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  1. - Top - End - #1231
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    can't say i agree with you there. it was always a mystery what exactly happened on that island, looks like we might start to get some answers about it now.

    i for one am looking forward to where this is going.
    It just feels so contrived. The person Odie has been searching for just happens to turn up and has been Ardon's slave this whole time? What are the odds of that? Quintillions to one? I get that stories play with the odds like that, but this really stretches my suspension of disbelief past the breaking point.

    It would be one thing if Ardon had sought Odie out, but we already know they met basically by accident.

  2. - Top - End - #1232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It just feels so contrived. The person Odie has been searching for just happens to turn up and has been Ardon's slave this whole time? What are the odds of that? Quintillions to one? I get that stories play with the odds like that, but this really stretches my suspension of disbelief past the breaking point.

    It would be one thing if Ardon had sought Odie out, but we already know they met basically by accident.
    Being a slave to Ardon's family in particular is a coincidence, but I thought that they might have been taken by the Feywild given 1) Odie's island had a secret Feygate on it 2) We already know that they take mortals as slaves 3) The Feywild civilization seems to be permanently setup as the big bads of the entire series from here on out.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2020-01-02 at 05:00 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #1233
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    Draconi Redfir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    4. the denizens of the island were already gone by the time the Nightmare spirit showed up. Something happened to them that we never saw, and either they all took a boat (That we've never seen, or has been suggested that they have, or has visited the island), been raptured (No evidence to suggest any sort of thing happens in this world) or they took the Feygate (Which we know for a fact is both on the island, and operational.) either willingly or unwillingly.


    is it a coincidence that she's Ardon's slave? Sure. A coincidence that she's in the Fewild? not quite.
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  4. - Top - End - #1234
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I was clearly talking about the fact that she's Ardon's slave.

  5. - Top - End - #1235
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Very interesting that if Odie was never banished from his village and island then he still would have met Ardon anyway as his slave instead.

  6. - Top - End - #1236
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Interesting that Kina's willing to attack Ardon as soon as she knows she can do so without repurcussions from Lord and Lady Owl/Bear. In other words, she's not concerned about high-level adventurer Ardon fighting back. Given that she doesn't know that it's really Odivalus in there, that means that either:
    a) she doesn't know Ardon's a high-level adventurer (odd, considering his high-profile escape),
    b) she is herself a high-level adventurer (which raises numerous further questions) or
    c) she thinks Ardon wouldn't attack a slave for some reason.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  7. - Top - End - #1237
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    she probably just doesn't give a flip anymore. If "Ardon" attacks her and she lives, then great! She can report it to the lord and lady and get him into even more trouble. Sure she'll be in pain, but it'd be worth it.

    If "Ardon" attacks and kills her, then great! No more life of servitude to pompous elderan.
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  8. - Top - End - #1238
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    she probably just doesn't give a flip anymore. If "Ardon" attacks her and she lives, then great! She can report it to the lord and lady and get him into even more trouble. Sure she'll be in pain, but it'd be worth it.

    If "Ardon" attacks and kills her, then great! No more life of servitude to pompous elderan.
    This doesn't seem like a society that punishes the mistreatment of slaves. Remember Torrin and the innkeepers? As to being okay with dying, that raises questions as to why she waited until his parents stopped caring before attacking. Heck, if death is preferable she seems to have enough autonomy to be able to slit her throat before anyone can stop her.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  9. - Top - End - #1239
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    i think it's less "A society that punishes the mistreatment of slaves" and more "Ardon's parents have zero tolerance for right now, and any excuse to punish him further would be taken"

    Maybe she doesn't believe it's okay to off herself? Or maybe the servant-life was okay while Ardon was gone. Perhaps she just wants someone to have to get their hands dirty / get in trouble if they kill her or something, idk. there's a lot of possibilities out there.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2020-01-02 at 07:16 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #1240
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    If Ardon were to get in trouble for injuring or killing a human slave I imagine Odie is in huge trouble for wrecking a t.v., and a door, and injuring an Eladrin servant.

  11. - Top - End - #1241
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    That's kinda the way I see it, it's not the slave's LIFE that Ardon would get in trouble for, it's the destruction of property, since that's what a slave is, after all. Property. And property can be pricey or difficult to replace.
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  12. - Top - End - #1242
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    Interesting that Kina's willing to attack Ardon as soon as she knows she can do so without repurcussions from Lord and Lady Owl/Bear. In other words, she's not concerned about high-level adventurer Ardon fighting back. Given that she doesn't know that it's really Odivalus in there, that means that either:
    a) she doesn't know Ardon's a high-level adventurer (odd, considering his high-profile escape),
    b) she is herself a high-level adventurer (which raises numerous further questions) or
    c) she thinks Ardon wouldn't attack a slave for some reason.
    1. Ardon was level one at the beginning of the story after he had escaped. When Kina knew him, he was not high level.

    2. Kina has no way of knowing what Ardon's been doing these past weeks, so she has no idea that he's an adventurer who's been leveling up.

    3. Ardon is not, in fact, high level, anyways. He, and the party, are, at best, mid level.
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  13. - Top - End - #1243
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    For a bit there I was trying to remember if they explained how Ardon knew about the Feygate on Odie's island. I was thinking that if Ardon refused to explain it could be because it was one his family had personal access to.

    However, after thinking about it for a bit, I think it was because the Dryad showed up and she had to have gotten there somehow.

    I can't remember how they actually found the Feygate though.

    With that said I am pretty sure it is implied that the reason Ardon wanted to form a party with Odie (when he was against the idea of adventuring with anyone else) was because of his physical attraction to Odie. Perhaps Ardon just has a thing for the indigenous people of Odie's island?
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2020-01-06 at 02:40 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #1244
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by SZbNAhL View Post
    This doesn't seem like a society that punishes the mistreatment of slaves. Remember Torrin and the innkeepers? As to being okay with dying, that raises questions as to why she waited until his parents stopped caring before attacking. Heck, if death is preferable she seems to have enough autonomy to be able to slit her throat before anyone can stop her.
    Killing yourself is hard. It's like killing in cold blood, but harder because you've got your survival instincts fighting against it.

    Doing something stupid that gets yourself killed while under the influence of anger? That's much easier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  15. - Top - End - #1245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    I can't remember how they actually found the Feygate though.
    I had no idea that was even a thing. I had to reread the entire comic, since I couldn't find it in the archives. So as a service, here you go: Ardon figuring out how Breynia had to have had a feygate was before this comic. The comic itselfs shows the widest-known shot of the feygate; the reasoning how Ardon knew it was one comes directly in the next strip.

    This also seems to indicate that Ardon had never been on the island before. Also, I couldn't see any hints towards Ardon knowing Odivallus was related in any way to the slave in his household.

    Ardon having killed Ell's aunt and causing her to become an orphan 22 years ago was a big coincidence. Ardon's parents having enabled the raid on Odi's tribe seems within the policy of the Feyworld. But then Odi and Ardon meeting by coincidence 3 years later in South Crossing, and also meeting Ell? That way lies either a plothole or a very cool explanation.

    (Theory 1) I could imagine that Kina's relation to Odi was the reason why Ardon ended up fleeing to SX, specifically. She possibly had an item or gave him a clue or whatever, that magically connected to Odi's position. So Ardon ended up to take the gate to SX and they met.

    (Theory 2) Odi searching for Kina was the reason they met: If Odi met a fortune teller who told him he would find the answer to his question after going to SX, then it becomes logical again. Ardon just went there because he had been there before, in spring break.

    Theory 1+2 can even be combined to rule out any coincidence at all.
    Last edited by Onyavar; 2020-01-07 at 09:03 AM. Reason: more links

  16. - Top - End - #1246
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    It could also be just a coincidence. That's not a plot hole, and stories are about the exceptional, anyways. There have been far bigger coincidences in the real world than people in a vaguely close geographical location encountering one another once in the past before establishing a relationship with one another.
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  17. - Top - End - #1247
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    to be fair, stories like this tend to shoehorn in coincidences on such a massive scale so that everyone is "connected" on a regular basis.

    The villain is secretly the protagonist's father

    the anti-hero is actually the person who assassinated the heroine's mother

    it was the elf's father who sired a dozen half-elves and stirred up a half-elf revolution.

    A group of kids are contacted by an alien species while they get sucked into a video game and are forced to play, only later finding out that the aliens also happened to play the video game, winding up creating the kids in the first place. The kids subsequently wind up creating a villain that has been hunting the aliens for months.

    All major events in the entire galaxy all solely revolve around a single family and nobody is allowed to just be from some random planet, they MUST have some kind of biological connection to someone important we already know, or the story "Wouldn't make sense" otherwise.


    That's just how stories work. "Everything is connected!" is for some reason, more believable then "A bunch of people of different origins and backgrounds meet up and solve a completely unrelated problem".
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2020-01-07 at 10:35 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #1248
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    It makes sense for Vader to be Luke's father because the force is hereditary and Luke is essentially raised as a weapon pointed against his father by the father's old mentor. It's not even a coincidence. We know they have a personal relationship from the beginning of the story. It's explicitly a plot point. The situations would only be similar if Ardon had went looking for Odie due to his relation to the slave.

    I agree that stories are about the exceptional, but that only applies to a certain point. At some point coincidence becomes so ridiculous and unlikely that it's feels like another form of Deus ex Machina where bad writers use it to resolve plot points they're struggling to resolve naturally. It makes sense for Kina to turn up in the story eventually even though it's unlikely. Odie is looking for her, and that's what the story is about. It doesn't make sense that she'd just happen to turn up as the personal slave of another protagonist. The odds of that are staggeringly unlikely. It's a whole order of magnitude worse than "no, I am your father." It's so far past the point of ridiculousness that it completely pulls me out of the story.

    Now, maybe this is all just premature criticism and the next plot point will explain how it actually makes sense that they have a relationship. Most of the story so far has been well written, so I don't think it's even unlikely that things will eventually make sense. It's just ridiculously bad writing though if it's left as a coincidence.

  19. - Top - End - #1249
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    So, Peanut is going to tell them about slavery?

    Since he started campaigning as a slave and stayed that way til chapter 10, he will be able to provide an interesting viewpoint.

    Not sure how convincing he will be and how well it translates to Feyworld slaves.

  20. - Top - End - #1250
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    It could also be just a coincidence. That's not a plot hole, and stories are about the exceptional, anyways. There have been far bigger coincidences in the real world than people in a vaguely close geographical location encountering one another once in the past before establishing a relationship with one another.
    I don't think it is a coincidence,maybe it is a conspiracy.

  21. - Top - End - #1251
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    I'm not sure I get Peanut's point. Because Odie made mistakes with caring for him he's not allowed to care about his tribe anymore? It doesn't seem to flow logically. Maybe I'm missing something.

  22. - Top - End - #1252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I'm not sure I get Peanut's point. Because Odie made mistakes with caring for him he's not allowed to care about his tribe anymore? It doesn't seem to flow logically. Maybe I'm missing something.
    Has Peanut made his point already? He is just getting started I think. As I said before, I'm not sure how convincing it might get. But his point will probably be that Kina is in less immediate danger than the team, since she has survived for three years in the Feyworld already.

    Ardon and Ell were fully justified in being angry, but when they can't overpower their captors, they should at least make plans.

    Sure, in the end Chandrea and sunglassed Archer are going to bust them out, but having a bad plan is better than moping around until the execution.

  23. - Top - End - #1253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    Has Peanut made his point already? He is just getting started I think. As I said before, I'm not sure how convincing it might get. But his point will probably be that Kina is in less immediate danger than the team, since she has survived for three years in the Feyworld already.

    Ardon and Ell were fully justified in being angry, but when they can't overpower their captors, they should at least make plans.

    Sure, in the end Chandrea and sunglassed Archer are going to bust them out, but having a bad plan is better than moping around until the execution.
    I am actually wondering how they are going to feel about Telese by the time they next see her. Because when she was part of the Eladrin nobility she most certainly benefited from the Fey oppression of the mortal world and most likely saw nothing wrong with it as well.

    Heck, I am still not sure she ever actually realized there is something wrong with it (only that there is something wrong with letting the house leaders do almost whatever they want, but the DTS agents established that she is not the only Eladrin that feels that way).
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2020-01-14 at 02:27 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #1254
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    So is this "she figured out who he is" or "she had a relationship with ardon because he really is into the family"?

    edit: should be tribe not family^^
    Last edited by Ibrinar; 2020-01-17 at 09:42 AM.

  25. - Top - End - #1255
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    So is this "she figured out who he is" or "she had a relationship with ardon because he really is into the family"?
    I'm putting all my imaginary money on the latter.
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  26. - Top - End - #1256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    So is this "she figured out who he is" or "she had a relationship with ardon because he really is into the family"?
    I really hope it's the former, but I'd bet on the latter if I had to place my money.

  27. - Top - End - #1257
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    feel like it's almost certainly a secret relationship thing. Might explain why Ardon slept with El that one time.
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  28. - Top - End - #1258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    So is this "she figured out who he is" or "she had a relationship with ardon because he really is into the tribe"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    I'm putting all my imaginary money on the latter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I'd bet on the latter if I had to place my money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    feel like it's almost certainly a secret relationship thing.
    And here I was worrying if I should raise that question. If Kina says "Oh Ardon" on the next page, Odie will be completely devastated, not to say angry. If she says "Oh Odie", I know at least five readers who are going to breathe lighter.

    ... shyte. Of course she thinks it's Ardon she's kissing. Even being the "wise woman", her chances to figure out it's Odie inside, are near nil.


    Edith wants to ask: What are the white pixels on Kina's sleeves? Flowers?
    Last edited by Onyavar; 2020-01-17 at 12:04 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #1259
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    This is the scene immeditely after Odie goes to sleep. I'd lay decent odds it's a dream sequence.
    NB: While I never mean to offend anybody, sometimes the unfortunate combination of Aspergersism and the inherent difficulty of reading a situation through uninflected text over the internet get in the way of that goal. Please feel free to point out any social faux pas, inappropriate joke timing, etc.

  30. - Top - End - #1260
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    very good point.
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