with everything (AC, attack rolls, etc.) so that's not necessarily a bad thing...

    So you're saying that the base ability should be a chance to disbelieve illusions automatically upon seeing them, remove Blindsense, and move everything else down from there? Or sneak the disbelief bit in where Blindsense was?

    And as for the cape and spaulders... YES! I like it, way to go. Just a few rules kludges, like making sure the bonus to saves is a resistance bonus. Not that I care about saving throw bonus stacking, but because one should not be tempted to sully the grandeur of the cape with the adornment of another, lesser example of cape-dom. And... does Heavy Fortification actually stack with immunity to precision damage and critical hits? Isn't fortification a % chance to negate precision damage and critical hits?
    Why specifically a resistance bonus? I was just going for an untyped-but-explicitly-stacking bonus.

    Also, Heavy Fortification is an armor enhancement that grants a 100% chance to negate precision damage and crits. It's not that it stacks with immunity, it is immunity. I just felt the need to clarify that point.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Hmm... See, the problem with the illusion thing is that it overlaps with the spaulder bonus to saves... Then again, the spaulder/cape sort of overlaps with everything (AC, attack rolls, etc.) so that's not necessarily a bad thing...
    I suppose it does. That's fair. The conceptual overlap of blindsight and blindsense appears to be less and less of an issue every time I look at it, so it is a moot concern. My suggestion was actually not anything like that, but as long as blindsight and blindsense have separate operative ranges, it should work out fine.

    And the resistance thing was a matter of... actually, I think it was a balance concern. A misplaced one, as I've recently discovered that one of the great secrets of D&D design theory is how incredibly easy it is to boost saving throws. If the table permits artifact regalia to be used freely, then potential statistical overkill is basically just solid flavor at that point.

    I have one more question. I got this from a weird source, but can warforged components be made concealable for double the price? You might want to say that these can't be embedded into you like that, whether because their attachment method is unconventional, or because they're just big and bulky or something. Unless I'm wrong and that isn't how that works at all?

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooPaladin View Post
    I suppose it does. That's fair. The conceptual overlap of blindsight and blindsense appears to be less and less of an issue every time I look at it, so it is a moot concern. My suggestion was actually not anything like that, but as long as blindsight and blindsense have separate operative ranges, it should work out fine.
    Yeah, I was focusing on the operative ranges as well. I figured it would make sense, within a certain radius that general sense becomes pinpoint accuracy. Still, between Blindsense, Blindsight, and Mindsight, there's more than a bit of overlap, and the chance to auto-disbelieve has some merit.

    And the resistance thing was a matter of... actually, I think it was a balance concern. A misplaced one, as I've recently discovered that one of the great secrets of D&D design theory is how incredibly easy it is to boost saving throws. If the table permits artifact regalia to be used freely, then potential statistical overkill is basically just solid flavor at that point.
    Yeah. I'm basically trying to design this so that the user can function in more or less any circumstance. Visibility to pierce concealment or hiding, attacks so he's never disarmed, flight because flight, miss chance because miss chance, and saves because a bad save ruins your day.

    Speaking of, a thought on the gauntlets: When I came into this, I saw an unarmed combatant. Should I instead allow the gauntlets to convey a bonus to weapons, and then explicitly include unarmed strikes?

    I have one more question. I got this from a weird source, but can warforged components be made concealable for double the price? You might want to say that these can't be embedded into you like that, whether because their attachment method is unconventional, or because they're just big and bulky or something. Unless I'm wrong and that isn't how that works at all?
    I don't recall reading that. I remember that certain components can be attached, certain others can be embedded, and certain embedded components are explicitly retractable. Not that it matters - I want these to be visible and awesome. I suppose I could put in someplace that they aren't retractable, that works, but I have no problem with a PC throwing a big bulky cloak over the lot. Makes for great dramatic reveals, you know.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    Yeah. I'm basically trying to design this so that the user can function in more or less any circumstance. Visibility to pierce concealment or hiding, attacks so he's never disarmed, flight because flight, miss chance because miss chance, and saves because a bad save ruins your day.
    Okay, now I've got it! In order:

    Between blindsight and mindsight, illusions within fighting distance are pretty obviously "not really there", and so the wearer could make a case for getting a save to disbelieve immediately. So a thing that lets you auto-succeed on those saves would be more of a quality of life thing, which I'm all for. Maybe you get to auto-disbelieve any illusions within Mindsight range - the triple-thick non-visual sensor just dismisses that trickery outright.

    The gauntlet thing is a solid idea. Since they're enchanted as one weapon, having them give their bonus to all weapon attacks too seems quite reasonable. Might give the fighters a reason to use their universal weapon proficiency for once!

    And the clause about being concealable, but not retractable: that's exactly what I was imagining. I like that, it's a good idea.

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    Default Re: Warforged Components: Armor of Mars (WIP, PEACH)

    Okay. I was bothered by having Blindsense and Blindsight, so I snuck the disbelief bit in between Darkvision and Blindsight. The radii of other abilities increase, but the disbelief one does not.

    I also made some changes, such as allowing the gauntlet enhancement or that of a wielded weapon be used, whichever is better. (I may need to modify the language if it's unclear.) Perhaps I should also allow the wielder to treat any weapon wielded as possessing the Aptitude enhancement, or alternatively to use the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude ability.

    I also reorganized it so that it's clear what each piece's base abilities are, and how they increase based on additional regalia.
    My headache medicine has a little "Ex" inscribed on the pill. It's not a brand name; it's an indicator that it works inside an Anti-Magic Field.

    Blue text means sarcasm. Purple text means evil. White text is invisible.

    My signature got too big for its britches. So now it's over here!

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